ASIC skit

[Sunfish]

For those who haven’t seen it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR0HipkkhUqqKEl37-C3yZVMUfGMDHvq_hooCrF-Vab0XVz8Pj2WkyvfeLw&v=OeQ8sX8E3EE

[thorn bird]

Gold Sunny, Gold.

about all that's left for us these days a good laugh.

Incidentally, rumour has it you can get a perfectly good ASIC in Punchbowl for twenty bucks.

You couldn't make this sh$%t up.

[YPJT]

Next week:
Hitler finds out he’s been refused an ASIC due to an adverse criminal history.

rumour has it you can get a perfectly good ASIC in Punchbowl for twenty bucks.

id question the perfectly good part

[smiling monkey]

id question the perfectly good part

It doesn't have to be perfectly good because no one checks them. It's the biggest aviation scam in the world. There should be a government inquiry in to this to see who benefits from this scam.

[rcoight]

It doesn't have to be perfectly good because no one checks them. It's the biggest aviation scam in the world. There should be a government inquiry in to this to see who benefits from this scam.

Couldn’t agree more.

[SIUYA]

There should be a government inquiry in to this to see who benefits from this scam.

Well, at the cost of issue/renewal, it's clearly not benefitting those who have pay for the (so-called) privilege. :ugh:

So, I'd say the only ones who really benefit from the $$$s that have to be paid for the ASIC idiocy are the government and the issuers. :mad:

Thorn Bird......can you send me the address of the Punchbowl outfit please? :p

[Capt Fathom]

What would happen if we all just let our ASICs expire and just continued on doing what we do?

[rcoight]

What would happen if we all just let our ASICs expire and just continued on doing what we do?

Excellent idea. However, there are more than enough drones to probably negate any effect.

[Aussie Bob]

What would happen if we all just let our ASICs expire and just continued on doing what we do?

PLEASE! Let's make this happen.

[The sod]

Looks like the interrogation room at Fort Fumble

[Rated De]

Looks like the interrogation room at Fort Fumble

F Troop were far more strategically potent than the idiot fest in Canberra.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Just a small factual error: CASA didn't introduce ASIC's. They are just an issuing authority as are many other organisations.

[Lead Balloon]

TIEW is correct. ASICs were not the 'brainchild' - perhaps brainfart would be the more accurate description - of CASA.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

no, it wasn't the CASA. it was DoTaRS and in particular, a reject from the department of health who had this idea about kerosene baths...

[CaptainMidnight]

I'm sure someone will arrange a correction to the video ...

[Manwell]

You know, the most stupid part of the whole thing is that we are sitting around complaining about all the **** they throw at us, instead of working together and doing anything about it. No wonder they think we're easy marks.... because we are.

[YPJT]

Manwell,
I would not say that the pilot fraternity are easy marks, however they have been conspicuous by their absence in the plethora of consultation that has taken place over several years.. Even the TWU has in the past had their people attending and pushing their concerns.
So much of the ASIC requirements are now tied up in legislation which is neither quickly or easily changed even if you are able to give the Department a compelling case and get them to agree and take it to the minister.

[zanthrus]

How about mass civil disobedience and tell em to all get stuffed? They can’t ground everyone.

[Lead Balloon]

Commercial pilots won’t civil disobedience sh*t. They’ve been there and done that, and lost.

[YPJT]

How about mass civil disobedience and tell em to all get stuffed? They can’t ground everyone
They will grab one or two recalcitrants, put them through the wringer and everyone else will go "sh!t" and quietly clip their ASICs back on.

[thorn bird]

Agree with Lead balloon and YPJT, waste of time and energy, look at Hong Kong, millions on the streets and in the end likely a lot of people will get hurt.
Unfortunately the Bureaucrats have us by the short and curlies and there's not much that we can do about it. Logical argument and facts do no good, too much money going into too many pockets. Short of catching the brown paper bag being handed over, corruption, especially the so called 'Soft' corruption that is rampant in Australia is very difficult to prove, without some sort of judicial enquiry and I can't see that happening. There's just not enough of us to influence anybody in government that the cost of such an enquiry would be justified. the axiom, Money talks bullsh@#t walks, was ever thus.
Can anyone imagine CAsA agreeing that they are incapable of writing clear, concise and effective legislation?
Can anyone imagine the government agreeing that the so called 'privatisation' of aviation infrastructure has done nothing but create massive parasitic monopolies, or opened the way for development sharks to siphon huge amounts of money to foreign climes, with very little being spent on improving aviation infrastructure?
Can anyone imagine government admitting that aspects of their security program are nothing but a very expensive sideshow?

[Mach E Avelli]

This whole ripoff, farcical ASIC process is easily fixed. Simply require all pilot and licensed engineers to undergo a 'once off' fit & proper person assessment. Any subsequent criminal acts would be notifiable and the FPP could be withdrawn. Ergo, if you are naughty, no more licence.
Entry to secure areas would then only require the FPP to carry his/her licence and some other acceptable photo ID, such as a passport or driver's licence.
Works just fine in NZ.

