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Airbubba
20th Jul 2019, 17:02
Something's up in CAI. :confused:

British Airways suspends flights to Cairo for seven days -statement


















CAIRO, July 20 (Reuters) - British Airways suspended flights to Cairo for seven days starting Saturday as a precaution to allow for an assessment of security there, the airline said in a statement.

“We constantly review our security arrangements at all our airports around the world, and have suspended flights to Cairo for seven days as a precaution to allow for further assessment,” the statement said.












With 'warms regards'

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x1200/d_7hiqtxkaah9pe_ae8d3939242ea18866de99ddd5e8310d28534e73.jpg

KelvinD
20th Jul 2019, 17:10
Something's up in CAI
Not to worry, it will all be over in 7 days. According to BA, that is!

flashware
20th Jul 2019, 17:19
Looks like you got the letter as you were about to leave LHR. I'm in CAI and was due to fly back this week. Not to be. Offered routes via LOS and ACC if I want to get back earlier. Much longer travel time plus a long connection so have opted for their first flight when they are back in service.

scr1
20th Jul 2019, 17:43
Have Iberia also suspended their flights if not ask to be rerouted via MAD

(they have done this for me due to a canx LHR-TLV flight)

diffident
20th Jul 2019, 20:20
It would appear from the Cairo Airport website that it is only British Airways flights that are affected, and Egyptair flights to Heathrow continue as normal. Couldn't BA just transfer their pax onto the upcoming flights by Egyptair??

gearlever
20th Jul 2019, 20:49
Lufty as well (https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/aegypten-307.html)

diffident
20th Jul 2019, 20:51
Lufty as well (https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/aegypten-307.html)

In that case, I'd expect others to follow suit. I wonder what the issue is then, and whatever it is, why there is confidence that it would be over in 7 days??

warkman
20th Jul 2019, 21:05
In that case, I'd expect others to follow suit. I wonder what the issue is then, and whatever it is, why there is confidence that it would be over in 7 days??
otter forums saying Lufthansa have also cancelled CAI flights for security reasons

MENELAUS
20th Jul 2019, 21:49
otter forums saying Lufthansa have also cancelled CAI flights for security reasons

Yes. Letís post the reason on here. Appreciate itís a rumour network, however ...ffs

Hotel Tango
20th Jul 2019, 22:05
Er, what exactly has warkman said to upset you Globocnik? The airlines themselves have stated that it's for security reasons, which is pretty obvious anyway. I guess that intelligence organisations have got wind of something and the airlines have been notified.

Peter H
20th Jul 2019, 22:36
According to the BBC coverage https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49059700A BA spokesman said: "We constantly review our security arrangements at all our airports around the world,and have suspended flights to Cairo for seven days as a precaution to allow for further assessment".

Which suggests that it may not be back to normal after the seven days.

Lazyload
21st Jul 2019, 00:09
Looks like you got the letter as you were about to leave LHR. I'm in CAI and was due to fly back this week. Not to be. Offered routes via LOS and ACC if I want to get back earlier. Much longer travel time plus a long connection so have opted for their first flight when they are back in service.
how dumb is that. The western intel community and at least two world class airlines have formed the view that Cairo puts lives at risk. But youíve assessed that the inconvenience of a layover rates more highly. My advice to you would be to get out at highest possible speed while you still can

Dad was ATC
21st Jul 2019, 00:22
Lufhansa has cancelled flights to CAI as well, somethings up . . .

Dee Vee
21st Jul 2019, 00:42
Er, what exactly has warkman said to upset you Globocnik? The airlines themselves have stated that it's for security reasons, which is pretty obvious anyway. I guess that intelligence organisations have got wind of something and the airlines have been notified.

Its not unreasonable to be advised what the issue is, "Security reasons" really doesn't say anything.

If its a threat to blow up an aircraft, or hijack one, or because of more civil unrest or protests in Cairo, or US drones flying in the airspace, then say so. Its not hard or unreasonable to keep your customers informed WHY you are causing them grief.

Ex Cargo Clown
21st Jul 2019, 01:07
Its not unreasonable to be advised what the issue is, "Security reasons" really doesn't say anything.

