57 to 43.

[OK4Wire]

So, only 57% of the membership want to stay in CC and TB? (Assuming that those who didn't vote are either ambivalent about the outcome, or happy to swing both ways).

Or, to put it another way, only 27% of the pilot body (members and non-members) want CC and TB.

I don't envy the GC in their task, especially those newly elected.

[tiger321]

I'll bite.........so using your logic, only 20% of the pilot body want CC and TB to end!

Don't you just love numbers? They can be bent anyway you like them to be.

Agree with you re the GC's task though.

[OK4Wire]

Hmm. Didn't look at it that way, but now that I have, let me bend them again:

72% of the pilot body don't want CC (the 653 who voted for a stop, plus the 735 who didn't vote, plus the 946 non-members).


With nearly ¾ either against, or at best sitting on the fence, no wonder we are having a hard time making a difference.

[Air Profit]

OK4Wire, why don't you stop before you wear yourself out digging that hole a bit deeper? You have NO way of knowing what the 735 who didn't vote think. Therefore, like any democratic election, only those who voted are allowed to have their opinion counted. The "majority" believed in keeping CC and the TB. Speculating to suit your own bias is not part of the debate. They could have voted, they didn't. Therefore they have to live with the result of a properly conducted poll, just like you.

[Frogman1484]

I think you can safely say the 735 members are completely disconnected from the union that they don’t give a flying f..k about what the union does. No one will ever achieve 67% of the vote to be able to change direction...EVER! We will be in CC and have the TB for the rest of our careers. That is why almost 1/3 of the pilot body is not even in the union and I would guess a lot more are going to vote with their feet and leave.

[tiger321]

[QUOTE=Frogman1484;10594554 That is why almost 1/3 of the pilot body is not even in the union and I would guess a lot more are going to vote with their feet and leave.[/QUOTE]

For a bunch who like to think that they are intelligent - we do a pretty good job of disproving that. Leaving the union would be yet another example. We are all frustrated by something that is going on in this company. None of us have caused that, the company has.

As an aside, the motion would have failed under any democratic voting rules.

[Piet Lood]

Except maybe through an electoral vote mixed in with a bit of gerrymandering ;-)

[Frogman1484]

Tiger...I think the union is also to blame. TA16 got undermined by one individual in power who did not like it. TA18 got sent through to the vote due to a few individuals with self interest. The TB went on for too long as the GC could not decide its value, now it worth nothing, yet they still believe in its power. Contract compliance does nothing to the company, it only hurts us with all the reserve coverage we are providing for free. Yet we continue down the same path hoping it will eventually generate something magical. That is why people are leaving as they think that they have a better chance at the company to look after their needs than the union. when was the last time the union had a win...I cannot remember, maybe someone might be able to find something.

[Apple Tree Yard]

What the company seems to be willfully ignoring is the consequences to their intransigence. Each week, more pilots give their notice. Each week that this situation prevails, more pilots discuss with friends and family about giving their notice. CX has been so focused on "beating" the pilots, that they lost sight of the fact that unintended consequence was going to defeat them anyway. So keep on rostering untenable schedules, unaccountable reserve, minimal G days, unallocated leave and mounting fatigue. If that is this managements protocol to "win" the fight against their own employees, then good luck to them. I"m sure the ever dwindling number of pilots will continue to determine where the real "losers" are in this debate. Between floors 2 and 4 in case you didn't know.

[claraball]

And then the AOA voted that member who sabotaged TA16 (and all of our careers) back onto the GC. Look in the mirror gents when you want to see who is destroying our careers. The AOA is only good at eating it's own. Perhaps out of frustration that it can't hurt the company no matter how hard they have tried. At least they can hurt the pilots the GC disagree with or choose not to represent. It's so sad and pathetic to have watched this self inflicted destruction. The company just had to stay out of our own way and let the GC eat itself from within. And yet if you listen to them speak they all have the answers only the irrefutable evidence says otherwise. From suing each other to taking our money to pay their insider who got himself fired because he was friends with RF it's difficult to pity this lot.

[BusyB]

Having been continuously lied to and threatened by Cathay managers and DFO's from 1994 onwards ( I personally was directly threatened with dismissal 4 times between 1994 and 2010) I am totally bemused by anyone who believes anything that CX tells you concerning your career or COS.

Grow up and open your eyes and ears.

[FlexibleResponse]

Thread drift caution...

