R44 Down at Hayward Exc Airport Pilot killed Student injured

[nomorehelosforme]

San Francisco Chronicle reporting that the pilot was killed and student seriously injured yesterday, the report also includes 10 year statistics for R44 crashes. The aircraft belonged to Pacific Helicopters and they were practicing take offs and landings when the accident happened.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Flight-instructor-killed-student-injured-in-14097524.php?psid=cNPlV

[treadigraph]

https://abc7news.com/2-people-injured-in-helicopter-crash-at-hayward-airport-fire-officials-say/5397659/

[Bell_ringer]

It is surprising, from such a mundane exercise, someone can end up dead.
If you compare that to the crashworthiness of a Cabri, the Robbie leaves much to be desired.

[[email protected]]

Having been in a rollover incident many years ago in a R22, I can vouch for the fact that it is easy to smack your head during such an accident, something that could easily prove fatal and is not unique to robbies.

[nomorehelosforme]

The statistics in the article state that during the period from 2006-2016, R44's averaged 1.6 deadly accidents per 100,000 hours flown, a rate nearly 50% greater than any of the other 12 most common civilian models tracked by the FAA.

[aa777888]

The statistics in the article state that during the period from 2006-2016, R44's averaged 1.6 deadly accidents per 100,000 hours flown, a rate nearly 50% greater than any of the other 12 most common civilian models tracked by the FAA.
Not seeing any stat's in that article???

[nomorehelosforme]

The stats were in the San Francisco Chronicle article with a link to an LA Times article showing a graph and more info, currently can't post a link, please post if you look it up.

The article is fairly extensive and would be of interest to many on here, one of the firsts comments would be that of the 12 aircraft compared the one missing is the Cabri??

[nomorehelosforme]

Here we go.

https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-robinson-helicopters/

[Bell_ringer]

Having been in a rollover incident many years ago in a R22, I can vouch for the fact that it is easy to smack your head during such an accident, something that could easily prove fatal and is not unique to robbies.

Of course, though a head trauma like that often proves fatal after the event and not at time of impact.
There seems to be fairly significant damage to the instructor side of the cockpit, while the rest of the aircraft seems to be in fairly good condition, hence the comment.
The Cabri as an example has had it's fair share of accidents in quote/unquote the landing phase and the cockpit remained in good condition. Different architecture and design philosophies but given the choice I know which one I would choose.

From the stats quoted further up, it would seem the ideal training aircraft is a 206, confirms what everyone already knows.

[Vertical Freedom]

Stats...Shmats; wear a fvkin' Helmet & Your chance of survival is greatly increased...............nuff said!

Would You wear a Helmet riding a Motorbike? well a Helicopter is 100 times more dangerous! Don the BoneDome & live to tell the tale!

Happy landings

[aa777888]

Here we go.

https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-robinson-helicopters/
I was able to fact-check the 42 fatals in 5 minutes, but I continue to fail to find any source of fleet or model operating hours data. Does anyone know where I can obtain that?

[SansAnhedral]

I was able to fact-check the 42 fatals in 5 minutes, but I continue to fail to find any source of fleet or model operating hours data. Does anyone know where I can obtain that?

The FAA data is from the General Aviation Survey and was only obtained via a FOIA request by the LA Times.

https://github.com/datadesk/helicopter-accident-analysis/blob/master/notebook.ipynb


The FAA's General Aviation and Part 135 Activity Survey
In response to a public records request made by The Times, the FAA provided a decade of its annual estimates about the activity of America's most common helicopter models. This data is not published online. The records provided to The Times were manually input into a spreadsheet and standardized using the same crosswalk as the NTSB data.

The tidy-faa notebook filters the FAA data down to population counts and flight-hour estimates for models that have appeared in all ten years of survey data.


Substituting Robinson's flight hours estimate
In an email to The Times, Robinson Helicopter Company President Kurt Robinson said he believed the FAA survey underestimates the R44's flight hours. He wrote:

Please note, the fatal accident rate of 1.61per 100k flight hours used to compare the R44 with other model helicopters from 2006 to 2016 does not reflect the actual usage rate of the R44 helicopter. Your estimated flight hours are based on the FAA General Aviation Survey, which is a voluntary survey and more representative of larger commercial operators, not the U.S. helicopter industry as a whole. Robinson’s own calculations, based on R44 production, overhaul records, and time-in-service reports, conservatively estimate total flight hours to be 3,260,787 hours, 38% more than the FAA estimate.

