Why Isn’t The VFRG Available For Download?

[Sunfish]

Am I missing something or is there no downloadable VFRG? Some of us may not always have internet access and a physical copy wastes weight and space.

[bankrunner]

Am I missing something or is there no downloadable VFRG? Some of us may not always have internet access and a physical copy wastes weight and space.


Old versions were available as a PDF. I think they stopped with the 2015 version.

CASA have "improved" it by turning it into a website that's completely useless offline.

[Lookleft]

Why not take a photo of the relevant pages from your hard copy on your phone? There is always a workaround.

[Far Canel]

https://www.casa.gov.au/sites/default/files/casr-part-91-general-operating-flight-rules-plain-english-guide-example.pdf

Saw this at my local aeroclub the other day. Quiet a good little refresher on the VFR stuff. :ok:

[Stickshift3000]

I believe it is no longer offered in digital form as it was perceived to be harder regarding version control when out in the wild.

Gotta love that CASA publishes ‘plain English’ guides of legislative standards that are already required to be clear & precise...

[Sunfish]

Stick: I believe it is no longer offered in digital form as it was perceived to be harder regarding version control when out in the wild.

Are they crazy? The reverse will happen! Nobody is going to go out and buy a new vfrg every few months. Dog eared paper copies of “old” VFRG will just proliferate.

Compare that with a simple .pdf and a broadcast email; “The VFRG has changed, download your new copy here(with link)”. This is something like what Rotax does. They updated the 912 iS poh a few days ago and it’s already in my library.......and I’m quite a few miles from home ATM.

[Okihara]

With the current VFR G not available as a PDF any longer, I have actually seen people rely on past editions of the PDF reasoning that not enough could have changed to warrant buying a new one. You have to say, brilliant side effect in the epic quest to promote safety.

As to why nobody simply scans and shares the document, that is precisely the thing that I never understood in the community of pilots in Australia (assuming that such thing exists, that is). Back in my uni days in Europe, doing things on the cheap was the motto. Not because we were cash strapped albeit many of us were but because we were trying to be smart (at the expense of honesty and exemplary behaviour, perhaps but making money out of students is equally if not more disgraceful). One student would buy a textbook or lecture notes and make copies or a scan thereof for their mates. Everyone would obviously chip in which meant more coffee and beer (or whatever we were on at that time) at the end of the week for everyone. Here in Australia it literally beats me every time the N+1th student pilot buys the exact same textbooks or sample exams as the previous N ones before them instead of just recycling them from previous folks. Not that it surprises me any longer that people tend to spend their money very foolishly at these low latitudes but they will be using their copy for a single exam before tossing it under the bed and repeating the process. It also beats me that flight schools won't purchase a couple of ERSA and charts for the students to take on their flights. You have to love paying that 40% markup on your VTC from the pilot shop when you can have it for free online* or, if you insist on having a paper version, ordering it from the official publisher.

But that's just that fellows. I figured, I might just be the only pilot out there who apparently hasn't bought Aviation Theory Centre or Skylines shares yet.

* If you have trouble displaying the large PDF of charts, PM me and I'll give you a trick or two.

[Stickshift3000]

As to why nobody simply scans and shares the document, that is precisely the thing that I never understood in the community of pilots in Australia.

We Aussies are too lazy to share pirated material, we just take it from others.

Seriously, I can’t be arsed scanning hundreds of irregularly-sized pages just for the benefit of a few people. In my opinion the VFRG is the best general, regulatory guide out there for the average VFR pilot.

[Alpha Whiskey Bravo]

I tried to make it available in PDF but was overruled due to the need for “Cost Recovery”.

I wrote the the first one in 6 weeks from scratch due to a very skilled colleague who cleared the way. The last one I produced prior to leaving the place took twice as long to get the project plan and risk assessment approved before even starting work!
The vast majority of the Safety Promotion(Communications/Stakeholder Engagement) team work very hard to overcome some very difficult hurdles within the molasses of Public Service.

If everybody smashes the feedback button with the same requests, it will happen you know!

Oh oh and there is a rumor that the Flight Safety Australia magazine is coming back in the print format. Three thumbs up for that one.

Stay Safe
AWB

[Sunfish]

“cost recovery?” What about the logistics costs first of all printing, then warehousing and distribution to various points of sale? Then there is the question of stock holding costs, reprints. Then there is the cost involved in version control and updates, including pulping old stock, processing returns from sales outlets, distribution of new stock and the whole process of changeover to a new version including transition arrangements. Then there is the cost of working capital involved.

Has all that been taken into account in “cost recovery?” How slow and snail like the process? How is the information going to reach the maximum number of pilots at minimum cost to everyone? It isn’t.

You can publish and distribute online for a fraction of the cost of using dead trees - and that’s another thing, what about the environmental costs of paper usage as well as the extra weight and fuel burn?

