Is Schofields Flying Club Bankstown in financial trouble?. [Archive]

RichOfPeak

13th Jul 2019, 01:15

Actually it’s a very dumb reply...🙄
External Administration is not liquidation.
If the doors are still open it could be a case of mismanagement and deposited funds may be ‘safe’.
Being in Cairns I assume you are not a member of SFC and have not been to Bankstown yesterday or today and the question was addressed to those who may have more of an idea than you.

RichOfPeak

13th Jul 2019, 01:22

Glad to hear the doors are still open. Hate to see another club in Australia go under.
By the way. A quick search has now covered any ‘defamation allegations’.
If the doors are still open everyone’s funds are probably still safe.

red_dirt

13th Jul 2019, 02:04

Be very careful, RichOfPeak, you are bordering on defamation!

🤣🤣🤣🤣 id love to see that

tail wheel

13th Jul 2019, 02:52

"SFC" apparently relates to Sydney Flight College, Sydney Flying Club and the parent company, Schofields Flying Club Limited, ACN 000 950 943?

Name: SCHOFIELDS FLYING CLUB LTD
ACN: 000 950 943
Previous state number: 14033144
Previous state of registration: New South Wales
Registration date: 16/12/1971
Next review date: 16/12/2019
Status: External Administration
Type: Australian Public Company, Limited By Guarantee
Locality of registered office: BANKSTOWN NSW 2200
Regulator: Australian Securities & Investments Commission

The Company is under External Administration. "External Administration" is a term which covers all types of insolvency arrangements. An External Administrator is also known as Voluntary Administrator, Liquidator or Receiver.

Uninformed speculation would be quite unhelpful.

If you are owed money from, or owe money to Schofields Flying Club Limited, you should contact the appointed Administrator.

Sky_Warrior

13th Jul 2019, 03:08

Uninformed speculation is quite unhelpful.

There is no administrator that has been appointed. The ASIC entry is a result of the entity that sold the Cirrus to the club trying to call on its PPSR securities on three assets the last board managed to allow them encumbrance on, though I hear there is a current legal dispute over this.

The club is more than healthy financially and is not closing anytime in the near or far future.

But please, those of you that are concerned, contact the appointed 'Administrator'.

RichOfPeak

13th Jul 2019, 03:32

Sky Warrior: I guess the above extract = "Status: External Administration" closes your 'defamation' allegation...:rolleyes:
Have a nice weekend. Safe Flying.

Clare Prop

13th Jul 2019, 04:40

However healthy the flying school may or may not be, payment in advance for flying training is very risky indeed and I doubt they are paying you an interest rate that makes that risk worthwhile. (A discount is worthless if you are an unsecured creditor should the worst case scenario happen). I would advise paying as you go along, wherever you are learning to fly and hoping for the best.

Clare Prop

13th Jul 2019, 10:59

Seems to have been a poison chalice for a lot of schools, the FEE HELP money.

TruthSerum

13th Jul 2019, 13:20

Edit: Post removed as requested

Squawk7700

13th Jul 2019, 22:17

If what you’ve written above is true (and I’m sure we have no reason to believe it’s not, because it sounds quite credible), then you should probably name this individual so we can all be aware in case we come across him. Or perhaps point to a website that may contain his name.

tail wheel

13th Jul 2019, 23:11

SCHOFIELDS FLYING CLUB LTD (ACN: 000 950 943) is an Australian Public Company, Limited By Guarantee and registered under the provisions of the Corporations Act 2001. It's current legal status is that it is under External Administration. It is not a "club" defined by the Associations Incorporation Act 2009 (NSW).

The cause of External Administration may be due to issues of governance, liquidity, solvency or other matters which justify appointment of an independent Administrator. If you are transacting business with the entity it is prudent to be aware the Company has limited protection against claims and is being independently managed.

I have no idea or interest why the Company may be in External Administration and indeed, no connection with or vested interest in the Company, the flying training industry or aviation in NSW. If you have questions contact the Administrator.

