View Full Version : Ezy cancel flights due to crew shortage

yankee charlie
8th Aug 2002, 06:59
Easyjet cancelled 10 flights yesterday because of Crew shortage.

Passengers were stranded at ORY,GVA, LGW and ZRH on Wednesday(07/08/02)night.

8th Aug 2002, 09:34
I've offered my services -- all they have to do is call me.

8th Aug 2002, 09:40
Look, if we're going to have a "Railtrack of the Skies" then we have to have the [email protected] excuses that accompany our train services.

Waiting for the leaves on the runway to start playing havoc with the system... :rolleyes:

Buster the Bear
8th Aug 2002, 09:52
Add into the equation all the aircraft that have been sub-chartered to fill a void, 4 different aircraft used a Luton alone on Monday!

8th Aug 2002, 10:13
easyJet arrogance has gone so far as to not allow people that have turned them down before, a second shot. In June of 2001 I took a B747 job ahead of an easyJet offer; it paid more for goodness sake. This year when my airline went bankrupt, I approached them again and I was given the bog standard "I'm looking into it" bullsh!t by JL and here cronies. Every enquiry I made was brushed off, and nobody was prepared to shoot me straight. I'm more than qualified for the position and was available at the drop of a hat. I'd also cruised their selection procedure. But no; since I'd turned them down once before, their better-than-though policy got in the way of employing a suitable candidate. They have since stated publicly that it is not policy to look at people that have turned them down before. I'm sure that there are many more like me out there.

In my opinion easyJet arrogance will become their failure. Bigger , better and bolder airlines have crumpled in the wake of patheticism!

Land After
8th Aug 2002, 10:25
Maybe easyJ are looking for someone with a commitment to a long career, rather than someone who would take a chance on a 747 job because

it paid more for goodness sake

In my opinion you should spend some time getting your toys back in your pram, then maybe post a pertinent comment on the thread.

8th Aug 2002, 10:46
Can't agree more. If you ever turned down a job with me in favour of another carrier, I would question your loyalties to me and not employ you if yu reapplied because you are now out of a job. The reason is that at the first B747 carrier offering you more money, you'd walk.

8th Aug 2002, 11:01
Changing the topic a little, I have tried to apply on line 8 times, but failed. Has this happened to anyone else?

8th Aug 2002, 11:04
I took the B747 job because it appeared a better opportunity at the time and it paid more. It wasn't. It went bankrupt. It has paid off though. Since then I've been upgraded to captain on the B747 and I'm earning a whack more than those poor slave-driven (not so) easyJet pilots.

About not being bitter: I'm not bitter; I'm p!ssed off! With whacko airlines that rip the ring out the system, charge pilots to apply for jobs, don't contribute a penny to bringing young people into aviation, in fact scare them off, and then cry out when there's another shortage.

About applying for a job with FS2002: I fly real aircraft mate, contribute to the aviation fraternity by donating my instructional time to youngsters in need; write for various aviation publications; run an aviation web site bringing employment to pilots and more. You have no idea mate. As far as I'm concerned, your naive statement would mean that are not only NOT an employer, but that if you were, you'd be running up against a severe pilot shortage now.

You all have a great day now. :D

Steve Moody
8th Aug 2002, 11:09
126.9: Perhaps the refusal to reconsider you might be something to do with your spelling?

We certainly have our problems in easy, particularly in rostering and crewing, but as a company it's the best I've worked for. I think you made your big mistake in turning down a job with the most progressive airline around: big prospects and solid pilot management at least at middle management level.....

Toodle pip!

Chilli Ray
8th Aug 2002, 11:15
What you are talking about is loyalty. Unfortunately airlines seem to think their employees owe them something for employing them yet continuely let those employees down. You just need to read these forums to see how many airline staff have been [email protected] on.
Why shouldn't someone take more money to benefit him/herself and their respective families. I very much doubt you can find a company prepared to offer you a cast iron guarantee of a job for life. The tieless wonder kids at easyjet will drop you without a second thought to you, your career, family or future, anything. Its the classic case of "i am allright jack". You want loyalty and respect from your employees try showing them some.

8th Aug 2002, 11:54
Agree, also agree with 26.9, not looking at a pilot a second time because he/she turned you down is very short sighted. Whose wisdom was injected into that decision - HR by any chance?

Anyway my guess is that it will change over the next couple of years.

Best Rgds

P.S I have no problems with the boys/girls at slezy, got some good mates there.

Stan Woolley
8th Aug 2002, 12:00


You are a master of sarcasm .............or...........

Your credibility just hit the ground at around 600kts!

Floppy Link
8th Aug 2002, 12:20
126.9 your position sounds familiar!

here's the story....

1) current on 757/767 for a charter operator, 6500hrs
2) applied to eJ last summer (ie BEFORE the post 911 "downturn")
3) passed all the selection process
4) given an offer
5) swopped emails and calls about course dates, last heard from them in Oct 2001 with the words "you are top of the list and will contact you to confirm a place asap"
6) between Nov and June 02 sent in 3 update emails and 2 letters and numerous phone calls (to the voicemail). Got no replies but I thought they were busy with the Go thing, then...
7) 4 July email from them which I read with minor interest at first because it said "you will not be reassessed if you have failed any part of our selection" (didn't apply to me) and "candidates who have turned us down in the past will not be reassessed" (didn't apply to me). The text finished with the words "I'm sorry it's not better news but thank you for the time and the interest which you showed in easyJet" (that made me sit up straight!)
8) I rang them and got through to Laure Van Rensburg. Was told that I had turned them down (not true). Rang Joyce Linehan on her mobile and as she was driving, I said I'd ring back the next week. Since then I've been unable to get past the voicemail.
9) Spent a weekend composing my thoughts and then sent a 3 page email to Joyce (backed up with a hard copy in the post) setting out my reasons for wanting to join eJ - not as a backup option for my current job (see (2) above), and trying to find out where they got the idea that I turned them down. That was over two weeks ago and I have heard nothing :mad: Maybe there are reasons for this but even an email acknowledgement of my letter would be nice, and easy to do, and would take 10 seconds.
It hacks me off because I still want to work for them, as an ex helicopter man I need to be busy and short haul multi sector days have much more appeal to me than 9 hours over the Atlantic to SFB. It went from "will contact you asap" via months of silence to "thank you for your interest"
I still want to work that type of operation but I've probably blown it now with this post, and to be honest I've subconsciously given up hope on eJ. :( I'm still ready and waiting though, and if they come back to me I'll be tempted. Joyce, you will have worked out my identity and you know how to get in touch...

Floppy Link

8th Aug 2002, 12:35
Careful, you just never know who you are talking to in this forum...

What you have shown, regardless of your impacable CV, 126.9, is a maturity level below that of my grade 1 kid.

8th Aug 2002, 12:41
How much can you squeeze out of an orange?

What about loyalty to the pax involved? Were they diverted to other airlines or to hotels for stay over? Heard too many stories about pax being left in the cold after cancelled flights (sorry Sir, Madam this is not a part of our company policy, would you care for a copy of our sales terms?).

From the above reactions, I gather EJ has simply too much applicants and are in the position to reject pilots who have choosen for another job?


PS I sincerely hope above will not influence the presence of the EJ and Ryan banners on this site??

8th Aug 2002, 12:55
With all of these posts, and previous threads about EZY, we will not know an answer for another five years.

EZY are a very young company and they have to learn. They will have learnt by having their pax sit-in at Nice and they will have learnt from the ghastly publicity of cancelling 10 flights.

IF this was due to their being too busy with the integration of GO, then they will have the chance to prove themselves.

IF they have cut matters too close to the bone, then they will be found out.

Little companies have growing pains, these are a few of them. If, in five years time, they are no longer making these mistakes, they will be a big company and be grown up. If not, they will be a minor player, or out of business.

I have had mostly good service from EZY but occasionally bad. You pays your money ...

I do not deny the enormous frustration of these events to all, pax, crew and would be employees but every company makes these mistakes. The difference now to even five years ago is this - PPRuNe and the wide spread use of e-mail. People can pass on these stories faster than was previously possible and to a, potentially, unlimited audience. Remarkably, that audience may include the very people about whom they are complaining! EZY is, in part, a child of the internet and it should bear in mind the downside of it too.

If they have any sense, they will be reading and logging all of these forums every day. It has to be the finest source of management research imaginable. And it's free!!

8th Aug 2002, 13:10
Yankee Charlie
Thanks for stirring up another moaning thread from inside the company. If it's that bad try: http://www.ryanair.com/intropilot.html

omoko joe
8th Aug 2002, 13:32
Floppy Link,
take a look around you and consider it a lucky escape. I know you're not alone in your experiences with easyjet recruitment. Pity you hadn't applied to Go. I hear they're none to happy with the way EZY recruit either. ;)

8th Aug 2002, 14:01
Got to agree with the bones of 126.9's message.

Easy have definately lost their shine with this bad attitude they've developed.

8th Aug 2002, 15:14
Dear Steve Moody
I do apologise for my bad spelling. I must admit, I do have great difficulty maintaining written fluency in all four of the languages that I speak. I am nonetheless embarrased to cock up in English; after all, it was the third one that I learnt!

As for my opinions regarding hardJet; I rest my case. I guess the rest of the postings on this thread say it loud and clear (at least the ones posted by real pilots do). Huh FS2002?

8th Aug 2002, 15:26
I think that most of you righteous "loyal" comfortable people are a load of bl**dy hipocrites. If the market is good and you have more than one offer in your pocket, you choose the best. Bin Liner comes along and changes the world and you're trying to tell 126.9 that he's immature and made his choice wrongly and the rest, like he was in a position to predict the end of the world.
Just take a look at yourselves, the time may come one day when you're all dressed in puke orange and nowhere to GO!!!
Give the man a chance.


Little Friend
8th Aug 2002, 15:45

Don't listen to 121.5-your a good bloke.

But that was a crap post....see you in the crewroom..I'll be the one with bags under my eyes.

Little F

8th Aug 2002, 17:50
Maybe EZY should spend a little more on crewing their commercial operation rather than their easy barbrque nights....................... Discuss.

old & Tired
8th Aug 2002, 17:52
Steve Moody

As a retired training captain I’m appalled you are making personal comments, bye the way being dyslexia did not hamper my career in the RAF or Airlines.

