Student jumps to their death

[TempoTCu]

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/cambridge-university-student-breaks-open-door-of-plane-and-jumps-to-her-death/news-story/314a342bf0ea527442366203aef21d66

Does anyone have a photo of a Cessna C168?

[pattern_is_full]

No such thing.

Original Sun article here - shows a photo of a "re-creation" of the incident by police, and seems to show a C172/182-type interior.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9627311/alana-cutland-dies-plane-fall-madagascar-student/

Poor reporting or a typo or faulty "auto-correct", I expect.

[Pinkman]

This is very sad....without knowing the exact circumstances it reminded me of Donald Crowhurst and his boat Teignmouth Electron on the ill-fated solo round the world voyage. He is presumed to have committed suicide when it became clear he would - in his mind - let down his supporters and sponsors and being alone with no support structure ...cracked and ended it all. Hopefully lessons will be learned from this.

[n5296s]

Does anyone have a photo of a Cessna C168?
No but it's very similar to the Cessna 173.

[roland0]

I can only imagine it's a 172/182, very odd.

I guess someone said it somewhere and the press has just run with it.

[why panic]

It's really, really difficult to force open the doors in flight against the prop wash - and with two passengers trying to stop you. I find this story completely implausible.

[PerPurumTonantes]

It's really, really difficult to force open the doors in flight against the prop wash - and with two passengers trying to stop you. I find this story completely implausible.
Difficult but not impossible. For a bit of fun, masquerading as training, my instructor showed me how you can steer a 172 by opening left and right doors in flight. Just in case you happen to have lost aileron and rudder while still somehow keeping elevator control ;)

[Andrewgr2]

Looking at it another way - once someone has got themself halfway out of the door the passenger in the back seat and pilot trying to maintain control of the plane would seriously struggle to get them back in with the airflow holding the door against them being pulled back in. Likely that they were halfway out before the others could react.

[RAD_ALT_ALIVE]

As someone who believes nothing I hear and only half of what I see, my first reaction is the unusual nature and details of this incident; the interior of the aircraft shows that it has no front right seat, yet it has a back seat. This seems to be a very unusual configuration for a four seat single; it's neither in a full pax / parachuting / cargo configuration.

Next, the only story about the event comes from the two survivors. There is absolutely no way that the deceased could have 'surprised' either of the other two occupants for the reasons already given; she would have had no previous experience in forcing open Cessna doors (especially during cruise with the high forces required as already mentioned), so there would have been quite some time while she (a) undid her seatbelt, (b) suddenly lunged forward towards the door, (c) grappled with the door handle and started to push on the door. Startled onlookers in the cabin would likely have had more than enough time for the startle effect to diminish enough in order for them to react to this odd behavior.

Perhaps the event did occur, but not as some would want the world to believe.

[silverhammer]

Obviously I wasn't there so I don't know what happened but I was in a Cessna 206 which had not long taken off from Dallas Fort Worth doing about 80 knots when the front passenger accidentally opened his door and panicked - door did not swing shut despite prop wash - perhaps because of high wing? passenger was more worried about losing his hat than realising he might fall out - he had either failed to properly attach his seatbelt or somehow undid it during this - it took pilot holding onto his leg with his right hand me unbuckling myself in rear seat and reaching over him to hold him in and eventually get door shut.

[Pilot DAR]

Cessna doors, if opened, will trail a little open, and not easily be closed in flight. For the right side doors whose window cannot be easily closed, there's nothing sound to grab on the inside of the door to pull that hard on. If the window opens,open it to grab the window frame, to close the door. A person could get out the door in flight, but they'd have to work on it, they're not going to just fall out.

There's no such thing as a C 168, it's a careless typo. The aircraft pictured is either a 172, or 182. The rest of the story is perhaps true, perhaps dramatized....

[Airclues]

the interior of the aircraft shows that it has no front right seat

It looks to me as though the right front seat as been leaned forward (to allow access to the rear seats).

[Dupre]

The rear upper door segments on the C208 and some C400 series (I only flew the C402 and C404) are very easy to open in flight. In fact one caravan I flew had a loose latch and would fairly regularly pop the left aft door open in a little turbulence.