[aa777888]

The FAA data is from the General Aviation Survey and was only obtained via a FOIA request by the LA Times.

https://github.com/datadesk/helicopt...notebook.ipynb (https://github.com/datadesk/helicopter-accident-analysis/blob/master/notebook.ipynb)Excellent link, SansAnhedral, thank you!

The FAA's General Aviation and Part 135 Activity Survey: In response to a public records request made by The Times, the FAA provided a decade of its annual estimates about the activity of America's most common helicopter models. This data is not published online.
Ah, this explains why the data is so hard to get. I actually called the FAA, but no joy. I should have done a FOIA request!

In an email to The Times, Robinson Helicopter Company President Kurt Robinson said he believed the FAA survey underestimates the R44's flight hours. He wrote:
Please note, the fatal accident rate of 1.61per 100k flight hours used to compare the R44 with other model helicopters from 2006 to 2016 does not reflect the actual usage rate of the R44 helicopter. Your estimated flight hours are based on the FAA General Aviation Survey, which is a voluntary survey and more representative of larger commercial operators, not the U.S. helicopter industry as a whole. Robinson’s own calculations, based on R44 production, overhaul records, and time-in-service reports, conservatively estimate total flight hours to be 3,260,787 hours, 38% more than the FAA estimate.I find this totally believable. I'm one of the many operators who gets that survey and can't be bothered to complete and return it.

That still puts the R44 at the top of the list at 1.16/100K, but not so dramatically.

[Max Power 3503e]

Appears rotor system had low/no power through it...

[Bell_ringer]

Excellent link, SansAnhedral, thank you!
That still puts the R44 at the top of the list at 1.16/100K, but not so dramatically.

You're making the assumption that the stats are accurate for all other types, it is safe to assume that like any survey, there is broadly a margin for error.

[mickjoebill]

Stats...Shmats; wear a fvkin' Helmet & Your chance of survival is greatly increased...............nuff said!

Would You wear a Helmet riding a Motorbike? well a Helicopter is 100 times more dangerous! Don the BoneDome & live to tell the tale!

Happy landings

This.

Now that there are fewer instances of post crash fires in R44s, we should take note of injuries suffered by survivors.
Having worn a helmet in back seat on filming jobs in r44 news, there is not much headroom left. Front seats a little better.

There are few light helicopters that have impact absorbing material around tops of doors.

Are helmets for learner drivers and their instructors such an imposition?

Mjb

[industry insider]

"They were practicing hovering, something that's unique to helicopters". I can see why this guy is a Manager.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1574x892/screen_shot_2019_07_17_at_5_01_58_pm_b56c062acfc7413d2067e2a 84e058816b44d0f2a.png

[Vertical Freedom]

This.

Now that there are fewer instances of post crash fires in R44s, we should take note of injuries suffered by survivors.
Having worn a helmet in back seat on filming jobs in r44 news, there is not much headroom left. Front seats a little better.

There are few light helicopters that have impact absorbing material around tops of doors.

Are helmets for learner drivers and their instructors such an imposition?

Mjb


Hey MJB......I wouldn't have thought so....I'd feel naked flying without a Helmet :ugh:

Happy landings

VF

[Bell_ringer]

Hey MJB......I wouldn't have thought so....I'd feel naked flying without a Helmet :ugh:


Hey VF, flying in your environment I'm surprised you don't use two :}
It's difficult for students in the private world to justify the costs on day one nor to necessarily understand the risks.
Lowly paid instructors are also thinking twice about what it costs.
In their wildest dreams I doubt anyone could expect this outcome from hover exercises.

[Vertical Freedom]

Hey VF, flying in your environment I'm surprised you don't use two :}
It's difficult for students in the private world to justify the costs on day one nor to necessarily understand the risks.
Lowly paid instructors are also thinking twice about what it costs.
In their wildest dreams I doubt anyone could expect this outcome from hover exercises.