FS2002: Grow up

8th Aug 2002, 18:09
Well as one one of the unlucky ones who spent the night in a hotel in Zurich last night and missed a days work today due to the late running of today's flight I think I've made my last easyJet flight. Next time it's a search through teletext and a scout around online for an airline who can actually manage to run a service. Previously I'd been a bit of an enthusiast, but last night was a joke. Jet Avaition at Zurich did their best to help, but several of the easyJet staff (with a couple of exceptions) were worse than useless. The rumour today was that the flight out of Gatwick was late because it was had to be fuelled twice, originally not having taken into account the extra passengers that had been added from the cancelled flight the night before. So having arrived home 14 hours late, I'm off to easyClaim to persuade Stelios to pay for my flight and then maybe I'll write some crew rostering/HR software to flog to him...

Devils Advocate
8th Aug 2002, 18:13
Many moons ago, as a young school lad, I (rather naively) wanted to be a 'Deck Officer' in the British Merchant Navy where, way back then, the shipping industry was manned by seasoned and well paid professionals.

But things in that industry have moved on (certainly since the 1950's and 60's heydays), and one might say that the aviation industry seems to be paralleling the shipping industry with w.r.t its terms and conditions, i.e. nobody in their right mind would subject themselves to the terms and conditions to which the majority of the shipping (or indeed any 'mature' transportation ) industry now subject their staff to, i.e. the pay is crap - and getting worse - as indeed are the overall terms and conditions, and generally it's mostly manned by (desperate for employment) crews from third world nations.

So anybody care to guess where aviation is headed and / or care to write a 'glimpse into the future 25 years from now' ?!

8th Aug 2002, 22:17
Interesting point, however the shipping industry is one of the least regulated in the world, hence flags of convenience, and the fact that anyone can buy a boat, and cause mayhem on the high seas, with no qualifications whatsoever. The story is a little different in aviation.

Aviation is very tightly controlled (PPL medicals for example). How many tanker captains have to undergo sim checks, route checks and medicals? No one but BA pilots can fly BA aircraft due to the nature of BA's operation, and likewise with a lot of other airlines.

I think this a good thing. Did you know that on average one merchant ship sinks every day? This goes unnoticed because they are carrying freight (not SLF!). Perhaps the shift towards air travel coincided with the slip in standards in the shipping industry, and increasing use of flags of convenience happened.:p

Hand Solo
8th Aug 2002, 22:28
Yes but plenty of people who are not BA pilots fly aircraft in BA colours, and if BA management had their way no BA pilots would fly BA coloured aircraft. As far as I see it there are two barriers to flagging out our entire industry:

1) aviation is far less forgiving than shipping - mistakes have catastrophic consequences quickly and attract lots of attention. Flagging out to poorly trained individuals will ultimately become bad for business.

2) Most SLF ships for western passengers have at least a western Captain whilst the crew can come from anywhere. The passengers feel more comfortable with that particular figurehead. Your average Sun reading punter will probably be less than happy if he got on an aeroplane and found the flight crew were from Kazakhstan and barely spoke English.

8th Aug 2002, 23:19
Aircrafts fly because pilots are paid!!!

It is not a question of loyalty, most of the pilots will move to another company if they are paid better, it´s always been as easy as it is.

if companies prefer to spend money in an unexperienced pilot instead of an experienced one that´s there problem. In cheap companies as easy-jet, ryan-air and so young pilots will leave the company as soon another position is available in a good one.

thing are changing for pilots and in the next 3 years we will see a shortage in pilots, on most of the big companies almost 35% of pilots will retire in this period...p.e: Ba will retire 1500 pilots, Iberia 600 and so....

Easy jet guys!!!! bad times for you are comming!!!!

9th Aug 2002, 04:02
I have to agree with 126.9

I did an Easy selection day last year. Passed it. One of the questions asked was:

"Would you accept an offer of a right hand seat position?"

My reply was:

"No, I would under no circumstances take a right seat position. I am currently a captain and would like to remain one".

Subsequently told I had passed the selection day, and eventually did a command sim check. This was a few days after Sept 11, and of course suddenly there were a stack of 737 type-rated folk around.

Had a call from JL who offered me a right seat position- which I sadly declined, explaining to her that I couldn't afford the pay cut. I pointed out that I was still interested in EJ, and should a DE command come up, I would accept it. She then rather bizarrely told me that I couldn't have a command as I didn't have enough factored hours- complete nonsense as my assessment was for command and by both my and their calculations, I had far more than enough factored hours.

And my point is...???

Easyjet seem to getting rather arrogant with this stuff about not considering those who have previously turned them down. I can fully understand not considering those who have failed some aspect of the assessment, but not those who have declined a job offer.

Circumstances change. People have shifting ambitions and goals. For any number of reasons, a person might decline a job but have a change of circumstances that enable them to reconsider. Declining a job offer is not a personal insult (which EJ seem to take it as), it is an inability to say yes for one reason or another. Anyone who has gone to the trouble of taking part in the selection process is obviously interested in the company.

On the other hand, a colleague of mine is fond of saying "I work for money. If you want loyalty, get a dog". Pilots are not generally a loyal bunch, they go where the best opportunities are until they settle down and their career path is dictated by other considerations, like kids and houses. Most EJ pilots would probably move if offered a better job- as in any job market, the main factors are money and quality of life.

I would have liked to have worked for EJ, and I don't think I was being unreasonable in holding out for a command- they are still looking for DE captains where I live. What attracted me was the Southwest ethos, but it seems that EJ have just picked out the bits of the Southwest model that suit them, and discarded the rest. Sadly, it doesn't work like that.

The sort of petulance that leads to this "If you turned us down, we are going to return the favour by not re-considering you" behaviour is highly unprofessional. The professional HR person will look for the right staff, and patiently wait until they are ready to work for them. That way, you get the right people, not just the ones that know how to press the right buttons. Also, I detest being handed reasons and excuses that are patently untrue.

I know I will end up getting a better (next) job than EJ, but it is a missed opprotunity- for them, as well as for me.

9th Aug 2002, 07:50
easyJet seems to have the most unskilled staff I have ever come accross at check in. They are untrained and unable individuals who seem to make up rules as they go along.
The Airline programme has worked against them so well because they seem to be WANTING to show the world their failings. I think that the recruitment department are moulded from the same caliber as they seem to have employed a number of pilots I wouldn't employ in a garage!
Their downfall has already begun when they started to lose sight of the product, the size of the company and the 'manageability' of so many people. They are not geared up for huge business as they are now cancelling flights due to staff shortages, but arrogantly unwilling to recruit the right people either. What a bood* mess.

9th Aug 2002, 09:01
This from today's The Times......

August 09, 2002

EasyJet 'is stretched to limit', airline boss admits
By Ben Webster, Transport Correspondent

EUROPE’S biggest budget airline has admitted that its pilots and cabin crew are under severe pressure because the airline does not have enough trained staff to cope with its record-breaking growth.
EasyJet plans to cancel some flights from next week to try to recover some control over its schedule.

Letters to pilots from Vilhelm Hahn-Petersen, the operations director, which have been leaked to The Times, describe how easyJet is struggling with “severe disruption”.

“It is very clear that the current situation cannot continue,” Mr Hahn-Petersen wrote on Wednesday.

“Right now it feels soul destroying and the bottom line is we can now conclude that the 60 per cent growth coupled with four new crew bases and lots of new routes has stretched us significantly.

“The combination of volume and complexity in the summer schedule has stretched us to the limit. I recognise that we need to scale back slightly to recreate stability.”

Mr Hahn-Petersen said he understood “the frustrations and concerns of all crew”.

The Luton-based airline, which bought rival Go for £374 million last week, has set itself a huge expansion target to satisfy financial markets and stop Ryanair from reclaiming the number one spot in Europe. On Wednesday, while Mr Hahn-Petersen was writing to pilots about the airline’s difficulties, easyJet directors and managers were boasting about the 62 per cent rise in passengers last month. In a letter dated July 5, Mr Hahn-Petersen wrote that he could “recognise the strain everyone has been under” and would have more staff trained by August.

But on Sunday, easyJet cancelled 19 flights because it did not have enough staff or back-up aircraft when two planes developed technical problems. Thousands of passengers were delayed by several hours and many abandoned their journeys or flew home on Monday.

The airline tried to blame air traffic control delays but it emerged that British Airways, which had five times as many flights that day, had not cancelled any flights because of air traffic control.

One easyJet pilot contacted The Times expressing his concern that the airline’s uncontrolled expansion would lead to an accident because crew were disillusioned and exhausted. “I have repeatedly told managers the situation has become dangerous but their only concern is profits,” he said.

“They have pushed staff to the limits and now we are seeing the consequences. It would be terrible if it took a crash to force them to rein back on this breakneck expansion.”

An easyJet spokesman said: “I’m alarmed if one of our pilots is saying these things. We have worked our pilots incredibly hard and made great demands on them in the past two months. We are negotiating with them over pay and they have rejected our first offer.”

He said a new roster design- ed to improve efficiency had resulted in crew being in the wrong place. Building work at Luton was also causing problems. But he denied that any of the difficulties had resulted in safety being compromised.

9th Aug 2002, 09:11
I’d take a job with EJ in a hart beat had I a current type rating on a 737. And still I have to agree with 126.9. After having blown more money than I had on flight training and getting up to snuff for an airline, I was looking for a flying job with the banks breathing down my neck, a very uncomfortable position to be in as most of you probably know. I did actually get an offer rather soon but the pay was so low that there was no way to sustain life. For a better paying job I would have had to spend more money i.e. “We’d take you guy, IF you can come up with a type rating”. So for me, however sadly, the case was clear – no cash, no job and no live.
My point is we spend a lot of time and money to achieve a required status on our own, without the support of the carriers. When we are entering the market, we find an industry which is not really compensating those efforts, in the contrary are making it rather unpleasant. As much as we want to fly; our obligations require us to turn a buck or two for the bankers too.
Yes, I work for money and the best offer gets my approval, which by the way is not any different than what the airlines (EZY et-al) do; the best candidate gets the job is that simple.

9th Aug 2002, 09:38
Okay, I'm going to be controversial. Im not usually, and some might say its easy for me to be as I have a job.

Anyway, this is what I think. Yes it may be short-sighted of ezy to not look at you again. Yes it may be unfair, but unfortuately, life is not fair. It is ezy's "train set" and they shall play with it how they like, whether they be right or wrong !!

126.9 (and others), why does ezy 'owe' you a job just because you have hours and experience. Nothing personal, but in jobs in other industries, just because you have experience doesnt mean youll get the job, and I can see their point of view of wanting people that are committed to ezy. Yes this may be unfair on a few who were stuck between a rock and a hard place, but they made a policy and stuck to it. If it is wrong and they remain short of crews it may well change !!