Not saying that it was one of these types but it clearly wasn't a C168. 😆

[aterpster]

There was, or is, a Cessna 162. It is in the light sport airplane category.

No 168, though.

[surely not]

The 162 was only a two seater so that rules it out of consideration.

It does seem that the story doesn't add up in many ways. The police need to follow a robust line of questioning with the two survivors I suggest.

[Timmy Tomkins]

They are now saying anti malarial medication may have been a factor. Larium can have a pretty awful effect on some people, so I do wonder if that may be the case.

[GordonR_Cape]

Well, its on the BBC now, so you can't just blame the Sun: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-49192865
A Cambridge University student fell to her death in Madagascar after opening the door of a small plane in mid-air, police have said.

Alana Cutland, 19, from Milton Keynes in Buckinghamshire, died in July, the Foreign Office confirmed.

Police on the African island said it was not yet clear why she opened the door of the light aircraft.

One theory being investigated is that she may have suffered a severe reaction to anti-malaria drugs.

[old,not bold]

It's really, really difficult to force open the doors in flight against the prop wash - and with two passengers trying to stop you. .....

Not really; if you are determined to get out you only need a gap of, I dunno, 30cm/10 inches to slide through. What's difficult is to open the door the full 90 degrees. I confess that I've never tried to open a C172 door in flight, but I have done it in an Auster to drop bags of mail to troops on exercise.

And it was the pilot and 1 passenger trying to hold her back, not 2 passengers. Either the girl or the other passenger would have been in the front RH seat for C of G management, I would have thought; I have never flown a C172 or similar with 2 in the back and just me in the front and I wouldn't want to try. Either way, the other passenger would not have found it easy to grab and hold her, let alone pull her back, and nor would the pilot while trying to fly the aircraft.

[pattern_is_full]

The planform of a small Cessna (in fact most small GA planes) is basically shaped like an airfoil. It's just a function of fitting "fat" cabin and engine space into the most streamlined shape possible.

It will produce Bernoulli/Venturi suction to pop open unlatched doors and windows - up to the point that the suction pull balances with the slipstream/propwash "push" - a few inches or cms.

[thcrozier]

I've had the front door pop open in a Bonanza, not a Cessna. It trails about 3 or 4 inches open and is very difficult to open further or close. In my case it happened just after takeoff at about 100kts. We had to come back around and land to get it shut.

[pattern_is_full]

In my case it happened just after takeoff at about 100kts. We had to come back around and land to get it shut.

Very smart move, sir - safer than trying to mess with the door in flight. /thread drift off/

[anchorhold]

Journalists have jumped to the conclusion that since it is likely the student would be taking antimalarial tablets, that Larium might be to blame. Quite how they might know what antimalarial she might be taking. I have to say I first took Larium in 2001 and there was a lot of speculation its links with mental health problems and suicide, oddly most of the cases as I recall, seemed to be young women. I'm not sure if any scientific link was ever made with mental health problems and Larium and it has now been around for twenty years. The only thing was at the time, my AME instructed me as a pilot not to take it, I think that was more down to the potential problems with pilot disorientation.

[tmmorris]

Wasn’t there an incident where two idiots tried to do aeros in a Bonanza, broke it, tried to bail out and ended up wedged in the door as they couldn’t exit in flight? Admittedly it was probably in some sort of spin by then.

[dsc810]

Do not we all remember something similar in the UK in Jan 2002 - over the Brize zone
Cessna 172 - passenger jumped out

[Just the fax maam]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/01/cambridge-student-feared-have-leapt-death-light-plane-research/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

A Cambridge University student described as a “bright, independent young woman" forced open the door of a light plane and leapt 5,000ft to her death during a research trip to Madagascar.The parents of Alana Cutland, 19, had become so concerned about her state of mind they sent a family friend to the island to bring their daughter home.But it now appears that on the first leg of the flight back to the UK Miss Cutland grew so agitated she fought off the friend before jumping from the Cessna light plane.

