Le Bourget alternative

[EESDL]

Could any of the smaller airfields south of Paris provide an alternative to Le Bourget - or for any UK-departing traffic would the Paris crossing be too onerous / cause delays?
I only ask as one such airfield has a 1900m runway and road trip to city centre is half what Le Bourget offers....

[atakacs]

What type of aircraft?

[HyFlyer]

Yes LFPM.
Speak to them directly there, as the airfield is still 'developing' in terms of opening hours and immigration etc..(basically none for the time being) but Schengen and Geneva/Basel is fine,. Things are changing, but this is France and so the consistency and quality of that pace of change is not good.
The FBO there is good however

[FlyingBE]

LFPN ? There are few jets down there.

[HyFlyer]

LFPN ? There are few jets down there.

I think you'll find it is weight limited...around 12 Tonnes max...and runways not so long.

[atakacs]

Again the question, if genuine, should be qualified. What kind of aircraft are you flying and what type of service do you require?

[FlyingBE]

I think you'll find it is weight limited...around 12 Tonnes max...and runways not so long.

That's why is we need to know which plane they plan to bring around ;)

[HyFlyer]

Have reached out to EEDSL but no response and no answers to questions here. Strange. A sensible question and then no follow up.

Of the Paris options you have

LFPM - time restrictions and limited for time being to Schengen Geneva & Basel countries direct, but able to handle reasonably efficiently Gulf/GLEX scale aircraft, even with hangar space.

LFPN - 12T max so significant restriction on size, and also customs and operating hours.

LFPT - In the North, further out, and 17T max weight limited, with additional operating hour and customs restrictions

LFOB - Long way out North, but at least with customs and longer hours, but space limited.

LFOK - Way, way out to the East, and NOT space limited as a modern day government 'folly' of a construction. Almost worth the visit to see what waste unchecked bureaucracy can produce. Twice the distance more or less to paris than Oxford to London....!!! So Paris-Vatry seems logical. Although Luxembourg-Vatry makes almost the same sense.

LFPO - In the South, and more costly, and Paris's 'Gatwick', so not ideal for private Ops.

LFPK - East near EuroDisney....no Jet A1, no Nav aids, no lights, no FBO, no customs BUT a nice long runway but nothing else. Parlez Franglais as well on the radio.

So Paris, the least well served major city on the planet, unless you adore the delights (and charges) of Le Bourget.
Makes no sense at all, AND they will host the Olympics in a few years....so the anticipation of the chaos is building.

[Proline21]

Not sure why one would skip Le Bourget when travelling to the Paris area. Totally dedicated to General Aviation, 24hrs for arrivals (not for departures), customs and good FBOs available as well as catering and mintenance options. Driving time to downtown is about 35-60 mins depending when and where you want to move.

We tried Pontoise on customer request and it is partly french only and you need a french TOTAL card to fuel (at least it was like that 2 years ago). Quite a hassle...

[mutt]

LFOB - Long way out North, but at least with customs and longer hours, but space limited.

Look where the 25/27 missed approach for LeBourget brings you and this is the perfect alternate.

[EESDL]

Sorry for lack of timely response - have been a tad busy of late.
Appreciate the information gleaned so far.
just trying to get a handle on any atc issues - good or bad - with trying to get south of the centrelines to a place such as Villaroche

[HyFlyer]

Sorry for lack of timely response - have been a tad busy of late.
Appreciate the information gleaned so far.
just trying to get a handle on any atc issues - good or bad - with trying to get south of the centrelines to a place such as Villaroche

During normal weekdays, it's just fine. Outside normal opening hours and weekends, best is to call the excellent FBO/handling facility on site...they can make arrangements sometimes. Otherwise, like Pontoise it's French only self reporting. They are in process of recruiting an AFIS agent or two and that will substantially solve this issue, as English and French will be covered. So in the next few months or so, and latest end of the year, should all be solved, They're also actively recruiting additional airport fire cover personnel. Currently they have Cat 2 as standard and Cat 5 on request. Aircraft ops and hangar space is good for even large jets Gulfstream/Global etc, offering potential significant savings on LBG. Jet A1 is available and I understand the FBO has it's own fuel truck operational soon. They accept a bunch of fuel cards, but check ahead as I also understand they expanding their offering as well....if you need a specifc card accepted.

FBO/Handling: Elyxan Aviation - FBO Paris Melun-Villaroche - Présentation (http://www.elyxan-aviation.fr/)

The real issue is the ridiculously low level of investment in the right things, and the political pressure to retain ADP Le Bourget as a monopoly option. London has lots of customs equipped options all around the City(Luton, Northolt, Stansted, Biggin Hill, Farnborough, LCY, Southend, Oxford, Cambridge, even Lydd, Blackbushe, in addition to Heathrow and Gatwick . Paris just the one (Le Bourget) as CDG is extremely unfriendly to Corporate and Orly not so simple either, it makes no sense.

Things are gradually changing at LFPM, and there is a small head of steam growing to put pressure on the slow on the system to start putting in place the facilities needed to grow sensibly.

This is going to take place (year 2) at LFPM. 7/8 September, so it could be a cool option to fly into the FBO for this. saldy direct from UK/Ireland not allowed, but OK direct from Schengen/EU as well as Geneva/Basel.
https://airlegend.fr/en/

[172510]

The heliport Issy Les Moulineaux has customs. (Why Toussus & Pontoise don't, I don't know)
It's VFR only.
Day only for private flights.
Twins only for commercial flights.
Easy for your client to commute from Le Bourget, or even Rouen to Issy, weather permitting of course.