Some might consider that it's fast approaching time to leave CX and get one's provident fund payout (for anybody still entitled) before the company folds and ceases to be able to pay same?

[Flex88]

OK4Wire, why don't you stop before you wear yourself out digging that hole a bit deeper? You have NO way of knowing what the 735 who didn't vote think. Therefore, like any democratic election, only those who voted are allowed to have their opinion counted. The "majority" believed in keeping CC and the TB. Speculating to suit your own bias is not part of the debate. They could have voted, they didn't. Therefore they have to live with the result of a properly conducted poll, just like you.

AP, I think you can safely "surmise" that they are ambivalent self serving individuals many of whom are overt sycophants...

[Cpt. Underpants]

Thread drift caution...

Some might consider that it's fast approaching time to leave CX and get one's provident fund payout (for anybody still entitled) before the company folds and ceases to be able to pay same?

The P fund is neither held by, nor administered by Cathay

[Zapp_Brannigan]

None of us want to stay in CC and TB.

We just want a binding agreement on RPs and an adjustment in cost of living.
Simple.
Then we're back to normal ops.
It's not even required to address Cos18. The last 4 guys I met who joined less than 6 months ago are already thinking of leaving.
​​
​

[claraball]

Oh you mean TA16 (roughly). Well how did that go?

[Slasher1]

It's not even required to address Cos18. The last 4 guys I met who joined less than 6 months ago are already thinking of leaving.
​​
​

lol

Watch out — that boiling water is hot.

I can handle it — OUCH — that hurts

Told you so

[FlexibleResponse]

The P fund is neither held by, nor administered by Cathay

The original P Fund is. But, perhaps very few are still on that list?

[Pickuptruck]

I'll bite.........so using your logic, only 20% of the pilot body want CC and TB to end!

Don't you just love numbers? They can be bent anyway you like.
I would disagree, anyone who didn’t vote couldn’t give a rats ass and therefore isn’t in CC/TB. The whole notion that those who felt passionately about CC/TB didn’t vote is ridiculous. Have a look at how many turn up at delayed reporting times, more than half on my flights on average.

[Pickuptruck]

The P fund is neither held by, nor administered by Cathay

That wins the most deluded and naive post of the century...............

[stevieboy330]

78% of Pilots have stopped giving a Shi# about the union or the company.

[Apple Tree Yard]

I suspect the apathy is because a very large number of pilots have already decided they are leaving, and therefore nothing the company or union does at this point matters much. Why bother.

[Oasis]

That wins the most deluded and naive post of the century...............

can you tell me how that is naive?

[Pickuptruck]

can you tell me how that is naive?
You sound like you think there's a shoebox in a vault with your name written on it in marker pen, that contains your provident fund in cash. The truth is quite someway off that.

[Oasis]

But you agree that the money is separate from cpa?

[reazasassain]

I suspect much of the discontent with the union is how those on the GC represented them. It’s simple logic to realize that if the membership votes overwhelming against your recommended proposal you are out of touch with the membership and should have resigned. Instead those who recommend the crap offer doubled down dig their heels in and remained committed to destroying the union.

To top of the whole charde they even sued one of their own members for a post in a private forum. I don't understand how the toothless tiger, lame duck chairman has the gull to sign off his emails with "in unity"? YGTBFKM...

I would post this on the AOA forums but I suspect my account will be suspended as i have finally resigned.

Congratulations on destroying the AOA.

[MENELAUS]

The fact that the whole sum (ie EVERYONE'S PROVIDENT FUND SAVE THE OLD A SCALE ONE, and I think that's probably all of 2 pilots) is vested with HSBC is hardly a cause for celebration...not in the present climate, despite all their claims of liquidity. The local populace are both superstitions and twitchy right now...a run on a bank would not be beyond the bounds of credibility. In certain respects having it held by Cannon Trustees would be a better option.

[Bangaluru]

I suspect much of the discontent with the union is how those on the GC represented them. It’s simple logic to realize that if the membership votes overwhelming against your recommended proposal you are out of touch with the membership and should have resigned. Instead those who recommend the crap offer doubled down dig their heels in and remained committed to destroying the union.

To top of the whole charde they even sued one of their own members for a post in a private forum. I don't understand how the toothless tiger, lame duck chairman has the gull to sign off his emails with "in unity"? YGTBFKM...

I would post this on the AOA forums but I suspect my account will be suspended as i have finally resigned.

Congratulations on destroying the AOA.

Congratulations on resigning.