The friend, 51-year-old Ruth Johnson, is understood to have grappled with the student in a desperate attempt to prevent her falling from the plane last Thursday.At one stage the Cessna’s pilot is also thought to have grabbed Miss Cutland’s leg in a bid to stop her.But local police said Miss Cutland, from Milton Keynes, was able to free herself from their “exhausted” grip as the plane flew across the island, off the coast of east Africa.

[Speed of Sound]

The parents of Alana Cutland, 19, had become so concerned about her state of mind they sent a family friend to the island to bring their daughter home.

This would seem to put the kybosh on RAD_ALT_ALIVE’s conspiracy theory, as there were clearly serious concerns about the woman’s mental health before she even boarded the flight.

[Reverserbucket]

Following a mid-air between a PA28 and C152 nearly ten years ago, I understand one of the students in the 152 is believed to have jumped from altitude to his death. Lighter door than larger Cessna's but similar forces required.
NTSB Identification: WPR09FA437A (https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20090909X44833&key=1)

[Pearly White]

I've twice had Piper doors open on me just after takeoff. Once in a PA28, and once in a PA38. If Piper brings out a PA48 I'm not driving one.
There was enough suction/cabin pressure from the ventilation to pop the door ajar, but enough pressure from the external airflow no prevent it opening further. Couldn't open it to slam it, couldn't pull it shut. My solution, as an 18 y.o., 16 hrs in his log flying scholarship student on his first solo cross-country, was to climb to 5,000 ft, fully stall it, at which point I could open the door to slam it shut properly, and proceed to my next waypoint - inside the Boscombe Down MATZ, if I recall correctly.

Didn't bother writing that particular incident up in my logbook.

Reckon someone would need to be having a full-blown psychotic incident to muster enough strength to push the door open enough to get out. Dreadfully sad for the student and her family.

[Reverserbucket]

But clearly not in a light Cessna, Pearly White?

[ReddestBaron]

Maybe the simple answer to the aircraft type is not to stare blindly at the Cessna but to suggest that this may have been a Partenavia 168???
That might also put paid to the propwash theory as the resistance on a twin-engined P 168 may be less severe than on a single engined Cessna?

[Airclues]

ReddestBaron

Not a Partenavia 168. Photo of the actual aircraft here;

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7314591/Cambridge-student-Alana-Cutland-hanging-buffeting-plane-3-700-feet-TWO-minutes.html

[DaveReidUK]

Not a Partenavia 168.

Which doesn't exist.

[Pilot DAR]

The airplane pictured is a Cessna 182E. Though difficult to get yourself out the door in flight, if you worked at it you could. The open door will stream 4 to 6 inches open, being more difficult to close or open more. However, if a person forced themselves out the door and made it part way out, pulling them back in would be extremely difficult, as the streamlining door would pinch on them. I would estimate that a person whose torso was mostly out the door would be near impossible to pull back in, even if they wanted back in. I speak this as a former jump pilot in many types of Cessnas. Once a jumper is part way out, they're not coming back in. and that's with a jump door, as opposed to a regular door. There would be no way that the pilot or other passenger could have made a better outcome once the passenger was part way out the door.

[Maoraigh1]

Sideslip would affect the open door. I've had the door open solo in a Pa28 and with a pax in a C152.
I've never tried keeping the ball in the middle in a Cessna while holding onto to someone (who is struggling) with my right hand, arm at full stretch.

[farsouth]

Do not we all remember something similar in the UK in Jan 2002 - over the Brize zone
Cessna 172 - passenger jumped out

Yes, definitely possible...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nish_Bruce

[Chris2303]

Desperation to complete the task will add to the young lady's strength.

Am I alone on here in feeling sorrow at her passing?

[treadigraph]

Yes, definitely possible...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nish_Bruce

Pretty sure that's not the only one out of a 172 and didn't a woman open the air stair and jump from a King Air on approach to Leavesden about 30 years ago.

[glob99]

Reminds me of this,

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Woman-Who-Leapt-From-Plane-Fought-Off-Attempt-to-3236673.php



I can see her getting the door open using her body weight and the strength in her legs.