"Why would he ask PPRuNe if SFC is in any sort of trouble?"
Please answer A or B:
A: He/she has a genuine interest in the financial welfare of fellow aviators?
B: He/she has a hidden agenda?

How often have I seen that question posted to PPRuNe over the last 20 years? :}

As usual, those that believe emphatically that PPRuNe posts represent 100% truth and fact, also tend to believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden. :)

TruthSerum

14th Jul 2019, 01:05

BigPapi

14th Jul 2019, 01:49

Regardless of the apparent health of any school it's probably not wise to leave money with them for advance payment for training.

Sky_Warrior

14th Jul 2019, 01:57

The cause of External Administration may be due to issues of governance, liquidity, solvency or other matters which justify appointment of an independent Administrator. If you are transacting business with the entity it is prudent to be aware the Company has limited protection against claims and is being independently managed.

Tailwheel, the club/company is NOT being independently managed. Management and the board are the same. It’s business as usual and the company is more than solvent. It relates to three encumbered assets that are trying to be seized by a former director. This is currently the subject of a legal process. Please do not disseminate incorrect information.

CaptainMidnight

14th Jul 2019, 02:12

Or:

C: He/she thinks PPRuNe has members who are either students or members of SFC and therefore might know more than is (or was, till the TruthSerum post) publically available ....

Clare Prop

14th Jul 2019, 03:51

Or:
D: This is a rumour network

JakeG

14th Jul 2019, 03:57

I heard today SFC - Bankstown is under External Administration/Receivers Appointed today?.
Are they still operating?.
Should I get all my money out ASAP?

Who are you?

Squawk7700

14th Jul 2019, 04:32

Post whatever you want, but be mindful of this:

McCormick and CASA questions « Assistance to the Aviation Industry (http://vocasupport.com/mccormick-and-casa-questions/)

pxs

14th Jul 2019, 05:01

Being part of the SFC family I can second "truthserum"s post.

SFC is stable and in a good financial position, it is however unfortunately dealing with a rather unpleasant individual trying to destabilise and disrupt.

The dispute will play out, either way SFC is not going anywhere. Its doors are still open and Its still hands down one of the best organisations in the industry.

Lets just hope that when said person has finished their dirty tricks, they can move on and the SFC community don't have to deal with them again.

tail wheel

14th Jul 2019, 05:59

Tailwheel, the club/company is NOT being independently managed. Management and the board are the same. It’s business as usual and the company is more than solvent. It relates to three encumbered assets that are trying to be seized by a former director. This is currently the subject of a legal process. Please do not disseminate incorrect information.

Ooops, sorry Old Chap. I was only quoting the current Company status from the ASIC web site: https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/RegistrySearch/faces/landing/SearchRegisters.jspx?_adf.ctrl-state=9x6ts4a71_4 (https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/RegistrySearch/faces/landing/SearchRegisters.jspx?_adf.ctrl-state=9x6ts4a71_4)

No offense to you, but I prefer to trust ASIC rather than an anonymous post on an aviation rumour web site. I don't recall ASIC ever being wrong but there is always a first time........

Perhaps you should give ASIC a tingle and let them know their Company records are incorrect?? Their number is: 1300 300 630 :ok:

Bend alot

14th Jul 2019, 06:26

Their website shows that they lost over $1 million in 2017 (sfcaero.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/SFC-2018-AGM-Pack) only just made a profit in 2018. Not sure how stable that makes them.
$1 million is not a lot of money in business "often" - more important is what was it spent on and was it wise expenditure?

Again profit is not always a good thing - what is the current interest rate?

For such a club some expensive investments might be a better option than money in the bank.

tail wheel

14th Jul 2019, 06:27

Or perhaps point to a website that may contain his name.