If its a threat to blow up an aircraft, or hijack one, or because of more civil unrest or protests in Cairo, or US drones flying in the airspace, then say so. Its not hard or unreasonable to keep your customers informed WHY you are causing them grief.

Errm, why would you? I don't go into Tesco and ask them why they have put apples up by 10 pence. I'm a customer. Should I know?

If it's security related, if you don't know, you don't need to know. (not the apples BTW)

Dee Vee
21st Jul 2019, 01:25
If it's security related

I remember being a visitor to London some years ago, and on the underground train, it stopped in the middle of a tunnel, and a few minutes later the driver came on and said 1 station up the lone had been closed due to a bomb threat, and we were delayed until it was safe.

I was extremely happy to wait and that they told me what was going on, if he had just said "you are delayed indefinitely due to a security issue" then the entire train would have been up in arms and extremely unhappy.

I also remember thinking at the time, that was much better than what would have happened in Australia, where the authorities would have treated us like mushrooms, and told us nothing. Like is happening here just saying a "security" issue.

tdracer
21st Jul 2019, 02:49
Dee Vee - you realize that saying something like 'we have solid intelligence that XYZ plans to bomb a BA flight from Cairo to London, so BA is cancelling those flights' could easy let the bad guys know exactly where their information leak is? Are you willing to have an intelligence source tortured and killed just to satisfy your "need to know".:ugh::ugh:

Dee Vee
21st Jul 2019, 02:53
you realize that saying something like 'we have solid intelligence that XYZ plans to bomb a BA flight from Cairo to London, so BA is cancelling those flights' could easy let the bad guys know exactly where their information leak is?

Seriously? so you think just calling it a "security incident" means the bad guys won't know the authorities are on to them???

tdracer
21st Jul 2019, 04:51
Seriously? so you think just calling it a "security incident" means the bad guys won't know the authorities are on to them???

Sure, but they don't know how you found out. The more detail you give, the more they know, and the more likely they are to figure out where the leak is and take care of it. Not only do you risk losing the intelligence source, the manner it which they get rid will maximize the deterrence effect on other potential sources. Why help them figure out and eliminate the leak, just to satisfy your curiosity?
Hows your WWII history? You remember something called "Ultra"? Do you know that Ultra was considered so secret, and so critical to the Allied war effort, that sometimes the Allies intentionally didn't act on Ultra intelligence - allowing a German attack to proceed unmolested rather than tip their hand that they'd broken the German code and knew what they were up to?

FlightlessParrot
21st Jul 2019, 04:54
Seriously? so you think just calling it a "security incident" means the bad guys won't know the authorities are on to them???

Yes, seriously. I have no clue what the problem is: it might be anything from quite specific human intelligence of an act of terrorism, to discovering that the security checks for baggage handlers were not ISO 9000 compliant. Doubtless, if there are bad guys with a plan they will suspect something, but if it's kept vague, they won't know what to suspect.

Knowing the full details behind a delay is not going to get passengers to their destination any quicker.

Dee Vee
21st Jul 2019, 05:01
Knowing the full details behind a delay is not going to get passengers to their destination any quicker.

No one is suggesting the source or anything related be released to the general public.
Here are some actual details from various governments, which would have been all that was required to keep the customers sufficiently abreast of why their flights were cancelled and their travel plans put into disarray:

Flights to Cairo suspended by British Airways and Lufthansa (https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/flights-to-cairo-suspended-by-british-airways-and-lufthansa-due-to-security-risks-20190721-p52992.html)

The British government released updated travel advice for Egypt on Friday, warning against nonessential trips to most of the Sinai Peninsula and the area west of the Nile Valley and saying that travellers to Cairo should be cautious, too.

"There's a heightened risk of terrorism against aviation," the government said.

A US State Department travel warning on Friday also described "risks to civil aviation operating within or in the vicinity of Egypt," as well as "threats from terrorist and violent political opposition groups."

wiggy
21st Jul 2019, 06:46
BA ( and Lufty) are dealing with the paying public who can choose whether to fly with them in the future or not.

BA are cancelling flights for a whole week, disrupting hundreds of people's travelling plans. There is also the minor issue that the media will be over this like a rash.

IMO BA ( and it appears Lufty) simply had to say something a bit more than " we've cancelled all flights for a week and we are not telling you why."

