View Full Version : Armada EAV-8B Harrier II PLus (Matador) pair at RIAT 2019
chopper2004
22nd Jul 2019, 10:25
Even though one is converted to 35 nowadays, it was refreshing to see the Harrier back in the UK, albeit pair of Spanish Armada EAV-8B harrier II PLus or Matadors as they fondly called them since the AV-8A days. Beforehand they made appearence at Yeovilton Air Day (laughingly reminds me of James Bond thriller Win Lose or Die involving air to air between Bond and rogue Spanish Navy exchange pilot in SHAR).
So here are my photos of pair of EAV-8B Harrier II Plus from saturday.
Cheers
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/eav8b_3_e252e71120cc4bf8a6f2397c5f994e5a923c5032.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/eav8b_5_0da710a93def9d845368a7ff8d5339723bdc9008.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/eav8b_8_a73c250ddec85c61081c8596dba8a7922afec7d7.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/eav8b_9_3b017be2f76ae39984917041170dfa90d2aaa93b.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/eav8b_10_2bd5fe77b00a5ad920906fe4188e31c39a357f97.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/eav8b_9_9d7112c2fad27e59cd6354e0e5f185717129e94c.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/eav8b_11_1065cb2a2050f17bfe13d861a67c73a689fd0591.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/eav8b_13_d3b4d5a44a76a66330a0a94479a740b7e369f4ed.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/eav8b_14_6feada988ae6708a0ea7f0fe1b1c116de617935b.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/eav8b_16_d2cdf1761d59060211db577be7990c3956a7d190.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/eav8b_18_8df83964d058473295392d433620925266832b73.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/eav8b_19_b407ca5b268b31833e1c67ade5b145fcc34f7003.jpg
NutLoose
22nd Jul 2019, 11:24
Good to see, there is still one UK Harrier that can and does taxy under her own steam...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvsfyuW9Rjw&t=182s
MPN11
22nd Jul 2019, 19:28
And the associated hazard of having an open canopy is ... ?
Suffocation under fan mail?
Hypothermia due to being just too cool?
MPN11
22nd Jul 2019, 19:44
Suffocation under fan mail?
Hypothermia due to being just too cool?I was,, of course, thinking about a possible ejection scenario.
Forget it. This Forum is not being a helpful place these days.
Lima Juliet
22nd Jul 2019, 19:47
Isn’t it funny that our NATO nations are still using aircraft now gone from the UK inventory and are at RIAT - Tornado, Harrier, Phantom. All still going strong (just!).
Nice to see the whistling sub-sonic plastic pig, but even nicer to see the F35B (albeit very briefly!).
downsizer
22nd Jul 2019, 19:52
Why didn't the americans and spanish use stations 1A and 9A for winders, rather than lose 1 and 9 to a launcher?
It was always wise to have your elbow hard against the open canopy just in case rapid braking or EMERG braking sent it crashing forward unrestrained.
I seem to recall that on taxy out most folk were happy to have the seat live with canopy back (although it did surprise me when I first saw it done) as the signal to start was that all pins were removed...and therefore to safe up and rearm was a potential pigz waiting to happen. Best to keep it live and just ‘not eject’ until you’d closed the canopy.
You had to make seat and canopy safe prior to shutdown anyway so I think it was done in the ‘after landers’ and one could therefore taxy around looking ‘cool as’ and wave to the assembled adoring masses.
LateArmLive
22nd Jul 2019, 20:00
Why didn't the americans and spanish use stations 1A and 9A for winders, rather than lose 1 and 9 to a launcher?
Because their jets aren't fitted/wired to have those stations. It was a UK thing only from memory
downsizer
22nd Jul 2019, 20:01
Because their jets aren't fitted/wired to have those stations. It was a UK thing only from memory
Thats what I seem to remember, but was hoping someone else did as well. I did wonder at the time why they didn't wire them up.
Lima Juliet
22nd Jul 2019, 20:12
The farting about with the weapons config was also one of the reasons why the GR5 didn’t deploy on Op GRANBY whereas the AV-8B did with the USMC.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x1600/image_c1ae672db677b6c2f33588fb830ce4390e9276d1.jpeg
2805662
23rd Jul 2019, 05:38
Thats what I seem to remember, but was hoping someone else did as well. I did wonder at the time why they didn't wire them up.
