B747-400xf V. A380-800f

[CR2]

First and foremost, it is not my intention to start an Airbus slagging thread, just interested in my fellow L/M's opinions.

I've been involved in the studies our airline has conducted over the last couple of years (meetings, presentations, studies etc). My opinions have changed little ie I think the A380 will be a useless freighter.

A380

-No Nose Cargo Door. We asked Airbus about this years ago during the A3XXF studies. Trop difficile & you don't need it they tell us in TLS. Don't agree. No better than a big DC8 without one. They should call it the A380-800PF (package freighter) - ok for the UPS/Fedex/DHL of this world.

-Cargo doors to small (ok they're wide). The aircraft can't carry anything higher than 96" (or 244cms - AMA container size). How do they propose internal engine carriage? Seems to me than anyone who needs to ferry an engine for an AOG situation is going to have to buy space on a 74F anyway. On a similar tack, just think of the lost revenue - we carry hundreds of engines to Seattle. And how the hell do you want to load a 40FT pallet?

-Floor limits no higher than the current 744F.

-Like the crew-rest area though (until they come up with a conversion to put bulk cargo in there).

B744 modifications.

-Ok, wish Boeing would make up their bloody minds. I keep forgetting all the different new designations (ERF, QLRF, ERF. XQLRF..... Polish is easier to understand than all of this).

-Has a Nose Cargo Door, therefore a real freighter. I'm only limited by the maindeck length. (I loaded the yachts for the Waterworld movie back in '93 - 60ft long. Nose open, yachts in, doors closed - no probs). We sent a 100ft yackt mast down to Brazil recently for one of the 'round the would boats that had a broken one.

-I can load through the nose, while still offloading through the Side Cargo Door. Time saving.

-I reckon the stretch high gross weight version will be around 2008. Same payload (150T) as the Airbus.

-Agree, the design is somewhat long in the tooth but so what? It is successful.

I pray we don't buy the bloody thing. What really sticks in my craw is some damn fool desk operator who has never even seen a pallet or container telling me a nose-door is not necessaire

Over to you.

Edited for spelling. Oh and by the way, Air France should be getting their new 747-400ERF any time now.

[RampTramp]

CR2,

I'm inclined to agree with you. Having been in several presentation/discussion groups with Airbus
regarding both the Pax & Freighter versions, I think they missed the point on the F. As you say,
PF would be better although I hope to God that my lot doesn't get ideas in that direction. The
turnround times ain't gonna be what we need, even if the manufacturers manage to resolve the problem
of the upper deck hilo. Last time I spoke to any of them, they were still struggling, especially
with stability.
In all my dealings with Airbus, they haven't got the freighter experience & it shows. Their
proposal for the A320 series freighter to challenge the B757 was well wide of the mark.
Again, I don't want to knock Airbus, our A300's suit us well & I do prefer being long haul SLF on
the 330/340 series, however, they don't seem to have their freighter act together.

RT

[CR2]

RT,
8 meters above ground level. I get the creeps looking down from the 74's 5.5m.... I'll bring your point up about stability next time I see 'em. I'd been led to believe the highloader designs were well down the pipeline. That's actually the reason I didn't mention it above.
I'm just hoping that sense will prevail (in our case). I wouldn't know if I would laugh or cry taking the thing to somewhere juicy like ABJ :D

edited for spelling again; still getting used to my new keyboard.

[744rules]

Cargorat2,
I fully agree on all your comments re 744f, but I have one question. Do you really have the need for increased floor capacity? For what kind of cargo is this ??
Maybe Boeing should consider to have a higher nose door, so it could take Q7 contour !!!

[CR2]

744R, the airline I work for is renowned for carrying big & heavy stuff.
Can't see how the nose-door could be increased height-wise since the upperdeck floorbeams are in the way.

[744rules]

Cargorat
of corse I know the flootbeams are in the way. What I suggested was that when Boeing should make modifications to their freighter, they might consider to redesign the a/c in such way that the nosedoor can take q7 frt , instead of increasing payload and/or range.

BTW, is your company based in Lux ?

[CR2]

yup,
guess you'll be operating out of eblg then?

[Buster Hyman]

CR2. That's funny, my company has similar thoughts like yours!!:D :D

Lets face it, there are belly carriers flying everywhere these days. If you're going to design an aircraft to be a freighter, surely you'd want it to be able to carry outsized cargo? To do this, as you've stated, I agreee that the nose door & large side doors are mandatory.

I haven't really been up to date with the A380's development, but one would've thought they try to be innovative to attempt to capture some of the 744F's market. By that I mean something like an inhold system between decks or the like.

At the end of the day though, if Airbus don't take some sort of initiative, someone else is going to take the AN124 platform & turn it into a potential 744F beater!

[BlueEagle]

Maybe Airbus are hoping all the freight companies will rush out and buy their Beluga?;)