Jetstar Pulling out of regional NZ

[ozziekiwi]

Just heard on the midday TV1 news that Jetstar will be ending their regional NZ services wef 30 November. Another kick in the guts for the people living in these areas. Now the greedy national carrier will charge whatever they want and goodbye to specials and deals. Just like Mt Cook did in the 70's and 80's when they had the monopoly on Mt Cook and Queenstown. GRRRRRRR

[billyt]

Just heard on the midday TV1 news that Jetstar will be ending their regional NZ services wef 30 November. Another kick in the guts for the people living in these areas. Now the greedy national carrier will charge whatever they want and goodbye to specials and deals. Just like Mt Cook did in the 70's and 80's when they had the monopoly on Mt Cook and Queenstown. GRRRRRRR

Obviously the real cost of running these services is more than they were charging for them. Perhaps being greedier would have helped.

[KiwiAvi8er]

Sad news for the affected staff. I read they will be offered roles within the company but little consolation for the Napier guys.

[Lookleft]

It would be nice if Jetstar allow the pilots and CC to move across to the jet operation.

[Big_saint]

It would be nice if Jetstar allow the pilots and CC to move across to the jet operation.

So far I believe if JQ Regional does close the crew will be offered positions at, Qlink, Jetstar (both NZ and Aus), Jetconnect, and I think there may be an option of Express Freighters Australia.

[spektrum]

So far I believe if JQ Regional does close the crew will be offered positions at, Qlink, Jetstar (both NZ and Aus), Jetconnect, and I think there may be an option of Express Freighters Australia.

You mean they'll be offered the chance to do a plethora of aptitude and sim tests, attend a few interviews at their own cost only to be offered a spot on a hold file for 12 months? Thats how the Qantas group treats people my friend.

[wheels_down]

Are not some flight crew on secondment over there due to crewing issues?

Jetstar have the image in NZ that Tiger has here. Damage was done in the first couple of years and the ship has long sailed.

Your 6pm A321 Melbourne to Sydney is full of suits. Your 6pm Auckland to Christchurch is half fill leisure. The corps just won’t touch it over there

[aussie1234]

Flights always full but if you only charge $29 a seat you ain’t gonna make a dollar. Kiwi’s, like aussies, always prefer the national carrier but with Qantas and AIRNZ partnering up, was this part of the deal?

[Big_saint]

You mean they'll be offered the chance to do a plethora of aptitude and sim tests, attend a few interviews at their own cost only to be offered a spot on a hold file for 12 months? Thats how the Qantas group treats people my friend.

The Qantas group thinks about the almighty $, and if they reposition these pilots into roles inside the group efficiently they save $'s on redundancy. If this was a reposition to SH or LH then yes I can see a minimum of a 12 month wait, but it's not. The subsidiaries who would take these pilots are still actively recruiting so to absorb the roles of 5 airframes into 4 subsidiaries I can see it being done reasonably quickly.

[James 1077]

Flights always full but if you only charge $29 a seat you ain’t gonna make a dollar. Kiwi’s, like aussies, always prefer the national carrier but with Qantas and AIRNZ partnering up, was this part of the deal?

I don't think that it is a matter of preferring the national carrier. I don't rate Air NZ too highly but fly with them in preference to JetStar as the general rule of thumb is that if you need to get to your destination then fly Air NZ. If you don't need to be there then JetStar's fine.

Not sure if this is still the case but it was a few years ago and has stuck.

[pinkpanther1]

I wonder what will happen to the 5 airframes? Does Qlink need another 5 Dash 8s? or will they be sold off?

[waren9]

when the boss isn't making any money, you're really only on a paid job search. its a shame, but if they'd spread their focus to include maintaining a reliable schedule right from the start rather than a laser focus on costs they might be in a different position now.

sorry for the upheaval for those affected.

[empacher48]

I feel the guys and gals in the operation. Here is hoping that the upheaval they are facing comes with a successful result at the end of the process.

[Going Nowhere]

I wonder what will happen to the 5 airframes? Does Qlink need another 5 Dash 8s? or will they be sold off?

QLink just paid to have the interiors updated so I'm guessing they'll be back in QLink colours no doubt.

Standby for Aus-based expansion. There's plenty of regional ports that QF currently don't serve.

The crew could be offered jobs in QLink in Aus. There's plenty of vacancies, especially on the Q300 fleet.

[73qanda]

They may look back on it and be thankful if they can quickly and easily transition to an A320 or a 737. Hopefully that’s what happens.

[wheels_down]

It’s a nuisance if your Kiwi based, family, mortgage...highly undesirable for some to move to Oz.

