Swiss Air Force Team Apologizes for Fly-By in Wrong Place

[havoc]

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2019-07-08/swiss-air-force-team-apologizes-for-fly-by-in-wrong-place

BERLIN (AP) — The commander of the Swiss air force's aerial display team has apologized after his unit performed a low-altitude pass over the wrong municipality.

Residents of Langenbruck looked up in vain Saturday while expecting to see Switzerland's Patrouille Suisse squadron swoop by to mark the centenary of the death of local aviation pioneer Oskar Bider.

The team flew over nearby Muemliswil instead.

Switzerland's Defense Ministry said Monday that the formation hadn't practiced the maneuver and got distracted by an unauthorized helicopter in the area. The ministry says the team leader spotted what he thought was a tent for the Langenbruck celebration that turned out to be for a yodeling festival in Muemliswil.

The ministry said the Patrouille Suisse team's red and white F-5E Tiger II jets aren't equipped with GPS devices.

[NutLoose]

Would that be an unauthorised helicopter because they were in the wrong place and it was where it was meant to be.

[ex82watcher]

Didn't a B1 or B52 make an approach and fly-past at Blackbushe a few years ago,rather than Farnborough as intended,before going back to the USA,from where it had departed ?

[Warmtoast]

ex82watcher
Didn't a B1 or B52 make an approach and fly-past at Blackbushe a few years ago,rather than Farnborough as intended,before going back to the USA,from where it had departed ?
Mentioned here on PPRuNe way back in 2004: https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/138328-b-52-bombs-blackbushe.html

...and in Flight Global here: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/third-time-lucky-186086/

[SASless]

The ministry said the Patrouille Suisse team's red and white F-5E Tiger II jets aren't equipped with GPS devices.

I bet they are now!

[ex82watcher]

Thanks Warmtoast - many years before I found this site.

[ve3id]

I bet they are now!
So much for dead reckoning. I say they made a big mistake when they took away the Swiss Armed Forces' bicycles. Well, at least they were not bombers.

[Bladdered]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48916084

[Asturias56]

Could happen to anyone............. didn't the USAF put on a B-52 display at Blackbushe instead of Farnborough one year?

[Pittsextra]

Surely that couldn't happen to the RAF??!

[treadigraph]

I recall a Dutch F-16 starting its Biggin display overhead Kenley - I think an absence of audience save a few startled Air Cadets plus some spluttering over the r/t drew him the few miles to Biggin after the first loop...

[NutLoose]

Or the F111 that did a high speed pass down the wrong runway scaring the poo out of all the gliding activities going on

[bill fly]

According CNN the Patrouille de Suisse just beat up a yodeling festival this weekend - should have been at an aviation function.
Holes in the cheese etc...

[Bonkey]

The company I did my apprenticeship at, Flight Refuelling (now Cobham) had a similar incident in the 60s apparently. To celebrate some event (probably to do with an exploit of the founder, Sir Alan Cobham) the RAF were to carry out a flypast / small display over the Wimborne factory and all the employees came out onto the riverbank to watch at the arranged time. Some rumblings were heard in the distance and it appears the RAF had incorrectly turned up overhead the similar sized Hamworthy Engineering factory in Poole, some 6-7 miles to the south.

Word got round quickly of the RAF's "mishap" and the story has it Sir Alan phoned up a good friend of his at the Fleet Air Arm in Yeovilton and with the Senior Service keen to get one over the RAF, a pair of Sea Vixen's airborne in Lyme Bay quickly obliged and carried out the flypast and display. The event is mentioned in the book "In Cobham's Company" by Colin Cruddas with the note that one of the Vixen's flashed past so low there were visible strong ripples on the surface of the River Stour in front of the factory.

[Maninthebar]

Bet they had a debrief with no fondue, no spoons

[bill fly]

Yep - tea and biscuits and no wine...

[ATC Watcher]

That can happen when you have to fly visually and spot a large marquee with lots of people and car parked around. Not the first time this occur , albeit probably not for them before . Surprisingly they say they did not have someone on the ground to coordinate the slot and make sure no other aircraft is in the display box. We normally all do this . But according the Swiss press it was only a fly-over, not a full show.

[BDAttitude]

Who could blame them joinging a yodeling festival instead of a commemoration ceremony - I can't ;-)
Time for the squadron leader to get a privatly funded Garmin handheld or maybe wait until 2035 for a government sponsored onboard one :p

edit:
The yodel festival patrons are reported to have enjoyed the unexpected show.
Maybe no tea and biscuits but sounds like there would have been some free beer available.