***Taking cover for flames***

9th Aug 2002, 10:10
Let's get a couple of facts straight here.

1. Who ever says that the standard of pilots within eJ is low " I wouldn't employ them in a garage" is talking from a wealth of inexperience. I have been flying since the '50s and with many many differnt airlines. Take it from me the standard of training and competence within the Company is high.

2. A company spokesman is absolutely correct when he/she says that they (the management) are in talks with the pilots over salary. Their offer wait for it..........1%. Take this with the fact that 40 managers have awarded themslves a bonus totalling £10,000,000.

Not pretty but factual.

Buster the Bear
9th Aug 2002, 10:12
easyJet cuts flights to ease expansion pressure

Thursday August 8, 10:49 PM EDT

LONDON, Aug 9 (Reuters) - Europe's biggest budget airline easyJet said on Thursday it would cut about four flights a day to take pressure off staff and avoid scheduling glitches that led to 28 cancellations in July during rapid expansion.

Word of the move came in a letter to pilots from operations director Vilhelm Hahn-Petersen which said the company's 62 percent passenger growth in July had caused "severe disruption" which could not continue, easyJet said.

"This is not a big scaleback...it's in terms of writing to all your staff, saying thanks, it's been difficult, what are we going to do," an easyJet spokesman said.

As of next week, the Luton-based airline said it planned to cancel four or so flights on routes with low loads. EasyJet operates about 250 flights a day.

The move comes after July cancellations affected around 3,600 of the 1.08 million passengers the airline carried that month.

Budget carriers use fast turnarounds between an aircraft's arrival and departure to cut costs and undercut traditional carriers on short routes.

The speed of their turnaround can make them vulnerable to cancellations when technical or staffing problems occur.

EasyJet blamed July cancellations on problematic British air traffic control, unserviceable aircraft, a new roster for aircrews and problems due to work on Luton airport.

"Occasionally people get things wrong, we had a bad July," the spokesman said.

EasyJet's record-breaking expansion comes as it competes with Ryanair (RYA) to maintain its top spot in Europe.

The pressure put on pilots to meet schedules and achieve rapid growth recently brought claims from one unnamed British air traffic controller that safety could be put at risk.

Industry analysts say budget airlines have an excellent safety record but admit there is a fine balance between a quick, cheap, rapidly expanding service and safety.

On Friday The Times newspaper quoted one easyJet pilot who said the airline's expansion would lead to an accident because crews were disillusioned and exhausted.

"I'd refute absolutely any allegation that we're growing too fast and putting growth and therefore profits before safety." the easyJet spokesman said. "It's been a very difficult month for them, and we accept that some of our crews might be slightly disillusioned."

The spokesman said the "subtext" to the pilot's complaint might be current pay negotiations. Pilots have rejected the first offer put to them by the company.

©2002 Reuters Limited.

9th Aug 2002, 10:35
Steve Moody:

Get a grip. Your airline is an absolute catastrophe to work for as a pilot by all accounts. Your "middle management" are staggeringly average in my opinion having met them.

Progressive? Let's see how you progress thru this current PR disaster. Absolute fiasco.You don't have enough crew yet you treat people like sh?t! Good plan Ray and Joyce .

FS 2002: I don't agree with you at all. 126.9 has a point, he has accepted he has probably burnt his bridges, so stop shooting the guy.

eJ are having some serious problems and I bet they revisit their arrogant "we won't look again type attitude" in the future.

Quite frankly if eJ are the best, why do people leave and why are all their pilot's moaning?

Steve, answers please!

Eff Oh
9th Aug 2002, 11:22
Tell us exactly how do you know that easyJet are so bad?? Have you ever worked there?? Also from what it looks like it doesnt sound any better or worse than our present company. If there is anything that I have learned in my short aviation career it is that all airlines have the same problems, just different uniforms. I have friends at easyJet, based north of the border who actually........wait for it.......enjoy it! But perhaps anything outside of Luton or Gatwick doesn't count?? You need to take a long hard look at your own company Tailscrape and remember how you have been treated in the past year! Take off those slime green glasses, and replace them with nice new Thomas Cook ones. :cool:
The future's bright. The future's Orange. (Oh wait that was different company.) :D

9th Aug 2002, 11:55
teletext today states more flights to be canx this weekend due changes in new rota. Spokeman states that new rota is "rubbish", and is being changed. Can anyone tell me why it is rubbish, and if so how it was not spotted until after introduction.

9th Aug 2002, 12:08
Maybe the eJ pilots can't be induced to turn up for work because they've found out that after reversing into Go, they'll suddenly have to pay for their own car-park passes and bring their own crew meals. Oh, and continue to buy your own uniform. (And just been confirmed yesterday that the Go people will be going onto the vastly inferior eJ Staff Travel deal, rather than the other way round). Morale? What morale?

9th Aug 2002, 13:20
Apparently easyJet can't be short of pilots because they have been turning down applicants. So said a BBC News reporter on Radio 5 this lunch-time, having read the thread on easy's flight cancellations. Clearly if you're short of pilots, anyone will do!!

Another quote from the same bulletin: "It can't be hard to write a rota".


9th Aug 2002, 13:30
Can anyone tell me who you have to sh!g to get an interview with EJ ?? I applied a while back, I'm type rated on the B737 and live in Scotland. Any offers of advice are much appreciated.;)

9th Aug 2002, 14:18
Eff Oh,

I also have friends in eJ and quite frankly they are not enjoying it at all.

I am entitled to my opinions as much as you are.

jmc have treated us badly, granted they have. However they are still a whole way better then easyJet.

I however am leaving jmc for pastures new, so don't worry about me.

I was treated very badly at interview by an easyJet Captain. All he did was slag jmc off to my face and basically denigrated my flying and company.

That is why I hate them so much. I would not go there for love or money. He was such a Twit I left the interview early. At my choice. There you have it.

9th Aug 2002, 14:30
I don't understand the childish mentality some of you guys seem to have... I am engaged by eJ, had a very fair selection procedure.
The fact that eJ is short of pilots is only because they made a mistake stopping training during the summer. As from September eJ will start again with trainings for newcomers.
It is not because you have a lot of candidates, that you can accept them all at once. Everybody knows that you need some training by the company before you can fly for them, even rated pilots need to fly according to the companies SOP's .

I do agree with eJ policy not to accept people who turned down their offer. I know that a minority of these people deserve a new chance, but you have to draw a line somewhere... What about the people who didn't have the chance yet to get an interview? There are a lot of applications at eJ, I don't know the exact number, but it appears to be huge... If everybody just gets one chance for an interview, even then it will take a lot of time before everybody attended a weekend in Luton. So if you had your chance before, shut up, and give people who REALLY want to fly for eJ a chance of getting into this company, because those are the people who will make eJ a great company...

Concerning the loyalty: I am loyal to a company, and I don't bark though... eJ is my second company, and I stayed with my first company untill it's bankruptcy... Maybe I am naieve on this matter, but hey, then again, I am a teamplayer, trying to solve 'problems' in my team, not running from them. In the point of view of the company, they need loyal pilots who are willing to go through some sh*t sometimes for their company. Every pilot who runs away costs another training for a newcomer, which is profit you take away from the company, thus your colleagues.

Last item: cancellation of flights, people being unhappy, sit in in Nice, ... well, all of us adults have had some growing pains, same applies for eJ. If you can't understand this, well maybe you still have to go through your adolocence.


I my written English isn't perfect, well I don't care, you understood it !!

9th Aug 2002, 14:35
Thanks for a very interesting debate chaps - especially the pov from a pax.

I think easyJet will ride this out easily. Businessmen may be reluctant to take their chances regarding punctuality but, as with everything in life, you get what you pay for. Meanwhile at the other end of the market - my neighbour flew to Edinburgh and back in a day just for lunch with a friend. She accepts it's cheap and cheerful and was happy to put up with any chances of disruption (she was hoping for a night's delay...). The people who are discovering this new bus service are not going to go away. And the TV programme IS good PR. Nothing sells on telly like a bit of shadenfreud (sp??).

Sorry I can't contribute more regarding the recruitment lottery.

9th Aug 2002, 14:58
Clearly the decision not to reconsider pilots who previously turned down an offer with EZY has not been a popular one! It wasn't an easy (no pun intended) one to make either but was made after careful consideration by the Flight Ops mgnt team (not HR). Whilst we obviously appreciate that everyone has the right to make the decision that suits them best in terms of their employment we also have the right to decide what we believe is best for the company. In this case we were concerned that we were being seen by some people as an 'open option' for the future or even worse a 'contingency plan' if all else failed. So, this decision was not made out of arrogance but merely as a way of doing what we felt was best for the company at the time. However, we will consider individual cases as necessary and we do review our policies and change them if we feel they are no longer appropriate.
In terms of the EZY/Go recruitment process, the Flight Ops teams have already agreed that we will continue with the exisiting assessment process. This is because ther are strong similarities in the processes used by both of us and we are happy with the results we achieve. The results being high calibre professional pilots who receive first class training.
Finally, Floppy Link I do owe you an apology for the delay in responding to you and will e-mail you later, you have not been forgotton - honest!

9th Aug 2002, 15:31
The issue here is the functionality of the rostering system
and migration of resources from a legacy system?

This is tricky stuff indeed sympathies to all concerned - it
will be fixed - I have been there.

9th Aug 2002, 16:47
Todat's BBC web news carries an article on EZY: "Occasionally, people get things wrong, we had a bad July," a spokesman said. "This is not a big scale back. It's in terms of writing to all your staff, saying 'thanks, it's been difficult, what are we going to do'," he added.

The spokesman said the problem was not about staff shortages. "We have introduced a new rostering system which is causing us all manner of problems. "It's a rubbish system and we are changing it."

The company have publicaly apologised, announced a change in plan and, therefore, given themselves a public target which - if they miss - they will get hammered for.

If that is not a good result, I don't what is!!

Dirty Harry
9th Aug 2002, 17:27
I have read through the posts here and have to say that I agree with the majority vote of arrogance. Many very good pilots are interviewed and rejected by easyJet, which in my opinion is a very poor reflection on their pilot HR department. It seems that the high rejection rate of pilots by easyJet is finally starting to catch them up, wait till all the Go guys starting leaving in numbers. Maybe JL and her team should take a long look at their approach.

A poor manager is one who never admits he/she is wrong !!!!

