British Airways Centenary Becomes A PR Nightmare

[Magplug]

Martin Rivers at Forbes Magazine rather neatly encapsulates the current problems at British Airways......

British Airways poured money into marketing this year by re-painting four of its planes in heritage liveries and running a series of TV and online advertisements hailing 100 years of flight by the flag carrier. The campaign – which drafted in celebrities like Olivia Colman – sought to rekindle BA’s historic reputation as “the world’s favorite airline”. Yet the company seems oblivious of the thing that made it popular in the past: looking after customers.
Read the full article here (https://www.forbes.com/sites/martinrivers/2019/08/27/british-airways-centenary-becomes-a-pr-nightmare/#1c4695735da0)

[eckhard]

Says it all really, and rather eloquently.

It’s all so sad and unnecessary; surely the time has come to ring-fence some of the profits to secure the airline’s future and then invest the remainder in improvements to the basic day-to-day operation.

As a small example: the way we treat our wheelchair users is a disgrace. Third-party providers are consistently failing to deliver an acceptable service. For about £2m per annum we could do it ourselves and become recognised as market-leading in this regard.

Virtually every other area of the LHR operation needs more staff. The catering offered to premium passengers is an embarrassment and I feel sorry for our cabin crew who have to apologise for it (or lack of it).

The irony is that the general public are on our side and realise that it’s not the fault of the staff at the coal-face. They desperately want us to succeed but also want to see a vast improvement in the whole “customer experience”. Yes; lounges and aircraft seats are being improved but that doesn’t make up for chaotic data breaches, IT failures, lost bags and being told that you can’t have the chicken because another passenger has taken the only one and by the way we’ve run out of bread rolls too. Don’t get me started on waiting for stand guidance and stuck chocks!

I used to be proud of working here but now I keep quiet unless I get asked.

I’m not a business man and fully accept that I’m probably missing something but I do find it strange that our management can’t seem to grasp these basic concepts. How much profit is enough?

[Confirmed Must Ride]

As a small example: the way we treat our wheelchair users is a disgrace. Third-party providers are consistently failing to deliver an acceptable service. For about £2m per annum we could do it ourselves and become recognised as market-leading in this regard.

Alot of airlines would love to take over but this is not permitted as it is the responsibility of the airport to provide such services as per EU regs. It is a contracted service that is decided through the airport AOC.

[Icerefugee]

Couldn't agree more. I am ashamed and embarrassed to be associated with this organisation. Once upon a time, I was proud to work for BA. Customer Service is a thing of the past. To Fly, to serve? Who are we serving? We have lost touch with those who pay our wages. Across the range of products, look at LH, KL, AF....... we are a poor runner up in each case.
We are now an increasingly US run business, with US standards which isn't always what is wanted elsewhere. Let's look again at OUR culture.
Whinge over.

[Paul Lupp]

Once upon a time, I was proud to work for BA. Customer Service.

Once upon a time, I was proud to be a BA passenger. No longer, the airline is almost an embarrassment to the UK. Where are the decent in-flight meals like those amazing hot breakfasts that used to be served on the domestic routes to/from Heathrow? I booked a flight to return on Sunday, the self-appointed 100th anniversary Day, hoping that there may have been a souvenir on offer.... oh dear, a small piece of chocolate shrink-wrapped in a plastic "100 years" wrapper was as good as it gets !
The inflight meal was a miserable cold chicken sort-of-salad - a premium product without premium in the service.

To Fly, to serve? Who are we serving? .
"To fly, To screw as much money out of the passengers as possible"..... I did recently find the full "mission statement" from the 1990s and have it at home on my computer. Somewhere along the line, Management lost the plot and the motive is now to make as much money as possible for the shareholders and company executives. I just hope that the aircraft monitoring/maintenance safety standards are not being compromised

[hunterboy]

Maybe it’s time to reclaim vital infrastructure out of the hands of foreign shareholders and back into the hands of stakeholders? Ludicrous that utilities and transport hubs are owned by foreign entities, and yet the same countries keep a tight grip on their own. It wouldn’t be bad if we had inexpensive, high quality services, but , sadly, we don’t.

[BEagle]

I did rather like one recent passenger's opinion of flying with ba: "It's like Ryanair without the charm"....

[MichaelKPIT]

It's heartbreaking to read the article and these posts. I worked for BA for twelve years until 1999 and was immensely proud to say that. (I still am.) It was by far the best job I ever had. Where else do you find yourself driving home and literally looking forward to coming back to work tomorrow?! But a lot of my friends who are still there are saying the same thing - it's changed, and not for the better. It's not the company that I left.

[GE115b]

You are flying to serve the management and shareholders, that’s it.

[Jack D]

You are flying to serve the management and shareholders, that’s it.

Never let a leprechaun run your business !

[Paul Lupp]

Winter 1991, from BA Investor (my late father had shares....)
I thought that this was so good, I used to carry a copy round with me in my diary, to show any company that was struggling to set its own mission statement up.

TO FLY, TO SERVE
A Company aiming to be the best.

The corporate mission of British Airways is: To be the best and most successful company in the airline industry.

