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Onions
7th Sep 2019, 21:50
Anyone heard reports of a Max Air 747 landing accident in Nigeria?

Airbubba
7th Sep 2019, 22:11
Here's a news report.

Pilgrims Escape Death As Max Air Aircraft Engine Collapses Mid-air

by SaharaReporters, New York Sep 07, 2019

The aircraft, a Boeing 747-300 [actually a -400? - Airbubba] with registration number 5N-DBK, was said to have developed a fault mid-air before the pilot struggled to land it at the airport.

The incident led to the collapse of one of the four engines of the aircraft.

It was further gathered that the aircraft was returning pilgrims from Niger State from Saudi Arabia.

On landing, a source close to the airport confided in our correspondent that the aircraft skidded off the runway.

The reason for the incident could not be ascertained at the moment, but it was gathered that the Nigerian Civil Aviation Authority had been informed of the incident.

However, a source close to the scene told our correspondent that no life was lost, while efforts to get the officials of Max Air to comment on the issue was unsuccessful.














Pilgrims Escape Death As Max Air Aircraft Engine Collapses Mid-air | Sahara Reporters (http://saharareporters.com/2019/09/07/pilgrims-escape-death-max-air-aircraft-engine-collapses-mid-air)

DaveReidUK
7th Sep 2019, 22:22
The aircraft, a Boeing 747-300 with registration number 5N-DBK, was said to have developed a fault mid-air before the pilot struggled to land it at the airport.

If the identity of the 747 is quoted correctly, yes it's actually a collapsing PW4056-powered 747-400.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x406/5n_dbk_23c0710dc3c61f121176fa062f1a8453f6221678.jpg

Chris2303
7th Sep 2019, 22:30
AVHerald

Incident: Max B744 at Minna on Sep 7th 2019, engine failure and runway excursion (http://avherald.com/h?article=4cc8752f&opt=0)

"A Max Air Boeing 747-400, registration 5N-DBK performing Hajj flight NR-2092 from Jeddah (Saudi Arabia) to Minna (Nigeria) with about 550 people on board, was on approach to Minna when an engine (PW4056) failed. The crew continued for landing on runway 05 at about 05:00L (04:00Z), the aircraft however went off the runway and came to a stop off the runway. There were no injuries, the aircraft sustained minor damage."

nivsy
8th Sep 2019, 01:51
Reports indicate that the airfield has no fire cover. Could have been serious.

golfyankeesierra
8th Sep 2019, 02:14
was on approach to Minna when an engine (PW4056) failed.
really? On a -400 that is a non issue, especially on approach. Going of the runway means there is something else in play..
​​​​​​​or they really have no clue..

Imagegear
8th Sep 2019, 05:56
Landing with 550 people on board might have been a little "heavy"

ID

gearlever
8th Sep 2019, 10:42
Reports indicate that the airfield has no fire cover. Could have been serious.

“The fire that would have followed would have spread to all parts of the airport because we don’t have fire fighting vehicles in this airport,” (https://www.thenewsnigeria.com.ng/2019/09/550-pilgrims-escape-death-as-max-airline-skids-off-runway-at-minna-airport/)

Operating to an airport without ARFF?

His dudeness
8th Sep 2019, 11:29
Pilgrimage flight, so 'higher authority' supposed to keep em from burning. Did work, didn´t it ?

zerograv
8th Sep 2019, 12:42
Landing with 550 people on board might have been a little "heavy"

ID

You bet !!! Second phase of the Hajj is extremely wild ...
There is no telling how much the aircraft weighs. The Pax bring water (zamzam water), sand, rocks, etc, etc.

Had a departure from Jeddah on a B763 with 300 Pax + Fuel to make it all the way to Mauritania. Saw the 76 climbing at 400 feet per min. Had never seen that before ... and it was not because it was very hot. This was in December, at the end of the day, at sunset.

Good thing that aircrafts are build with some good safety margins ...

lomapaseo
8th Sep 2019, 13:03
You bet !!! Second phase of the Hajj is extremely wild ...
There is no telling how much the aircraft weighs. The Pax bring water (zamzam water), sand, rocks, etc, etc.

Had a departure from Jeddah on a B763 with 300 Pax + Fuel to make it all the way to Mauritania. Saw the 76 climbing at 400 feet per min. Had never seen that before ... and it was not because it was very hot. This was in December, at the end of the day, at sunset.

Good thing that aircrafts are build with some good safety margins ...

Does the aircraft also carry shipped cargo not part of the passengers belonging? Might bear on total landing weight estimates being higher or lower.than typical for route

Lake1952
8th Sep 2019, 14:13
But here it is, 24 hours + later, and we still don't really know anything about this incident/accident, do we? Other than the important fact that there was no fire.

ehwatezedoing
8th Sep 2019, 14:18
really? On a -400 that is a non issue, especially on approach. Going of the runway means there is something else in play..
or they really have no clue..
The version I have is that they were heavy rain and gust during their landing.
One of the pod simply scrapped the ground!