Notso Fantastic
9th Aug 2002, 18:29
EJ and crewing/roster problems have made the ITV National News. Without getting involved in the slagging side of things, I'm just curious what this 'awful' new rostering system is. On the one hand, the crews are 'overworked' and 'exhausted', and on the other the roster system presumably is not delivering the goods (where they are needed). So what exactly has fallen down?

9th Aug 2002, 18:42
Booked on as PAX Monday 12th ,Rang Orange HQ to get full clarification on latest media offering. Helpful chap delivered a full current situation statement and to my ears made all the right noises.Heres Hoping

Steve Moody
9th Aug 2002, 18:44

You strike me as a very sad person, possibly one of those whom CRM training is aimed at? Your posts are bitter and twisted, and seem to show a inability to relate to anyone else's opinion. I have to say that I guess I'd not like flying with you and suspect that the Captain interviewing you saw a similar view and was pushing you accordingly.

One thing that has struck me greatly since joining easyJet nearly 2 years ago has been the quality of the pilots who do get through the selection process. With one single exception I've found all of the FO's I fly with excellent, proof I guess of the selection process. And even that one seemed to be having an 'off day' because I flew with him/her again some months later and was pleasantly surprised.

Anyone who knows me from ATC/a BA clone north of London/easyJet will understand that I am not a management toady. I am critical, occasionally very, of what I see as management failings. I have been so to my Base Captain and Ground Ops Manager in the last fortnight. So when I commend middle management at easyJet it is for me a considerable accolade. I wish I could be so supportive of those responsible for the total mess made recently of Rostering and Crewing .... though at last they seem to be getting the message we've been trying to get across this last couple of months.

So to your points:

".... [easyJet] an absolute catastrophe to work for as a pilot..." Not true. The last few weeks have been pretty bad granted, but mistakes have been acknowledged and we're assured changes are in hand. This reaction would have been unthinkable in my last Company. Generally working for easyJet is great, and I stand by my statement that they're the best I've ever worked for. How could you know from outside, except by rumour and competitive spite?

I agree with you that the current situation is a disaster, however the basics are good, [see above] there is the prospect that we can return to the pre Carmen situation and that lessons have been learnt by those who should have known better.

I never claimed that easyJet are the best, only the best I've experienced [though.... some might say the others must have been pretty awful!]

If you are so high and mighty, all world knowing that you can slag off easyJet from outside with total confidence that you know best why can't you say who you are, why do you hide behind a fictional name?

Hope your new company sees through you soon.

Steve Moody.

9th Aug 2002, 18:54
Well at least you chaps have been fortunate enough to have been selected to go through the interview process!

My chronological age is 51 and I am sitting here with circa 14,000 hours (9,000 on jet), previously rated on B737 variants and A320 with ten years in training!

My crime? Owing to personal circumstances I have not flown a big shiny jet since 1995. Just getting a look in at the interview would be a bonus!

Wing Commander Fowler
9th Aug 2002, 20:18

whilst I agree with most of what you are saying here I do feel the need to take you to task on one point and I quote:

I know that a minority of these people deserve a new chance, but you have to draw a line somewhere...

It is not appropriate to "draw a line" regarding a situation such as this, quite simply because people fail selection processes by differing degrees or turn down a job offer for many different reasons (some of which are quite reasonable). This being a situation "Cruella" appears to have hoisted on board and acknowledges here that they will be addressing. BTW Cruella, the mere fact that you ARE treating each individual case on merit would appear to me to make the letter/email sent out a waste of effort serving only to upset the recipients as by now I'm sure you can see.....

Finally, I feel I have to say that if indeed the company are taking the attitude "well you didn't want to work for us then so why should we take you now?" towards those who turned down a job offer - then you may as well stop recruiting now for good, since to date you were not good enough for those that will be applying in the future! If you were good enough for them they would all be with you now.

Finally, finally........ Cruella, you made an interesting statement which I now quote -

In terms of the EZY/Go recruitment process, the Flight Ops teams have already agreed that we will continue with the exisiting assessment process. This is because ther are strong similarities in the processes used by both of us and we are happy with the results we achieve.

How would you reconcile the fact that there are Pilots working for each of the airlines that failed the others respective selection processes (or perhaps comitted the heinous crime of rejecting a job offer)? Amusing that you each now inherit these "misfits".....

Buster the Bear
9th Aug 2002, 21:43
Fri 09 Aug 2002

easyJet admit new roster system is 'rubbish' as more flights are cancelled

According to easyJet’s operations director, the airline is struggling to cope with its rapid growth and needs to cut back its schedule ‘to recreate stability’ for pilots and cabin crew.
In a 7 August letter to easyJet’s pilots, which was leaked to the Times, Vilhelm Hahn-Petersen said: ‘It is very clear that the current situation cannot continue. Right now it feels soul destroying and the bottom line is we can now conclude that the 60% growth coupled with four new crew bases and lots of new routes has stretched us significantly.
‘The combination of volume and complexity in the summer schedule has stretched us to the limit. I recognise that we need to scale back slightly to recreate stability.’
Last Sunday, easyJet cancelled 19 of its 250 daily flights, because ‘it did not have enough staff or back-up aircraft when two planes developed technical problems’ reports the Times.
However, the airline blamed the cancellations on a new roster system, which had resulted in crews being in the wrong place. It said that to avoid a repetition of Sunday’s problems it would cut some of next week’s services but let passengers know of the schedule changes well in advance.
‘We shall be announcing shortly what flights will not be operating next week,’ an easyJet spokeman told Ananova.com. ‘They will be ones on which very few people will be travelling.
‘This is not about staff shortages,’ he added. ‘We have introduced a new rostering system which is causing us all manner of problems. It’s a rubbish system and we are changing it…We have also suffered from delays caused by air traffic control and from problems [with building work] at Luton Airport.’
However, an easyJet pilot told the Times he was concerned the airline’s rapid expansion would lead to an accident through crew fatigue. ‘I have repeatedly told managers the situation has become dangerous but their only concern is profits,’ he said.
‘They have pushed staff to the limits and now we are seeing the consequences. It would be terrible if it took a crash to force them to rein back on this breakneck expansion.’
On Wednesday, easyJet announced a 61.7% year-on-year increase in July passengers, while its takeover of Go, which was completed last week, will make it Europe’s biggest budget carrier.

9th Aug 2002, 22:33
Easy is my third airline and I AM enjoying it. It has some great attributes (nice crews, new shiny jets, lots of flying hours etc) and like all the other airlines I have worked for it has its downsides too (rosters, rosters rosters!)

Yes, there are problems right now but it was steady in May and it will be steady again soon if the management really pull with the crews. Carmen is history......:D

As for the applications - it took me 3 applications and 2 years to get the job so hang in there if this is what you want. Its not everyone's cup of tea but then neither is BA or Air2000 or anyone else.

PS I hope I am good enough to work in a garage!;)

Land After
10th Aug 2002, 00:58
From where I’m sitting (nowhere orange) and viewing this thread, the eJ selection process seems to be working pretty well, inside there’s a set of team playing, supportive, pilots who agree that life isn’t perfect, but are prepared to work with the company through the current, ahem, difficulties.

Outside – well just look at the comments of some of those that didn’t get in. Maybe there’s a reason? Just because you have the technical skills doesn’t mean that you have the right personality for a given organisation – that’s why some people prefer long haul, some charters and some even fly freight by choice.

The purpose of any selection procedure is to find someone to fit the role – this includes the culture. People may be disappointed if they didn’t get it, but plenty inside seem to be happy, so something must be working? I know which set of individuals I’d like to be playing with my expensive train set.

Having seen some of the vitriol on this thread, it’s not hard to see why some didn’t make it past the psychometrics. Get over it and go for another job – if your skills are that good and eJ are fools to let you go, you should easily walk into another position.

Wig Wag
10th Aug 2002, 07:40
Financial Times. London 10 August:-

Pilots make safety call at low-cost airlines
By Matthew Jones and Andrea Felsted
Published: August 9 2002 13:42 | Last Updated: August 9 2002 20:47

British pilots are to demand higher safety standards at low-cost airlines after EasyJet, Europe's largest low-cost carrier, admitted its rapid expansion was stretching the airline to its limits.

The British Air Line Pilots' Association said on Friday it had requested a meeting with Ray Webster, EasyJet chief executive, to seek better working conditions.

EasyJet pilots have complained that safety standards are being compromised by the group's rapid expansion, which saw passenger numbers grow by more than 60 per cent year-on-year last month.

A Balpa official said pilots were also worried about other airlines. "Among a lot of low-cost airline pilots there is a quiet concern that they are being overstretched and that safety could suffer," he said.

"We have also been told of concerns among pilots at Ryanair, although Ryanair does not recognise union membership."

Ryanair said its pilots were not under pressure and that it operated to an approved flight-time limitation system whereby no pilot could fly more than 900 hours in any year. It had no t cancelled any flights because of pilot shortages and had no plans to do so.

EasyJet said it would have to cut four to six flights a day after being forced to cancel 19 flights last Sunday, on top of 28 in July. This followed the introduction of a new flight-crew roster, which the airline admitted was "rubbish".

Vilhelm Hahn-Petersen, the group's operations director, has written to pilots acknowledging that they are being overworked and that "the current situation cannot continue".

"The combination of volume and complexity in the summer schedule has stretched us to the limit. I recognise that we need to scale back slightly to recreate stability," he said.

The concerns came days after EasyJet continued its aggressive expansion plan by completing the £374m ($570m) takeover of Go, its smaller UK rival.

EasyJet said its summer service had been hampered by air traffic control problems and building work at Luton airport, but its ability to cope with these problems was hindered by the n ew rostering system. This will be dropped in favour of the previous system.

EasyJet added that the four to six flights it is cancelling - a small percentage of the 250 it flies a day - would be removed from the schedule until October.

"This is a punctuality issue, not a safety issue," EasyJet said. "This is caused by a rostering system. It has got nothing to do with safety or expansion."

An EasyJet official said its pilots were trying to raise concerns in the press to win better pay deals following the merger. "We refute absolutely that we are compromising safety - we would rather cancel all flights than reduce safety levels," he added.

Dominic Edridge, transport analyst at Commerzbank, said: "Low-cost airlines have almost had too many opportunities in the last year and it's difficult to sustain growth at those levels."

one four sick
10th Aug 2002, 08:04
I am not going to engage in a discussion about - for or against easyJet.
I will only say this: I am an outsider and I have been watching this orange thing growing and developing. The thing is it has reached a proportion in size, beyond which it needs extraordinary talent to keep it all flowing smoothly and operating efficiently. It seems like it's lacking in that department and the all too familiar slogan: "Victim of it's own success" should now replace the "The webs favourite airline" sentence on it's fuselages!