Hey BR....what one for the little head? :8 might prove awkward to dance on them pedals :O Hmmm students can afford a $100,000 course but not a Helmet, sure doesn't make a whole bunch of sense to me! Today's instructors should know better & schools should leading the charge! When I trained Helmets where like Rocking Horse doodoo, no one wore them except the military & a few rare mustering lads! with today's wisdom of hindsight it should be mandatory kit, like seat-belts & radios, in my humble opinion...............:ugh:

Happy landings

[Robbiee]

Instead of coming here spouting your self righteous indignantcy, perhaps you two should actually do something about it. Lobby your Congressmen to make helmets mandatory. Training flights are nothing, just how many innocent passengers have been killed in the tour industry because they weren't wearing helmets? :ugh:

,...and don't forget to keep your helmet on when you get in your car. How ironic would it be for you to die in a car crash on your way home from the airport while your helmet sits in the trunk!
:ugh:

[Vertical Freedom]

Instead of coming here spouting your self righteous indignantcy, perhaps you two should actually do something about it. Lobby your Congressmen to make helmets mandatory. Training flights are nothing, just how many innocent passengers have been killed in the tour industry because they weren't wearing helmets? :ugh:

,...and don't forget to keep your helmet on when you get in your car. How ironic would it be for you to die in a car crash on your way home from the airport while your helmet sits in the trunk!
:ugh:

Ooow touched a raw nerve hey? I don't have a congressman nor a car, I ride bikes & always wear a Helmet! Don't think I've ever seen anyone drive a car wearing a stack-hat except in racing!

Training flights sure are not nothing as you call it....they are the very future of the industry & an important one at that, where many important foundations are created! Showing Your respect for training I see. Passengers don't fly much, but Pilots fly all day everyday, that's a bloody big difference & yes plenty of passengers have been killed in too many crashes, would they have been saved wearing a bone-dome; maybe, some? I guess we'll never really know!

Do You wear a helmet?

[Bell_ringer]

VF, you don’t need a helmet to protect a vacuum :E

[Robbiee]

Ooow touched a raw nerve hey? I don't have a congressman nor a car, I ride bikes & always wear a Helmet! Don't think I've ever seen anyone drive a car wearing a stack-hat except in racing!

Training flights sure are not nothing as you call it....they are the very future of the industry & an important one at that, where many important foundations are created! Showing Your respect for training I see. Passengers don't fly much, but Pilots fly all day everyday, that's a bloody big difference & yes plenty of passengers have been killed in too many crashes, would they have been saved wearing a bone-dome; maybe, some? I guess we'll never really know!

Do You wear a helmet?

Showing your respect for passengers I see.

,...and no, I don't wear a helmet.

[nomorehelosforme]

Hmmmm, did somebody just wake up in California with a sore head?

[Robbiee]

Hmmmm, did somebody just wake up in California with a sore head?

How about ,a guy died and all you assholes can say is how stupid he was for not wearing a helmet, how awesome you are for wearing one, and how many R44 accidents does this make now!

**** off sky gods!

[aa777888]

Helmets are such a funny thing. Like many things we do it's all about perceived risk vs. real risk, ones' own personal limits for risk, and even about public perception and peer pressure.

For example, I, personally, would NEVER ride a motorcycle on the street without a full face helmet. NEVER. And I have proven to be religious about this, as I used to do the motorcycle work commute thing. And I don't have to, because I live where there are no helmet laws (thank goodness!) But I don't bother to put one on if I take a small dirtbike for a leisurely buzz up one of my trails in the woods. And I despise helmets for bicycling. I will freely admit to this bizarre behavior. From a safety standpoint I should wear an appropriate helmet for all of those activities. But I don't because I feel the risk/reward ratio tilts in the favor of no helmet for me except when on a street bike. The reward is, admittedly, likely to be considered a poor trade-off by many: a feeling of freedom, more physical comfort, better visibility, etc. And yet it tilts back the other way when riding a motorcycle on the street. I can't give you a purely logical argument for how and why I draw the line on helmets, only that I do, even being very well acquainted with the risks for all of these activities, as I was an EMT on a municipal ambulance service for eight years and saw all manner of non-helmet related injuries.

There is also public perception and peer pressure at play. Riding a sportbike and wearing a helmet is considered completely normal in the US. Riding a Harley and wearing a full face helmet not so much. Stupid? You bet. But people like to fit in. Luckily I'm a sportbike kind of guy!

Looking at helicopters, particularly small helicopters like the R44, I would certainly find the the use of a helmet uncomfortable. That alone stops me right there. I have made a risk/reward decision and it came down on the side of "no helmet". Maybe that's stupid, but it's my choice (until some nanny-state yahoo creates legislation--please, please don't do that!) And there would be potential perception issues that would cause some colleagues to find it pretentious and some passengers to worry, but those are lesser and less valid factors. But some people put a high value on "fitting in".

Finally we come to the money issue. Anyone coming up through the US civilian helicopter training world is well familiar with budding pilots who live hand to mouth, eat only Ramen noodles, wear ripped and dirty clothes, because nearly all of their money is being spent on helicopter instruction. These are the folks borrowing school headsets. They legitimately are not going to pony up for a $2500 helmet. Every dime goes to pay for helicopter and instructor time. This applies to many newly-minted CFIs, too.

So, since I can't fly a turbine, don't have a helmet and aren't wearing Nomex, I guess I should just stay in bed? OK, being a little snarky there. You can even get killed in bed ;) But, seriously, while it is perfectly reasonable to point out that we would all be safer with helmets, please recognize that it is not something that everyone wants to do, and please don't MAKE us do it if we don't want to unless we work for you and you demand it. That's fine, your playground, your rules. But otherwise...

All I can say is that my risk/reward line is drawn where I choose to draw it, even knowing and understanding all of the risks, and understanding that wearing a helmet is much safer (and I can afford one, a GOOD one, for every activity, too). It's a complex, personal decision that is not fully driven by logic.

[500e]

Sounds like 22b

[Bell_ringer]

How about ,a guy died and all you assholes can say is how stupid he was for not wearing a helmet, how awesome you are for wearing one, and how many R44 accidents does this make now!

**** off sky gods!
:}
whoopsie. Someone put baby in a corner

[SASless]

I am beginning to think VF requires an XXXXL Helmet....which would take a special order to make one that large.:rolleyes:

[Bell_ringer]

I am beginning to think VF requires an XXXXL Helmet....which would take a special order to make one that large.:rolleyes:

Can’t you loan him yours? ;)

[Old Dogs]

Hey VF, flying in your environment I'm surprised you don't use two :}
It's difficult for students in the private world to justify the costs on day one nor to necessarily understand the risks.
Lowly paid instructors are also thinking twice about what it costs.
In their wildest dreams I doubt anyone could expect this outcome from hover exercises.

What is your life worth?

I'm totally with Steve.

[gulliBell]

..just how many innocent passengers have been killed in the tour industry because they weren't wearing helmets?

At one point (years ago), pilots in the offshore industry were discouraged by aviation advisors from wearing helmets (and virtually none wore them). For the reason being, if the passengers saw pilots wearing a flight helmet, they'd want to wear one also. Meaning, one provided to them for free and not bought by them. Easier for pilots not to wear them than supply one of correct fit for each passenger. Anyway, that was the thought process.

[SASless]

I would but it has a bad short circuit between the ear phones!

Actually....sold it to someone that needed one....and never replaced it as at the next medical exam....failed it and lost my ability to fly.

Odd how things work out ain't it!

Another America and I sported some nice helmets while flying out of the Shetlands.....until we were told it just wasn't the done thing old chap!

So back we went to the cheapest and sorriest Peltor headsets available.

Any wonder why I lost my hearing.

[nomorehelosforme]

At one point (years ago), pilots in the offshore industry were discouraged by aviation advisors from wearing helmets (and virtually none wore them). For the reason being, if the passengers saw pilots wearing a flight helmet, they'd want to wear one also. Meaning, one provided to them for free and not bought by them. Easier for pilots not to wear them than supply one of correct fit for each passenger. Anyway, that was the thought process.

At one point(Year’s ago) When helmets weren’t worn, did passengers and pilots in the offshore industry wear survival suits and life jackets? Purely as a matter of interest when did this become mandatory and was there a particular incident that caused it to be enforced?

[bront]

I'm also with VF on this one. I bought a helmet when I started my training 30+ years ago, well before they were the norm, and have worn it throughout my career. The only time I haven't was when I flew for the oil industry and they wouldn't let me. Gave me the same BS excuse mentioned above, not from management but from the chief pilot.

The only negative comments I've ever received were from fellow pilots. Maybe it's because other pilots are jealous. If a tourist, VIP or passenger has ever commented, it was favourably. Maybe that's because I've had a cool paint job on it but no one has ever asked 'where is theirs?'.

I'm 6' 3" and have no problem wearing it in any helicopter I've ever flown, from R22's to Mi8's and I'm a VR pilot so need to stick my head out the door. Sure there is some technique required in some types but that isn't hard to learn.

[Old Dogs]

At one point (years ago), pilots in the offshore industry were discouraged by aviation advisors from wearing helmets (and virtually none wore them). For the reason being, if the passengers saw pilots wearing a flight helmet, they'd want to wear one also. Meaning, one provided to them for free and not bought by them. Easier for pilots not to wear them than supply one of correct fit for each passenger. Anyway, that was the thought process.

When I flew offshore we were discouraged from wearing helmets because management believed it would make the passengers think flying in helicopters was dangerous. 😏

[gulliBell]

...When helmets weren’t worn, did passengers and pilots in the offshore industry wear survival suits and life jackets? Purely as a matter of interest when did this become mandatory and was there a particular incident that caused it to be enforced?

Of the five different offshore operations I've worked in and thus am familiar, for all of them:
Helmets: Optional
Survival suits: Optional
Life jackets: Required

[gulliBell]

When I flew offshore we were discouraged from wearing helmets because management believed it would make the passengers think flying in helicopters was dangerous.

From what I've heard from those who do offshore risk assessments, that is, everything associated with offshore from drilling to production to whatever else, getting too and from the offshore installation by helicopter is the riskiest aspect of the whole shooting match. Whether helmets are worn or not.

[Old Dogs]

Of the four different offshore operations I've worked in and thus am familiar, for all of them:
Helmets: Optional
Survival suits: Optional
Life jackets: Required

From my experience:

East Coast Canada

Helmets: Optional (in later years)
Survival suits: Required
Life jackets: Required

Beaufort Sea (Canadian Arctic)

​​​​​​Helmets: Optional (in later years)
Survival suits: Required
Life jackets: Required

India/Thailand

​​​​​​Helmets: Optional (in later years)
Survival suits: Optional (never saw anyone wear them)
Life jackets: Required

[Old Dogs]

From what I've heard from those who do offshore risk assessments, that is, everything associated with offshore from drilling to production to whatever else, getting too and from the offshore installation by helicopter is the riskiest aspect of the whole shooting match. Whether helmets are worn or not.

Yeah, but in our case the aviation consultants were not the problem - our own management was the problem.

This was during the period when the new owner (non-aviation guy) decided that all the managers had to have MBA's - which pretty much ruled out anyone who knew anything about helicopters.

A bunch of us just starting wearing them anyway.

And as SASLESS mentioned, helmets go a long way to reducing hearing damage.

[Bell_ringer]

The importance of head protection in every career or recreational pursuit is well known.
It took a long time to make them mandatory (in some parts of the world) on bikes, it is the reason cars have tons of airbags (the side airbag was invented after they worked out people were dieing of head injuries from side impacts).
In those days it was uncool to wear helmets on bikes, in some cases it still is considered uncool, but if you are prepared to humiliate yourself on a Harley with all that leather and tassels then a helmet is the least of your worries.

In recreational flying and training, helmets have the same problem, no one wants to be seen in one, hot environments and no air-conditioning don't help.
There is also the the thinking that accidents are few and far between and a good helmet costs a few flight hours so why waste the flight time.
The culture isn't going to change until regs require it, and I doubt regulators will as there just aren't enough people affected to justify it.
Perhaps insurance companies may start insisting on one being worn.