The company's seven corporate goals are:

Safe and secure
To be a safe and secure airline

Financially strong
To deliver a strong and consistent financial performance

Global leader
To secure a leading share of air travel business worldwide with a significant presence in all major geographical markets

Service and value
To provide overall superior service and good value for money in every market segment in which we compete

Customer driven
To excel in anticipating and quickly responding to customer needs and competitor activity

Good employer
To sustain a working environment that attracts, retains and develops committed employees who share in the success of the company

Good neighbour
To be a good neighbour, concerned for the community and the environment

[custardpsc]

As for actually being 100, companies house says otherwise - 1983..Company DetailsName & Registered Office:
BRITISH AIRWAYS PLC
WATERSIDE
PO BOX 365
HARMONDSWORTH
UB7 0GB
Company No. 01777777

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/images/en/stdwc/spacer.gifhttp://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/images/en/stdwc/spacer.gifhttp://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/images/en/stdwc/spacer.gifhttp://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/images/en/stdwc/spacer.gifStatus: Active
Date of Incorporation: 13/12/1983

Country of Origin: United KingdomCompany Type: Public Limited Company
Nature of Business (SIC):
51101 - Scheduled passenger air transport
51102 - Non-scheduled passenger air transport
52230 - Service activities incidental to air transportation
52242 - Cargo handling for air transport activitiesAccounting Reference Date: 31/12
Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/12/2018 (GROUP)
Next Accounts Due: 30/06/2020
Last Confirmation Statement Date: 31/07/2019
Next Confirmation Statement Due: 14/08/2020Mortgage: Number of charges: 830 ( 695 outstanding / 135 satisfied / 0 part satisfied )
Last Members List: 31/07/2015
Last Bulk Shareholders List: 31/07/2011Previous Names:No previous name information has been recorded over the last 20 years.UK Establishment Details (javascript:popup('/goWCK/help/en/stdwc/ukest_ch.html',500,500);)There are no UK Establishments associated with this company.Oversea Company Info (javascript:popup('/goWCK/help/en/stdwc/overseas_ch.html',500,500);)There are no Oversea Details associated with this company.

[Lord Bracken]

Once upon a time, I was proud to be a BA passenger. No longer, the airline is almost an embarrassment to the UK. Where are the decent in-flight meals like those amazing hot breakfasts that used to be served on the domestic routes to/from Heathrow?

No fan of BA's current incarnation but let's be realistic here: The Super Shuttle style of service (and the fares) were killed by Easyjet and Ryanair.

[BEA 71]

Michael, a lot of people felt the same, it was a great company to work for. It might comfort you a little - friends in the U.S.,
but also people who work ( worked ) for other European carriers, say that their airline is not the one for which they would
have " given their lives ". Four of my very good airline friends are still working for the national carrier, they are so fed up
that they will leave at the first opportunity ( early retirement ). One of the problems is the fact that fewer and fewer people
have started their carreer at the bottom, in the later years the " direct entries " took over, having no other knowledge, than
their Excel spreadsheets. After more than three decades of frontline work I fell in the hands of one of these torture masters,
a former Pan Am steward, who had made his way through the back doors. I finally was offered early retirement, I missed
my work, but it was a fair deal.

[spitfirek5054]

Work for KLM, at least,theirs is a genuine 100 years,am not flight crew,but engineering. Am English,but live in Holland,and work at Schiphol.

[punkalouver]

I did rather like one recent passenger's opinion of flying with ba: "It's like Ryanair without the charm"....

A couple of years ago, I flew BA for the first time over to Frankfurt. Things didn't start off well when I arrived as all the baggage belts at T5 were not working that morning. So as instructed, I left my bags in the directed area along with everybody else and was told that they would not arrive with me.

Of course, this was not their fault but it was annoying. Then I got on their 767 and was hoping to have an on time departure as I had a timeline to meet. There was a delay as one of the pilots found an oil leak of some sort. We were told that while it was within limits, as a precaution a hose would be changed and then we departed about an hour late. OK...fine. These things happen and I appreciate the safety first, even if annoying, that the leak wasn't discovered by maintenance earlier.

After all this, I discovered that the food and drink was not free. I asked if due to all the delays and issues that I might get a free orange juice. Not allowed. OK fine. When a email arrived at some point later and asked about my experience, I said that I don't plan to fly BA anymore. Who knows, maybe I will. But if I were running the show, when a screw-up day like this happens, it might be an idea to give something minor in return.

[beamer]

BA has not been an airline of choice for some time. If there is no choice then you are stuck with them.

[AndoniP]

BA has not been an airline of choice for some time. If there is no choice then you are stuck with them.

in this day and age there usually is a choice. for some people it's "better the devil you know" though...

[TCU]

I commute between CPT and LHR 3 or 4 times a year

Mostly fly BA Y these days (either direct or via JNB) as the cracking EK Business Class fares of a few years ago are a distant memory. My Silver card has been cast into history, but I survive (used to fly this route a lot with BA in C).

BA is mostly on time. I nearly always bag a reasonable fare. Service is normally fine and even though the 744's are old in the tooth, I'm always pleased to be on a blue, red and white tailed G-reg plane when over the heart of darkness.

Living in Africa with its daily ups and downs, when I arrive back in the UK, I get the sense most Brits have gone soft, lost there sense of place and adventure and think they are entitled to something they can't afford.

So fellow snowflake Brits, keep on moaning. I'll keep boarding my BA flight from Africa to Blighty as I am sure it will get me home to my family safe, without too much drama and at a reasonable fare.

[18greens]

I read somewhere that no matter what the service and review stars of the airline are most people buy the cheapest seat . They see it as a commodity because you get there and the snottiness of the staff and lack of beer and food isn't worth the extra £10. So you could blame the passengers for getting what they buy. How much extra would you pay on top of your £35 seat to Malaga to get a smile a beer and a nice meal?

I was on a BA flight recently where one member of staff seemed to care what was going on. Despite being only 20 and not trying too hard she stood head and shoulders above all of the other slack jawed staff put together. I was so impressed I wrote to BA to compliment them on picking up the staff training that had been missing for so long. Sadly she seemed to be a one off...

One day day customer service might be seen as a basic need, not just for first class...

[quietfrog]

Couldn't agree more. I am ashamed and embarrassed to be associated with this organisation. Once upon a time, I was proud to work for BA. Customer Service is a thing of the past. To Fly, to serve? Who are we serving? We have lost touch with those who pay our wages. Across the range of products, look at LH, KL, AF....... we are a poor runner up in each case.
We are now an increasingly US run business, with US standards which isn't always what is wanted elsewhere. Let's look again at OUR culture.
Whinge over.

How so?!

Your CEO is European, thanks for blaming the US for your problems though, I have to be honest, last I checked the domestic service on Delta, United and even AA was much better than BA's, I used to love BA as well, and I feel for you guys with this management, but lets not blame the US for your boy Willie...

Free snacks, sodas on even the worst stateside mainline flights, not so on BA or Iberia...

[UltraFan]

Is it some kind of a modern trend of formerly successful airline CEOs with next to iconic status crashing and burning when times are actually good? Walsh brought BA to profitability and now does things that we expect only from creatures like Michael O'Leary. Including ordering 200 airplanes that are currently considered unsafe to fly.

Tim Clark made Emirates No.1 long-haul airline in the world from next to nothing, but his recent blunder with airplane orders is destroying not only his reputation but the airline's relationships with the plane makers.

When will those people understand that once you've achieved something grand, you have to just step down and retire in a blaze of glory.

[BEA 71]

I commute between CPT and LHR 3 or 4 times a year

Mostly fly BA Y these days (either direct or via JNB) as the cracking EK Business Class fares of a few years ago are a distant memory. My Silver card has been cast into history, but I survive (used to fly this route a lot with BA in C).

BA is mostly on time. I nearly always bag a reasonable fare. Service is normally fine and even though the 744's are old in the tooth, I'm always pleased to be on a blue, red and white tailed G-reg plane when over the heart of darkness.

Living in Africa with its daily ups and downs, when I arrive back in the UK, I get the sense most Brits have gone soft, lost there sense of place and adventure and think they are entitled to something they can't afford.

So fellow snowflake Brits, keep on moaning. I'll keep boarding my BA flight from Africa to Blighty as I am sure it will get me home to my family safe, without too much drama and at a reasonable fare.

TCU - Your comment is the best of them all. The blue, red & white tailed aircraft have taken me safe to the most distant places in the world, there have been times when I sighted in relief when I saw these trails before going home. My return to Europe after the Iceland volcanoe erruption, the care by staff and the comradeship of the crew
will never be forgotten. On hundreds of flights I have never been starving, or feel thirsty. Blue, red & white aircraft have brought stranded passengers home, who had travelled on airlines which went bankrupt while they were abroad. Thanks for reminding us of the good sides of the company. Yes, there are managers, who shouldn´t
work in this business, soul less bean counters, as I have experienced myself. But I still get my pension, without which I couldn´t survive. Still have my travel concessions, which are more than generous.

[ewe.lander]

I'm with you TCU, whilst things have gone down the pan a bit at BA, the recent improvement in catering is actually GOOD. I'm happy BA set a high standard of safety, Flight Deck & Engineering still good and Cabin seems to be past the nightmare of a few years ago.Sure, it's not perfect but I position 15 or more times a year and its a damned sight better than Vueling/Air Malta/Ryanair/Eurowings/Wizz etc.... Though sadly as a Brit not as good as Lufty or KLM.

[Thaihawk]

BA has not been an airline of choice for some time. If there is no choice then you are stuck with them.

ABBA, mate. Anybody But British Airways. Shoddy service and fares that are too high.

Luckily, I've not flown on BA since 2012, and have no desire whatsoever to do so.

[Bull at a Gate]

After a few flights with BA I realised that they are now a no frills airline at a full cost price. Mind you they were very generous when I flew BA from Heathrow to Singapore with a corpse in 1F while I was in 3A (me and the unfortunate man in 1A both got an upgrade).

[Icerefugee]

How so?!

Your CEO is European, thanks for blaming the US for your problems though, I have to be honest, last I checked the domestic service on Delta, United and even AA was much better than BA's, I used to love BA as well, and I feel for you guys with this management, but lets not blame the US for your boy Willie...

Free snacks, sodas on even the worst stateside mainline flights, not so on BA or Iberia...

Mr Cruz is European. Agreed. But with a US education, and before being with Vueling and its predecessors, was with American. US standards. Also, loads of US shareholders - both institutional and private, few of whom will have an interest in UK culture and values.
Lovely comment earlier. Ryanair without the charm.

[shamrock_f22]

I commute between CPT and LHR 3 or 4 times a year

Mostly fly BA Y these days (either direct or via JNB) as the cracking EK Business Class fares of a few years ago are a distant memory. My Silver card has been cast into history, but I survive (used to fly this route a lot with BA in C).

BA is mostly on time. I nearly always bag a reasonable fare. Service is normally fine and even though the 744's are old in the tooth, I'm always pleased to be on a blue, red and white tailed G-reg plane when over the heart of darkness.

Living in Africa with its daily ups and downs, when I arrive back in the UK, I get the sense most Brits have gone soft, lost there sense of place and adventure and think they are entitled to something they can't afford.

So fellow snowflake Brits, keep on moaning. I'll keep boarding my BA flight from Africa to Blighty as I am sure it will get me home to my family safe, without too much drama and at a reasonable fare.

God forbid we should want to actually improve something we're passionate about right? I mean let's all bow down and go home because you get your reasonable fares without too much drama. What a standard we should all be striving for! Thank you for such insight and perspective.

Passengers like you are what keep BA going. You're willing to accept the mediocrity and your stiff upper lip mentality because complaining would put you in with the "snowflakes". Cruz and Co love people like you. Nobody is entitled to something they can't afford but don't be under any illusion that you're getting a value based service for what you're actually paying for.

[BARKINGMAD]

Start with reading the book and/or watching the film;

https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/books/joel-bakan/the-corporation-the-pathological-pursuit-of-profit-and-power/GOR001222717?keyword=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlrXw8N275AIVBLDtCh22DgXWEAQYAiABEgIhQfD_Bw E

Then muse over the following psychological traits;

https://www.healthyplace.com/personality-disorders/psychopath/psychopath-vs-sociopath-what-s-the-difference

Hopefully then will you appreciate why they're all behaving in such a manner and you'll be able to sleep easy?

My dealings with the CEO of a major UK utility supplier confirms all of the above.

[clipstone1]

Alex will be gone soon...off to do something else...

[oscarisapc]

I am about to fly BA long haul and some of the comments here and elesewhere have been very off putting. If I had a choice, I might have used another airline but the flight is part of a package. However, I still have confidence in the professionalism of the staff and expect to get to my destination safely. Recent comments about the impending strike that it is not about absolute levels of pay but about creeping inroads into terms and conditons whilst the directors pocket millions which nobody but them thinks they deserve, chime with other social issues and the pilots have my sympathy, although personally I hope issues are resolved before the strike b*****s up my holiday. But this is a symptom of our times - the greedy get greedier because they can and the rest of us pay.

[medod]

Not sure there's much wrong with BA long-haul, apart from the majority of the aircraft not being the latest and greatest, but their short-haul service in Europe is a joke.

[AirUK]

I used to champion BA for their comfort and service. However, following several recent experiences, I was not left impressed. The service is really suffering now as a result of the low-cost, pay-for-everything approach. This is what used to set BA apart from most of the other U.K. choices and I didn’t mind paying a little extra to receive the complimentary service. The knock-on effect is a sub-standard offering, at high cost and the service is VERY slow as a result. It took well over an hour after take off in the Euro Traveller cabin to be able to order two Gin & Tonics - at the price of £6 each, which is a crazy price for BA. (We weren’t even right at the back of the a/c either). On the way back, we bought our own drinks in the airport and brought our own sandwiches with us, something I never thought I’d ever do on a BA flight! This same slow service with all cabin lights on gone 11pm at night and numerous PAs during flight back meant that instead of being able to get the sleep we expected in order to drive home slightly less weary at 1:30am in the morning, we got none. And that’s without mentioning the uncomfortable seats on the tatty G-MIDx fleet that have been relegated to Gatwick. ONE check-in bag increased our fare by £30 each way too - excessive. Based upon this experience, I would not differentiate the service offered by BA to that offered by EasyJet/Ryanair, etc (in fact their checked-bag prices are lower). I realise I wasn’t flying in Club Europe, but I wasn’t before either. Lufthansa have a great economy service which is simple, yet appreciated. I’m sorry to say that BA have cheapened their once special brand, and I’ll no longer select BA over any other low cost carrier based upon these recent experiences.

[reefrat]

Usually fly emirates, family used their BA airmiles to shout me biz class ticket BNELHR return. First leg tto London wwas ok,however return was scabby. The biz lounge food ar LHR was gruesome and the loo a throwback to 60s motor way standards,broken seat and greasy hand basin. The staff were surly white wine warm and the red cold. An extra 4000 quid for this, a return to the days of British Ashtrays. Never again . FFS, Emirates from now on.

[golfyankeesierra]

... white wine warm and the red cold...
Looking at your post I guess the refill rate was ok then

[aml125]

reefrat.

British Airways have not flown the Brisbane route for at least 15-20 years.... Not sure the relevance to the current discussion.

[DaveReidUK]

reefrat.