10th Aug 2002, 09:56
Steve Moody:

I think you will find that you have a problem. You are the one engaging in personal attacks and being immature. If you cannot handle people's points of view, put your head back in the sand.

If you want to know who I am, do some research. I am not obliged to tell you or anyone else.

I have explained my point of view.

How does it feel to work for a company who belittled another outfit and then bragged about 25% growth? Only then it starts falling apart? Great feeling I would imagine.

You display the same traits as your lovely Training Captain interviewer. A blind obsession with slagging people personally...........all very mature Steve.

No offence to you Steve, but chill out man. You will need to remain relaxed with horror of a roster you no doubt have!!

Oh, and by the way: If you did not realise this was an anonymous place, perhaps you should think again. Or maybe you couldn't understand the concept?

This whole place works on anonymity!!!!! Sometimes posters may not be as they seem. That is the whole point of it!!!!!

Brakes to Park
10th Aug 2002, 10:29
"Victim of it's own success"

They can't put that on the aircraft mate.

FYI it would have to be "Victim of its own success".

Chilli Ray
10th Aug 2002, 11:37
Of course pilots look at easyjet in terms as 2nd option..a contingency plan. How many pilots have you employed over the last year who were made redundant and needed a job. Do you seriously think they would have been flocking to your door if they hadn't had too. How many have you offered courses to in the new year that are just hedging their bets. Probably many of them.

10th Aug 2002, 12:04
I must correct one earlier posting about this company having some remote similarity to Southwest.There is no similarity whatsoever.The tickets on SWA are low-cost...but the airline is anything but.Crew loyalty is very high and has been for years.Imitation is flattering(and I hope EJ improves into a worthwhile product) but its a very poor imitation.

10th Aug 2002, 13:23

easy/ryan etc are looking for guys who can take shed loads of pressure,and solve problems for them.

if they play good guy/bad guy (girl) at the interview stage and succeed in rattling your cage,what are you going to do when the s@@t really hits the fan?

you can't throw the toys out at fl 350....

anyway good luck with your new job.


carlos vandango
10th Aug 2002, 13:26
regarding this idea that Easyjet are reviewing the cases of previous successful applicants who were unable to accept the initial offer, does anyone know of a case where this has happened. Anybody been phoned lately and asked to come to Luton after all? What about Floppy Link..any progress?
Didn't think so:rolleyes:

Groundhog Night
10th Aug 2002, 14:00
Easy are taking a hammering in the press and the top level management especially deserve every bit of it, it might just change attitudes enough to allow them to move forward.

My opinions were not reached in only two years!

Steve I know you are being positive but many of the longer term pilots have heard all the rhetoric from the company time and time again.There was no need for things to get this bad, and as we are now a major player it cannot be swept aside /covered up, as has happened in the past. Lets hope we have all learned from this unfortunate episode.

10th Aug 2002, 15:48

Thanks for your best wishes. Much appreciated.

I do hope that you can sort of see my point. What this Trainer did was shameful. He actually put another company down to my face, hence my bad feeling! That is unprofessional, not just playing good cop bad cop!

I know that ALL pilots in eJ are highly skilled and very competent, because they wouldn't employ fools. However, as in any airline there are a few twits.

This chap was one, and I have had this corroborated by others who have flown with him!

I believe the problem is this:

eJ have (or had) a high profile chairman. He makes a lot of noise (some good some bad). This flows down to some idiots who try and be "Stelios", except they are not him, and have not got the right character to be him....so it doesn't sit right I am afraid.

Anyhow, if you guys are happy that's great. If we all wanted to work for eJ, very few of us would have jobs now would we!!

Good luck to you Zoru.......and Steve Moody!

Few Cloudy
10th Aug 2002, 16:16
Here's a little story that might fit here -

Five years ago I was accepted by easy but also by a foreign carrier. I took the foreign job - let down #1.

Two years later I re-applied to easy and , following a re-interview, was re-accepted. At the same time I had what appeared to be a good offer from another company, which would have enabled me to live at home. Again I sent a letter of apology to easy - let down #2.

Two weeks later, having found out that the "good offer"from the other company was full of worms, I re-applied, tail between legs, to easy, fully expecting a curt answer. The result was a course "starting next monday" and a three year span with easy.

I found that the training and pilots were as least as good as those I had encountered in an 8 year RAF, 25 year Swissair and 3 year career with later companies. They were very good to me when I had a health problem and I felt goodwill towards them in return.

That's just one man's story and there are of course some very different ones. Work there was always hard and personnel matters were not the best on a daily basis - that's what happens in an expanding airline and is to be expected. I hope that the problems will be surmounted and that the show will be back on the road before acrimony spoils things completely.

Few Cloudy
10th Aug 2002, 16:49
FO Janeaway,

Nope, the Swiss outfit was quite a seperate entity at that time with no chance of a base change. As I said it's just one man's story. Down on the easy site some promises are being made - I just hope it isn't too little, too late.

FO Janeway
10th Aug 2002, 17:02
Thanks for not shooting me down for my little post.
Happy landings!


10th Aug 2002, 20:51
Reading the thread about easyJet being short of crews I wonder if their delusional belief in an 'orange culture' and trying to match potential crews to this has handicaped their own empolyment process?

Who belives in this 'orange' crap anyway?

10th Aug 2002, 20:58
IMHO - and I don't work for EasyJet, they are like any other organisation that is starting to suffer the effects of size. At least they had the b***s to come out in public and say they got the roster system wrong. That takes guts when reputations are at stake. Aside from this I must say that I am impressed at the sudden increase in the media profile of BALPA. Saw the organisation mentioned in numerous articles in the papers today -I guess that might be a result of the change of leader.

10th Aug 2002, 21:57
All I can say is I agree with all of you in different ways. For instance, if BA offered me and at the same time easyJet did too I'd take BA. Then, lets say BA made me redundant, and I applied to easyJet, I would expect not to be allowed into the airline. They know I would rather choose other airlines over them already, which shows that if my contract with them eventually runs out, I could always very easily want to switch back to BA. I would love to fly either way, but BA are easier on their pilots and their pilots are respected by the entire staff at BA. What is sad is that if what you guys have said is true above then it shows that easyJet dont even have the courtesy or decency to tell you that either they made a mistake or you arent what they were looking for after all. This would be dissapointing, but at least they have told you that there is no need in messing around with them lettting you look for more jobs. I really have nothing against low-cost airlines, but I think they really should ease up on their pilots, otherwise soon, something in my opinion will go very wrong.
Mark Wilson

11th Aug 2002, 11:07
The report in the Daily Telegraph yesterday (not one of my usual reads, but just happened to pick up a copy!) said that the new rostering system had pilots, cabin crew and aircraft all working to different patterns so that the pilots and aircraft could be in Luton but cabin crew still coming in from Barcelona.

Hmmm...sounds suspiciously like Carmen (also known as Carnage) from BA. BA only cope with Carmen by building in so much spare time into their flying programme and crew turnrounds that it rarely has any effect. easy have obviously tried to use Carmen but without building in the productivity-munching punctuality buffers that BA put into their programme.

Carmen looks great on paper - optimised crew numbers - but is completely impractical in real life as it takes no account of the disruption caused by exactly this problem. It is not uncommon at BA to have an aircraft coming in from Stockholm, Captain & FO from Frankfurt, CSD from Amsterdam and four more cabin crew from Madrid all meeting up to operate a flight to Munich. Optimised crew numbers are great until one of the four flights which you need to arrive on time to achieve an on-time departure on your Munich flight goes wrong. But BA, being BA, do not recognise the extra airport standby crews and disruption as a cost to be set against the allegedly optimised crew numbers and so still have not realised that this system is costing them a fortune.

In summary, methinks BA could learn a thing or two - i.e. their short-haul rostering system is rubbish and that you can't run a low-cost airline from it, as easyJet have found to their horror.

Well done easyJet for having the guts to stand up and admit they have got it wrong. The true test will now be what they do to fix it and restore confidence from those passengers who have been affected by the whole debacle.

Rufrix Heavywash
11th Aug 2002, 12:12
The self righteous arrogance of many of the EJ pilots (Steve Moody etc) on this forum leads me to conclude that many of them have very short memories. Only 4 years ago EJ would literally take anyone they could get and consequently got what they deserved. I know of 2 guys who left us to join EJ at that time – both were F/Os who had been assessed by our company as “unsuitable for command” – one for “attitude problems” and the other for simple incompetence. Although neither had any command time, they joined EJ as direct entry captains. These are the same sort of guys that now preach on this forum (and I suspect on the EJ selection panel) about “quality pilots”, “the orange culture” and the fact that “easyJet can pick and choose”. I wonder how far they would get if they applied now?.

Might I suggest that anyone going for an EJ interview takes the opportunity to ask the question -

“Tell me captain, what exactly is your background?”.

I doubt you will get an honest answer but it might help stem the arrogance coming out of this outfit if the “quality” of the very pilots conducting the interviews, sim checks and training was put under the spotlight.

11th Aug 2002, 12:38
Spot on Rufrix Heavywash.
They were paying £25K Golden Hello to each person that joined them at that time, knowing that otherwise these people would have gone elsewhere - better! So those preachers about quality personnel at eJ, try and defend this one.
I'll just spell it out to those that don't get it - easyJet took ANYONE in the year before 9/11 and they are the captains and management and the interviewers of today. What a load of youknowhat.

11th Aug 2002, 15:49
just a point about computerised rostering systems; I work on BA's 'ATLAS' system for a short time but this was so unweildly that it was eventually scrapped I believe. At the time they were trialing it on Euro gatwick (I think!), does anybody here know the eventual outcome of this work and is the easyJet problem related to that product?

Stan Woolley
11th Aug 2002, 16:43

I think easy only gave direct entry commands to FO's in the early days, up to (guessing) early 1999.

Certainly at the time of the 25/30k golden hellos (early 2001) I believe it was only available to 737 Captains.

11th Aug 2002, 16:55
Good point Flightrider - it does look good on paper, but as you point out, as soon as it goes wrong, it does so big time.

c.f. with an operationally driven programme - yes, it may look more expensive on paper, and utilisation is less, BUT....when we had all the ATC disruption a few months back, easy had to cancel 44 flights - our airline cancelled none.

As you say, no cost is factored in for the "******ation" factor.

