BBMF Dakota engine shutdown and diversion to Manchester, 14-9-19

[Super VC-10]

The BBMF's Dakota suffered an engine failure and diverted to Manchester yesterday, where it landed safely.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/live-manchester-airport-emergency-landing-16919754

[MPN11]

The comments on Danny Kay’s Twitter feed, linked from the comments, are worth reading too! Not often you see such complete unanimity!

[Super VC-10]

The comments on Danny Kay’s Twitter feed, linked from the comments, are worth reading too! Not often you see such complete unanimity!

It's well worth a read.

https://twitter.com/DKay_99/status/1172869867848044544

[Compass Call]

Could somebody please enlighten me - Who is this c****n Danny Kay?
He obviously has no respect at all and is only interested in his own ego.

[MPN11]

Could somebody please enlighten me - Who is this c****n Danny Kay?
He obviously has no respect at all and is only interested in his own ego.
He appears to be a Manchester United football supporter, which may xplain some of it ;)

[Pontius Navigator]

There are unconfirmed reports the aircrew are unhurt

Presumably, after wrestling with the controls the pilot heroically missed the junior school that was closed at the time 😀

Anyway, good smooth landing, no dramas.

[chevvron]

As Manchester has 2 parallel runways, there were only minor delays while the AFS dealt with the incident, so he's talking b0llocks more like a Spurs supporter than Man U.
The engine which was feathered was on the same side as the one damaged during an incident at Farnborough many years ago when the port main gear collapsed shortly before an intended takeoff.

[H Peacock]

[QUOTE]The engine which was feathered was on the same side as the one damaged during an incident at Farnborough many years ago when the port main gear collapsed shortly before an intended takeoff./QUOTE]

Ah, the gear retracted during the 'top it down/up' confusion incident!

ZA947 has had many engine changes since then!

[aw ditor]

I thought one feathered' "Props".

[NutLoose]

But the prop governor tends to be on the engine and uses engine oil pressure to move the prop to feather.... just saying.

[sycamore]

Nutty,some do some don`t,but we won`t argue...
At least it was the correct engine,unlike the Norwegian one at Duxford.....

[dook]

sycamore is correct.

I do not know the engine but does it have a feathering accumulator ?

[NutLoose]

So true Sycamore, I have all Aircraft piston engines and wobbly props on my engineering licences BTW ;)

[NutLoose]

HAMILTON STANDARD CONSTANT SPEED PROPELLER

Figure 1
1.6.5 Feathering System GeneralEach propeller is equipped with a quick feathering system. Feathering of the blades to the maximum angle position of 88° gives a powerful braking effect to stop a running engine, prevents windmilling of the propeller after the engine has been stopped and reduces the aerodynamic drag to a minimum. The feathering system also can be used for unfeathering of the propeller in case an engine has to be restarted after it has been shut down in flight. Propeller FeatheringThe system is powered by an electrically driven gear type oil pump controlled from the cockpit by momentarily pressing the feathering button in the overhead panel. An electrical solenoid will keep the feathering button in the depressed position. This action will activate the feathering pump, which is mounted on the front side of the fire wall. The pump takes oil from a separate part of the engine oil tank and feeds it under high pressure, while hydraulically disconnecting the governor by shifting its high pressure transfer valve, to the propeller blade angle changing mechanism in the propeller dome. This high pressure oil acts on the aft side of the propeller piston forcing the piston to its maximum stop. This movement of the piston turns the blades, via a bevel geared cam and bevel gear segments on the blades, from the actual blade angle through the coarse blade angle range to a blade angle of 88°, which is the feathered position in which the blades are streamlined in the flight direction. When the piston is at this maximum forward position the feathering oil pressure will rise. At about 600 psi a pressure cut-out switch in the feathering oil line, mounted on the governor will automatically switch off the electric power to the solenoid of the feathering button, releasing this button and interrupting electrical power to the feathering pump. Feathering takes approximately four seconds. Propeller UnfeatheringFor this operation higher oil pressure is required than for feathering. Therefore the pressure cutout switch in the feathering pump motor circuit has to be overridden. This can be done by manually holding the feathering button in the depressed position. The oil pressure on the aft side of the propeller piston in the blade changing mechanism will then rise above the 600 psi of the pressure cut-out switch setting. At about 625 psi a distributor valve, mounted in the center of the propeller dome will be activated and will change the direction of the oil flow from the aft side of the propeller piston to the forward side. The piston now will move aft and will force the blades towards the fine pitch blade angle. Normally in flight the propeller will start to windmill as soon as it is out of the feathered position. At about 800 RPM the feathering button must be released to stop the feathering pump and the engine can be started. The distributor valve returns to its normal position, the high pressure transfer valve in the governor will close and the pressure cut-out switch will close, thereby resetting the automatic feathering cut-out system. The propeller governor will resume its normal automatic propeller speed control as soon as the engine is running and engine oil pressure is normal. Unfeathering takes approximately twelve seconds. The Electrical CircuitPressing the feathering button against its spring will energize the feathering relay which then closes the circuit from the aircraft electrical main bus to the feathering pump motor. The feathering pump produces oil under pressure and the feathering sequence is started. Activation of the button also will power a holding coil in the feathering button which will hold the feathering button in the depressed position against the spring. In the circuit of the holding coil a
pressure cut-out switch, mounted on the propeller governor, completes the circuit as long as the oil pressure is below 600 psi. When the propeller is fully feathered, which means that the propeller piston is at the forward stop, the oil pressure will rise above 600 psi and the pressure cut-out switch will break the holding circuit in the feathering button. The spring in the feathering button will bring the button back to its normal position while breaking the power to the feathering relay. The relay will be de-energized and the power to the feathering motor will be cut off. thus completing the feathering action (see figure 2). Pressing and manually holding the feathering button will bypass the button holding circuit. Operation of the pressure cut-out switch at 600 psi oil pressure will have no effect, the feathering relay will stay energized and the pump continues running. The oil pressure will rise above 625 psi and unfeathering will take place.


dda (http://www.douglasdc3.com/dda/dda.htm)

[dook]

That answers that.