Re civil disobedience - it could be effective if done en-mass. If everyone agreed to turn up for duty on a given date (having duly notified the authorities of that date) sans ASIC, but with other proper ID and their licences, what would likely happen? Aviation may cease temporarily, government would be forced to intervene and a process as described above could be fast tracked.

[thorn bird]

Mach E,
ever tried to herd cats?

[Mach E Avelli]

Cats would be easier to organise than pilots.
Government is another matter. There are ways to bring petty bureaucrats to heel. Hopefully, somewhere amongst this current mob would be a Minister with the cojones to reign in the ASIC Empire if they shut down aviation for wont of a pissy little plastic card.

But sadly we know the collective for pilots.... A 'whinge'. That is all most of them do. So, you are right, the ASIC will remain a pox on all of us.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Simply require all pilot and licensed engineers to undergo a 'once off' fit & proper person assessment.
They do that now. Just "once-off" every two years.
Any subsequent criminal acts would be notifiable and the FPP could be withdrawn. Ergo, if you are naughty, no more licence.
That's how ASICs already work.
what would likely happen?
The authorities will not let you in. They don't want a fine or penalty either. Then you can't turn up for work and your employer sacks you. It is not the controlling authorities problem you are not wearing your ASIC. It is not your company's problem you are not wearing your ASIC. If you do get in, then you get a fine. The world won't stop. You'll just end up owing money.
government would be forced to intervene
It's the government's process.

[Mach E Avelli]

All true if individuals go it alone. But if several thousand commercial pilots and a similar number of LAMEs gave notice of intent to engage in ‘civil disobedience’ (for want of a better word) and showed resolve in carrying it out, the ASIC could be made to go away (for licensed personnel at least), or the process made much less onerous.
Unlike 1989, we are at a sweet spot in the employment cycle where pilots can not be replaced in large numbers, so mass sackings would not occur.
There was a time when Aussies had a reputation for challenging and even disobeying authority when they thought it idiotic. Not any more. We are law abiding to the point of mindlessness.
So, this thread has degenerated into another futile whinge about our aviation security system, along with all the other whinges about big bad CASA.

But the OP’s skit was indeed funny.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Works just fine in NZ.
You mean the NZ Airport Identity Cards (https://www.avsec.govt.nz/sector/industry/aic/) which seem to be much the same as our ASIC's?

[Mach E Avelli]

The Kiwi card application process is relatively simple, costs a mere $60 and is good for three years.
Also, there are many airports where it is not necessary, so many pilots get by without it.
Compare with our own ASIC.........

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

However at the airports where you are required to have and display one, the systems are basically the same, so the assertion that the NZ ID system is different is not correct. Like Australia, you are required to have and display an ID card if at a Security Designated Airport. The difference is that NZ only has 5 of them (effectively international ops, or RPT aircraft with 90 or more seats). The problem in Aus is not the ID system, it is the over zealous categorisation of airports and operations for security purposes.

[Lead Balloon]

And the higher cost.

And the shorter duration.

And the unnecessary proof of identity requirements.

And it doesn’t work.

But apart from that, it’s a great system.

[thorn bird]

Or as Arther used to say "What a nice little earner"

[BigPapi]

I have been refused airside access (while working) to an airport, despite possessing and displaying a valid AUS ASIC, simply because I didn't have a separate ID card for that specific airport. What a great system and a great use of $250.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

I didn't say it was a great system. Unfortunately ASICs are just a small part of a much larger broken system, other parts of which need to be fixed first before you can tackle ASICs

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

I have been refused airside access
An ASIC is not an access card. It is purely a government sanctioned ID card issued for a specific purpose. If an Airport has separate access or ID requirements, then so be it. Just because you hold an AUS ASIC doesn't mean you can go wherever and do whatever you like.

[BigPapi]

Thanks for implying I was heading off to do "whatever I like", rather than, my job.

--Should also be noted that only possessing an ASIC was justification enough to enter other airside areas of this airport

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

I don't make the rules, champ. I just follow them like everyone else.
Should also be noted that only possessing an ASIC was justification enough to enter other airside areas of this airport
No, it's not the justification. Your authorisation from the owner or controller of the place and having a lawful reason to be there was the justification. Possessing and displaying an ASIC is a condition of entry. Just because you have an ASIC does not mean you have access.

[Mach E Avelli]

....in other words, it is not fit for purpose.

[cattletruck]

it was DoTaRS and in particular, a reject from the department of health who had this idea about kerosene baths...

Who exactly is this reject?

If civil disobedience is on order then I would be inclined to start small and let the ASIC renewal lapse for a year or two. So far mine has lapsed 9 years.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

in other words, it is not fit for purpose.
No, some just have a fundamental lack of understanding of what the purpose actually is.

[Lead Balloon]

And the purpose of an ASIC is to provide that very special kind of warm inner glow of security that can only be generated by a complete (and very expensive) facade.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Same process to get a passport. Must be government thing. What they want is a valid document that provides evidence of the start of the person’s identity in Australia. Only the Cat 1 docs provide that.

[smiling monkey]

What they want is a valid document that provides evidence of the start of the person’s identity in Australia.