On the plus side, at least they are coming out openly and admitting it is "rubbish" - I hope the right decisions are made to correct it.

(I can't believe Pprune doesn't let me write bugg3r!)

Rufrix Heavywash
11th Aug 2002, 17:55

The hiring of (sometimes dubious) F/Os as captains may well have been a short lived and misguided policy but the fact remains that many got in. In fact, I suspect many are still there – where else could they go ?. Indeed some are probably now in positions of authority. It is worrying enough that they are in charge of a commercial jet aircraft let alone in a position where they are tasked with the selection, training and promotion of others.

I have nothing against EJ as such. However, just like many others in the mainstream industry, I find the recent chest puffing posturing of some people in the Low Cost sector tedious, arrogant and short sighted. In a recent interview, the boss of Ryanair admitted that any serious accident in the Low Cost sector could well bring the whole thing crashing down. What would happen if such an accident could be partly or wholly attributable to the recruitment policies of the likes of easyJet. And lets face it – we all know that one of the LCA’s is going to have a crash sooner or later.

Stan Woolley
11th Aug 2002, 20:04

I can't comment specifically on others but I joined Easy direct to the left seat having previously never had a jet command. IMHO there are some very capable operators who did the same.

I've been there for a few years and last year turned down a 757 command elsewhere.( Proving of course that I shouldn't be anywhere near a jet!);)

11th Aug 2002, 20:33
Tend to agree with RH. I know of several pilots who went the LCA route because they had been passed over for command. My employer also had a company policy that staff were not to use certain LCA's for positioning flights because their standards were inadequate.

Rufrix Heavywash
11th Aug 2002, 20:50
I'm not suggesting that all the F/Os who joined EJ as captains are below par - just the two jokers who left here in '98. It is however a natural assumption that if EJ were willing to take them, then they probably took others of the same caliber. The point I was making is simple - the arrogance of the EJ recruitment policy in 2002 is astounding given their past record. Equally, the chest beating by a group of people previously unable to attain a mainline career or unable to progress to captain is hypocritical and short sighted in the extreme.

As for the safety implications of the low cost model - we'll just have to wait and see.

11th Aug 2002, 21:21
How many of you have experienced the reciprocal arrangement where airlines interview you, in case they get a contract or have increased requirement? Their happy to pass you at the interview, and keep you hanging on for months, only to reject your services if things don't go as they expected. We've all accepted that for years, easy throw the teddy as soon as any one does it to them!

11th Aug 2002, 23:06
Mmmmmmm, so glad our airline has been taken over by such a happy and efficient outfit, so looking forward to joining in the fun.:p

Few Cloudy
12th Aug 2002, 07:56
When I did my course the standards were rigorous. One of my "wingmen" was chopped during the sim phase. Two of my ex-Swissair colleagues failed the interview - one the course.

The reason for this high (pernickity?) training/selection standard isn't arrogance but rather the knowledge that, as mentioned above, a crash would be very bad for easy. Mistakes were indeed made in selection in the past and it was explained to us that Stelios himself had demanded a narrow tolerance on new selections.

As for FOs being tarred "unsuitable for command" at an early stage in a big airline - I imagine that that is the end of their career prospects unless they a) pull their socks up and b) change employer. You can't blame them for trying to improve. I have seen many pilots mature later in their careers.

12th Aug 2002, 17:43


Legal threat over easyJet flight

Passengers were offered alternate easyJet flights

A solicitor from Liverpool is threatening low-cost airline easyJet with legal action after his flight to Paris was cancelled because no crew was available.

Brian Camp claims he was ejected by security at Liverpool John Lennon Airport when he tried to advise his fellow passengers about their rights to claim compensation.

Mr Camp, who was going to France with four friends and his wife, Julie, said the group has lost up to £3,000 because of the cancellation.

He said although he and up to 100 stranded passengers were offered refunds for the flight, easyJet's response was "inadequate".

It's not been a good few weeks for us, but we're doing something about it an easyJet spokeswoman admitted.

On Monday, Mr Camp, from Wirral, told BBC News Online said: "Ninety minutes after the flight should have left, we were told it had been cancelled and that was literally it.

"We got a message saying bring your boarding cards to the desk and arrange to pick up your luggage, there was no apology from easyJet."

He said he was asked to leave immediately he advised passengers to be wary about signing away their rights to future compensation claims against the company.

He said: "All I said was 'When you get to the front, don't sign anything', at which point I was immediately asked to leave the airport by security."

An easyJet spokeswoman said however, that after the flight - EZY637 - was cancelled, staff did everything to ensure passengers were offered alternatives.

'Hotel places'

She said: "We offered passengers a refund, or to put them up in a hotel and a place on the first flight on Saturday morning from Liverpool."

Because of the delays, she explained, it meant the crew ran out of flight hours under aviation law, and attempts to find a replacement crew failed.

A new staff rostering system has also contributed to delays, she admitted, as well as air traffic control problems that were outside their control.

"It's not been a good few weeks for us, but we're doing something about it," she added.

She could not comment on Mr Camp's claims of being ejected by security.

12th Aug 2002, 17:47
Ryanair would have just kicked them out on the steet. At least easy offered them them accommodation. The complainer is an ar?e

12th Aug 2002, 17:56
OK, lets get back to the subject. The disruptions have been caused by rostering. A new system was introduced which was known to be flawed in our environment. Many experienced personel pointed this out at the time but were ignored by the rostering manager. The system proved (surprise, surprise) to not work under the EZ model. £Millions wasted. Shareholders robbed. Market should demand that heads should roll. We know which head. In the name of God, go.

Or stay, and continue to enjoy the universal loathing of your workforce.

Little Friend
12th Aug 2002, 18:56

Gave you a bit of a hard time on the coy. site-sorry about that-sort of see where you're coming from.

Please don't let esy agro and selection system upset you to the point of attacks on the standards of the aircrew.

This forum is open to the world-suggestions that we'er about to crash an aircraft due to a boardroom cockup is stupid.

Only a fool and a bad pilot could make that connection. If you feel that eJ let you down then I'm sorry-but it sound like it was the best for everyone-you may well have been unhappy on the line.

I have to speak up for the "low cost pilots" I believe that this sector has, and will produce, some excellent future leaders.

I am one of them-I know my limits and I'm proud to be so.

Our problems are many but I can distinguish between my company, my job and airmanship.

So if you can do the same you could end up flying for us-if you showed you could not-well you end up on pprune.

12th Aug 2002, 19:21
Sorry Little Friend. The research is clear and there is a lot of it. There are measurable correlations between boardroom decisions and rates of critical incidents. Only a fool would deny the connection. But note that I say RATES of critical incidents. The problem is that it is very difficult to attribute any particular critical incident to to any particular board decision. Therefore lots of linear thinkers and incompetent managers can pretend there isn't a connection.

The question is how far good airmanship can reasonably be expected to compensate for poor governance and management.

Capt PPRuNe
12th Aug 2002, 19:32
flch10000, it is petty comments such as your last one that really gives eejits a bad name. If you were priveleged to be given a jump seat ride and then you knowingly disparage the crew by making assumptions about their skills and try and do what the scumbag tabloid journos do by 'kissing and telling' then you deserve every bit of flame that is coming to you!:mad:

Either you are fully qualified B737 pilot with lots of experience and you were plugged into the comms and were fully aware of what was going on or else you are wannabe who hasn't got what it takes with FS2000 and 'think' you know what was going on but really haven't got a clue but want to sound as though you do on here.

...fiddling with the FMC obviously oblivious of how to enter a STAR into the RTE page... You make such a stupid statement and yet you obviously have no idea what you are on about yourself. If you really knew you'd have known what page a STAR is entered in or built up on, amd it isn't the RTE page.

Either edit your post or stand by to be flamed on here. I won't stand for professional pilots being put down by nobodies who are trying oneupmanship but without the qualifications to back it up! :rolleyes:

Few Cloudy
12th Aug 2002, 19:35
Spies by Gad! Russian at that - you can tell by the snow on their boots - keep out of the cockpit...

12th Aug 2002, 20:03
Look here I made one mistake RTE rather than ARRIVALS, its been a long day.

However that does not permit you to state:

"Either you are fully qualified B737 pilot with lots of experience and you were plugged into the comms and were fully aware of what was going on or else you are wannabe who hasn't got what it takes with FS2000"

Does a 737-300 rating from FSI count? Probably not in your book.
I think if you browse through my previous posts people will come to theit own conclusion on my authenticity.

Or are you the Judge and Jury?

12th Aug 2002, 20:20

Actually Danny is the judge and the jury, it is his site !

If you knew anything about fmc's you would know that the raw points and speed / hard altitudes that load into the route when selecting a star, often require modifcation, often based on crew experience, to create a more realistic LNAV and VNAV profile of the arrival.

For example, on my fmc if i select EGKK with a WILLO 3C arrival and WILLO transition, it will include the HOLLY - WILLO hold, which isnt always used, and a hard altitude of 4000' at MAY, which I normally delete as you are usually above this and it is not in the STAR.

Wee Weasley Welshman
12th Aug 2002, 20:26
Sigh. The skipper would have - what - 3,500hrs+ to have earned his seat. Are you suggesting he has those hours and passed a command selection course whilst being unsure about basic FMC operation?

It is utterly pointless to speculate upon crew proficiency between airlines. All actual practicing airline crews I know of actively abstain from doing so. Unless you are CAA flight standards personnel I suggest you do the same.

Sitting on the jumpseat without informing the crew of your relevant flying experience is an odd thing for a professional pilot to do. Your posts on this thread are an even odder thing to do.


12th Aug 2002, 20:40
Ahhh the WWW... I wondered when...

Actually this thread was merged from another thread, probably quite rightly as it was Ez related on a similar subject.

And I am not a professional pilot, but can quite happily justify my knowledge, although I agree it is tempered with a lack of any experience as such.

The fact is I know what I saw. Two Crew fiddling about with the CDUs unsure about arrival procedure operation. Two heads down was enough warning for me.

12th Aug 2002, 21:45
Can't you get rid of this t *ss *r and leave the forum for adults?

12th Aug 2002, 23:03
My, my. Such anger, I'm sure you rate highly in the CRM department.

As I stated I do not fly for a living, and thus do not qualify myself in any particular way.

However, your analogy reflects your lack of reasoning power. I'd still respect the reply of a newly qualified accountant if I were chief accountant.

As such, however meaningless a 73 rating is to you, it allows me to state my observations based upon my time spent on a line flight.

I make a statement and yet get slated for it. No dissent allowed on this board? Reminds me of some place in the 1930's, first the Guv...