British Airways have not flown the Brisbane route for at least 15-20 years.... Not sure the relevance to the current discussion.

Yes, BA quit the route in October 2000, I believe.

[ZFT]

reefrat.

British Airways have not flown the Brisbane route for at least 15-20 years.... Not sure the relevance to the current discussion.

maybe just woke up?

[Bueno Hombre]

We can imagine that the huge increase in the profitability of British Airways is almost entirely due to the fall in the value of the pound. Parasite managers who, in fact, did nothing to achieve this will receive huge bonuses. Of course this is all transitory , but manager's bonuses, unjustified as they are at this time, are only one time. Pilots salaries once increased will continue at the increased level into the indefinite future.

[old,not bold]

In the British Army, up until a few years ago, the first response to a mutiny was to sack, punish, or otherwise deal with the mutinous unit's officers, on the certain grounds that it was their fault.

Now, while we can all say with total truth that what BA has is a bunch of whingeing, overpaid Nigels cynically using their muscle to screw BA for more than they are worth by making hundreds of thousands of their customers (aka "salary payers") suffer, the blame for allowing the situation to get this far lies fairly and squarely in the IAG boardroom, who evidently have no clue about how to deal effectively with the said Nigels, who seem unable to understand that profits, just like losses, are for shareholders (aka "investors taking risks") to share, as opposed to Directors and other employees whose share of the gross profits is called "remuneration". Mind you, the Directors don't seem to understand that either.

[WHBM]

Here at London City we have BA, as in Cityflyer (not that many pax would know) with little of the above. The drinks and snacks are free on board. The crew are always great. And above all there is NO STRIKE today and they are carrying on just as normal. Doubtless with 100% loads on many routes. And yet the BA PR team seem to have been quite unable to push this fact out to the media. There must be a good few who think their LCY flights are not operating.

[FRying]

Way to go, BA guys and gals !! I'm all with you on this one.

[RexBanner]

We can imagine that the huge increase in the profitability of British Airways is almost entirely due to the fall in the value of the pound.

You keep peddling this but seeing as most expenses in aviation are denominated in USD (fuel, maintenance parts etc) and the GBP:USD exchange rate is at historic lows then how can this possibly be true?

[pittsspecialguy]

Remember your history...BA was financially featherbedded by Thatcher pre-privatisation in order to kill British Caledonian. BA was never really a great carrier. BCAL was. A truly great airline, first 402 certificate in history, invented business class, devoted employees, fantastic, dedicated cabin crew and pilots.

[Herod]

"I wish they all could be Caledonian Girls". Super cabin crew (at least on shorthaul; can't speak for longhaul). When BA had the "Shuttle" service Aberdeen to Heathrow, Caledonian ran the "Subtle" service to Gatwick. Far, far better.

[Fursty Ferret]

. Now, while we can all say with total truth that what BA has is a bunch of whingeing, overpaid Nigels cynically using their muscle to screw BA for more than they are worth

Just a bunch but I'm guessing you didn't get the job at BA when you applied...

[Icerefugee]

I'm not clever enough to know whether the pilots are either whinging or overpaid. What I am convinced about is that the fallout from this dispute has been disproportionately heightened by the incredible stupidity surrounding communication with passengers and the media. Whatever you think of the pilots' position, Balpa gave plenty warning. Management, once again, messed up. Will Mr Cruz never pick up on the point that cheap does not always mean good.

[oscarisapc]

The poor communications with pax (not for the first time) and the totally inadequate data resilience after the outage last year rather supports the pilots' contention that BA has lost the plot by curtting back infrastructure costs to such an extreme that the business is suffering. There is always a time lag between cutting costs to the bone (immediate benefit to the bottom line) and declining activity and reputation (disaster for the bottom line) which allows directors to take handsome bonuses in the interim. Sorry to say that BA seems to be on that curve now. Nice if someone could correct me.

[red9]

Wrt removal of 'travel perks' from striking flightcrew... two can play at that game.

Given that a Captain's word is final, i.e. as to who's allowed to travel, a Captain is perfectly within their rights to deny travel to any passenger.
The simple phrase of "I do not consider that your presence onboard is conducive to good order and accordingly you must leave the aeroplane" would be enough to have a passenger removed and no further reason or explanation is required of the Captain. The Captain's word is always the final arbiter.

So, BA Management types (whom have kept their 'travel perks') might find that those perks are not worth a jot when they're not allowed onboard because the BA Captain says "No" to their presence, and maybe also a similar implementation for Management staff whom are travelling on duty might help to focus some BA Management minds?

Sadly , therein lies one of the reasons for the strike. It is not really about the 11.5% at all. That Captains word is not final in BA. There would follow a person to person interview with a manager - perhaps just a telephone interview if you are lucky - inorder for them to assess your judgement call and take what they feel is appropriate action. Bullies

[ciderman]

You keep peddling this but seeing as most expenses in aviation are denominated in USD (fuel, maintenance parts etc) and the GBP:USD exchange rate is at historic lows then how can this possibly be true?


BA generates dollars and other currencies by selling tickets to London in other countries. Converted to pounds to pay salaries they buy more. Simplistic but you get the drift.