And they want that for every renewal you do as well. Does the start of a person's identity in Australia some how change after 2 years?

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Yep, it's a messed up system. You would think that if you had supplied the information to get the initial ASIC, that that fact would be enough to tick the box for the renewal. Same with a passport. If it's been expired for more than three years then you go through the whole rigmarole again. I mean if they gave you a passport once, surely that fact should flag that they've seen your birth certificate.
There is no mention of ASIC renewals in the regs. They are all effectively treated as new applications every 2 years, as that has been deemed the time between background checks that is acceptable. The only (very indirect) reference to renewals in the Auscheck Regulations is that they may charge a higher fee for an initial background check than for a subsequent check.

[YPJT]

And with your birth certificate it has to be the full one, not an extract or one of those colourful celebratory Certs that a few have tried to use. If you were born outside Australia it has to be citizenship cert or visa with your foreign passport. Don’t bother getting copies of your visa for the application as the issuing body has to run a VEVO check anyway.
As Traffic said, the whole thing is a mess and not likely to let up.
Auscheck fees have been steady for about the last four or five years and are due for an increase.

[lucille]

Traffic... you appear to be an ASIC guru. Might I ask you to peruse the CASA website on the topic of AVID and tell me who and what they are intended for.

(I know what I’ve read, but consensus opinion says otherwise)

[YPJT]

Aviation Transport Security Regulations
r6.55 Exercise of Privileges of Flight Crew Licenses.

You only need an ASIC to allow you to access a security controlled airport. Regardless, you need to have undergone a security check to exercise your licence, that's why the alternative AVID is available

[longrass]

How about mass civil disobedience and tell em to all get stuffed? They can’t ground everyone.

They have done it before.

My dad has a gun license from 1994 that says issued in perpetuity. Can’t be used today.

[Car RAMROD]

Once we’ve gone through all the ID document presentation stuff and got an ASIC, shouldn’t we be able to use the old ASIC to get a new ASIC?

Oh wait. Logic.
I’ll leave now..

[Captn Rex Havack]

Are there any sane beauracrats anywhere in aviation these days with ANY common sense????????.

So I apply again for an ASIC renewal. Gives me the shjts before I even start because I know I have to re scan and resend them the same documents I sent them two years ago, and 2 years before that,
and two years before that, and two years before that etc etc..
But this year I even had to add my marriage certificate and a "identification in the community" - a bank statement, speeding fine - something with my name and address.

So I send them (YET AGAIN)..
* birth certificate - front and back
* drivers licence - front and back
* pilots licence
* marriage certificate - front and back
* identification in the community - bank statement
* passport - front and back
* photo of my rough mug

1. For God's sake, how much proof of ID do you idiots need?????????
2. Why am I sending you these same documents every two years??????????

And then to complete the stupidity, they write to me and tell me the photo I have supplied is the same one
I supplied them four years ago, send a new one.

So the photo I sent them they have on file from 4 years ago - ok, I may have a few more wrinkles, send a current photo.
BUT IF YOU HAVE THE PHOTO ON FILE, YOU ALSO HAVE THE OTHER 240 DOCUMENTS ON FILE. USE THEM.

So I got up this morning, and with hair all over the place, PJs on, sleep in my eyes, I got a photo taken. The worst photo of me ever.
My wife says "but that horrible photo, people will see it on your ASIC."

And I replied that "since ASICs came into force, I have NEVER EVER been asked to show my ASIC."

I'm off to join the Priesthood.

[VH-MLE]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/354x331/picture1_9de78921e3f39dbd57f44ccdf81945c5e1d86838.png
I would love to send this as my ASIC photo - the odds are it would get through (+ enhance my appearance too)...

[Roy Nolland]

Rex,
Sounds like you are getting a bit more shafted than the average ASIC applicant for some reason.

If you think it is tough now, well take a deep breath because by the time you go to renew again, the whole thing is going to be run by the Department. Planned for some time in 2023. Unless a there is a change of government and the current minister's decision is reversed. All 20 odd issuing bodies are going to be shut down and all applications will be handled by public servants. Good luck with that.

[Chronic Snoozer]

The ASIC renewal process is the very definition of insanity.

[VC9]

This is just typical of the beaurocratic process in Australia.
I'v been waiting 3 months for CASA Medical to review my Class 1 medical, still no reply even though I've been told it's in the urgent pile.
A friend, who is a permanent resident of the USA living in New York, but has a Mexican passport, finally received his tourist visa to attend my wedding two months after his application. Unfortunately it was two weeks too late to attend the wedding.

[cooperplace]

And with your birth certificate it has to be the full one, not an extract or one of those colourful celebratory Certs that a few have tried to use.
But which still cost a fortune and are issued by the same govt dept as full birth certificates, but the govt won't accept them: another scam!

[topdrop]

For one of my renewals, I just put the month and year that I moved address as I couldn't recall the actual day of the month. I was told an actual date was required. Told them again I couldn't remember and was told just put the 1st of the month down. Asked what's the difference between an inaccurate date and no day of the month - they are both wrong, but no day is more truthful. Told that's how the system works :ugh::ugh::ugh: