Royal Newcastle Aero Club suspends operations

[Horatio Leafblower]

News out of Maitland this weekend that the CFI at RNAC has resigned due to differences in direction with the board. A director's meeting last night stated that it would take 4-6 months to get going again, so as of last night all the Instructors have resigned also.

Very sad to see a once proud institution come to this - I have watched the (now ex-) CFI and his team build that flying school into something very impressive with a constant stream of graduates at RPL and PPL level (and CPL for all I know).
Well done Phil and best of luck for the future.

In the bigger picture, you would have to worry about the future of the airfield.

It's all a terrible shame.

[john_tullamarine]

Bugga, I did my PPL with Jack the Black and Stan Hone there back in the 60s. It was a ripper spot then - no idea what the story is at the moment but can only hope that they collectively get their stuff in a pile and get it back on track.

One wonders why it would take 6 months to sort the bits out ?

[Alice Kiwican]

That’s a great shame. I was there about a month ago and they were going great guns.

[Squawk7700]

One wonders why it would take 6 months to sort the bits out ?

I’ve heard the same thing before, many times over.

Usually an arrangement ensues with another club or school in the interim so they can keep going. If no such arrangement exists, it seems to take ages to get up and running again. Hard to believe that one resignation could cause such a disruption, however it sadly does

[Horatio Leafblower]

Usually an arrangement ensues with another club or school in the interim so they can keep going.

How long do you think it will take CASA to approve a "major amendment" to a Part 141 Operations Manual/Exposition?

[LeadSled]

How sad.
"Back in the day", the DCA Director General was the very active patron of RNAC, I wonder if the current CASA "senior" management "team" even know where Rutherford is??
I would love to know the full story.
Tootle pip!!

[The name is Porter]

One wonders why it would take 6 months to sort the bits out ?

Because key personnel are in very short supply. Because Boards that hire key personnel cannot get their head around the responsibilities attached to the position and offer remuneration that could be earned cleaning toilets.

Usually an arrangement ensues with another club or school in the interim so they can keep going. If no such arrangement exists, it seems to take ages to get up and running again. Hard to believe that one resignation could cause such a disruption, however it sadly does

Ask glenb about these 'arrangements' It would be a brave organisation that would enter into such an arrangement in this climate.

​​​​​​​How long do you think it will take CASA to approve a "major amendment" to a Part 141 Operations Manual/Exposition?

​​​​​​​Don't hold ya breath Squawk.

[Progressive]

How long do you think it will take CASA to approve a "major amendment" to a Part 141 Operations Manual/Exposition?

For a change of key personnel...no time at all. If the organization has a process in place for appointment of key personnel CASA needs to be notified within:

7 days of the change occurring (for previously approved deputies named in the Ops manual)
3 days of the change occurring (for people not previously named as deputy)

A more likely scenario is the they do not have a process in place (and are therefore reliant on CASA assessment) or that they do not have any instructors up to the task on staff and expect the recruitment process to take that long.

[The name is Porter]

Progressive.............yeah, nah.

[Progressive]

Progressive.............yeah, nah.
Which part, the direct requirements from part 141 I quoted or the 10+ organisation I personally know of that have the procedure and use it?

[BigPapi]

Would CASA even approve a 141 without suitable alternate personnel being named in each position to prevent something like this happening?

[Progressive]

Would CASA even approve a 141 without suitable alternate personnel being named in each position to prevent something like this happening?
Yes. That is a business risk not a safety risk. Many operators have enough trouble finding one suitable person for the role.

[Stationair8]

A very sad day, over the years lots of people have learnt to fly there, or been employed as instructors there.

Must leave the the Royal Vic Aero Club as the last of the Royal prefixed flying clubs still going?

[Vag277]

Royal Aero Club of WA still going strong

[Clare Prop]

Royal Aero Club of WA is still going.

I don't know anything about this particular situation, but the whole thing of having committees full of amateurs who want cheap flying for themselves interfering with the running of the flying school is something I have seen over and over again. In the past I have managed aircraft on behalf of clubs, even with a very clear contract it has always ended with them telling me how to run my business, even "white anting" my own clients right under my nose. It only takes one rotten apple and every committee has one.

Might be easier just to pay tax like the rest of us.

[Clare Prop]

Would CASA even approve a 141 without suitable alternate personnel being named in each position to prevent something like this happening?

Yes they do, I have no alternate people but it means that when I am "absent" not even the Grade 1s can work. The definition of "absent" isn't as clear as I would like it to be.

I believe this is different for a 142, perhaps someone else can clarify.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

And it all began in August 1928...…Can they make 'the ton'..?

Where it all began ? The First Aircraft - Royal Newcastle Aero Club (http://www.rnac.com.au/club-membership/history/where-it-all-began-the-first-aircraft/)

Australia's first 'Aero Club'?

Used to fly into RNAC West Maitland from BK quite regularly in 'de good ole days' of the early / mid 60's - hour building etc for CPL, just 'for a cup of coffee', usually on a 'shared' basis.
The hospitality was always GREAT, and the number of flies in the cabin on departure ensured that should the engine fail on T/O....no problem....

Good Luck RNAC - you deserve it !!