Looking at the BA letter upthread it says in part they "constantly review (our) security arrangements.." and then goes on to talk about further assessments.

That looks like suitably crafted lawyer speak which is close to being as vague and non-specific as you can get...

Dee Vee
21st Jul 2019, 06:58
BA are cancelling flights for a whole week, disrupting hundreds of people's travelling plans.

interesting that Lufthansa only cancelled flights on 20th July (1 day)....

Rwy in Sight
21st Jul 2019, 07:01
Knowing the full details behind a delay is not going to get passengers to their destination any quicker.


No it won't but it would make the situation much more bearable - just like the tube handling of the station closure. Just like an announcement when a flight is late when to expect a new time for boarding.

tdracer
21st Jul 2019, 07:23
No it won't but it would make the situation much more bearable - just like the tube handling of the station closure. Just like an announcement when a flight is late when to expect a new time for boarding.

What more do you need to know past "we have a credible threat"?

Ex Cargo Clown
21st Jul 2019, 08:35
No it won't but it would make the situation much more bearable - just like the tube handling of the station closure. Just like an announcement when a flight is late when to expect a new time for boarding.

Ok, so when you are waiting for a train and you hear "delayed due to a police incident." Do you expect them to say, "Delayed due to someone throwing them self off a bridge and under a train. We are currently moving their mangled remains".

Airlines don't just cancel flights on a whim.

Ex Cargo Clown
21st Jul 2019, 09:02
Seriously? so you think just calling it a "security incident" means the bad guys won't know the authorities are on to them???

That's the stupidest thing I've read for a while.

So if I call you up and ask for your name, bank account number and DOB for "security purposes" that's OK? I'm only trying to help after all.

The idea of security is to gather as much information as you can. Not give it away.

Meester proach
21st Jul 2019, 09:15
For Christís sake,
Airline is not going to share specific threat information with passengers. Get over it and just understand itís safer for those flights not to go. End of.

darkshadow
21st Jul 2019, 09:45
According to Tagesschau (German public news) Lufthansa has now resumed flights to Cairo. Speculation (from them) is that LH stopped flying out of solidarity with BA but there is still no official answer.

gearlever
21st Jul 2019, 09:49
Cairo flights: Lufthansa resumes services (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-49062050)

diffident
21st Jul 2019, 10:18
Simon Calder has made a valid point in the media this morning, that what ever it is that BA have learned, it is specific to them, and specific to Cairo Airport. Even more so that Lufty have resumed their normal flight schedule, no other airlines are affected and that Egyptair continues to operate it's twice daily to Heathrow.

Dee Vee
21st Jul 2019, 10:25
The idea of security is to gather as much information as you can. Not give it away.

As previously mentioned, no one is asking for specifics, it makes zero difference to let people know at a high level what is affecting their flights.

I guess we are lucky that the media has no issues finding out what is going on and letting the public know.

Unlike a few petty officials who think it somehow makes them more important if they don't let the people they are affecting what's going on. These petty officials really need to be weeded out of their current area of authority, and put somewhere they can't cause damage to their companies/airlines with un-necessary negative decisions/publicity.

Andy_S
21st Jul 2019, 10:28
No it won't but it would make the situation much more bearable..........

I honestly don't think that BA telling us that they are cancelling flights because they have received specific intelligence that (for example) 'baggage handlers are trying to smuggle a bomb onto a London bound flight' is going to make me feel one tiny bit better about the cancellations. If anything, that level of detail is going to make me feel very uncomfortable.

The most important thing is that BA have responded to an apparent threat. There really is nothing to be gained by making public the full details, and as has already been pointed out it may even give the alleged perpetrators a head start on the authorities.

Noxegon
21st Jul 2019, 10:49
Personally I am intrigued by the way that Egyptair is still operating on the LHR route even as BA is not.

Dee Vee
21st Jul 2019, 10:52
Air France is maintaining its flights to Cairo too, no interruption...

BDAttitude
21st Jul 2019, 11:07
Given that situation it would have been helpful to know if it is a thread specific to the airline, the route, the airport in Kairo, the airspace in egypt or the general security situation in egypt.

bestmix
21st Jul 2019, 11:39
"......itís now been confirmed that from July 9 right through until July 19 inclusive (July 10-20 for the return legs), a short-haul A321 neo will be operating London-Cairo", in the place of the usual B787 due to their ongoing Trent engine problems. This seriously downgraded service (especially in terms of pax numbers) was due to end yesterday.