Just ask for an email for update notification, maybe put an automatic watermark on the .pdf as it’s downloaded to prevent unauthorised distribution if you like, then you have fast easy efficient and effective distribution of the latest safety information to the pilot community that needs it. Manufacturers like Dynon, Rotax and goodness knows who else puts this sort of information on the web for free and updates it regularly with full version controls as well - this isn’t rocket science.

And another thing. Why in this century am I not able to reserve an aircraft registration Set of letters on the web in seconds?

[swh]

I thought the reason they stopped it was a federal budget cut for coloured data, and a green initiative to cutback on unnecessary wasted coloured pixels that would pollute the cloud. The cloud pollution is a major contributing factors to internet warming.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

V… F...… G...

Mr swh

Cheeerrrsss

[djpil]

I tried to make it available in PDF but was overruled due to the need for “Cost Recovery”.So that is the inside story however their customers were told something totally different.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/745x448/casavfrgstatement030915_f225318584c36a29b8cf3b2a1193562ddddd 6dc4.png
Facebook 3/9/15

If everybody smashes the feedback button with the same requests, it will happen you know!Oh oh and there is a rumor that the Flight Safety Australia magazine is coming back in the print format. Three thumbs up for that one.
Stay Safe
AWBI dunno, AWB, seems to me that those who disagree are labelled https://www.flightsafetyaustralia.com/2017/12/the-unreachables-are-they-unteachable/

[Okihara]

Well. The VFRG is a distilled version of the AIP. The AIP has a release date on it and it's a downloadable document. Therefore I see no valid argument here why the same can't be done for the VFRG.

[Sunfish]

“as keeping it online ensures..... everyone is using up to date information.” only in Canberra! Try living in regional Australia where internet access is often marginal, if it’s available at all. It’s also expensive.

Your “user case” obviously didn’t include 5am. in an outback motel.

Why didn’t CASA consult this group who could have told them about the “online experience” over much of Australia. The only thing slower is the postal service. At least with a downloadable version, you could keep a copy on a memory stick.

To put it another way, accessing the internet multiple times to look at the VFRG isn’t going to happen at all in regional Australia, so the “up to date data” excuse doesn’t wash.

Wait until they find out.....

https://birrraus.com/




“ (https://birrraus.com/)Internet Survey unearths critical need for widespread changes to combat #DataDrought

The Better Internet for Rural, Regional and Remote Australia (BIRRR) Regional Internet Access Survey, released this week, has revealed critical problems with Australia’s current internet options, and warns of long-term consequences if changes are not urgently made.

The survey, distributed through the BIRRR Facebook group, investigates current consumer conditions for people in rural, regional and remote areas of Australia using the internet.

The in-depth report found that rural, regional and remote people are severely disadvantaged in terms of access, speeds, cost and reliability of their internet connections, whether they be via mobile broadband or via satellite.

These issues have had (and continue to have) a dramatic effect on rural, regional and remote peoples business, the education of their children and themselves, and on their personal well-being.

It also illustrates the notion – even with the onset of NBN’s Skymuster – that data growth will soon outgrow the nbn Fair Use Policy that will see 75GB/month peak use data limits on customers.

Among the statistics revealed from this survey:

• Internet in RRR Australia is mainly used for business (Fig 2, p 8)
• 88% of RRR respondents stated current data did not meet their needs (Fig 5, p10)
• Mobile Broadband costs those surveyed an average of $9.27 per GB, with some consumers paying up to $20 per GB. (p18)
• Satellite broadband costs an average of $15.96 per GB, with some consumers paying up to $70 per GB (Table 20, p 28)
• 63% of respondents are shaped more than 6 times per year, with over 40% being shaped every single month. (Table 11 p 19 for mobile, Table 23, p 29 for satellite)
• 74% of mobile broadband users (Fig 11, p21) and 89% of satellite users (Fig 18, p 30) have download speeds under 5Mbps
• 72% of mobile broadband users had to purchase extra equipment at their own cost, usually between $1000 – $2000 (Fig 20, p33)
• 73 % respondents do not have reliable mobile coverage (Fig 20, p33)
• 41% said their address would not register on the NBN database. (Fig 21, p 35)
• 65% of people not confident that they are aware of their nbn options (Fig 23, page 40)
• 92% gave a score of six or above indicating that they would recommend the BIRRR to friends and family (Fig 24, p 41)

BIRRR founder and admin Kristy Sparrow said the results reinforce the need for an independent telecommunications advisory body to help guide consumers through the bush broadband ‘jungle of options and answers’, along with an established universal service guarantee for regional Australians.

“There needs to be an established service guarantee for internet services Australia wide. Service for regional, rural and remote customers should be equitable in terms of speed, download capabilities and costs.

“If this does not occur regional Australia will be left (even further) behind.”