Cheers

[Ixixly]

Not much has changed with the Hospitality Griffo, was always a delight to stop in at Maitland and have a yarn with Phil and his crew in recent years. RNAC had themselves a golden goose there with him and the way it was run and somehow they've still managed to kill it, bloody shame but going to be a gift to someone who offers to take them on for what they deserve. Wish them the best of luck and hope they're all gainfully employed very shortly which I'm sure they will be!

[Sunfish]

If CASA wish to put the club out of business, can’t they just delay the approval process for ever?

[Horatio Leafblower]

If CASA wish to put the club out of business, can’t they just delay the approval process for ever?

They could, but I don't think anyone is suggesting that's the case here.
CASA's bureaucratic systems are so onerous that even CASA can't maintain them. The amount of bull**** paperwork that accompanies every regulatory function is mind blowing, and of course the (shrinking) Industry now has to fund this.

I was fortunate enough to have a meeting with Barnaby (local member) about this and his advice was "you know what boys? If it's too hard, my advice as a small country accountant is just walk away and have a nice life doing something else"

Where would small country towns be if we all took that advice?

The whole point of the meeting, St Barnabas, is that IT DOESN'T BLOODY NEED TO BE THIS BLOODY HARD.

[Alpha Whiskey Bravo]

I'm with you Horatio, It doesn't need to be this difficult.

When we first became a Part 142, I ended up putting in a Significant Change Request to change the process for making Significant Changes! The process to make what we would normally call a "small" change required a full on risk assessment, a formal assessment of the risk assessment by the change management committee, send off the change to CASA and wait for them to approve the change. Minimum turn around was about 4 weeks with one change taking just on 12 months for a change of address. Yes a change of address is considered a Significant Change requiring CASA approval before you can pack up your desk and move to the new building you are probably paying rent on waiting for CASA to approve....

Over and out.....

[MagnumPI]

I don't know anything about this particular situation, but the whole thing of having committees full of amateurs who want cheap flying for themselves interfering with the running of the flying school is something I have seen over and over again. In the past I have managed aircraft on behalf of clubs, even with a very clear contract it has always ended with them telling me how to run my business, even "white anting" my own clients right under my nose. It only takes one rotten apple and every committee has one.

Depends on the club of course, but not every committee or board is "full of amateurs" who want "cheap flying".

Our club (which incorporates a flying school and engineering facility) has strict rules in place; directors receive no fees for their service and no discount whatsoever. We believe that this ensures the directors are in it for the right reasons. Just about every member of our board is a working professional, some are highly qualified, with a good mix of backgrounds from aviation and non-aviation industries.

[Sunfish]

My experience Clare was the exact opposite. The running of the flying school took precedence over the interests of the members to the point where I found it difficult to book and hire a certain aircraft for some touring because it would muck up some foreign students training schedule. The aircraft hadn’t even been booked. They just wanted it available in a few weeks time when they had finished some classroom IFR or cross country nav. I left the club because there was no value whatsoever in staying. Everything was geared to churning out foreign students and members were regarded as a nuisance.

By “value” I don’t just mean cheap aircraft hire. I mean access to experienced instructors and training that could advance my very limited knowledge of airmanship. There was none to be had. The experienced, capable older folk (male and female) had either left of their own accord or been pushed out in favour of cheap instructors pushing out a very low quality commercial foreign product as fast as possible.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Re 'and his advice was "you know what boys? If it's too hard, my advice as a small country accountant is just walk away and have a nice life doing something else"=left

And 'That', fellow GA aviators, just about sums it all up...…..Unfortunately...…

No Cheers here...NOPE none at all...….
:-(

[TBM-Legend]

Many flying "clubs" and groups in the USA where shared ownership in a number of aircraft works well. Maintenance is contracted out and the "club/group" has an honorary manager who looks after aircraft bookings. FRom what I've seen works well! [I realise that there has been or are a few here already]

[Clare Prop]

My experience Clare was the exact opposite. The running of the flying school took precedence over the interests of the members to the point where I found it difficult to book and hire a certain aircraft for some touring because it would muck up some foreign students training schedule. The aircraft hadn’t even been booked. They just wanted it available in a few weeks time when they had finished some classroom IFR or cross country nav. I left the club because there was no value whatsoever in staying. Everything was geared to churning out foreign students and members were regarded as a nuisance.

By “value” I don’t just mean cheap aircraft hire. I mean access to experienced instructors and training that could advance my very limited knowledge of airmanship. There was none to be had. The experienced, capable older folk (male and female) had either left of their own accord or been pushed out in favour of cheap instructors pushing out a very low quality commercial foreign product as fast as possible.

Yes I hear of that too, gone too far the other way! Certainly nothing clubby about training huge amounts of foreign students, apart from the favourable tax status. Funny when I was managing aircraft for a club that had 5, they were cross hired out for a few months contract Monday-Friday ...to another "club" training huge amounts of foreign students! The committee had seen the dollar signs and agreed to it, but the everyday weekday flying members were furious. You can never keep everyone happy!

[geeup]

Very sad news.
Years ago I flew a Pitts out of Rutherford & obtained a formation endorsement.