[teeteringhead]

One remembers in the early 70s at the Secret Hampshire Helicopter Base, we were expecting 845 NAS to arrive for some p*ssup or other (sorry - mutual exchange of views and tactics). Airfield waa clear for their arrival, as our RN exchange guys had promised "the Mother of all Beat Ups".

Shame we couldn't see it, but Lasham were very impressed apparently ...........

[bill fly]

That can happen when you have to fly visually and spot a large marquee with lots of people and car parked around. Not the first time this occur , albeit probably not for them before . Surprisingly they say they did not have someone on the ground to coordinate the slot and make sure no other aircraft is in the display box. We normally all do this . But according the Swiss press it was only a fly-over, not a full show.

Too right Watcher -

It happened to a formation consisting of a Victor K1A tanker, Sea Vixen and Buccaneer flying past at Bournemouth Airport to support Sir Alan Cobham's Flight Refuelling celebration. Great excitement as Tankers didn't do low level usually.
There had been a practice run the week before with another crew - mainly to practise the low level RV with the Navy jets. I was Copilot on this one too. We did it at over 500 ft but there were big nav problems on the run in to BOH as the H2S was pretty useless down there and the Plotter, facing rearwards with no window, had to rely on his NBS nav computer. My suggestion to use the backbeam from the ILS would have meant installing a non standard X-tal and was not taken up.... Fortunately we were high enough to see the RW and line up visually.

On the big day we had the following crew:
Captain, Copilot (me) Nav plotter, Nav radar, AEO and a further Nav plotter in the bomb-aimer's window Canberra trained, with a map. I also had a 1/4" map on the knee. What could possible go wrong? After the RV the boss decided we should get a bit lower to do the job, at which point the nose Nav could see below but not ahead, once again the H2S was vague and showed off to the Right and the NBS to the Left. From what I could see of ground clues we were a bit right of track. Plotter has to coordinate and decide. By this time the receivers are plugged in and no large heading changes can be made. Nose Nav suddenly identifies a roundabout (the wrong roundabout according my map) which confirms the Plotter in his belief that we are left and he gives a slight Hdg change right. We are too low to see the RW and go blasting over Bournemouth town a couple of miles or so south of the field.
At the subsequent Tea and Biccies the Captain was told that the crowd just saw the top of the fin and were not too impressed.

Just for fun here is a pic of the gaggle on the practice over the Dorset countriside just after the RV but before the run:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1036x731/photoscan_cefe377e44618352bae8b6597693e50041b6e6f2.jpg

[Wensleydale]

Yodelling? Why am I reminded of "The Lonely Goat-herd"?


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x783/d9spp2h_e45c8a4c_50d1_4a24_8a1e_3de0b9fcbdfb_1__8d6ce5622bf2 163aa214854a1e2f960172c7d763.png

[dead_pan]

I mean, how hard would it be to mark the display site with smoke? Just deploy a spotter aircraft ahead of the main package - job done.

[OvertHawk]

So much for dead reckoning. I say they made a big mistake when they took away the Swiss Armed Forces' bicycles. Well, at least they were not bombers.

When it comes to bombers being in the wrong place, the last people you should point the finger at is the Swiss.

They spent years being accidentally bombed by the allies during World War Two and suffered significant causalities.

There is a reason that the Swiss used to paint their flags on the roofs of their houses!

OH

[astir 8]

But they did interrupt a yodelling competition. Every cloud has a silver lining!

[TBM-Legend]

Yodelling up the valley! Those were the days!!!!

[AN2 Driver]

What I hear is that the guys at the yodeling festival liked the performance just fine and the only question around was "who the heck organized that superb surprise?"

The village the festival was is a very short distance from Langenbruck and the people there waiting for the pass actually saw them form up and expected them to come back. It was a festivity to honour a famous Swiss army pilot by the name of Oskar Bider who is from and buried in Langenbruck.

The F5's don't have GPS but they do have IRS.

As this was not a full performance but just a fly by, there was considerably less preparation than in a normal display.

[NutLoose]

Many moons ago i read about the U2 or blackbird sortie over some bad guys country, they had pushed for a GPS system for years and it and been refused, so the crews chipped in bought a handheld, on one long sortie the nav system failed over bad guys country and the crew managed to complete the mission using their cheap handheld, after that they got them fitted.

[NutLoose]

The village the festival was is a very short distance from Langenbruck and the people there waiting for the pass actually saw them form up and expected them to come back.

