MCC for FO on single pilot aircraft?

[pilotchute]

Well it appears the pilot tree is full again. I just spied an ad on AFAP asking for King Air FO. At first I assumed it was an FO job flying a Hawker 850 and a King Air but it doesn't seem to be that way.

The funny thing is the King Air FO position requires you to have 50 PIC on type and have done an MCC course. Not only that but an ATPL also!

​​​​​​If I had King Air PIC and an ATPL the last thing I would want to do is be a seat warmer on a single pilot aircraft.

[717tech]

What model King Air? Could it be a contractual requirement?

[pilotchute]

Good luck complying with that contract requirement.
Good luck trying to log it too.

[junior.VH-LFA]

The B350 is FAR25 and all that comes with that.

[aviator777]

There are one or more operators that have approval in the form of an exemption, permitted co-pilot time. It would be part of their ops manual. I imagine there would need to be some good reason.

As for the 50PIC, yes that might be a challenge to find a willing party.

[pilotchute]

B200. I have seen an approval for 2 pilot ops for RPT but not an on demand charter mob

[YPJT]

The sort of thing RIO and BHP get up to. Most smaller mining companies are happy enough with the requirements as prescribed by the regulator

[industry insider]

Most smaller mining companies are happy enough with the requirements as prescribed by the regulator

Which are pretty low and why the likes of RIO and BHP and all the oil and gas companies require a higher standard.

B200. I have seen an approval for 2 pilot ops for RPT but not an on demand charter mob

I would genuinely like to know where, as its a problem for some of my customers. I have yet to come across a BE200 2 pilot SOP OM approval for RPT or Charter and I look at several operations per year.

[Cloudee]

https://www.afap.org.au/pilot-jobs/pilot-job/3668/HAWKER%20850XPKINGAIR%20B200

“Revesco Aviation is a leading Australian owned aviation organisation with a proven record in operating charters and managing contracts for some of Australia’s leading Oil and Gas and Mining companies.

Revesco Aviation is looking to expand its operations and support another valued customer, by growing our flight operations business where an exciting opportunity has emerged for you to work with us as a Pilot In Command or First Officer on either the Hawker 8520 XP aircraft or the Beechcraft Per King Air B200 aircraft, or both.”

[Global Aviator]

Many a contract called for 2 pilots even in a Chieftain. If the client required it one must find a way.

[Capt Fathom]

pilotchute, you are a party pooper! They are obviously looking for potential Captains.

[pilotchute]

If you have 50 PIC you are a Captain. They just don't want to pay for a PIC. That is why the ad is for an FO.

​​​​​They are stingy.

[AerocatS2A]

Captain is not something you are or are not, it is a position you hold within a company. If the company have to operate a single pilot aircraft with two pilots and you are hired to sit in the right seat, then you are not a captain, even if you have 10,000 hours PiC on type.

[pilotchute]

Captain is not something you are or are not, it is a position you hold within a company. If the company have to operate a single pilot aircraft with two pilots and you are hired to sit in the right seat, then you are not a captain, even if you have 10,000 hours PiC on type.
Im just waiting for other companies to follow suit.

​​​​​FO wanted for 737.
Must have 737 PIC time
Entry level FO remuneration offered
Those without 737 PIC time not eligible

[Global Aviator]

Im just waiting for other companies to follow suit.

​​​​​FO wanted for 737.
Must have 737 PIC time
Entry level FO remuneration offered
Those without 737 PIC time not eligible

What would be the issue with that? Advertised position for an FO..... Now requiring a Capt qualification means that if someone takes the job they really need it or one wouldn’t apply. Can’t see that requirement ever happening!!!

[AerocatS2A]

Im just waiting for other companies to follow suit.

​​​​​FO wanted for 737.
Must have 737 PIC time
Entry level FO remuneration offered
Those without 737 PIC time not eligible

Imagine if 99% of B737s flew single pilot. They'd be a bit thick to require FO time on a B737 right? Because almost no one would have it. So if 99% of B737 operations were single pilot and an operator had to operate one multi-pilot and they wanted a pilot with B737 experience, the ad you've described seems perfectly reasonable.

[LeadSled]

There are one or more operators that have approval in the form of an exemption, permitted co-pilot time. It would be part of their ops manual. I imagine there would need to be some good reason.
As for the 50PIC, yes that might be a challenge to find a willing party.