The article in Egypt Today dated 21.7.2019 appears relevant (sorry I'm not allowed to post links yet but it's easy to find, just search 'Egypt Today British Airways') but can anyone comment on the veracity of the contents?

Callsign Kilo
21st Jul 2019, 11:52
People on here demanding reasons to why? People can't profess to know how the likes of the Foreign Office & MI6 (along with their German equivalent) obtain and disseminate sensitive information. I'd be suprised if BA actually know the full extent of it. However I'm pretty certain it would have been a very real and credible threat in order for all parties to act this way. Thankfully we have such agencies in place, to my mind if they say act then people should do it. There's no need to be acutely specific, not in today's world.

Ancient Observer
21st Jul 2019, 12:20
Whatever the reason is, it appears to be specific to BA. I would rather be safe than sorry. The issue could be one of many things - planes, airport, hotels for crew, crew transportation, just about anything! It gives BA scheduling a week's relief from their issues finding enough planes to do the Cairo run.

esa-aardvark
21st Jul 2019, 13:18
Perhaps, remembering the Kuwait/Gulf war 1 incident BA are
a bit nervous if something seems to be blowing up.

Yaw String
21st Jul 2019, 13:25
Anything posted regarding BA seems to get our more argumentative posters up on the podium.
Sorry to interrupt!!!

Noxegon
21st Jul 2019, 14:15
People on here demanding reasons to why?

If I was flying to Cairo this week on any airline - Iím not, but bear with me here - then Iíd be extremely nervous. The powers that be could have provided an explanation that would have allayed those fears.

Andy_S
21st Jul 2019, 14:18
The powers that be could have provided an explanation that would have allayed those fears.

Or magnified them.

Hotel Tango
21st Jul 2019, 15:13
Seriously, if I was flying to or from Cairo (or any other Egyptian airport) on any day in any year I would be nervous!

Twiglet1
21st Jul 2019, 15:22
Personally I am intrigued by the way that Egyptair is still operating on the LHR route even as BA is not.
I doubt Egyptair would stop operating to CAI somehow, Something must have come to BA's attention to warrant it, security advice, audit issue, whole number of reasons.

Rwy in Sight
21st Jul 2019, 15:46
I honestly don't think that BA telling us that they are cancelling flights because they have received specific intelligence that (for example) 'baggage handlers are trying to smuggle a bomb onto a London bound flight' is going to make me feel one tiny bit better about the cancellations. If anything, that level of detail is going to make me feel very uncomfortable.

The most important thing is that BA have responded to an apparent threat. There really is nothing to be gained by making public the full details, and as has already been pointed out it may even give the alleged perpetrators a head start on the authorities.

I am happy with the explanation regarding security reasons.

wowzz
21st Jul 2019, 16:02
Supposedly BA staff carried out an inspection of the airport on Wednesday and Thursday (which I presume included security procedures). Could this have been an influencing factor?

gearlever
21st Jul 2019, 19:35
Hormus ( Stena Impero ), Iran?

Jack D
21st Jul 2019, 19:41
Its not unreasonable to be advised what the issue is, "Security reasons" really doesn't say anything.

If its a threat to blow up an aircraft, or hijack one, or because of more civil unrest or protests in Cairo, or US drones flying in the airspace, then say so. Its not hard or unreasonable to keep your customers informed WHY you are causing them grief.

Oh dear ! ... you want to know why? are you joking
ffs

Meester proach
22nd Jul 2019, 02:39
I must say I am totally gobsmacked at the number of replies here saying the passengers/customers don't deserve the courtesy of a reason for their flights being cancelled.

Presumably when they take their car in for an oil change they are happy for the service station to reply with their car has a "mechanical issue" and won't be returned for a week, and the cost will be $3000, thank you very much!

Theyíve had the reason, so have you. You donít need to know anymore. Or maybe you are a journalist fishing .

DaveReidUK
22nd Jul 2019, 06:20
Supposedly BA staff carried out an inspection of the airport on Wednesday and Thursday (which I presume included security procedures). Could this have been an influencing factor?