Rather like the thousands upon thousands that turned up to see the Vulcan do its farewell pass at EGNX to watch it in the far distance turn and disappear to save time by "cutting the corner".

[NutLoose]

U2 crews get issued a GPS watch

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/blog/aviation/united-states-air-force-selects-d2-charlie-aviator-watch/

[Fg Off Bloggs]

Reminds me of the time that Upper Heyford F-111s were tasked with an airfield attack at Honington for a station exercise. Such was their navigation skill that the base Hunters tasked with airfield defence were diverted to the Aardvarks to point them in the right direction - which of course resulted in 2 hours in gas masks for us poor unfortunates stuck on the ground, which could have been avoided if the powers that be had left the USAF to find its own way to the target!

I wonder if they ever got home safely!?

[Wander00]

85 ish, retirement of wg cdr branch officer FC, John ????? Lightning due to do flypast. Aunty Joan talking to Lightning pilot.
"Where are you?"
"Just pulling up between the two towers"
"We don't have towers",, but there were at Bacton gas terminal.......

[Arfur Dent]

Stories like this emphasise just what a brilliant team the Red Arrows are. Never heard of them displaying in the wrong place or confusing timings/run-ins or whatever. Well done chaps - I bet someone will have witnessed something but I never did.

[melmothtw]

When it comes to bombers being in the wrong place, the last people you should point the finger at is the Swiss.

They spent years being accidentally bombed by the allies during World War Two and suffered significant causalities.

There is a reason that the Swiss used to paint their flags on the roofs of their houses!

Indeed, The Day We Bombed Switzerland is a great read if you haven't already found it... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Day-We-Bombed-Switzerland-U-S-Eighth/dp/1840371358

[melmothtw]

Stories like this emphasise just what a brilliant team the Red Arrows are. Never heard of them displaying in the wrong place or confusing timings/run-ins or whatever. Well done chaps - I bet someone will have witnessed something but I never did.

The Reds themselves seem a little more circumspect on the subject than that...

https://twitter.com/RAFRed1/status/1148882785395970048

[skua]

The Reds do of course have retrofitted GPS to hinder this sort of cock-up.....

[walbut]

I worked at Pilatus Aircraft in the late 1980's, on loan from British Aerospace, to help sort out some PC 9 engine issues that were particularly problematic in high temperature operations. The relationship between Pilatus Aircraft and Pratt and Whitney Canada was pretty fractious and both companies were blaming each other for the main problem. The local P and WC rep had served as aircrew in the USAF during the second world war, if I remember rightly he had been a B17 pilot. When relations between the companies were particularly strained, he used to take great delight in telling us that he had bombed Switzerland during the war. I don't think it had been entirely accidental as there was some suggestion that the Swiss had been supplying the Germans with engineering components, possibly bearings.

Walbut

[ShyTorque]

Stories like this emphasise just what a brilliant team the Red Arrows are. Never heard of them displaying in the wrong place or confusing timings/run-ins or whatever. Well done chaps - I bet someone will have witnessed something but I never did.

But it only takes one mistake.....

There's a joke about Welsh professionals taking years to earn their reputation but Dai only had to $ha& one sheep for him to get his nickname.

[fallmonk]

Wasnt there a SR71 crew did something similar in England many moons back?
Am sure i watched a interview with a crew member or read it in a book, The got mixed up in a foggy day when ment to do a fly by.

[Mil-26Man]

Wasnt there a SR71 crew did something similar in England many moons back?
Am sure i watched a interview with a crew member or read it in a book, The got mixed up in a foggy day when ment to do a fly by.

"You've never been lost until you've been lost at Mach 3" is a quote I heard from an SR71 pilot.

[dead_pan]

Wasnt there a SR71 crew did something similar in England many moons back?
Am sure i watched a interview with a crew member or read it in a book, The got mixed up in a foggy day when ment to do a fly by.

​​​​​​The story I remember (here on PPRuNe?) was when an SR-71 almost came a cropper when looking for a group of air cadets promised a fly-by, the crew in question spent a little too much time looking out of the window, too little on their airspeed. Fortunately they realised their predicament in time, and gave the cadets one helluva surprise

[Airbubba]

​​​​​​The story I remember (here on PPRuNe?) was when an SR-71 almost came a cropper when looking for a group of air cadets promised a fly-by, the crew in question spent a little too much time looking out of the window, too little on their airspeed. Fortunately they realised their predicament in time, and gave the cadets one helluva surprise

Here's the story of the SR-71 pass over the cadets as told by Brian Shul.