They did get a functioning gunpod in lieu. Seemed to use the 25mm operationally strafing targets. Did any second generation AV-8B/Harrier II get air-to-air kills with Sidewinder?
Treble one
23rd Jul 2019, 09:19
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x540/harrier_1_41cabb19bb0099245183433699d205cd07a61002.jpg
Landing at RIAT
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x539/harrier_2_a0125bce310a65eb82b3a9786db8ee545e66f6bd.jpg
Smoking at RIAT
A couple of mine from Saturday.
sandiego89
23rd Jul 2019, 14:09
...... Did any second generation AV-8B/Harrier II get air-to-air kills with Sidewinder?
No, I do not recal any AV8B/Gr5/7/9 achieving a real world air to air kill. Nor any AV8A/Gr1/3 for that matter. Only the Sea Harrier I believe. Happy to be corrected
AndoniP
23rd Jul 2019, 14:31
Landing at RIAT
Smoking at RIAT
A couple of mine from Saturday.
Loved that smoke on full power. Nice to see them hover and hear that sustained noise.
What was the time limit for hovering again? 2-3mins? I didn't notice any injection of water into the intake for cooling, or i may have missed it completely.
ex-fast-jets
23rd Jul 2019, 18:51
What lovely photos - thanks to those who posted them.
Brings a serious tear to the eye that we have our Spanish colleagues to remind us of our heritage with this aircraft and what we should now still be doing with it if not for the sad decisions of our politicians and others who decided wrongly - in my opinion - to get rid of what was a great machine with great flexible capabilities at the peak of its development.
Well done to the RIAT folk for getting them there.
I wish I had been there to see and hear it.
OvertHawk
23rd Jul 2019, 19:12
I was,, of course, thinking about a possible ejection scenario.
Forget it. This Forum is not being a helpful place these days.
Perhaps, being a vintage airframe, the seat and canopy are not live therefore the pilot decided that his best means of rapid exit in the event of a ground incident was to leave the canopy open?
TEEEJ
23rd Jul 2019, 23:17
Perhaps, being a vintage airframe, the seat and canopy are not live therefore the pilot decided that his best means of rapid exit in the event of a ground incident was to leave the canopy open?
Correct. The seat is inactive. Note no seat harness.
VKqbGglRxE8
POBJOY
24th Jul 2019, 23:02
Perhaps Boris will make the Spanish an offer so we can get some capability back into the system.
BEagle
25th Jul 2019, 06:35
Unless he includes something which would be of direct benefit to him and him alone, I doubt whether the blustering oaf would bother...:mad:
LateArmLive
25th Jul 2019, 11:10
Loved that smoke on full power. Nice to see them hover and hear that sustained noise.
What was the time limit for hovering again? 2-3mins? I didn't notice any injection of water into the intake for cooling, or i may have missed it completely.
There wasn't strictly a time limit for hovering from memory (it's been a decade!) although there was a limit for having the RCS energised I think. Many used to think the 90seconds of water was the limit - that could certainly be true for the smaller engined jet on a warm day, but I guarantee it hovered just fine when you ran out of the wet stuff... just a bit warmer!
You wouldn't notice water injected into the intake as it went straight into the combustion chamber. The darker smoke tended to be an indicator of water injection as it disrupted the flame pattern a little whilst cooling the engine. Again, it's been a while and I am sure there's plenty I've forgotten over the years.
90 seconds of water, 2 1/2 minutes with nozzle deflected until the big engine came along when that limit disappeared.
NoHoverstop
25th Jul 2019, 21:45
180 seconds if your leaping heap had the half-flow mod (but then you weren't allowed wet take-offs, or was that for another reason?). 2 1/2 minutes was very much an "ish" thing wasn't it? Various UK operators seems to have pet likes/dislikes in the rule book anyway, so depending on which hat you wore Farley climbs were OK/verboten, likewise mini-circuits eventually I think. Or just possibly I wasn't always paying attention.
90 seconds of water, 2 1/2 minutes with nozzle deflected until the big engine came along when that limit disappeared.
It was an ‘ish’ thing in everyday life because there was no way of measuring or recording it...it became a real thing if AOC said something like ‘Isn’t there a limit on time with nozzle deflected?’ at your PDA and appointed a chief sneak to time you.
Sadly the good book (ACM) would be against you and very clearly in chief sneak’s favour at this point.