[newfieboy]

I always wear a helmet, even for short maintenance flights. Mind you most of my flying is longline ops particularly drill moves. It’s 33c on the drill job I’m on at the moment, but having a proper fitting helmet I don’t feel any discomfort Feel totally naked without it. What price do you put on a head injury.

[FH1100 Pilot]

The culture isn't going to change until regs require it, and I doubt regulators will as there just aren't enough people affected to justify it.
Why should regulations require helmet usage? Shouldn't certain decisions be left up to the people who will be affected by them?

[Bell_ringer]

Why should regulations require helmet usage? Shouldn't certain decisions be left up to the people who will be affected by them?

I didn't say that they should, just that changes like this only occur when law makers decide they are necessary.
This has been the case with pretty much every safety initiative since the dawn of time, as people, especially businesses, will avoid change because it is either inconvenient or it carries a cost.
There are still plenty of people that avoid seatbelts (and in aircraft, harnesses).

[Vertical Freedom]

I am beginning to think VF requires an XXXXL Helmet....which would take a special order to make one that large.:rolleyes:

If being focussing on Safety First, Safest way always & good Airmanship, which includes wearing a Helmet gives You a swollen head, then I'm guilty of the first bits, but not the swollen head, been wearing XL for decades, thank You

[Vertical Freedom]

Helmets are such a funny thing. Like many things we do it's all about perceived risk vs. real risk, ones' own personal limits for risk, and even about public perception and peer pressure.

For example, I, personally, would NEVER ride a motorcycle on the street without a full face helmet. NEVER. And I have proven to be religious about this, as I used to do the motorcycle work commute thing. And I don't have to, because I live where there are no helmet laws (thank goodness!) But I don't bother to put one on if I take a small dirtbike for a leisurely buzz up one of my trails in the woods. And I despise helmets for bicycling. I will freely admit to this bizarre behavior. From a safety standpoint I should wear an appropriate helmet for all of those activities. But I don't because I feel the risk/reward ratio tilts in the favor of no helmet for me except when on a street bike. The reward is, admittedly, likely to be considered a poor trade-off by many: a feeling of freedom, more physical comfort, better visibility, etc. And yet it tilts back the other way when riding a motorcycle on the street. I can't give you a purely logical argument for how and why I draw the line on helmets, only that I do, even being very well acquainted with the risks for all of these activities, as I was an EMT on a municipal ambulance service for eight years and saw all manner of non-helmet related injuries.

There is also public perception and peer pressure at play. Riding a sportbike and wearing a helmet is considered completely normal in the US. Riding a Harley and wearing a full face helmet not so much. Stupid? You bet. But people like to fit in. Luckily I'm a sportbike kind of guy!

Looking at helicopters, particularly small helicopters like the R44, I would certainly find the the use of a helmet uncomfortable. That alone stops me right there. I have made a risk/reward decision and it came down on the side of "no helmet". Maybe that's stupid, but it's my choice (until some nanny-state yahoo creates legislation--please, please don't do that!) And there would be potential perception issues that would cause some colleagues to find it pretentious and some passengers to worry, but those are lesser and less valid factors. But some people put a high value on "fitting in".

Finally we come to the money issue. Anyone coming up through the US civilian helicopter training world is well familiar with budding pilots who live hand to mouth, eat only Ramen noodles, wear ripped and dirty clothes, because nearly all of their money is being spent on helicopter instruction. These are the folks borrowing school headsets. They legitimately are not going to pony up for a $2500 helmet. Every dime goes to pay for helicopter and instructor time. This applies to many newly-minted CFIs, too.

So, since I can't fly a turbine, don't have a helmet and aren't wearing Nomex, I guess I should just stay in bed? OK, being a little snarky there. You can even get killed in bed ;) But, seriously, while it is perfectly reasonable to point out that we would all be safer with helmets, please recognize that it is not something that everyone wants to do, and please don't MAKE us do it if we don't want to unless we work for you and you demand it. That's fine, your playground, your rules. But otherwise...

All I can say is that my risk/reward line is drawn where I choose to draw it, even knowing and understanding all of the risks, and understanding that wearing a helmet is much safer (and I can afford one, a GOOD one, for every activity, too). It's a complex, personal decision that is not fully driven by logic.