Now, this is no s**t... ;)

The story comes from retired U.S. Air Force Maj. Brian Shul (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Shul), and it was posted by our friends over at Sierra Hotel Aeronautics (https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=955817077816741&id=196749240390199&substory_index=0) who generously allowed us to share it here. Here’s Shul on the Blackbird’s speed: “As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the question I’m most often asked is ‘How fast would that SR-71 fly?’ I can be assured of hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It’s an interesting question, given the aircraft’s proclivity for speed, but there really isn’t one number to give, as the jet would always give you a little more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a minute.

Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and never wanted to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any limits of temperature or speed.. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own individual ‘high’ speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over Libya when Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order. Let’s just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly took us to Mach numbers we hadn’t previously seen.

So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my presentations, someone asked, ‘What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?’ This was a first. After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I had never shared before, and I relayed the following.

I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England, with my back-seater, Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and the Iron Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As we scooted across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF base in the English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cadet commander there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a motivating moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low approach. No problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refuelling over the North Sea, we proceeded to find the small airfield.

Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the back seat, and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic speeds, we found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze. Like most former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a small tower and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were close and that I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing but trees as far as I could see in the haze. We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325 knots we were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just uncomfortable. Walt said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing in my windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneuver in hopes of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, below, the cadet commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in order to get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with no wind and partial gray overcast. Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be below us but in the overcast and haze, I couldn’t see it. The longer we continued to peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our power back, the awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors in my flying career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges. As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my heart stopped and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full forward. At this point we weren’t really flying, but were falling in a slight bank. Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous roar of flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell into full view of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still quiet of that morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in their face as the plane levelled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower side of the infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be described as some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass.

Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Mildenhall without incident. We didn’t say a word for those next 14 minutes. After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both certain he was reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and said the commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had ever seen, especially how we had surprised them with such a precise maneuver that could only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cadet’s hats were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in full afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable. Walt and I both understood the concept of ‘breathtaking’ very well that morning and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to see our low approach.

As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits to flight suits, we just sat there-we hadn’t spoken a word since ‘the pass.’ Finally, Walter looked at me and said, ‘One hundred fifty-six knots. What did you see?’ Trying to find my voice, I stammered, ‘One hundred fifty-two.’ We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, ‘Don’t ever do that to me again!’ And I never did.

A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall Officer’s club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an SR-71 fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story included kids falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singed their eyebrows. Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in our hands, he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had occurred. Walt just shook his head and said, ‘It was probably just a routine low approach; they’re pretty impressive in that plane.’

Impressive indeed.”



https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-sr-71-blackbirds-most-spectacular-flyover-was-also-1719654907

[chopper2004]

I worked at Pilatus Aircraft in the late 1980's, on loan from British Aerospace, to help sort out some PC 9 engine issues that were particularly problematic in high temperature operations. The relationship between Pilatus Aircraft and Pratt and Whitney Canada was pretty fractious and both companies were blaming each other for the main problem. The local P and WC rep had served as aircrew in the USAF during the second world war, if I remember rightly he had been a B17 pilot. When relations between the companies were particularly strained, he used to take great delight in telling us that he had bombed Switzerland during the war. I don't think it had been entirely accidental as there was some suggestion that the Swiss had been supplying the Germans with engineering components, possibly bearings.

Walbut

Al Yamamah Project by any chance? As RSAf selected PC-9.

cheers


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x720/c43633f4_aad3_4621_8edf_ad62be3a8f8c_202412938c73749355c331e 07b07f07e019cf104.jpeg

[dead_pan]

Cheers Bubba!

On a related topic, at RIAT a few years back the other Swiss display team (PC7) were holding just to the south of Witney awaiting their display slot and decided to put in a few last minute practice moves, coincidentally almost overhead a local village fete, much to the bemusement of those attending.

[walbut]

Chopper2004

That's the one. When we started the customer's pilots wanted to put them all in a hanger and weld the doors shut and Pilatus and P and WC were on the point of suing each other. We fixed it by a combination of engine and airframe mods and in the end every one was happy and the best of friends again. Interesting times.

Walbut

[bill fly]

Just to round it off, team commander‘s apology has been accepted and tea and biscuits all round.
Team had received a warning about a helicopter in the area just before arrival and while looking for it overflow the venue.
Very close by saw a marquee - rest is known.