Capt PPRuNe
13th Aug 2002, 03:20
flch10000, your quote: "...fiddling with the FMC obviously oblivious of how to enter a STAR into the RTE page..." and then your contradiction: "...I do not fly for a living, and thus do not qualify myself in any particular way..." are precisely why you are not qualified to make stupid observations.

The fact that you have done B737 type rating course at FSI means nothing, especially if you have absolutely no actual flying or line experience on the type. A liitle bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing and I am sure that the crew who extended the courtesy of allowing you on the jump seat regret it now because of your petty comments which have absolutely no place on here. Either you have line experience on the B737 and are VERY familiar with the FMC operation in actual, real life line operations or else you are just a petty person who fantasises you know everything and feel smug making unfounded allegations about a professional crew who DO have the real experience.

Yes, the others may be insulting you but I warned you that you would be flamed for making such stupid allegations without knowing much about what you are mentioning. In my eyes, and no doubt the rest of us who DO operate these a/c every day for a living, your comments are as infuriating as those of the lowest of the low journalists who make sensational stories out of aviation non-events in the tabloids. I will warn the others who are unable to provide anything more than insults to hold back as they are not needed here. Flch1000 can try and change the argument and bring in the Guvnor which only goes to prove why I had him removed from posting his Walter Mitty experiences on here. You either have the experience and speak from it or else you are a fantasist Walter Mitty type who is in dire need of friends and pretending you are something you are not is not acceptable on here.

So, please don't challenge me on my own board because for your information I am not only 'judge and jury'... I'm also the executioner!

Fool's Hole
13th Aug 2002, 07:28
Where is this astonishing comment then? Has it been removed while I was asleep. I really would have liked to read it. All I can see is the ashes that's been left from some almighty flaming. Please let us read flch10000000000000's post.

13th Aug 2002, 09:13
I'm only a private pilot, I'm also only regular long-haul SLF so sorry if I am invading the "pro-forum" BUT:

With that attitude, I don't want to be on or near an aircraft flown by 126.9...ever!

13th Aug 2002, 09:19
Screw this B*****Ds hide to the wall beside that other fools' where it can be seen as an example to all and sundry of the ignorant masses who seem to populate these pages today. :mad:

I have been PPRuNing a long time and I can only say that I truly regret that these worthless fools are permitted any access to PPRuNe at all. I strongly urge the limitation of posting priveleges to only those who can prove their status as Professional Pilots... Let the wannabees and dweebs have their own forums or go elsewhere, but give us somewhere for us please Dan, a place to share our R&N in private. Let them stay behind their groundbound desks and spend their miserable groundbound lives wishing for a glimpse of the clouds and the sun the way we see them every day. It is through the uninformed and ignorant opinions of the likes of these that we find ourselves in our current industrial and professional straits. Let them know and regret that they will never ever comprehend even the tiniest part of what we do let alone achieve the standards required of us every minute of our working lives.

Hard line I may be, but also very tired of the denigration and dimuntion of one of last bastions of the true artisan. We are a select few and have proved our worth day in, day out in all weathers and climates all over the world. I abhor the state of our profession and it is only fools like these that make it so. Let us demand and receive the respect we deserve by dint of the long hard road each and every professional aviator takes to get where he/she is and the risks, duress and stress that is part of our daily lives as we perform the act of pilotage!

Brother Pilots let us reclaim what is ours.
We are different and apart and long may we remain so!

Rant filter off and soapbox stored safely away till next required.;)

Little Friend
13th Aug 2002, 09:41

I hear you; but you have missed my point.

I'm sure what you say has its place in the chain of events that leads to an upset.

No amount of pressure can make you( or should make you) fly.

I agree that you have to watch yourself VERY carefully and be you own judge and jury. On two occasions I have turned flights down due to fatigue and even one on prior familiy commitments.

At NO TIME did eJ pressure me or respond with anything other than acceptance-They HAVE to- which is my piont.

You are the final backstop to safety. If its not right then don't go.

I don't have any difficulty with this mindset and neither does eJ or many of the excellent girls/boys on line(inc. CC)

Like I said if you can do it and don't need your hand held and have broad shoulders-then come on in.

If you feel bad press-pay talks-moaning will distract you then.....

So enough of this if you are a pilot you should have more pride and respect for your vocation .

Stan Woolley
13th Aug 2002, 10:46
As Little Fiend says if you are prepared to work without complaint until you lose your medical then come on down to easyJet.

There will soon be vacancies.

:mad: :mad:

Little Friend
13th Aug 2002, 20:29

I didn't say that or imply it.

I'll try again and make it simple.

You don't have to crash, or lower your standards just 'cos the company is a mess.

My loyalty, to set this straight, is to me, my family, my licence and my profession.

Do you see eJ on that list?

Your all too active on the company site-check that.

13th Aug 2002, 20:57
What is going on in this outfit. A good friend checked in at BFS at 1900 hrs for the 2000 LTN flight. After a lot of misinformation it was finally admitted at midnight that they were cancelling the flight and blamed the Flt-Crew. No alternatives were offered and boy were the pax pissed off, especially the ones who had business meetings and holiday flights the next morning and were night stopping in LTN. The grd staff VANISHED v.quickly. Is this the start of more problems ? Is the greek selling his shares ?:mad:

13th Aug 2002, 21:32
Hi Grunt,

Could you be a bit more specific as to the date. On inquiring for you, I presumed from the time and date that you were refering to tonights flight, which in fact left BFS 5 minutes early, and arrived in LTN 25 minutes rearly. I then realised that you could not have been refering to tonight as you stated that passengers were kept hanging around till midnight, so I checked on yesterdays. There were problems then, the flight, the EZY 362, left BFS 50 minutes late and arrived in LTN 40 minutes late.

When are you refering too??

Norman Stanley Fletcher
13th Aug 2002, 23:11
A fascinating discussion. Apart from the foolish comments of FLCH10000 and 126.9, both of whom have embarrassed themselves severely, there are actually some useful points being made here.

I am an A320 pilot with another operator who was made an offer by easyJet last year, which I turned down after much heart searching in favour of my present employer. As such I am actually quite well disposed towards easyJet despite the fact that they are now the opposition! I am still in regular contact with a number of friends who work for easyJet and feel reasonably qualified to be able to make comparisons between them and other airlines. There is no doubt in my mind that the training standards within easyJet are extremely high - as shown by the high failure rate they currently have. In complete contradiction to others on this thread who write them off as slack and unprofessional, I believe the exact opposite is true. They are so determined not to be considered second best that they seem to have acted harshly in a number of cases and failed people who should have made it. Their increasing reputation as a 'chopping airline' is totally counterproductive because I know for a fact that it is putting top quality people off applying. There is no shortage of young and keen lads/lasses wanting their first big break but there is a critical shortage of 'the right people' wanting to join. I would suggest that my current company, which is full of very experienced skippers and FOs who are dual rated on both 737s and A320s, are exactly who they need to attract. To my knowledge, not a single pilot has applied to them, and I know for certain that no one has joined them (a couple went to GO for geographic reasons). They simply have to address themselves to the issues of rostering, quality of life and 'fairness' of the training system which when taken together put the very people off they need to attract.

The next issue which has shocked me is this revelation that people who have had offers in the past will not be considered again in the future. Apart from the apparent vindictiveness of the situation, notwithstanding the comments of JL/Cruella, this policy brings into question the very validity of their whole selection process. If someone goes through the whole 9 yards and passes the selection procedure they are by definition exactly who easyJet want to employ. If by turning easyJet down for any number of reasonable and legitimate reasons they are subsequently black-balled from ever working for easyJet in the future, then easyJet must hold their hands up and say they simply got the wrong person for the job in the first place and that their selection system is totally inadequate. Clearly that is not the case, and this very ill-considered policy must be seen as arrogant and vindictive.

That leads me back to my original assertion that the very people who easyJet need to attract are not going to darken their door. Rather than easyJet behaving in this childish manner, they should rather seek to win the battle for the hearts and minds of the people who turned them down the first time. As anecdotal evidence, I know of someone who had thought of going along to the easyJet roadshow/presentation at Heathrow in the next few weeks, but having read this thread will not now be attending. I would suggest that is easyJet's loss and that their policy is backfiring badly. Do they want the best calibre of 737/A320 pilots to apply? Well if the pilots who turned up first time were good enough, why do they not swallow their pride and try and woo them back a second time?

My own experience of the easyJet recruitment system was essentially negative in that they constantly forgot to write to me and tell me what was happening and after both the selection day and the sim ride I had to phone up and badger them weeks later to find out if I was through. Although they eventually came up with a job offer I had by then (only because of their 2 months of delays) been offered a job flying Airbuses which I took instead. Like everyone else in aviation, I took the best job offer I had at the time and it was in no way a reflection of easyJet. The frank truth is that if every single one of us had got that 'dream airline job' at the right time in our lives we would probably not be working for who we are at the moment! I personally am delighted with my current employer, but that does not mean that I would have not made a real go at being the best easyJet pilot I possibly could if I had joined them.

So come on easyJet - get real and do not let your own pride and puffed up sense of importance prevent you from gaining some of the very pilots you actually want. If you wanted them first time round, then unless they have sprouted a second head you must surely see some value in them the second time!

13th Aug 2002, 23:22
Thanks Little Friend,

I fully agree with what you say in your second post - except that it is a counsel of perfection. It is the way things OUGHT to be. But it does not represent how everybody behaves all the time. Hence the increased frequency of human factors critical incidents in companies that are an organisational mess.

There is a further risk that may apply even to you in some circumstances. If you and/or those around you are under stress, then there is an increased likelihood that there will be attentional lapses. Most of these will be minor, and most of them will be committed by people who are not on board the aircraft when it takes off. But the cumulative effect of disruptions due to attentional lapses can negatively affect the performance of even the most dedicated flight crew. One only has to read the angry, dismissive or sarcastic tone of some of the flight crew who post on pprune to realise that all around you there are pilots with stress management problems.

I have absolutely no knowledge of whether any of this applies to EZY. My (limited) experience of EZY as a passenger has been perfectly satisfactory. But the time around a merger is always problematic (the Staines Trident, Erebus, the Dryden F28, Crossair recently,etc.). Actually, without having any inside knowledge, I am quite encouraged by EZY management's open acknowledgement of growth related HR problems. At least that suggests they are not in denial like so many aorund at the moment.

13th Aug 2002, 23:26
Very well put, Norman Stanley Fletcher. "Arrogant" and "vindictive" describe the situation very well.