​​​​​​​No idea if true or not.

golfyankeesierra
8th Sep 2019, 14:38
The version I have is that they were heavy rain and gust during their landing.
That is indeed more challenging then an engine fail on final

pattern_is_full
8th Sep 2019, 14:38
Aviation Herald quotes airline as saying gusty conditions and heavy rain. Engine shut down on approach, then an engine nacelle also contacted runway during touchdown. Conflicting reports on almost everything, however, except the aircraft seems mostly in one piece and there were no fatalities.

I like the mention of "epileptic" ILS signals. ;)

Incident: Max B744 at Minna on Sep 7th 2019, engine failure and runway excursion (http://avherald.com/h?article=4cc8752f&opt=0)

zerograv
8th Sep 2019, 15:20
Does the aircraft also carry shipped cargo not part of the passengers belonging? Might bear on total landing weight estimates being higher or lower.than typical for route

Hello Lomapaseo,

Not the case ! No Cargo being transported. All the space is used to transport the "luggage" of the Pax, which is loaded on pallets for the FWD Cargo, and containers for the AFT Cargo, and that space, most of the cases, is not enough for the whole luggage that the pax bring with them. One passanger can easily be returning with 50 kgs of luggage, and this is most of the passengers.

While at it ...

About Minna, Nigeria. Positioned there empty on one occasion sometime around 2008 from Saudi Arabia. We were asked to go there to pick-up pax going to Jeddah. We looked on Jepessen for it, but could not find it. Called operations and asked to be sent the Jepessen Charts for Minna, Nigeria. We were told at the time, around 2008, that there was no Jepessen Charts available for Minna. Minna was not a Jepessen airport. The only thing available at the time was the AIP of Nigeria. Can not remember as it has been quite a while, but suspect that the runway is probably not very long ...

gearlever
8th Sep 2019, 15:43
05/23 3.400 m.

CargoOne
8th Sep 2019, 16:17
You bet !!! Second phase of the Hajj is extremely wild ...
There is no telling how much the aircraft weighs. The Pax bring water (zamzam water), sand, rocks, etc, etc.

Had a departure from Jeddah on a B763 with 300 Pax + Fuel to make it all the way to Mauritania. Saw the 76 climbing at 400 feet per min. Had never seen that before ... and it was not because it was very hot. This was in December, at the end of the day, at sunset.

Good thing that aircrafts are build with some good safety margins ...

lets admit - no departure from JED/MED for Phase 2 can pass a proper scrutiny from A to Z and we all know why. But it is going on for decades and unlikely to change any soon

ps said that it is probably unreasonable to blame Hajj too much on any subsequent incident once you have reached a cruising altitude out of JED

daved123
8th Sep 2019, 16:43
Does the aircraft also carry shipped cargo not part of the passengers belonging? Might bear on total landing weight estimates being higher or lower.than typical for route
Having strolled among the pilgrims at the JED Hajj terminal waiting for their return flight with all their possessions and observed returning African (mainly) regular pax turning up at check-in with refrigerators and washing machines, suspect cargo, as mentioned above, would be mainly from pax.
DaveD

petersaunders
9th Sep 2019, 10:12
Minna could be called Babangida airport, as many operations ( apart from the Hajj ) are something to do with him. Consequently, it is a very quiet airport. The runway is good and long, but parking is limited. I last went there for his wife’s funeral ( Maryam ) and it was very congested, with planes holding for the approach. Had previously gone there to pick up the ex president Babangida and his wife. He was not able to travel to Europe for a long time, but sanctions were lifted after Abacha died.

Twiglet1
9th Sep 2019, 14:43
You bet !!! Second phase of the Hajj is extremely wild ...
There is no telling how much the aircraft weighs. The Pax bring water (zamzam water), sand, rocks, etc, etc.

Had a departure from Jeddah on a B763 with 300 Pax + Fuel to make it all the way to Mauritania. Saw the 76 climbing at 400 feet per min. Had never seen that before ... and it was not because it was very hot. This was in December, at the end of the day, at sunset.

Good thing that aircrafts are build with some good safety margins ...
In the old days we took the zamzam water off the pax in Jeddah, empty them, then the bottles were refilled at KUL on arrival. I have to say the Malaysian pax were great. Nigerian pax were the equivalent of a Friday night Ibiza (that's not even a decent comparison) and most decent carriers didn't go near them..

ATC Watcher
9th Sep 2019, 17:30
In the old days we took the zamzam water off the pax in Jeddah, empty them, then the bottles were refilled at KUL on arrival
You are not going to make friends in Malaysia !
I remember stories of the very first Hadj flights from Mauritania to Jeddah by Spantax, (early 70's) where on the inbound flights people were starting fires in the galley to brew tea and on the return leg they got a few 100ft max rate climb after level off due vast amount of zamzam water ad holy sand carried as in hand luggage . I thought that by now the lessons were learnt and that hand baggage is now weighted there . is it not the case ? .

