Air France to cease A380 operations

[ETOPS]

Looks like AF have given up on their A380 fleet............

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2019/07/30/1893919/0/en/Evolution-of-the-Air-France-KLM-fleet.html

Very suprised at the speed of the withdrawl plans. Also the order for A220 series is interesting.

[BlueA330]

Looks like AF have given up on their A380 fleet............

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2019/07/30/1893919/0/en/Evolution-of-the-Air-France-KLM-fleet.html

Very suprised at the speed of the withdrawl plans. Also the order for A220 series is interesting.
Not really when you see how Concorde went

[Planespeaking]

Looks like AF have given up on their A380 fleet............

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2019/07/30/1893919/0/en/Evolution-of-the-Air-France-KLM-fleet.html

Very suprised at the speed of the withdrawl plans. Also the order for A220 series is interesting.
Looks like another nail in the A380 coffin...too big and too uneconomic. I wonder if BA will follow suit. Emirates must be questioning their decision to invest so heavily in what is rapidly becoming a white elephant.

[DaveReidUK]

Very suprised at the speed of the withdrawal plans.

Article say the A380 will go within 3 years' time.

[West Brit]

Great news, what an ugly aircraft that A380 is.

[atakacs]

Great news, what an ugly aircraft that A380 is.
But by far the best passenger wise...

[derelicte]

But by far the best passenger wise...

The best plane I've ever been on as slf, the ones I've been on have been full, what went wrong?

[Falcon666]

But by far the best passenger wise...
Could not agree more, from a SLF point of view the quietest a/c I’ve been fortunate to fly on.

[EGPO]

It arrived too late, is it not true that the excellent A340;is also quietly being withdrawn?.
The era for ' four engines ' seems over , apart from military and the continued use of the Avroliners .
The A380 is a bit like Marmite , you either live or hate it .
Personally I thought it really showed the age of the 747 , it's a pity those giant new GE engines destined for the huge 777X , couldn't allow the 380 to operate as a Two engined airliner ( I'm not an expert so not sure if that could work), just I was under the impression, and remember the launch in 2005 , ( watched it live ) , as they made much of how much of it was built using lightweight materials.

It just seems to be a collosal waste of money, plus the lost jobs in maintanence and the supply chain, it really must not be the greatest ever built after all .

[West Brit]

But by far the best passenger wise...
Maybe, but brutally ugly to look at.

[Planespeaking]

It arrived too late, is it not true that the excellent A340;is also quietly being withdrawn?.
The era for ' four engines ' seems over , apart from military and the continued use of the Avroliners .
The A380 is a bit like Marmite , you either live or hate it .
Personally I thought it really showed the age of the 747 , it's a pity those giant new GE engines destined for the huge 777X , couldn't allow the 380 to operate as a Two engined airliner ( I'm not an expert so not sure if that could work), just I was under the impression, and remember the launch in 2005 , ( watched it live ) , as they made much of how much of it was built using lightweight materials.

It just seems to be a collosal waste of money, plus the lost jobs in maintanence and the supply chain, it really must not be the greatest ever built after all .

With the production line being closed and airlines disposing of their A380 fleets I wonder what the resale value will be of the existing airframes. Perhaps there may be a commercial future in bulk airfreight, or even outsize cargo, but that will require major structural alterations which may not be a viable option.

However Boeing did it with it's 747, and I understand it's 747-800 Freighter helped to keep it's production line open and used some of the unsold hulls. Apart from Lufthansa I don't think the pax version of the 800 sold at all. But Boeing sold thousands of 747s over the years and made billions of dollars. Airbus has committed billions of euros in a vanity project to be bigger and better than the US and sold about 400 A380s, losing a fortune in the process, Im just sorry for the employees

[DaveReidUK]

Apart from Lufthansa I don't think the pax version of the 800 sold at all.

Assuming you mean the 747-8, it was also bought by Korean and Air China.

[EGPO]

With the production line being closed and airlines disposing of their A380 fleets I wonder what the resale value will be of the existing airframes. Perhaps there may be a commercial future in bulk airfreight, or even outsize cargo, but that will require major structural alterations which may not be a viable option.

However Boeing did it with it's 747, and I understand it's 747-800 Freighter helped to keep it's production line open and used some of the unsold hulls. Apart from Lufthansa I don't think the pax version of the 800 sold at all. But Boeing sold thousands of 747s over the years and made billions of dollars. Airbus has committed billions of euros in a vanity project to be bigger and better than the US and sold about 400 A380s, losing a fortune in the process, Im just sorry for the employees




Got to say I fully agree , while I cannot say o understand the intracicies of the PAX and Cargo aviation industry.
It sesvlike the A380 was easily 15-20 years too late. , I did used to wonder when reading of the upcoming 787 and it's eventual rather sizeable ' stretch ', that to my knowledge doesn't require a very long runway.
Nor did it need airports to spend huge amounts , altering terminals , and Airbridges to accommodate it.