[Phantom4]

It only requires a continuous 4 or 5 days strike and no simulator checks being completed and there is a tipping point when there are not enough crews in check but I’m sure management are aware of this as will BALPA be

[Mike Oxbig]

An earlier poster stated ...”its a damned sight better than Vueling/Air Malta/Ryanair/Eurowings/Wizz etc.”. I am afraid that really says it all - you are comparing BA (known as Budget Airlines in my circle), with the exception of Air Malta perhaps, with low cost carriers. We should be comparing BA with Lufthansa, whom I fly with regularly, KLM & Air France. Having flown recently on Turkish in economy, I was stunned to receive a menu with 2 choices of hot meal on the flight from Instanbul to Munich.

[Timmy Tomkins]

I'm not clever enough to know whether the pilots are either whinging or overpaid. What I am convinced about is that the fallout from this dispute has been disproportionately heightened by the incredible stupidity surrounding communication with passengers and the media. Whatever you think of the pilots' position, Balpa gave plenty warning. Management, once again, messed up. Will Mr Cruz never pick up on the point that cheap does not always mean good.

Short answer NO. It was he who cut and expanded Vueling at the same time and presided over total chaos as the system fell over and the result was that he got BA to play with. This is standard MO in BA where managers are paid bonuses for coming in under budget with no penalty when the result of cuts is collapse. They are all in thrall to Mr O'Leary and of course having to compete with him. They have learned that everyone hates Ryanair, pax, staff et al but the profits keep rolling in.

Sure BA jocks earn plenty but in truth when you take responsibiity and skill levels required that should be the norm, not the exception.

[old,not bold]

Just a bunch but I'm guessing you didn't get the job at BA when you applied...

Ah, but I did. OK, it was then BOAC, and the job was with an Associate Company. But we still had to undergo the full recruitment process with BOAC.

[Magplug]

Apparently the spin given by the BA management easily persuades some simpletons here. The average salary of a BA pilot is £160k p/a! Really!!! Therefore anyone that gets paid more than me is an overpaid sponger.....

The Atlantic Barons on the old contract big bucks are either gone or close to retirement. The company comprises many new pilots who have either trained with BA and have the $$$$ obscene debt from the experience or the direct entry guys who have moved on from Easy or Ryanair. The ab-initios earn around £26k before deductions and the direct entry guys £45-50 with all new hires going on the new contract.

They want a pay rise linked to RPI, not one that might just keep pace with inflation. By the looks of it BA want this strike more than the pilots. Top of BA's wish-list is BALPA out of the picture. Then BA can get of with slashing costs and squeezing employees without union interference. It's all about profit, profit and more profit.

[PAXboy]

Yes, it is Magplug but as is always the case - everyone loses. The mgmt have failed in the last 20 years (as countless others have done) to manage their business for the true long term. Flight and Cabin crew are scrunched by it all and nothing helpful will come of this. Strikes rarely bring good things - especially when the public does not see the employee's problem.

We can blame who we like but it is another nail in the coffin.

[Shamrogue]

This is just boring.

It is a race to the bottom. An eternal one. You do it faster, cheaper, better. Tomorrow a compeditor will do it slightly more effectively. Management will work out a new method to do it faster, cheaper, better! Why? Well consumers want cheaper, faster.....and aspire to better! And it is a vicious circle. Because we've all less pay, we need cheaper, better, faster! Management at BA most likely wish they had the "Worlds fave airline". This won't change anytime soon - so it will be a continuous erosion of service standards until we are all standing up in the cabin, eating from paper boxes ........in an argument it is better for the environment etc. But it will be dressed up as Club class or whatever..........

[DaveReidUK]

Management will work out a new method to do it faster, cheaper, better!

As the old saying goes, pick any two.

[Icanseeclearly]

https://www.prweek.com/article/1596305/striking-pilots-largely-winning-pr-battle-against-british-airways-say-comms-pros

[Geriaviator]

Sad to see the decline of what was once a world leader. Surprised that nobody seems to recall that BA owns half the slots at Heathrow simply because they were once reserved for domestic flights -- essential to Scottish business, even more to both parts of Ireland where the train is not an option. It's a licence to print money for its foreign owners, just like most of our airports in fact. To my mind BA never got over the competition from British Midland and BCal introduced by Mrs Thatcher; as an occasional traveller I would no more consider BA than Ryanair. Good luck to the staff seeking their share of the profits.

[BitMoreRightRudder]

Strikes rarely bring good things - especially when the public does not see the employee's problem.

As has been pointed out many times. Whether the public see the problem or not is as relevant as the price of sprouts. These people are not public servants delivering life-critical services. Strikes are damaging exercises. Sometimes it is the only way forward.

[PAXboy]

Striking may appeal to many and be seen as the way forward. In my 40 years of observing British life (as an adult) I can only think of two or three occaisions when it has. They were to do with equal pay and equality of opportunites. But bear in mind, that those issues are still not resolved. Since British Mgmt sees it as a do-or-die issue, expect no way forward.

[cessnaxpilot]

Striking may appeal to many and be seen as the way forward. In my 40 years of observing British life (as an adult) I can only think of two or three occaisions when it has. They were to do with equal pay and equality of opportunites. But bear in mind, that those issues are still not resolved. Since British Mgmt sees it as a do-or-die issue, expect no way forward.

