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View Full Version : F50 off the runway at HKNW


double_barrel
14th Oct 2019, 04:12
I have been wondering if someone would post about the Silverstone Fokker 50 that ended-up in the bushes at Nairobi's Wilson airport a couple of days ago.

https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20191011-0

The report above says it 'veered off the runway', but in fact it just went straight into the bush and fence directly off the end of rwy 14. Looks like a last-minute reject. And since everyone survived it's hard to criticize that decision. But just a tad more energy and they would have found themselves hitting a steep embankment and a major road. It was fully loaded on a wet runway. Cool early morning but still a density altitude >7,000'. Can these venerable beasts climb-out if they loose an engine after V1?

suninmyeyes
14th Oct 2019, 14:21
“Can these venerable beasts climb-out if they loose an engine after V1?”

If they are loaded properly for the conditions and the propellor is feathered then yes.

If the aircraft is written off because of a wrong decision then it is fair to criticise even if everyone survived.

We don’t know the circumstances yet. The crew may be blameless, then again.......

Doors to Automatic
14th Oct 2019, 17:48
“Can these venerable beasts climb-out if they loose an engine after V1?”

I hope so, given that it is a certification requirement.

The Ancient Geek
14th Oct 2019, 20:04
At 5100 feet the runway is plenty long enough for a V1 reject.
I suspect that they may have tried to reland after an engine fail at 50+ feet which would be pushing their luck.

parkfell
15th Oct 2019, 09:10
At 5100 feet the runway is plenty long enough for a V1 reject.
I suspect that they may have tried to reland after an engine fail at 50+ feet which would be pushing their luck.

Might that infer a lack of confidence in the aircraft to do what it says on the tin ?
In time, their training and abilities might be disclosed, which may or may not be part of the decision making process?

Many moons ago a HS748 got airborne from STN and around 50’ or so, an engine fire (indication) occurred. Decision: land ahead. Over run off the paved surface. All survived.
The elderly Captain knowing his machine concluded what this was the safest course of action. The AAIB report didn’t disagree with him. In fact they said it was a sensible decision given the (theoretical) threat of getting airborne with a fire which might continue to burn and jeopardise the wing itself.

hans brinker
15th Oct 2019, 16:21
Might that infer a lack of confidence in the aircraft to do what it says on the tin ?
In time, their training and abilities might be disclosed, which may or may not be part of the decision making process?

Many moons ago a HS748 got airborne from STN and around 50’ or so, an engine fire (indication) occurred. Decision: land ahead. Over run off the paved surface. All survived.
The elderly Captain knowing his machine concluded what this was the safest course of action. The AAIB report didn’t disagree with him. In fact they said it was a sensible decision given the (theoretical) threat of getting airborne with a fire which might continue to burn and jeopardise the wing itself.

Well, it does say land ASAP in the procedure. can't do it any quicker than that.

Maninthebar
16th Oct 2019, 08:05
Might that infer a lack of confidence in the aircraft to do what it says on the tin ?
In time, their training and abilities might be disclosed, which may or may not be part of the decision making process?

Many moons ago a HS748 got airborne from STN and around 50’ or so, an engine fire (indication) occurred. Decision: land ahead. Over run off the paved surface. All survived.
The elderly Captain knowing his machine concluded what this was the safest course of action. The AAIB report didn’t disagree with him. In fact they said it was a sensible decision given the (theoretical) threat of getting airborne with a fire which might continue to burn and jeopardise the wing itself.

"Many moons" = 1998
"Elderly" = 61

You know how to make a boy feel old

draglift
16th Oct 2019, 16:45
Calling the F50 “venerable” makes me feel old as I flew the F27 and regard the F50 as modern in comparison! These modern F50 pilots never had to deal with pneumatic brakes!

oceancrosser
16th Oct 2019, 16:49
Calling the F50 “venerable” makes me feel old as I flew the F27 and regard the F50 as modern in comparison! These modern F50 pilots never had to deal with pneumatic brakes!

Need a "like" button here! Flew both. The F50 was great in comparison to the F27 which was...:ugh:.

parkfell
17th Oct 2019, 09:01
"Many moons" = 1998
"Elderly" = 61

You know how to make a boy feel old

If memory serves, the Leeds United football team were on board?

I think it was a SUN newspaper reporter who turned up on the doorstep of the youthful Captain’s house, and his wife gave a few comments along the lines that as an “old hand” (youthful variant) he knew exactly what the machine was capable or not of doing, and a correct course of action took place.

Wonder if the crew departure briefing included this initial V2 phase?

double_barrel
17th Oct 2019, 09:47
I suspect that they may have tried to reland after an engine fail at 50+ feet which would be pushing their luck.

Looking at video of the scene, I suspect you are right, I can see no sign of marks in the soft ground between runway and aircraft and no sign of the accumulated debris I would expect if they slid 300m. It looks like a flop from a very low height (in ground effect?) with very limited subsequent slide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=Fwo28VNs2XI

Sukhraj
17th Oct 2019, 14:43
Looking at video of the scene, I suspect you are right, I can see no sign of marks in the soft ground between runway and aircraft and no sign of the accumulated debris I would expect if they slid 300m. It looks like a flop from a very low height (in ground effect?) with very limited subsequent slide.


There are tyre marks all the way from the end of the tarmac to the crash site.

double_barrel
17th Oct 2019, 15:04
There are tyre marks all the way from the end of the tarmac to the crash site.

Thanks

I stand corrected

Alpine Flyer
17th Oct 2019, 17:05
Need a "like" button here! Flew both. The F50 was great in comparison to the F27 which was...:ugh:.
+1 for the like button. While the flight deck was quite modern, some parts of the F50 design felt quite old compared to the Dash 8. Probably won't fly another bird with four opening windows on the flight deck again...

Had a look at the F27 training manual once and was astonished that the prop section was about three times the size of the engine section.

peterperfect
30th Oct 2019, 09:32
A Silverstone DHC-8 lost a wheel on take off at Lodwar on 28th Oct, landed at Moi. Any info out there on the cause of the F50 crash ?

cockyjester
30th Oct 2019, 09:41
and there is video and pics of another F50 tapping a Kingair at Wilson
https://www.kahawatungu.com/2019/10/27/silverstone-aircraft-collides-east-african-plane/