Wearing a helmet has Fvk all to do with perceived risks Mate....Flying a Rotory machine in the environments we fly in has tons of risks, TONS, none are perceived, they are all REAL!

Dirt Bike riding without a crash hat is just silly. I ride mostly Mountain Bikes these days for exercise & man ow man I've lost the number of prangs I've had both on petrol powered & leg powered bikes...dented plenty of Helmets, broken a couple of fingers, lost a bitta bark from legs & but. Can they be a pain wearing? Yes sure, but nothing compared to the head/brain injuries I'd have suffered if I didn't wear one. Once upon a time seat-belts weren't even installed in cars, then later when they were, wearing was an option? Now we have pre-tensioners, air-bags, hefty fines for not wearing blah, blah, blah....Nuff said, safety is an evolving thing that all comes from blood being spilt. I on occasion ride a friends soft-tail Harley, with full-face black Helmet with an scull painted on it, yaaar damn Kool

Shoes can be uncomfortable as well as life-vests, yet You wear......why? Could it be for SAFETY or because it's required by law or company, maybe all of the above.....hmmmmm

Personal inconvenience & choice hey? How about it's in the company SOP's, insurance company requirement, fire department mandate etc. How many Utility, Ag, Seismic, Film, Long-line/VR, Police, EMS(Ozz), Military Pilot's fly as they please naked of their Helmet? NONE, there is a reason for this....statistics! Statistics have proven time & time again Your chance of a survival in a crash is greatly increased if You've donned the Dome onto thy head....Arguing about this is, is living in denial, just do it! Skip the weekend beers & movies, do some overtime, get a temporary second job & just factor it in; because You Love Life & respect Yourself enough to do the right thing, even if it's not a regulation (yet) (I have 2 Friends who survived crashes due to wearing a Helmet, the massive dent left in the Helmet from the AS350 grab-handle would have surely killed him or left him severely brain damaged. But he was smart enough to wear one even though it wasn't required & he is still flying today) Luck or being smart?

Enough ranting from me, have a great weekend!

[pilot_tolip]

Source: https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-robinson-helicopters/

"The Robinson R44, the world’s best-selling civilian helicopter, has a long history of deadly crashes."

[212man]

The abc7 news footage has a patch of ground in front of the wreckage blurred out as if there is a body there. I wonder if one of those on board was ejected during the crash sequence?

[megan]

At one point (years ago), pilots in the offshore industry were discouraged by aviation advisors from wearing helmets (and virtually none wore them). For the reason being, if the passengers saw pilots wearing a flight helmet, they'd want to wear one also. Meaning, one provided to them for free and not bought by them. Easier for pilots not to wear them than supply one of correct fit for each passenger. Anyway, that was the thought process.The budget Gulli, the budget. At $850 a pop they were not about to buy us helmets. They did relent to the extent you could wear one you had purchased yourself. I believe they later reimbursed crews who purchased one.

Re helmets I'm reminded of a story told at the sim. S-76 crashed for reasons I forget, and ended up rolled somewhat to the left, making it difficult for the co-pilot to get out. Captain exited and helped others to extricate the co-pilot, 45 minutes after the crash the Captain collapsed and was not able to be revived. When the aircraft hit on its left side his head had hit the broom closet inflicting an injury that was not readily apparent. Then there was the 412 in Alaska that had a blade pitch link separate and the vibrations put the crews heads through the overhead window, along with being bashed against the door pillar, fortunately wearing helmets. Me? I'd wear a helmet from choice and did wear one in the offshore in the latter days, I spent the $850. Good friend flew a Beech Baron into the side of a hill at night, was not wearing the shoulder strap and head hit the instrument panel. Bled to death and his body still warm when the wreckage was found six hours later. Held the round the world speed record in the Baron for a period of time.

A brain surgeon lecturing on road safety was of the private opinion that helmets should be worn in cars, for that was the source of the majority of his income. Could you see that becoming mandated? Not likely. The choice is yours when defining the level of risk you are willing to accept. A USAF pilot who got badly burnt following an overrun in a T-33 made a career of lecturing crews to wear natural fibre clothing as he had suffered badly from synthetic fibre burns. It's the little things that can change your life for ever.