FO 320 Kiwi or Q300 in Oz.

[HappyBandit]

Yeah might be s good option to fill those command vacancies too. Good luck everyone.

[rmcdonal]

I wonder what will happen to the 5 airframes? Does Qlink need another 5 Dash 8s? or will they be sold off?
A better way of putting that would be "Does Qlink need their 5 Dash 8s back?"

[Sparrows.]

A better way of putting that would be "Does Qlink need their 5 Dash 8s back?"

3 of them are due for heavy maintenance, so most likely staying in AKL for that. So at best 2 back to QLink in the short term.

[MikeHatter732]

The crew could be offered jobs in QLink in Aus. There's plenty of vacancies, especially on the Q300 fleet.

They are short with captains at the moment (2 vacant spots at Sydney), but they shot themselves in the foot when they upped the command requirements recently.

The FO base is pretty strong (i.e. averaging 30hrs stick a month [Brissy FO's struggling to hit double digit stick).

Definitely will keep at least a few of the airframes, they seem to be running pretty close to capacity recently.

[What The]

3 of them are due for heavy maintenance, so most likely staying in AKL for that. So at best 2 back to QLink in the short term.

So what will happen then is they will be transferred to the Qantaslink AOC (whichever one) and then the maintenance will be done.
Can’t have Jetstar paying for maintenance.
What an AMAZING business.

[Sparrows.]

So what will happen then is they will be transferred to the Qantaslink AOC (whichever one) and then the maintenance will be done.
Can’t have Jetstar paying for maintenance.
What an AMAZING business.

I could be wrong, but I’m 99% sure they have been on the QLink AOC, the ENTIRE time. Just painted silver with an orange star on the tail.

[cnsnz]

Heavy maint is already underway with VHTQD in NZ Regional Maint Hanger in NSN since 16th Sept

[Gear in transit]

announcing a proposal to end our services on our New Zealand regional routes

We will announce a final decision on the proposal at the end of the required consultation process

All from Garett Evans.

I’m wondering what the consultation process is...... Has a decision been made or not?!? It sounded like it was, but wouldn’t they just say we’re pulling out of NZ regional??
I personally see this as a JQ created opening for the government or local regions to throw money at it. It’s been done several times before in JQ aus, Avalon particularly comes to mind and Darwin with the initial startup. Government or council throw in money and it continues, when the money runs out or is no longer offered, they pull out.

[wheels_down]

They might be waiting until the grants from the authorities end. Its not a matter of just walking away like one striped tail loco did in Adelaide once. They had to pay back millions in grants.

[27/09]

I personally see this as a JQ created opening for the government or local regions to throw money at it. It’s been done several times before in JQ aus, Avalon particularly comes to mind and Darwin with the initial startup. Government or council throw in money and it continues, when the money runs out or is no longer offered, they pull out.


They might be waiting until the grants from the authorities end. Its not a matter of just walking away like one striped tail loco did in Adelaide once. They had to pay back millions in grants.


I must admit the way the announcement was reported made it sound the decision to pull out wasn't final.

However I very much doubt there'll be any local government money for Jetstar either now or in the future. Every destination is also served by Air NZ, therefore any assistance offered to Jetstar would also have to be offered to Air NZ. You can bet if there was any hint of assistance being given to Jetstar but not Air NZ we would have heard about it by now.

[tartare]

Bloody hard to make a buck on those regional NZ routes - no matter who you are.
Back in my Air NZ days day, the legendary Roger Poulton used to give a preso.
He'd show a regional turbo prop in silhouette, and shade off various bits of the fuse to show the costs.
And the profit?
"It's right at the back of the plane... in the toilet!"
Oh and BTW - they're not gouging on the regional routes - they're absolutely frikking mint coining it on WLG-AKL.

[Rated De]

All from Garett Evans.

I’m wondering what the consultation process is...... Has a decision been made or not?!? It sounded like it was, but wouldn’t they just say we’re pulling out of NZ regional??
I personally see this as a JQ created opening for the government or local regions to throw money at it. It’s been done several times before in JQ aus, Avalon particularly comes to mind and Darwin with the initial startup. Government or council throw in money and it continues, when the money runs out or is no longer offered, they pull out.

Nothing but green mail and carpet baggers.

Jetstar has done it before.

Premier Daniel Andrews, the FA Cup of Australian politics, coughed up..

https://www.smh.com.au/business/victoria-government-linfox-inject-26m-to-keep-jetstar-flying-to-avalon-20150427-1mu0s3.html

[Bula]

Sounds like the Qantas group status quo.... we’re going broke paying for AJ, so we had better get the taxpayer to subsidise it.