Influencing factor or pure coincidence. I know which one my money's on.

bill fly
22nd Jul 2019, 09:54
BA has not provided any reason whatsoever, only obfuscation, luckily for the brits the media has let us know what is going on.
Given BA's secrecy on the matter, you really have to wonder what they are hiding, and if there is a lot more future issues for them that they are also hiding.

Not that it matters to me, in reality I would never fly BA anyway, and this would just be another reason to strike them out of consideration in the future though.

Airlines donít cancel flights for no good reason. It costs them a lot of money and loses goodwill.
National airlines usually have a strong link to national security offices and are privy to secret information which it would be stupid, illegal and dangerous to disclose.
As in wartime however, there are always those attempting to glean information for whatever reason.

Meester proach
22nd Jul 2019, 10:33
BA has not provided any reason whatsoever, only obfuscation, luckily for the brits the media has let us know what is going on.
Given BA's secrecy on the matter, you really have to wonder what they are hiding, and if there is a lot more future issues for them that they are also hiding.

Not that it matters to me, in reality I would never fly BA anyway, and this would just be another reason to strike them out of consideration in the future though.


I give up. You canít fix stupid.

Timmy Tomkins
22nd Jul 2019, 11:41
I give up. You canít fix stupid.


Hear, hear!

Airbubba
22nd Jul 2019, 14:26
From Sky News Arabia as quoted by Nervana Mahmoud on Twitter:

7 thousand Algerians caused havoc in Cairo airport; it turned out they have no return tickets! Today, Egypt dispatched 7 military planes, in addition to 24 Algerian civilian planes to return them home! Hope that end British Airwayís freeze of its flights

https://www.skynewsarabia.com/sport/1269574-مصر-تنهي-أزمة-الجزائريين-العالقين-بمطار-القاهرة

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1000x563/1_1269595_a8c62f91ff7262fe927f5f612d14b8efce2b6924.jpg

wiggy
22nd Jul 2019, 14:41
I can't read the Sky article, but I guess that little problem might be down to the African Cup of Nations which finished over the weekend.

Just as well Algeria won.................

Lonewolf_50
23rd Jul 2019, 01:03
Am I even close with this guessing: the problem was Algerian football hooligans? (TBH, that does not make sense)

crewmeal
23rd Jul 2019, 05:18
If I was flying to Cairo this week on any airline - Iím not, but bear with me here - then Iíd be extremely nervous.

Iím flying to Cairo then onto Luxor next week with Egyptair and the only thing thatís making me nervous is a possible strike next week.

ZFT
23rd Jul 2019, 05:25
Iím flying to Cairo then onto Luxor next week with Egyptair and the only thing thatís making me nervous is a possible strike next week.

I understood strike couldn't occur until something like 8th August or later.

Like you I am scheduled on BA but after this date

Doug E Style
23rd Jul 2019, 06:24
Iím flying to Cairo then onto Luxor next week with Egyptair and the only thing thatís making me nervous is a possible strike next week.

Do you mean a missile strike?

wiggy
23rd Jul 2019, 06:28
I’m flying to Cairo then onto Luxor next week with Egyptair and the only thing that’s making me nervous is a possible strike next week.




Presumably you are flying BA LHR -CAI?

UK industrial relations regulations demand a two week "cooling period" post any ballot result. The earliest any BA pilot strike can begin is several days into August..I think the 6th.

Re the Algerian fans problem yesterday:

https://egyptianstreets.com/2019/07/21/algerian-fans-stir-chaos-smash-glass-gates-at-cairo-airport-for-delayed-flights/

marchino61
23rd Jul 2019, 06:45
Crewmeal wrote Egyptair

wiggy
23rd Jul 2019, 07:05
Crewmeal wrote Egyptair

Fair point "my bad", the only "strike" I could see of any relevance to flying into Cairo was the possible BA one, I guess he/she is using the word in another context.

Ex Cargo Clown
25th Jul 2019, 02:35
Fair point "my bad", the only "strike" I could see of any relevance to flying into Cairo was the possible BA one, I guess he/she is using the word in another context.

Errrrm.

https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1157281/flights-heathrow-airport-strike-unite-union-news-latest