[chevvron]

[QUOTE]The engine which was feathered was on the same side as the one damaged during an incident at Farnborough many years ago when the port main gear collapsed shortly before an intended takeoff./QUOTE]

Ah, the gear retracted during the 'top it down/up' confusion incident!

ZA947 has had many engine changes since then!
Don't doubt it has; in this case the prop broke off so the engine was probably scrap.

[jolihokistix]

A BBMF Dakota was expected for a memorial service in Scotland on 1 September but the flight was cancelled due to... an engine failure (?) I think. I wonder if this is the same aircraft/problem?

[Super VC-10]

A BBMF Dakota was expected for a memorial service in Scotland on 1 September but the flight was cancelled due to... an engine failure (?) I think. I wonder if this is the same aircraft/problem?

It is, the BBMF only has the one Dakota.

[Jobza Guddun]

Same aircraft, different problem....

[Tankertrashnav]

Mint this stuck on a legit working plane going nowhere. Pricks.

Could somebody please enlighten me - Who is this c****n Danny Kay?

Never mind who he is, can anyone tell me what that sentence means (if sentence it is)? Mint this?

[Captivep]

Never mind who he is, can anyone tell me what that sentence means (if sentence it is)? Mint this?

I think it translates as "this is good!" in an ironic tone...

He got one thing right, though. Take the s off the last word in his tweet and it describes him to a t!

[Tankertrashnav]

Ah yes I see now - a good example of the need for punctuation! So, mint means "good"? Never too late to learn something new.

[dagenham]

mint ttn, mint

[spekesoftly]

Meanwhile, back with the Dak. Is there any news on the nature of the engine problem, and how long it may take to fix?

[ETOPS]

Was a passenger on a TCX Airbus last night (don't ask) and caught a glimpse of the Dak being worked on in the hangar at the Jet Centre. Could just see a small crane and an engine with quite a gang of RAF engineers. Reckon she will out and about by the weekend.

[spekesoftly]

Thanks ETOPS, that sounds encouraging.

[Espada III]

Mint - Mancunian for 'good'.

Usually used by people of low educational level or trying to imitate those.... Unless describing a car in which case anyone uses it. "... his ten year old Mercedes was in mint condition.."

[langleybaston]

I am reminded of the oft-quoted:

Llantrisant ,the hole with the Mint.

[Tankertrashnav]

As an ex coin dealer "mint" as an adjective has a specific, but often misused meaning, ie a coin still in the same condition as when it left the mint. Unfortunately in most cases, hopeful sellers with a coin they described in mint condition very often produced a well-worn specimen showing signs of many years of circulation. When I pointed its deficiencies out they would often say, "well it's in mint condition - for its age".

[Chugalug2]

TTN:-
can anyone tell me what that sentence means (if sentence it is)? Mint this?

I believe that the gentlemen in the Press Gallery have taken note of you learned question, M'lud.

[ehwatezedoing]

As Manchester has 2 parallel runways, there were only minor delays while the AFS dealt with the incident, so he's talking b0llocks more like a Spurs supporter than Man U.
Yes, unless they kept some inertia all the way to their parking spot, it kind off sucks Big time trying to taxi a twin tail wheel on one engine :p


Ah, the gear retracted during the 'top it down/up' confusion incident!
"top it down/up" confusion!?
Do you mind expending this old story to my retarded brain? Obviously a gear mishandling on the ground but why exactly?
(I cannot find it on the net)

[langleybaston]

surely "momentum" not "inertia"

[ehwatezedoing]

surely "momentum" not "inertia"
Correct, thank you.

[chevvron]

Report in 'Private Flying' indicated it landed on 23L, in which case it would need to 180 and backtrack (there being no taxiway from the south west end of 23L to the terminal) to get to the terminal which it obviously could not do.
I presume when using the 23 direction that 23L would normally be the departure runway with 23R for arrivals; on 05s then they would normally use 05R for arrivals and 05L for departures.

[Squawk 6042]

I presume when using the 23 direction that 23L would normally be the departure runway with 23R for arrivals; on 05s then they would normally use 05R for arrivals and 05L for departures.

Yes, that is correct and for the reason that you state, there is no taxiway alongside 23L/05R. I always think of EGCC as a 1.5 runway airport rather than a 2 runway airport! :)

[ETOPS]

Managed another peek into the hangar and saw she was still there but clearly minus the port engine. As it was Sunday evening there didn't seem to be any work taking place.

[ETOPS]

Just taken off from Manchester and heading home............

[mmitch]

I was at the BBMF Tuesday last week. A van from Retro Track and Air with a radial engine parcelled up on a trailer was just leaving. The guide told us that the problem clearing the Dakota from the runway was the airport didn't have a DC3 tow bar!
mmitch.

[chevvron]

Ground crew at Farnborough had one, but they also used to tow it forwards with ropes attached to the mainwheels and a guy with a sort of tiller steering the tailwheel..