I'm lead to believe Squawk, that this alleged sHyster is somehow referenced in these web sites??? :}

https://www.uniglobalunion.org/news/paragon-printing-workers-face-losing-over-9million-entitlements (https://www.uniglobalunion.org/news/paragon-printing-workers-face-losing-over-9million-entitlements)
https://globalinsolvency.com/headlines/paragon-staff-stood-down-despite-very-sound-business (https://globalinsolvency.com/headlines/paragon-staff-stood-down-despite-very-sound-business)

Sky_Warrior

14th Jul 2019, 06:30

Ooops, sorry Old Chap. I was only quoting the current Company status from the ASIC web site

No offense to you, but I prefer to trust ASIC rather than an anonymous post on an aviation rumour web site. I don't recall ASIC ever being wrong but there is always a first time........

Perhaps you should give ASIC a tingle and let them know their Company records are incorrect?? Their number is: 1300 300 630 :ok:

Tailwheel, you claim that SFC is being independently managed. This is not true. Call the club and find out for yourself. The ASIC entry "External Admistration" relates to a receiver being appointed to manage the three aircraft that a former director managed to obtain security over for a future alleged debt that the club refuses to pay for and it is the subject of litigation. The receivers power stops at those three aircraft. It's a very broad term, and unfortunate for the club that people will deliberately or otherwise twist its meaning. The receivers do not have the power to manage the club as a whole. They attempted to seize the aircraft but were stopped by the legal process that was already underway. Perhaps you need to ring the receivers and get the story straight. Ring ASIC as well and find out what kind of 'Administration' the club is under. Read Corps Act 2001. Enough now for me adding fuel to this very sad fire, no more comments.

Sunfish

14th Jul 2019, 09:05

..... and thus the Australian Aviation industry tears itself to pieces.

pxs

14th Jul 2019, 09:11

LOL. Haven’t seen over $1 million in investment down at the club.

They lost $1 million because their expenses exceeded their revenue by $1 million. Mind you a quarter of that was salary to two people (according to their website.)

Good on the management and board of SFC for going on then next year and making a profit. They are also on track for another very positive year this year.

Superfly Slick Dick

14th Jul 2019, 13:15

So ahh.. PPRUNE obtains IP addresses of everybody?
So you wanna play rough?
OK..
Say hello to my little friend..(Scarface; for the tards out there)
... a VPN!!!
Does this mean to say I can release some very embarrassing, hurtful information (that I have) without the fear of impunity?

Squawk7700

14th Jul 2019, 13:26

So ahh.. PPRUNE obtains IP addresses of everybody?
You wanna play rough?
OK..
Say hello to my little friend.. a VPN!!!
Does this mean to say I can release some very embarrassing, hurtful information (that I have) without the fear of impunity?

You’ve been watching too many movies where the bad guy hides behind half a dozen VPN’s and firewalls, whilst bouncing across satellites, eluding the FBI and CIA.

That’s not real life. If you do something bad enough, you will be found!

tail wheel

14th Jul 2019, 23:06

Does this mean to say I can release some very embarrassing, hurtful information (that I have) without the fear of impunity?

You set your rules and we'll stay in the game. But there can only be one winner......... :E

Superfly Slick Dick

14th Jul 2019, 23:19

Sorry, I feel I should clear something up..
I don’t know anything about Schofield, or their current situation.
The question about use of VPN and PPRUNE was meant generally.. and nor do I have any intent of releasing damaging (etc) information.

Deceiver

15th Jul 2019, 00:20

What a load of rubbish that is, OP.

This was sent to stakeholders last night: i.imgur.com/BtadXtr.png

patty50

15th Jul 2019, 05:06

I heard a rumour but of my volition had a peek into some publically available information which naturally corroborates some of the above.

For those interested the recent AGM minutes seem quite a bit more exciting than one ordinarily sees. Director expelled and 30k in legal fees in a month! If you want his name click the link.

https://www.sfcaero.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/SFC-2019-AGM-Minutes.pdf

On a what I assume is a totally unrelated point, the clubs total Aircraft Assets last year jumped from $777k to $1365k. I’m no accountant but it seems steep.

The club owns some cherokees, a 152 and a Cirrus SR22T.