[krismiler]

If she was sitting in the front passenger seat and slid it all the way back she could crack the door open enough to squeeze through, particularly if the aircraft was sideslipping and there was less pressure on that side. Once partially out, gravity and slipstream would do the rest.

Any news paper which gets the manufacturer's name right is doing well, let alone the correct type. Stock photographs are often used which is all a Sun reader needs.

[Manwell]

They are now saying anti malarial medication may have been a factor. Larium can have a pretty awful effect on some people, so I do wonder if that may be the case.

That's where the evidence seems to point Timmy. There are quite a few prescription drugs listing psychotic side-effects in the literature, so this, perhaps in association with her "difficulty managing her personal life and studies" were the cause. If this is the case, it's highly unlikely investigators would dare to implicate a widely prescribed pharmaceutical drug in her death, or bother to investigate her relationships with lecturers. If "The Mentalist" was on the case, that's where he'd be looking....

[Cmon-PullUP]

If the pilot had put in a bit of firm left rudder while pushing a very mildly negative G together with taking the power off the prop (minimizing prop wash), she would have been straight back into the plane again, and the door could be closed without effort.
Likewise if he put in a bit of right rudder and pulled a slightly positive G and increased power a bit, it would be nearly impossible for her to get back into the plane.
This is very normal when flying skydivers, even if the door there is hinged on the top - principles work anyhow.

This story has a wrong stink to it.

[Auxtank]

If the pilot had put in a bit of firm left rudder while pushing a very mildly negative G together with taking the power off the prop (minimizing prop wash), she would have been straight back into the plane again, and the door could be closed without effort.
Likewise if he put in a bit of right rudder and pulled a slightly positive G and increased power a bit, it would be nearly impossible for her to get back into the plane.
This is very normal when flying skydivers, even if the door there is hinged on the top - principles work anyhow.

This story has a wrong stink to it.

There's nothing 'stinky' about it. It's a sad, tragic tale of a young girl - obviously in mental turmoil either due to medication for Malaria or personal crisis - leaping to her death in a desperate state of mind.

It's happened before. It'll happen again.

I remember this particular story well. Similar aircraft.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/jun/21/military.rebeccaallison

"A decorated SAS veteran jumped out of an aircraft and fell 1,500 metres to his death, despite the desperate attempts of his co-pilot to stop him, an inquest was told yesterday.Judith Haig described how she tried in vain to hold on to her friend and business partner, Charles Bruce, when he unbuckled his seatbelt and opened the door of their Cessna 172 Skyhawk as they flew over Oxfordshire on January 8.

As Ms Haig grasped the waistband of his trousers with one hand and tried to control the aircraft with the other, Bruce, 45, pulled away and leapt out of the door, the inquest in Oxford heard."


RIP to both.

[Haraka]

I am in no position to comment on the recent tragedy. I am an Ex PPL Cessna Pilot and have some limited "open door " experience, but also professionally trained not to comment on ongoing investigations . I did , however, have a weird experience some years ago whilst holidaying and doing some diving in Kenya. Not relevant , but odd nevertheless.
In between dives and other fun I was reading "Freefall", a complex autobiography written by an ex soldier , who had issues and was working up hopefully to do a world high altitude free fall record.
I put the book down as a local "ex Rhodie military" friend came up and told me that an old mate of his had just stepped out of a Cessna over the U..K. ,
As the names were different, the penny never dropped and I carried on reading "Freefall". It was some months before I realised that they were one and the same. individual, who had been writing under a nom de plume

[double_barrel]

They are now saying anti malarial medication may have been a factor. Larium can have a pretty awful effect on some people, so I do wonder if that may be the case.

Yes, that is very believable. Larium can cause major psychotic events and should never be used by anyone with a history of mental problems.

[Airbanda]

Putting together the different press reports it seems clear than Ms Cutland's health was causing her family serious concern. Several of them suggest the other passenger was a friend or relative accompanying her back to a town or city where a doctor could consider whether she was OK to fly home and/or diagnose treat her condition. All of that seems to be exactly what might be expected if a young student had gone off the rails on a field trip to a remote part of the world.