[27/09]

Rated De and Bula

Not going to happen. There is no way there'll be any subsidy from any form of government. Not while there is someone else still providing a service, which is the case for all the routes in question. Can't subsidise one operator and not the other.

[Beer Baron]

The employment contracts of the staff will likely have a ‘consultation’ clause as in other Qantas Group EA’s. This requires the company to consult with staff prior to major changes taking place that will effect their employment. It’s not worth much as the decision has been made and they won’t change their mind but I expect that to comply with these contracts they now need to pretend the final decision is still to be made.

[GA Driver]

The employment contracts of the staff will likely have a ‘consultation’ clause as in other Qantas Group EA’s. This requires the company to consult with staff prior to major changes taking place that will effect their employment. It’s not worth much as the decision has been made and they won’t change their mind but I expect that to comply with these contracts they now need to pretend the final decision is still to be made.

Legit question, what’s the purpose of the consultation clause then?

[Beer Baron]

Legit question, what’s the purpose of the consultation clause then?
Good question, having read through the consultation clauses in the QF SH and LH EA’s it is hard to see what the benefit is. Perhaps it’s a Fair Work requirement, I don’t know. (Yes, I know NZ is a different jurisdiction).

[Dempster]

[QUOTE=MikeHatter732;10579634]They are short with captains at the moment (2 vacant spots at Sydney), but they shot themselves in the foot when they upped the command requirements recently.


MikeHatter how did they up the command requirements recently? I was under the impression they were reduced.

[George Glass]

Qantas tried competing on NZ domestic routes about 15 years ago. The resistance from parochial Kiwis to the big bad nasty Aussies was huge. It failed. Kiwis don’t really want competition. Plus its a market of less than 5 million people. Best just to leave the Kiwis to it.

[B772]

And Ansett before Qantas as Ansett New Zealand after taking over Newmans Air.

[KeepItStraight]

Qantas tried competing on NZ domestic routes about 15 years ago. The resistance from parochial Kiwis to the big bad nasty Aussies was huge. It failed. Kiwis don’t really want competition. Plus its a market of less than 5 million people. Best just to leave the Kiwis to it.

Certainly not as bad as when Air New Zealand wanted to operate in Australia under the open skies agreement many years ago but was blocked due to lobbying from Qantas. Talk about resistance from the Aussies. Better just left to the Aussies.

[Rated De]

And Ansett before Qantas as Ansett New Zealand after taking over Newmans Air.

The remnants of which, with some juicy impairments became Jetconnect.
The airline with no fleet!

Of course the decision to send the aircraft back to Australia absolutely nothing to do with the exhausted taxation arbitrage shell game...

[PlasticFantastic]

Nothing more than IR speak. Read, we can't officially make a decision until after we meet our obligation to "consult" with the affected employee groups. After which, we will come to the decision which we have already made.
These kind of clauses make more sense for smaller changes to how a company operates, where it is genuinely possible and a good idea to consult affected employees.

They don't really work for decisions like this. A decision to cease operations and shut up shop isn't really one that a company can shop around with all of their staff, without massively spooking their customers and investors - which would probably make the outcome into a foregone conclusion anyway. Who would book flights on an airline, when it is asking its employees whether it should cease operations?

But, if there is no exception to the clause, then 'consultation' legally has to happen.

[MikeHatter732]

MikeHatter how did they up the command requirements recently? I was under the impression they were reduced.


They removed the ability to have reduced time on type with good checking history etc etc (i.e >2000 total, 700 on type)

It's now either 1000/1500 hours depending on your entry method. When people are averaging ~30 stick a month (and they are still hiring FO's, albeit ones straight from Uni :rolleyes:), it takes a while to get the time on type!

No ifs, no buts.

[slamer.]

On a positive note... at least the delays on app into akl airport may improve from end Nov ...��

[27/09]

On a positive note... at least the delays on app into akl airport may improve from end Nov ...��
Some days their A320's are nearly as slow as their Q300's.

[GA Driver]

Some days their A320's are nearly as slow as their Q300's.
Having flown both, I doubt that very much!

[Dempster]

They removed the ability to have reduced time on type with good checking history etc etc (i.e >2000 total, 700 on type)

It's now either 1000/1500 hours depending on your entry method. When people are averaging ~30 stick a month (and they are still hiring FO's, albeit ones straight from Uni :rolleyes:), it takes a while to get the time on type!

No ifs, no buts.