According to CASA their only acquisition in 2018 was a 2012 Cirrus SR22T, first registered in Australia (and to schofields) on the 19 July 2018.
No idea what those are worth but seem to be around $500-550k.

SR22T (s/n 0415) VH-DDP used to be registered as N663LF which was officially owned by a trustee having been bought in 2014. Fortunately for us the Cirrus warranty page shows the owners name.

Warranty Status Inquiry (http://warranty.cirrusaircraft.com/statusLookup/warrantyLookup.aspx)

No idea what if anything club members knew about transaction. The Ts and Cs for these deals can be interesting.

BigBusTycoon

15th Jul 2019, 05:49

i'm member at the SFC. I believe that SFC is do ing a great job puting a couple of Cessna's onlin:8e (172, 182). To quote Ghandi "I will not let anyone walk through my mind with their dirty feet." Things were better in the 50's - Make SFC great AGAIN :8 :8 :8 :8 :8

KittyKatKaper

15th Jul 2019, 06:16

Note 9 of the "Notes to the Financial Statements for the Year Ended 31 December 2018" says Transactions with Related Parties
In June 2018, a related company of a Director, Tornado Alley Aviation Pty Ltd, sold an aircraft for to the company for $790,000 based on the market value of the aircraft at the date of purchase.
The amount was financed by entering into a finance lease with a third party for $490,000, $100,000 of flying credits for the Director with the Company, and the remaining $200,000 paid in cash.
At balance date, personal security for the Director exists over three aircraft owned by the Company in relation to the cash payment amounts included in this arrangement.
...

harrryw

15th Jul 2019, 16:30

Sky_Warrior

15th Jul 2019, 20:13

It makes me suspicious that there is more to it when information like the AGM is removed from the website and no news denials are substituted.
It may be that there is no problem but the warning on ASICs site makes care sensible.

Couldn’t help myself.....

or maybe Harryw that info is for members only, not info to be used on rumour networks. If you’re a member, you can easily obtain it. I’m a member, I have access to it.

BTW, there is no ‘warning’ on the ASIC site, and there are no denials substituted. I think most people on this forum have identified the root cause of all of this. Looks like our friend RichOfPeak’s little adverse publicity stunt backfired.

Go Schofields, you will always have my support and good on you for standing up to people trying to destroy something enjoyed by many for their own selfish and greedy ends, even if it means enduring some of the rubbish thrown at you!

gchriste

16th Jul 2019, 04:40

We went through something similar in the aero club I am a member a few years back, senior staff member was *asked* to leave, caused no end of disruption and legal cost. If the financials and business model are solid, the club will come out of it hopefully stronger, which we did. Much better run today and more profitable. Sometimes you just need to go through the pain to deal with the current issue knowing a sound business will remain strong.

UpandRunning

16th Jul 2019, 05:37

Just to get rid off all the guesses or defamation about Sydney Flight College, FYI they are up and running and stable. I am one of many students currently studying at SFC- Bankstown. No sound of trouble.

Squawk7700

16th Jul 2019, 05:38

Politics aside, you’d want a solid business case for putting an $800k aircraft online in a club when your average Cessna probably cost less than a quarter of that!

MalBAU

18th Jul 2019, 09:46

Why ask in here, I deal with them everyday they are still trading strong. Lean of peak sounds like a cirrus owner.

YPJT

18th Jul 2019, 13:23

No sound of trouble.
usually the first a student knows of any trouble at their school is when they are trying to fish their student file and log book out of the skip bin

RichardCheddar

2nd Aug 2019, 11:11

Dear sir,
Thank you for the concern you've shown to all of your peers who have had their money in the not-for-profit flying club. Without your comments, many people may have lost 1's, maybe 10's of dollars in the club vending machine and/or biscuit tin.

Now that the issue seems to be sorted however, I think the club can go back to running their business as per usual. If you would like to put your money back in, now is a good time! I hear they have a shiny new Cirrus.