Are you saying it’s best to just comply with management in their desire to lower costs and reward management and the shareholders? Don’t advocate for yourself for a competitive wage? And by “competitive”, I mean for your industry and qualifications on a market basis.

[Bueno Hombre]

[QUOTE=Geriaviator;10567592]Sad to see the decline of what was once a world leader. Surprised that nobody seems to recall that BA owns half the slots at Heathrow simply because they were once reserved for domestic flights -- essential to Scottish business, even more to both parts of Ireland where the train is not an option...…}

Yes. I am sad to see BA Managers getting bonuses for a profit that they have done nothing to create.

[PAXboy]

cessnaxpilot
Are you saying it’s best to just comply with management in their desire to lower costs and reward management and the shareholders? Don’t advocate for yourself for a competitive wage? And by “competitive”, I mean for your industry and qualifications on a market basis.
Not at all. I am saying that mgmt have only themselves to blame for this mess. Sadly, striking will not improve the mess. Mgmt failed but everyone loses.

[reefrat]

Yes, BA quit the route in October 2000, I believe.

Sorry about that,,flew domestic BNESYD
OLD AGE IS A CURSE

[crewmeal]

Did anyone watch last night's Channel 5 programme on BA. I thought it was really interesting. What I didn't like was the Y seats being replaced from 9 a breast to 10 a breast. They look just like the short haul seats on Easy. Do they actually recline?

All that fiddling around with cabin service reminded me of my training at Cranebank. We learnt how to use a spoon and fork properly and serve from a trolley, not moan about a stiff paif of tongs! Poor thing couldn't even pick up a tart with them!

[wondrousbitofrough]

Poor thing couldn't even pick up a tart with them!

Theres more than one way to pick up a tart!

[Paul Lupp]

Yes. I am sad to see BA Managers getting bonuses for a profit that they have done nothing to create.
Personally I am sad to see any manager getting a bonus just for doing their job correctly - that is what they are being paid their salary for, in the first place.

Anyway - latest I heard on BBC News this morning is that BA Pilots/BALPA are planning a "super strike" in October to bring BA to its knees, something that will cost the airline "at least 400 million pounds" IIRC.
Is this really a sane way for any union / member of staff to carry on ? Could BA go out of business and IAG build up Iberia instead, totally unconcerned that some BA staff wipe out the company in its nominal 100th year?

[oscarisapc]

BA management are girding up for a fight. They are notifying pax due to fly at the end of the month of cancellations scheduled more than 14 days ahead to avoid compensation payments in the event of a 27 September strike so it looks like they are in no mood for compromise and are expecting further disruption. So it is hardly surprising that the pilots are not backing down either. I don't know why BA can't offer the staff shares, or similar, and a voice on the board so they can participate in the success of the airline and be involved in its future. I was a frequent BOAC flyer in the old days (got the badge etc) and it is really sad to see this situation.

[wiggy]

Could BA go out of business and IAG build up Iberia instead,

Are you suggesting IAG simply replace BA with Iberia? If so how would you envisage that working? Do you envisage Iberia taking over the UK operation, LHR slots etc.

[ATC Watcher]

Could BA go out of business and IAG build up Iberia instead, totally unconcerned that some BA staff wipe out the company in its nominal 100th year?
3 years ago I would have laughed and say no way, but watching the current Brexit debacle I must say that would not surprise me .
For most of my career I regarded the UK aviation system being CAA or BA or its safety culture and what they represented with admiration. How can they in a few years only go down where they are now ?:(

[etudiant]

Perhaps it is time for the idea of a national airline to go. The economic competition from low cost carriers is making the full service/national airlines marginal, especially as they usually have sub scale integrated operations including training, maintenance etc.
The example of the shipping industry is a relevant guide, the national carriers did not survive, but rather were replaced by the likes of a Maersk or a Carnival Cruises, specialized and ruthlessly efficient global players with only two or three surviving competitors.
If BA management shares that perception, they will be looking to reposition the enterprise accordingly, irrespective of the short term disruption. The core BA asset from that perspective is the preponderant London slot ownership, rather than the existing staff.

[wiggy]

If BA management shares that perception, they will be looking to reposition the enterprise accordingly, irrespective of the short term disruption. The core BA asset from that perspective is the preponderant London slot ownership, rather than the existing staff.

Firstly do you mean BA management, or IAG management?

Can I also ask if you are of the opinion that retaining "BA management" whilst "repositioning the enterprise" would guarantee ( as much as that is ever possible) the future of the enterprise itself?

[hunterboy]

I see that IAG have just been advised by the EU that it isn’t being classed as an EU owned airline. I also noticed that its European competitors led by LH and AF were putting pressure on the Brussels to do something about it, which could be a breakup of IAG.
What that would mean for future industrial relations is anyone’s guess. Would make it easier for BA to issue shares to its staff for profit share though.