Also why when they had the A340 , which I read was not fuel efficient and as such led to less being sold and that program closed .
Then as you say we had the 747-8 , that I think had one American client ( possibly cargo ), I was also under the impression IAG( BA) Took a couple of PAX versions .

But when the 800 was launched it quickly became obvious it was a none starter , and with only Emirates being major customers, and now they too are phasing out aircraft , barley a decade old , why did Airbus not pull the plug sooner .

When you now have the incredible A350-1000 , and 777-1000 is it or is it the ' X' ( As I say I'm.not an expert) but with such aircraft, and airlines wanting an airframe that can fly non stop from Brisbane and Sydney ( and Melbourne) in one ' hop' the A380 makes even less sense.

But I still cannot see BA , Lufthansa and Emirates and Korean , suddenly off loading these aircraft.

You spoke of the costs of freight conversation, but what are the costs for this ? Would it be even viable .
Just seems like a tremendous waste and as you say vanity project that , could have cost Airbus dear, we're it not for the A350 and the new ' Neo , and A321XLR. Neo ' fleets .

With the disaster that has been the 737max , Airbus though still seem to be doing well in spite of the utter failure of this A380 project.

[Hotel Tango]

Forgive my cynicism but does any type of aircraft make money with Air France?

[NWSRG]

The A380 is undeniably capable (and yes, very comfortable for passengers). But it is technically far behind the 787 and A350...when Airbus were investing in the A380, they basically built the best of the 'old' generation technology aircraft. Metal wing, part metal fuse (although the use of GLARE was an advance), and engines a generation behind the 787 or A350. Add to that, the wing was designed for the even bigger -900, so was somewhat compromised on the -800.

I think it was Richard Branson who said the aircraft could make a pile of money for the airlines, but nothing for Airbus...he wasn't far wrong. If you can fill it, then it makes money, but not enough people can fill it on enough routes...particularly when faced with the challenge of the modern twins, offering frequency over size.

BA are an interesting case in point...they seem keen on additional frames, but only at a different price point (even second-hand). Although the 777-9 order might herald the end of that idea.

Ultimately, it does seem as if the A380 was a vanity project. Boeing (when they were managed by people who knew) said the market wasn't big enough. They were right.

[Mr Mac]

Best A/C for passengers as other have said by far, and I include 787 (personally dislike this A/C) and A350 In that. Aesthetically I agree she is no looker, but as a PAX experience really very good, and I have spent many hours in them, and before them 747 and 777 and many other types over too many years, so I have the experience to make that comment . Will miss her when they finally go.

Regards
Mr Mac

[DaveReidUK]

The A380 is indeed a nice aircraft to fly on, but since when did passenger preference carry any weight with the airline bean-counters ?

If, as seems likely, the 777X gets very close to the A380's SMCs then the only remaining raison d'être for the latter will be its use at slot-constrained airports.

[EGPO]

Perhaps the A380, might end up with JAL for example as, do they not use 747 sized aircraft,bon pretty short domestic routes.
But ones that are vastly oversubscribed for want of a better description.
I hadn't realised the A380 was so ' out of date ' , as I'd thought at the launch event , which I watched. Much was made of the carbon fibre wings , so perhaps that was just marketing drivel .

The only other possible uses might be on well used Bucket and spade destinations, perhaps the notion of being able to take a few hundred pax to malaga in one shot , freeing up the normal 737/A320 for other holiday routes could be a money spinner for a holiday airline .

But maybe military use , either as a troop transport in the same vein as the old VC10 ( imho a superior aircraft ), and nicer looking than the lumbering beast of an A380 .

It does seem odd that these may end up getting sandworm in the desert , because noone wants them, when they are not very old and not even close to the maximum flight cycle .

Unless the African nations need a high density domestic use , it looks like Airbus wasted a whole tonne of money , that might have been better spent , either designing a replacement for the now 30 year old A319/420/321 or even a supersonic aircraft ,which is still the holy grail.

A sad waste though all the same .

[DaveReidUK]

Much was made of the carbon fibre wings, so perhaps that was just marketing drivel.

As alluded to in a previous post, the A380 wing is a conventional metal construction other than the centre wing box and some outer panels.

[Hotel Tango]

I would have thought JAL and ANA would have evaluated the A380 for their domestic routes a long time ago. Obviously they decided it wasn't suitable. Of course they may re-consider if they can pick a few up for a song, but I doubt it.