Folks, Ain't it wonderful, welcome to Australia
Start with ratbag rules about how and when pilots log hours (ICAO non-compliant, of course) then a bureaucratic (and not inexpensive) "answer" to a question that should never have needed to be asked.
Tootle pip!!

[Checkboard]

FO wanted for 737.
Must have 737 PIC time
Entry level FO remuneration offered
Those without 737 PIC time not eligible
Pretty common for those over 60/65 who can no longer fly in command, but can fly right hand seat.

There are one or more operators that have approval in the form of an exemption, permitted co-pilot time. It would be part of their ops manual. I imagine there would need to be some good reason.
https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2015L01189

[tail wheel]

"I have yet to come across a BE200 2 pilot SOP OM approval for RPT or Charter and I look at several operations per year."

Norfolk Island Airlines and Flight West Airlines both had Operations Manuals for two pilot RPT operations using Beech 200 aircraft. Should not be too difficult to locate a copy?

[megan]

Spent half a life time flying two pilot on two aircraft types that were legal to fly single pilot in IMC, although we were confined to VFR. Why two pilot? Because that's what the owner/operator wanted.

[LeadSled]

Spent half a life time flying two pilot on two aircraft types that were legal to fly single pilot in IMC, although we were confined to VFR. Why two pilot? Because that's what the owner/operator wanted.
Megan,
AaaaaahhhhhH, But!!
Were you fully compliant ( as in fully legal, as opposed to quasi legal, semi legal or part legal, part illegal) with current Australian regulations.
That's the hardest bit!!!
Aviation in Australia is so simple and straightforward, isn't it??
Tootle pip!!

PS: The "rools" can and have been interpreted as it being a criminal offence for a pilot, who is not a required crew member (as in a second pilot aboard) in a single pilot certified aeroplane to take any part in the operation, and certainly not touch the controls, unless subject to a "specific approval" (or, of course, it is training)..... and, heaven forbid, log anything ......as proof of the offence.

[industry insider]

Norfolk Island Airlines and Flight West Airlines both had Operations Manuals for two pilot RPT operations using Beech 200 aircraft. Should not be too difficult to locate a copy?

Thanks Tail Wheel but maybe I should be clearer, I have copies of beautifully crafted 2 Pilot SOPs but none have been approved by the regulator recently (as far as I am aware) as the regulator maintains the BE200 is a single pilot aircraft. The operator will carry a 2nd pilot as a "safety pilot" but that doesn't meet client requirements for charter ops.

[LeadSled]

Thanks Tail Wheel but maybe I should be clearer, I have copies of beautifully crafted 2 Pilot SOPs but none have been approved by the regulator recently (as far as I am aware) as the regulator maintains the BE200 is a single pilot aircraft. The operator will carry a 2nd pilot as a "safety pilot" but that doesn't meet client requirements for charter ops.

Folks,
Adding to my last post, this is what I was alluding to --- the completely ratbag "literalist" CASA approach to crewing small aircraft ---- common sense is a criminal offence.

In "the real world", the fact that an aircraft can be flown single pilot is not a "LIMITATION", if you want a two pilot crew, and the aircraft has dual controls.

Stupidity on steroids. I would just love to see the CASA "safety case" justification that shows it is less safe to have another endorsed pilot in the RHS of, say, a B200, including without a lot of MCC nonsense or manual amendments, just a briefing from the PIC as to duties.
Tootle pip!!

[Bravo Delta]

What’s wrong with single pilot ? It’s the only way to operate - unless you need someone else to hold your hand.

[Checkboard]

This contract is explained on this thread: https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/625762-hawker-850xp-kingair-b200.html

It's the WA government spending ... er ... saving taxpayer money by buying the two aircraft they previously hired.

[Climb150]

So three companies wasting people's time advertising jobs to sevice a contract that they have a 33% chance of getting.

They won't even interview someone for thing King Air FO job without an MCC.

[LeadSled]

What’s wrong with single pilot ? It’s the only way to operate - unless you need someone else to hold your hand.
BD,
Not the issue, really.
Read up in BAR Audit literature, you may learn something to your advantage.
Whether you like it or not, many large corporations require a two pilot crew.
Tootle Pip!!

[industry insider]

What’s wrong with single pilot ? It’s the only way to operate - unless you need someone else to hold your hand.

I operated Single Pilot IFR for years and great fun it was too. But you won't find an oil company or an established mining company that will accept your opinion.