While it's interesting to contemplate how the door might have opened sufficiently to allow her to fall I don't see any other plausible scenario then that she jumped. Any plot executed on board or anything involving dropping somebody already dead or critically injured would face exactly the same difficulties. It's also clear there have been similar incidents in the past.

[Pilot DAR]

If the pilot had put in a bit of ..... Is a lot to expect of a pilot in a suddenly alarming situation. The pilot's attention would be drawn away from flying to the distressed passenger. Precise flying would not be their priority. Yes, the door being closed can be affected by skidding the plane, this a practiced skill, which most pilots would be unaware of, and had never practiced. On the reverse, it would be very difficult for a pilot to get a person out through the door, if they did not want to go. A person would have to actively squirm out the door to get out. This sad story rings true to me.

[capngrog]

Here are two links to stories about people jumping from airplanes (without parachute) to their deaths. The first story, concerning Christine Pascale, describes a troubled woman with mental problems similar to those suffered by the subject of this thread, Alana Cutland.

Just to add further to the speculation regarding this thread, I think that it would be possible that the pilot of Alana's plane, while reaching/stretching to his right to grab Alana, inadvertently pushed on the right rudder pedal, sending the plane into an unintended skidding right turn. This maneuver would have place the right side of the aircraft "in the lee" of the relative wind, making it easier to open the door. Try to mimic the pilot's body motion while sitting in a chair, or better yet, in the left front seat of a Cessna 182 (or similar). While seated and reaching or stretching to one's right, the geometry of the human body results in a slight extension of the right foot ... at least that's how this aging/aged wrinkled body responds to such motion.

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/nation-world/national/article159590274.html

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article1957481.html

Grog

[212man]

On the reverse, it would be very difficult for a pilot to get a person out through the door, if they did not want to go. A person would have to actively squirm out the door to get out. This sad story rings true to me.
​​​​​​Precisely! All these people claiming it would be very hard for her to open the door, and jump herself, are then missing the blindingly obvious fact that it would be impossible for the other two to have forced her out against her will!

A few years ago a Norwegian oil worker being flown onshore by helicopter from a platform, with some mental health issues, suddenly pushed out the pop out window next to him and jumped out at 2,500 ft. These events do happen and they are sudden and catch others by surprise.

[JumpJumpJump]

If the pilot had put in a bit of firm left rudder while pushing a very mildly negative G together with taking the power off the prop (minimizing prop wash), she would have been straight back into the plane again, and the door could be closed without effort.
Likewise if he put in a bit of right rudder and pulled a slightly positive G and increased power a bit, it would be nearly impossible for her to get back into the plane.
This is very normal when flying skydivers, even if the door there is hinged on the top - principles work anyhow.

This story has a wrong stink to it.

Whilst the the firm left rudder would put more airflow against the door, Surely the momentum of the passenger would then be towards the right hand door, thus making egress much easier as you would have the weight of the passengers body against the door. I am by no means saying that I am corect as I haven't done even the most basic of calculations for this... However, somebody not trained, or that hasn't thought this through, might well elect to not alter the rudder position as a Leyman's arguement could help or hinder in both circumstances and furthermore, woud have been unliely to even consider this course of action.

We can assume that the max cruising speed of the aircrft would have been around 100 knts, at 3000ft there is a chance that the aircraft was still climbing, as such the speed could have been much lower. With everything inside your car secured and a seatbelt on, the force needed to open the door could be easily simulated on a highway/motorway.... Don't try this if your car door has a suicide hinge (Hinge at the rear of the door).

[Spooky 2]

Hewlett Packard had a shuttle between San Jose, CA and Sacramento, CA back in the late 90's as I recall. They operated this with a Twin Otter. One of their female employees opend the pax door and jumped to her death. The Otter pax door drops down to create a boarding stair as I recall. I would imagine that the airstream pulled this door open quite rapidly. Tragic for those that watched this happen.

[bunk exceeder]

I would think a C182 would be doing around 130 kts. Maybe a little bit more. A 172 does 115 and a 182 is a good bit quicker. And that big door takes a lot pushing.