BRUpax
9th Sep 2019, 18:08
people were starting fires in the galley to brew tea

Even in the aisle according to my wife (a former F/A). They also had to give them lessons on how to use the loos :eek:

Gipsy Queen
9th Sep 2019, 18:50
Even in the aisle according to my wife (a former F/A). They also had to give them lessons on how to use the loos :eek:

Camp fires in the aisle confirmed by a 74 driver friend who had done several Hajj trips.

svhar
9th Sep 2019, 23:31
I did the Hajj for five years (747 and 767), everything written here rings a bell. I still would not have missed this experience for anything.

Anilv
10th Sep 2019, 05:45
I've been around these Hajj flights and to be honest the loading and weights were all over the place. I've seen DC-10s/MD-11s (World Airways) with zamzam water just chucked into the holds (no pallets of containers), bags on pallets without nets. (Saudia) just a tarpaulin to keep things in place. Headcounts were also innaccurate, not surprising when getting the pax to board was like herding cats.

Anilv

Anilv
10th Sep 2019, 06:36
My guess is they attempted a 3 engine landing and applied reverse on all three...

Lets see.....

Anilv

misd-agin
10th Sep 2019, 11:57
My guess is they attempted a 3 engine landing and applied reverse on all three...

Lets see.....

Anilv

That is not that difficult to control. It’s harder on a twin engine jet after an engine failure and using the operative engine’s thrust reverser is approved.

RatherBeFlying
10th Sep 2019, 16:03
I was told at Wardair that airframes about to undergo a D check were sent on Hajj – and new interiors post D check.

widgeon
10th Sep 2019, 16:26
One wonders of the air line will change their name so they might not be confused with the other Max ?.:rolleyes:

ironbutt57
11th Sep 2019, 09:34
maybe the engine didnt collapse fully, and some drag from a partially collapsed engine caused the runway excursion

Onions
11th Sep 2019, 09:41
Anyone out there have any photos?

DaveReidUK
11th Sep 2019, 10:35
The consensus among the conflicting reports in the Nigerian press appears to confirm that an engine contacted the runway on landing, shedding parts and damaging the runway surface.

Whether there was a runway excursion and/or evacuation is somewhat less clear.

JanetFlight
11th Sep 2019, 17:54
Anyone out there have any photos?

Here

https://samchui.com/2019/09/08/max-air-boeing-744-received-minor-damages-after-complex-landing/#.XXV35SgzaUk

Twiglet1
11th Sep 2019, 18:29
You are not going to make friends in Malaysia !
I remember stories of the very first Hadj flights from Mauritania to Jeddah by Spantax, (early 70's) where on the inbound flights people were starting fires in the galley to brew tea and on the return leg they got a few 100ft max rate climb after level off due vast amount of zamzam water ad holy sand carried as in hand luggage . I thought that by now the lessons were learnt and that hand baggage is now weighted there . is it not the case ? .

ATC

This was 1983 so a few's ago. I think average weights were used. As Svhar stated I learnt so much as a twenty something.

WHBM
11th Sep 2019, 20:33
I was told at Wardair that airframes about to undergo a D check were sent on Hajj – and new interiors post D check.
Max Ward (another Max !) always took considerable pride in the presentation of his aircraft, inside and out. I'm surprised he even considered doing the Hadj. Were the charter rates really that lucrative ?

RatherBeFlying
12th Sep 2019, 01:43
Likely the airframe(s) went straight from Hajj to D check and interior replacement, likely at Shannon.

To/from Canada Max offered the odd special to/from Shannon D checks.

WHBM
12th Sep 2019, 09:39
Likely the airframe(s) went straight from Hajj to D check and interior replacement, likely at Shannon.

To/from Canada Max offered the odd special to/from Shannon D checks.
I guess it would have to be in those odd years when the Hadj, which shifts by a couple of weeks every year, was in the Autumn, between the summer Transatlantic operation and the winter snowbirds flights.

I used to think Wardair had their heavy work done by Eastern in Miami.

ehwatezedoing
12th Sep 2019, 09:49
Here

https://samchui.com/2019/09/08/max-air-boeing-744-received-minor-damages-after-complex-landing/#.XXV35SgzaUk

Ohhhh my.....
Straight from the link:
“Using their wealth of experience and knowledge of the terrain and environment to a safe landing and stop on the runway during which, one of the engines slightly brushed the runway due to complex landing maneuvers occasioned by the strong downdraft, aircraft did not crash nor skid off the runway,” said Capt. Ibrahim Dilli, Director of Max Air Flight Operations
This guy should be in politics :p