MikeHatter I’m still struggling to see how the Command requirements were increased. Previously the min requirements was 3000hours total and 1500hours on company aircraft. This was the normal intended requirements. There was a provision at the discretion of the CP to reduce those minimums to 700 and 2000 based on previous experience but this was not intended to be the normal requirements. It was at the discretion of the company. However a trend was starting to form where flight crew seemed to forget about the actual requirements and only focused on the reduced hours which wasn’t its intent. So the Command policy was adjust to firm minimums. These minimums are actually less than the previous minimums and as low as 700 hours on company aircraft and 12 months with the company for previous multi crew experience.
For Direct Entry FO it’s 1000 hours and 18 months with the company and Cadets its 1500 hrs and 24 months. All of these are far less that the previous requirements of 1500 hours on company aircraft and 3000 hours total time.

[spektrum]

However a trend was starting to form where flight crew seemed to forget about the actual requirements and only focused on the reduced hours

What difference did this 'focus' or 'perception' make on bottom line for the companies crewing? Candidates wouldn't have been upgraded if they didn't meet the standard anyway.

[Dempster]

Not the case. The minimums were 3000 total and 1500 on company. However at CP discretion it could be reduced to 2000 total and 700 on company aircraft. You would of had to have previous dash time or a large amount of previous experience prior to joining Qlink to be considered for that discretion. However the 3000/1500 seemed to be forgotten and everyone was expecting commands as soon as they reached the 700/1500 and kicking up a stink when the command was rejected as they had little to no other previous experience. The the new Command policy was introduced to have no grey areas and recognise previous experience compared to fresh cadets by having 3 lots of minimums all depending on your experience prior to joining to the group.

[spektrum]

How did they kick up a stink?

[morno]

Are you kidding me? That’s what experience they’ve classifying as adequate to get a command on a Q400? :ugh:

Settle down kids, you’ve barely made it out of flight school with those hours!

The age of entitlement is definitely underway.....

[Bend alot]

The consultation can include a number of things such as notification of final payout details and how people can be expected to be absorbed into the greater group.

Details not included in the EA, can negotiated and agreed.

[73qanda]

‘Negotiated and agreed’ ......I’m not involved but would I be right in saying there would be a serious power imbalance favouring one party during that negotiation?

[Going Boeing]

I recollect that these Dash8 Q300 aircraft were surplus to Eastern & Sunstate requirements and were stored at Tamworth awaiting sale. The recently Uni graduated management experts sipping Latte’s in The Street found that there was no market for these aircraft so they searched for ways to utilise them as it looks bad to have non-revenue aircraft on the books (& not good for KPI’s/bonuses) so the concept of Propstar was born. The failure of this QF Group baby airline will be attributed to the high cost of those pesky pilots and not to the fact that it was poorly thought out by the brains trust.

It will be interesting if they are now able to dispose of these unwanted/unloved aircraft.

[Bend alot]

‘Negotiated and agreed’ ......I’m not involved but would I be right in saying there would be a serious power imbalance favouring one party during that negotiation?
Yes a very large imbalance, but even non financial items wording can make a massive difference that would not effect the employer.

This is form Victoria and no idea about NZ system.

Redundancy Payments | Retrenchment Entitlements | Termination Pay (http://www.moneyhelp.org.au/losing-your-job/redundancy-payment/)

[who_cares]

I’d doubt this has anything to do with Jetstar not making money on the regional flights and more to do with some underhanded deal done back when AirNZ and Qantas agreed to code sharing on domestic flights.

[zulu_kilo]

Has there been any clear word on what the troops are/will be offered in regards options now? Redundancy? Absorbed?

I really feel for the ex Air Nelson NPE crew that left and saw this as a chance to stay home, now their lives are all back up in the air :(

[mattyj]

They could go see the folks at Skyline..I hear there’s a job or 2 available. Especially if you have training experience

[KRUSTY 34]

You mean they'll be offered the chance to do a plethora of aptitude and sim tests, attend a few interviews at their own cost only to be offered a spot on a hold file for 12 months? Thats how the Qantas group treats people my friend.

Yup!

And the group continues to advertise for external applicants?

[Sceva]

Yup!

And the group continues to advertise for external applicants?

Any hope for those external applicants now waiting in excess of 18months on the HF for a training date?

[74world]

SCEVA, have you really been on the HF for over 18 months?
when did you interview?

[Rated De]

You mean they'll be offered the chance to do a plethora of aptitude and sim tests, attend a few interviews at their own cost only to be offered a spot on a hold file for 12 months? Thats how the Qantas group treats people my friend.

A portend for how the employees are treated.
IR/HR at its Machiavellian best.

[Sceva]

SCEVA, have you really been on the HF for over 18 months?
when did you interview?

Back when I had all my hair :zzz:

Early 2018