[John Eacott]

Megan, helmets are significantly more expensive these days!

Gentex in the USA run about $US1600, Australian prices for the Alpha have gone ballistic with a runout sale from McDermotts up around $A2,500. I sold my Alpha and the fellow who bought it was more than happy as he was looking at >$A3,000 for what he wanted, new.

[megan]

Talking mid 90's John, $850 for a new Gentex.

[BigMike]

Alpha Eagle (owned by Gentex these days), and the Gentex HGU-56 are both around $2000 USD ex USA, in a dual visor configuration with the usual mic/earphone set-up.
Looking at at least 4 for the company now. Mandatory for our company ops shortly. I have always worn one regardless, other than early on while doing tourist ops.
What is your life worth? Everyone to their own though.

[SASless]

The choice is yours when defining the level of risk you are willing to accept. A USAF pilot who got badly burnt following an overrun in a T-33 made a career of lecturing crews to wear natural fibre clothing as he had suffered badly from synthetic fibre burns. It's the little things that can change your life for ever.

My National Guard Aviation Operation had the fellow give us a presentation about his T-33 crash....and along with the natural fiber emphasis he also stressed other very important issues re safety and survival actions during crashes.

It was a very good presentation as he was very entertaining while discussing a very serious topic....his dry sense of humor was very enjoyable.

Helmets are an excellent asset when it comes to head trauma events.

Many years ago I laid a motorcycle down at highway speed....killed the motorcycle in the process...and only got a few patches or road rash on me...but dented the Helmet on something hard like the concrete curb but no injury to my noggin.

I bought a new helmet as the other was no longer usable due to the "crush" damage to the interior cushioning material.....about two weeks later....I killed a Deer while riding to work before daylight. Again no damage to me despite my having head butted the Deer as the bike and I simultaneously hit the Deer.

Helmets will save your life....period.

Add NVG's and a Battery Pack...and you might encounter a situation where all that added weight could cause a serious or fatal neck/spinal cord injury however.

[Hot and Hi]

Partially to blame on the low adoption of helmets is the difficulty choosing and obtaining one in many parts or the world. At EUR 2,000 or more a shot you want to try for size and comfort. In our part of the world, I am not aware of a single place where you can do that.

This year I was in the market for a MSA350 helmet (as it was highly recommended by some of the Ppruners here). As I was travelling to Europe, I wrote to MSA Europe headoffice in Berlin, no response. Later I was going to the US. I contacted MSA US, and was told that the MSA350 helicopter helmet was only sold by MSA Singapore and was not available in the States.

[malabo]

This thread needs a little balance. I don’t wear a helmet. Offshore, instructing, fires, corporate, utility. I wore one EMS ‘cause it was required by contract (at our cost). Awkward to pack around for carry-on only baggage when touring. Is it safer to wear one? Sure, I have a whole row of helmets on a shelf, one for kiteboarding, one for road biking, one for mountain biking, two for motorcycle, one for skiing, etc.etc. In today’s world they should just graft one on your head at birth and be done with it. I’d wear one in helicopters east coast offshore just for the comfort standing out on the deck with a November 40 knot gale and sideways sleet. Or SAR/EMS if I needed somewhere to hang the NVG. Otherwise just leave me and vast majority of pilots alone. And you can go ahead and wear one anytime you want, in a car, in a 172, walking down hardwood stairs in wool socks.....

[BigMike]

I agree, it is personal choice, and I'm not for more regulation, however due to where we fly, I have made it mandatory for our company.
We will supply a new helmet at no cost to our pilots, which after a reasonable period of employment they will get to keep.

[megan]

I have a whole row of helmets on a shelf, one for kiteboarding, one for road biking, one for mountain biking, two for motorcycle, one for skiingWhy? I presume you don't wear them, and if you do I have to ask, why?

[eeeyow]

The abc7 news footage has a patch of ground in front of the wreckage blurred out as if there is a body there. I wonder if one of those on board was ejected during the crash sequence?

The student walk out of the helicopter and was sent to a local hospital in "critical condition" and there as been no public update.. The instructor (and owner of my flight school) was pulled out and administered CPR and was declared deceased in the area you saw.

-mick