Cruella/JL claim that she/they will look at individual cases... I doubt it, they don't reply to emails unless they need an answer, phoning is a waste of time and you just know that anything sent on old-fashioned paper will be ignored.

As you say, having selected the right person for the job, the intelligent HR person will continue to woo the person concerned, or at least leave the door open for acceptance at a later date. Employing the right people is their raison d'etre , and every person they reject for not accepting their first (and, it seems, only) offer represents a significant loss to the company financially.

The policy will no doubt change when they start having trouble finding crews, as it has before.

14th Aug 2002, 07:35
Hi krisscross, the flight from bfs was last sunday night, 11 aug. EJ are saying the flt crew were out of hours and thus cancelled. This was the last straw for my friend and has sworn never to darken door 1L again, will now be flying BMI. Interested to hear the other side of the story.

Stan Woolley
14th Aug 2002, 08:00
Little Friend

If you look at what happens to the easy pilots you'll find that many of them have gone part time after a very few years, even then they are working as hard or harder than many companies full time pilots. Also it is very clear that you can tire people out way below the max legal limits by poor rostering, and boy do we have poor rostering.

The point I am trying to make is that it is not reasonable to expect this from your workforce, and as you know its not just the pilots - its everybody! I have never heard of a company where so many drop by the wayside one way or another, how many managers have taken extended leave for stress?

If you believe you can separate your professional operation from the above environment for very long I think you are mistaken. Earlier on in this thread you stated that you would be the one with the 'bags under his eyes' - that in itself implies a flight safety hazard! I too try to keep it light hearted on the line but its simply not possible at times, which is why its such a serious problem.

You suggested I check out the company forum, well that is one place where at least one of your own posts highlights a stress management problem at least as bad as mine, I try to refrain from using the f word. By the way I completely agree with that particular post and I have no problem with a bit of passion, at the end of the day its the people who care that change things for the better.

If you are truly able to operate to your highest standards in the current mayhem then I must assume you haven't been here very long. Either that or you are ex - SAS in which case I retract without prejudice any statements made by myself or any member of my family which you may have found in the least bit offensive!

To those who say well done to easy for coming out and admitting the error of their ways - its a bit hard not to when the embarrassing facts are all over the national press!

Tower Ranger
14th Aug 2002, 09:44

I heard a rumour from the Emerald Isle that the crew had calculated their hours incorrectly and were not actually out of hours but just thought they were,ooops.

14th Aug 2002, 15:19
Firstly Norman Stanley Fletcher, you have said everything that needs to be said on this thread - spot on. How do you keep your composure while writing?

Anyway, the real reason that eJ have failed is this.

Fact 1. They are short of crew.

Fact 2. I WAS available in Dec-Feb (7000 total, 4000hrs 737 EFIS in command, no bad name in the industry, no accidents, incidents, virtually unknown worldwide!)

Fact 3. Never got invited to an interview, not even now. (Happily employed elsewhere! and received the email about the silly roadshow, don't expect me though!)

Fact 4. easyJet are sinking because they are too proud and very very stupid in letting down the very people that make it, or would have made it tick.

Joyce and the rest - stuff your precious job!

Chilli Ray
14th Aug 2002, 19:04
From EMA today, a certain charter airline flying A300 have been asked by easy about flying for them next week as our orange friends have already earmarked flights to be cancelled and do not yet know whether there is anyone left they can sub the flights out too.

Little Friend
15th Aug 2002, 10:17

Fair play I full agree with you.

I think that, as with many threads, is heading off in the wrong direction.

My initial post (on this thread) was as a result of some comment that we(eJ and LCC) had become unsafe.

Without repeating myself my point was that I TRY to not let the current situation change my approach to the job once the doors are shut. I'm sure your the same; as are most of us.

I was just deffending all the poor sods at eJ. Life is hard and a skippers job has become a little harder as a result of it. We need a sacking and to start again in certain departments-GO could sort this if we let them.

I'm not suggesting that I'm immune to mistakes( look at my spelling) or that I have set my self above anyone-I just try to do it correctly no matter what.

I do care that we'er in the crap and no its not acceptable, and I'm fed up that the eJ top 40 have put us in the situation AGAIN.

To sum up I believe that we have more control over our mood and how we go to work than some would suggest.
My loyalty is to myself and my wife and kids.
Eventually the job situation will change and eJ may well face its biggest challenge yet-that being the likes of you and me and all the other top people that fly the line moving on.

Best wishes and good luck LF

15th Aug 2002, 18:52
Can anyone point us in the right direction as to find out what flights are likely to be cancelled on any one day.

16th Aug 2002, 13:50
The Times - 16 Aug:

EasyJet cancels flights
By Ben Webster, Transport Correspondent

EASYJET cancelled flights booked by 10,000 passengers last night after admitting that it had expanded too quickly to offer a reliable service.

The cancelled flights are the first casualties of the Luton-based budget airline’s £374 million takeover of Go, its Stansted-based former rival. EasyJet is permanently removing all Go flights from Belfast to Glasgow and Edinburgh from next Tuesday. It is contacting 9,882 passengers with Go tickets to offer them alternative easyJet flights where available.

The announcement came after easyJet told its pilots, in letters obtained by The Times, that it was struggling with “severe disruption”.

The cancellation of the Belfast flights raises doubts about other services on which easyJet and Go compete for customers, including London to Barcelona, Málaga, Nice and Palma.

A spokesman said there were no plans for any further changes. EasyJet and Go have separate but overlapping catchment areas.

16th Aug 2002, 15:19
There appear to be two problems combined here. The Rostering problem is understandable, but the more recent vague admission of possible Overtrading is harder to understand.

Can anybody inform me of whether or not the Overtrading one would come under Governance or conditons of issue of AOC.

Lapsus linguae
16th Aug 2002, 20:10
I don't believe that the problem is that expansion has occurred too rapidly. The problem is that with the expansion that has taken place, there is not enough Pilots, Cabin crew, Engineeers, Despatchers, Baggage Handlers and Ground Staff. A decision was made to intoduce a new rostering method which has failed dramatically. The people responsible for the poor management must be accountable, it is very simple!

Son Of Piltdown
17th Aug 2002, 02:53
EasyJet whips up a storm in the cockpit
By Andrea Felsted
Published: August 16 2002 21:29 | Last Updated: August 16 2002 21:29

Thunder, lightning and torrential rain have wreaked havoc with European air travel this summer, shutting airports and closing air traffic control towers.

But another storm, centring on service and safety standards at the low-cost airlines, is raging across European skies. And the introduction of a new flight-crew rostering system at Ea syJet, leading to severe delays and cancelled flights, put the budget airline firmly in its path.

A leaked letter to pilots, in which Vilhelm Hahn-Petersen, EasyJet's operations director, admitted that the group's rapid expansion had stretched the airline to its limits, immediatel y fed into growing concerns about the low-cost airlines. Do they put profit before customer service and safety? Do they take risks in the aggressive pursuit of profit?

Ray Webster, chief executive of EasyJet, says nothing could be further from the truth.

"Low cost does not come from operations at all. It comes from using the aeroplanes more efficiently, efficiencies in the way we sell seats, what we provide on board. There are no shor t cuts in maintenance, flying or training. That will never be compromised."

He says safety is the priority, followed by customer service. "Safety comes ahead of financial performance every time. You have got to be safe first, look after customers, and financi al performance is what comes out."

But the British Air Line Pilots' Association, Britain's pilots union, says pilots at low-cost airlines are worried about being overstretched.

Cancelled flights have also led to questions about that customer service. About 10,000 people will be affected by EasyJet taking five flights a day out of its schedule from Monday.

Mr Webster says pilots have raised concerns about the new rostering system but they have not questioned safety standards. If they had, this would be taken very seriously.

He adds that commercial pressures are never put on crew or technical staff who decide whether or not an aircraft can fly. There are two teams, a technical team that looks at whether aircraft can fly, and a commercial team that decides on contingency arrangements, and the decisions of the technical team are never questioned.

Mr Webster strongly rejects any suggestion that safety was jeopardised by the introduction of the new roster system.

"At no time has safety been compromised. We will ground the airline, we will disadvantage passengers before we take any risk on safety," he says.

He admits that punctuality has suffered. Although EasyJet is meeting most of its targets for flight departure times, it is still missing the goal of having all flights leave within 1 5 minutes of their scheduled time. Passengers delayed for more than four hours receive a refund and fly for free.

But he says customers are being inconvenienced "at the margin", and that the flights being removed are those where Go's services duplicate EasyJet's.

Mr Webster rejects concerns that recent problems have been caused by over-expansion, or management taking its eye off the ball. He says that as chief executive he is ultimately respo nsible for the decision to implement the new rosters.

He defends the decision to try to find a new way of rostering EasyJet's flight crew, to cope with the route network expansion and generate efficiencies, but also to improve the workin g conditions of staff.

However, he admits that the new system, which used a computer modelling tool common in the industry, should have been better tested, to make it could cope with practical problems.

But he also points out that this summer, EasyJet has experienced a high level of disruption from factors outside its control, such as air traffic control problems, extreme weather an d building work at Luton Airport.

The system has now been abandoned. EasyJet will return to its previous processes in September. An action team formed a couple of weeks ago meets twice a day, and EasyJet's rostering t eam will be joined by Go's. They will be complemented by rostering specialists.

As well as removing five flights a day from its schedule, it is sub-chartering an additional aircraft.

"We may have been able to fix it by tweaking," says Mr Webster, "but we don't experiment with the total business".

The problems have come at a delicate time for EasyJet, which two weeks ago completed the acquisition of Go. They have raised doubts about the time-frame it has set for the integratio n, although Mr Webster says he has been assured by management it can be achieved.

EasyJet is also trying to reach agreement with its pilots, following recognition of Balpa at the end of last year. The target date for an agreement had been April 1 this year. EasyJet plans to use Go's agreement with Balpa as a starting point for fresh negotiations.

A meeting took place this week with EasyJet's pilots council to start the process. Discussions with Balpa will follow.

Given the complex issues EasyJet is grappling with, it is unlikely to leave the storm clouds behind just yet.

Groundhog Night
17th Aug 2002, 08:28
So does the Chief Executive not understand that rostering and Flight Safety are related? :mad:

Son Of Piltdown
17th Aug 2002, 09:03
Perhaps he subscribes to the daft notion that if it is a legal roster it is a safe roster?

But then . . . He doesn't work such rosters nor does he take direct responsibility for all those lives.