Whereupon your display would be abbreviated somewhat.
That sort of ‘ish’ thing!
sandiego89
26th Jul 2019, 13:29
Can anyone comment on any difference on hovering with gear up or gear down? Handling difference? I seem to recall that with gear down it helped trap some air underneath the airframe/in the wheel wells, and also believe puffer activation has to do with nozzle postion, not gear position. I wound think you would normally want gear down for hovering near the ground (but I do realize that with a significant engine cut out in the hover the result is predictable). So is gear up hover for "flair" only?- I do admit it looks good.
noprobs
26th Jul 2019, 18:08
Bomber, I was there on Sunday to see them perform the show finale. I’m sure you would have enjoyed it - I certainly did.
ex-fast-jets
26th Jul 2019, 19:43
I hope that tears were running down your cheeks as you watched it.
If I had been there with you, we could have had nostalgic memories of what was good in life in the past, and what might have been.
I still consider our premature ending of the Harrier in service to be a measure of the insanity of our politicians and the equal insanity of those who agreed to its demise.
Happy memories which get better as I get older!!
Mogwi
27th Jul 2019, 14:20
No, I do not recal any AV8B/Gr5/7/9 achieving a real world air to air kill. Nor any AV8A/Gr1/3 for that matter. Only the Sea Harrier I believe. Happy to be corrected
You are quite correct sandie. Last Harrier kill was my wingman in SHAR XZ499 at c1950Z on 8th June 1982.
Swing the lamp!
mog
Sandiego - hover with the wheels up limits the engine as opposed to the higher ‘Lift’ ratings available with the gear down.
Mogwi
28th Jul 2019, 17:25
Sandiego - hover with the wheels up limits the engine as opposed to the higher ‘Lift’ ratings available with the gear down.
In the tin-wing Harrier it also inhibited the auto-stab, which made it quite twitchy.
mog
Treble one
28th Jul 2019, 19:15
My second photo shows the transition from hover into something which (I think) was a Spanish version of the 'Farley Rocket' (with the greatest of respect to the late great JF).
I am assuming this requires careful management of throttle/nozzle/stick settings/positions......?? Otherwise you end up in a big smoking pile of Harrier?
It’s ‘just’ a full power transition from the hover to wing borne flight, keeping a fairly constant alpha and therefore climbing.
The ‘Farley Climb’ was more of a ‘rotation around the nozzles’ which needed a whole lot more care and attention.
Treble one
28th Jul 2019, 21:54
Thank you Orca. I guess JF was an absolute master of the aircraft to be able to do that.
pr00ne
28th Jul 2019, 21:58
POBJOY,
"...so we can get some capability back into the system."
Er, what capability would that be then?
alwayslookingup
31st Jul 2019, 11:09
Correct. The seat is inactive. Note no seat harness.
VKqbGglRxE8
At 2:21 what does the Pilot do to his helmet? Looks like he's flicking a couple of clips forward. Thanks.
Green Flash
31st Jul 2019, 18:06
Helmet internal web tensioners, if memory serves. It pulls his fighting hat tighter onto his head and helps cut out the engine noise. Happy to be corrected if not.
alwayslookingup
1st Aug 2019, 09:33
Helmet internal web tensioners, if memory serves. It pulls his fighting hat tighter onto his head and helps cut out the engine noise. Happy to be corrected if not.
Thanks. Yep, it looked something like that but thanks for the info.
Treble one
1st Aug 2019, 12:22
Have just watched JF perform the Farley Rocket at Farnborough in 1982. Looks like after a vertical take off to around 30-50 ft wings level, he climbs at an AOA approaching 70-80 degrees.
Had to laugh at Raymond Baxter commenting that 'it wasn't recommended for squadron pilots'.
Tay Cough
1st Aug 2019, 12:28
I seem to remember reading the RAF banned the Farley Climb. The RN didn’t.
Treble one
1st Aug 2019, 12:46
Its ok then Tay Cough, he did it in a SHAR (Indian) :-)
thrusts a must
1st Aug 2019, 16:36
Treble One, JF told me that he kept the AoA low throughout. So it worked with an X wind. Mogwi is correct as always. The only difference to the hover gear up was no stabs so as he says 'a bit twitchy'. Had the water fail once during a display when committed vertically. Lots of counts but still got the thrust. Gave it to A sqn. What a great donk!
Duds