[sitigeltfel]

Her body has been found.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-49257769

[Auxtank]

Her body has been found.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-49257769

May her parents, family and friends take some comfort from this news, and may Alana RIP.

[er340790]

They are now saying anti malarial medication may have been a factor. Larium can have a pretty awful effect on some people, so I do wonder if that may be the case.

i can certainly second that! Back in the 90s I was scheduled to work in remote areas of Indonesia, followed by India. Both in different malarial zones which both require meds to be taken x weeks before and y weeks after the visit - ergo it was necessary to mix both sets of meds. In less than 2 weeks I genuinely felt I was going round the bend and flushed the lot. Scary.

I too did have a PA-28 door pop open on me. Ironically on a FAA check-flight(!) Worn pins were the cause.

Still - I passed the check-ride. And never did get malaria!

What doesn’t kill kill you makes you stronger! 👍🏻

[johngreen]

I will add my name to the list of people who have found themselves having extremely disturbing reactions that have some connection with taking Larium. It is however curious that the literature I read around the time and after the event (A trip to Malawi about 20 years ago) did observe that the negative reactions reported by many Europeans was far higher by percentage than the negative reactions reported by North Americans.

This apparent anomaly was not effectively explained but there was some suggestion that many users were visiting severe third world conditions for the first time and that this emotional shock was considerably exacerbated by the chemical nature of the drug.

I certainly wouldn't claim to have ever been one of the worlds outstanding optimists and I was under some personal duress at the time of the trip but the depth of depression (I'm using that word as a shortcut to describe the effect) I experienced was quite severe enough for me to easily relate to the experience of this poor girl upon which this thread is based.
It was also apparent at the time that I was not alone in having such a negative reaction to the drug, the circumstances or both.

As it happened, I stopped taking the pills (taken than as a once a week tablet while there and for a couple of weeks before and then after the period of exposure) prematurely and soon after upon my eventual return to Australia, ended up coming very close to death being very reluctant to acknowledge that the un-wellness I was experiencing which turned out to be fulciparum malaria!

Needless to say, though the whole affair was a hugely difficult and disturbing experience, I have long since reflected back upon it with considerable pleasure and appreciation. There were some very bright moments within the darkness.
But I also do consider myself somewhat lucky to have survived...

[Repos]

I took Larium when on a trip to climb Kilimanjaro in 2001. It had no ill effects but the rep giving the briefing before the first day was quite emphatic that we should not take Larium whilst at altitude as he had seen some people being badly affected and exhibit weird behaviour.

[Bend alot]

I will add my name to the list of people who have found themselves having extremely disturbing reactions that have some connection with taking Larium. It is however curious that the literature I read around the time and after the event (A trip to Malawi about 20 years ago) did observe that the negative reactions reported by many Europeans was far higher by percentage than the negative reactions reported by North Americans.

This apparent anomaly was not effectively explained but there was some suggestion that many users were visiting severe third world conditions for the first time and that this emotional shock was considerably exacerbated by the chemical nature of the drug.

I certainly wouldn't claim to have ever been one of the worlds outstanding optimists and I was under some personal duress at the time of the trip but the depth of depression (I'm using that word as a shortcut to describe the effect) I experienced was quite severe enough for me to easily relate to the experience of this poor girl upon which this thread is based.
It was also apparent at the time that I was not alone in having such a negative reaction to the drug, the circumstances or both.

As it happened, I stopped taking the pills (taken than as a once a week tablet while there and for a couple of weeks before and then after the period of exposure) prematurely and soon after upon my eventual return to Australia, ended up coming very close to death being very reluctant to acknowledge that the un-wellness I was experiencing which turned out to be fulciparum malaria!

Needless to say, though the whole affair was a hugely difficult and disturbing experience, I have long since reflected back upon it with considerable pleasure and appreciation. There were some very bright moments within the darkness.
But I also do consider myself somewhat lucky to have survived...
Add me also.

A big night out in Cape Town and we missed a dose of the Larium pills, so we did a double dose just before the flight to Malawi - never took another pill.

Kept a supply of Artenam soon after. Never needed it but one guy did, and it worked very well.