[oscarisapc]

The example of the shipping industry is a relevant guide, the national carriers did not survive, but rather were replaced by the likes of a Maersk or a Carnival Cruises, specialized and ruthlessly efficient global players with only two or three surviving competitors.
If BA management shares that perception, they will be looking to reposition the enterprise accordingly, irrespective of the short term disruption.
That's a really interesting perspective. You might be right. If we take the example of cruises, with which I am becoming more familiar as the years advance, the old national lines taken over by Carnival still keep their national flavour eg food in the restaurants, ports of call, senior staff recruitment, language of signs etc. but are still part of one family. I was amazed to find that two totally different cruise experiences (good but that's not the point) from Cunard and Holland America Lines respectively were in essence both run by Carnival who use their massive dominance of the industry to generate economies of scale. There are advantages in having different brands for the same product supplied by a monopoly supplier. If that is the case, then pax suggesting they will never fly BA again because of poor service are wasting their time because what they really need to say is that they will never fly IAG again, which will be difficult.

[etudiant]

Firstly do you mean BA management, or IAG management?

Can I also ask if you are of the opinion that retaining "BA management" whilst "repositioning the enterprise" would guarantee ( as much as that is ever possible) the future of the enterprise itself?

I have no idea who would wind up in charge, but historically, the process has a handful of very senior managers with a small team purging the entire structure while also reslotting the survivors. So a BA manager would be even more at risk than a BA pilot.
The enterprise, in this view, rests on the effective ownership of air access to London, still the global financial hub. The restructured entity would control that asset still, no matter what the name.

[Chugalug2]

The enterprise, in this view, rests on the effective ownership of air access to London, still the global financial hub. The restructured entity would control that asset still, no matter what the name.

If by ownership of air access to London you mean the London slots, these are not owned but allocated. They can just as easily be re-allocated. If BA, by strikes, management incompetence, whatever, is unable or unwilling to provide a dependable use of those slots then they should be re-allocated. The slots are not there to provide life long employment to anyone.

The navel gazing by some here has only one logical outcome. No company is too important or too large to fail, as those employed by Pan-Am discovered.

[etudiant]

If by ownership of air access to London you mean the London slots, these are not owned but allocated. They can just as easily be re-allocated. If BA, by strikes, management incompetence, whatever, is unable or unwilling to provide a dependable use of those slots then they should be re-allocated. The slots are not there to provide life long employment to anyone.

The navel gazing by some here has only one logical outcome. No company is too important or too large to fail, as those employed by Pan-Am discovered.

You put your finger on the critical issue, who decides who gets the London slots.
I do not know what process is used to allocate them, but it was very contentious iirc last time when some were reallocated, possibly after the Pan Am demise. Obviously the government has ultimate authority, but presumably there is compensation if slots are removed by decree.
So they are a huge BA/IAG asset right now which should remain intact even if BA/IAG gets massively restructured, as long as the enterprise continues to maintain the current usage level. That leaves plenty of room for massive personnel and policy changes.

[Chugalug2]

etudiant, like so much that is coming under the spotlight these days, the concept that slots are an asset that can be bought and sold along with the operator that they are allocated to needs revisiting. BA has absorbed many airlines into its own operation (including many that preceded it as we are reminded by its so called centenary). Many of those operators held London slots that then became added to those already allocated to BA). Does BA therefore own these slots that they paid good money for when buying otherwise worthless airlines (I speak as Devil's advocate of course)? The answer legally is no. The answer politically? Anybody's guess, but I suggest that those advocating those slots be denied at their whim to the travelling public need to take into account the possibility of being hoist by their own petard.

[etudiant]

BA has absorbed many airlines into its own operation (including many that preceded it as we are reminded by its so called centenary). Many of those operators held London slots that then became added to those already allocated to BA). Does BA therefore own these slots that they paid good money for when buying otherwise worthless airlines (I speak as Devil's advocate of course)? The answer legally is no. The answer politically? Anybody's guess, but I suggest that those advocating those slots be denied at their whim to the travelling public need to take into account the possibility of being hoist by their own petard.

Totally agree, this is the critical issue and I cannot believe the BA leadership is not totally focused on keeping those slots nailed down, no matter what.
So expect a substantial BA sponsored flag waving campaign, plus have them working very diligently to stay on the right side of TPTB. I don't know how their press relations are, but this would be a good time to polish those as well.
Meanwhile, their legal staff is doubtless working hard to nail down their slot ownership claims as much as possible and war gaming the potential alternatives.
Who knows, maybe they could buy Norwegian to ensure the public continues to get served if their pilots go on strike.

[Chugalug2]

Interestingly, the government's Competition and Marketing Authority (CMA) has been having similar thoughts :-

"73. The removal of the grandfathered rights and auctioning of slots should increase market efficiency and allow for greater competition between airlines. Airlines would be able to compete to access slots periodically, which will lead to slots being used by the airlines that can use them most efficiently. New entrants would be able to increase their slot concentration quickly and be able to provide more competition to incumbent airlines on particular routes. The result of which should lead to better consumer outcomes, as airlines have a greater incentive to optimise their investment and encourage greater innovation in the subsequent use of slots. "

This from their advice to the DfT,

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/767230/cma-advice-on-impacts-of-airport-slots.pdf

The key would be future auctioning of slots, sales between operators allowed, but otherwise retained on a Use it Or Lose It basis. The words Hens, Foxes, And Chicken Coops spring to mind...