[Stickshift3000]

Cost recover was the potential reason given.

You know where to provide feedback...

[Ozgrade3]

VFRG Digital Recipe

Ingredients
1 x VFRG
1 x Photocopier with auto feed tray
scan VFRG chapters to an email address - you usually cant do the whole document in one go
use a pdf binder app to join the chapters in to one .PDf document
Bingo, one DIY digital copy.
Easy peazy.

[Sunfish]

Ozgrade, while you are correct, the existence of pirate .pdfs guarantees that a section of the community will never have up to date information,

[clark y]

This really is a third world country.

As for compliance with a digital copy, it would not be hard to see which ARN has downloaded what.
Maybe a few (thousand) REPCONs to the ATSB might push this and the whole rewrite of our regulations out into the pubic eye. Any legal types upto writing a standard letter we could all use?

[Vag277]

See here Civil Aviation Safety Authority | Visual Flight Rules Guide (http://vfrg.casa.gov.au/?utm_source=phplist1867&utm_medium=email&utm_content=HTML&utm_campaign=OnTrack%20website%20no%20longer%20available%20% 5BSEC%3DUNCLASSIFIED%5D)

[Sunfish]

it’s not downloadable as a single .pdf.

[junior.VH-LFA]

I notice they've also taken On Track down; which is a shame. I'm about to do my first VFR light single flight in 5 years, it would have been nice to revise!

[Stickshift3000]

Ozgrade, while you are correct, the existence of pirate .pdfs guarantees that a section of the community will never have up to date information,

This. There have already been amendments (corrections) circulated associated with Edition 6 (2018).

[Sunfish]

As a test, I just downloaded the latest skyview installation manual (596 Pages) to my ipad book application. Total time - less than 30 seconds, and I’m currently on a home wi-fi network in a far away place where the connectivity is not that great.

I could also have downloaded a “red lined” version that shows me the latest changes...

Since VFRG is primarily a reference document How could reverting to an online version be safe unless there is a change log and marked up version as well? One would never know what has been changed. Same goes for paper.

[Lead Balloon]

I remember when an AL of AIP was issued as plastic pages, on the grounds that there would be so few changes to AIP in the future (from back then) that the content of each page would become permanent. Such optimism was quaintly amusing.

Doing the VFG properly, continuously, takes a lot of work by a lot of competent people, not least because of the chronic state of flux of and ever-growing volume of the rules. I doubt whether CASA’s finite resources can justifiably be diverted to that work and away from other priorities.

Most VFR accidents aren’t caused by a lack of knowledge of the rules. It’s mostly a lack of compliance with the rules, either through inexperience or poor judgment. I don’t see how having an electronic copy of the VFG available will help that much, but I’m happy to stand corrected. I suppose it’s possible that end of daylight calculations would be carried out more frequently and accurately if an up to date copy of the VFG was available for download, but I don’t understand why.

[Okihara]

Speaking of keeping content up to date being easier with an online version: here's a good example :

Checklist | Civil Aviation Safety Authority (http://vfrg.casa.gov.au/operations/night-vfr/checklist/)

Check point #6 still refers to ARFOR (as of July 2019 :ugh:) and the reference therein, AIP ENR 1.1 – 87, refers to nothing pertaining to NVFR (:ugh:)

... NICE! (I'll stick to my PDF).

[Lead Balloon]

...which raises an important point:

If you’re relying on CASA to educate you on what the rules are ‘now’, using on-line resources, think again! The organisation has been in various states of busted-ness for a couple of decades or so. It doesn’t have the critical mass of resources and expertise to keep the published guidance material up to date with the ever-changing regulatory regime.

[Meinte]

Regarding the PDF, I was wondering this myself, and came upon this post. I decided to write a tool that transforms casa's vfrg website to a PDF. I've hosted it on my website, but unfortunately can't post the link here as I never post on pprune(you need 10 posts to be able to post a link). Send me a pm though, and I'll send through the link.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Meinte, you could always just type out the link and us plebs could just cut and paste :p

[Meinte]

Ah yes.
It's at hellomeinte.com/projects/vfrg

PDF link at the bottom, sits at around 30mbs

[Okihara]

Such a positive contribution, a great many thanks!

[Stickshift3000]

Nice work!

[LeadSled]

Ah yes.
It's at hellomeinte.com/projects/vfrg

PDF link at the bottom, sits at around 30mbs
Excellent contribution!!
Tootle pip!!

[PatrickF]

Ah yes.
It's at hellomeinte.com/projects/vfrg

PDF link at the bottom, sits at around 30mbs

Great stuff Meinte - thanks

[Aussie Bob]

An awesome contribution, many thanks for your work.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Meinte, excellent work! Even clear, concise and no pretty pictures and diagrams. Bravo Zulu!

[OZBUSDRIVER]

.....so that's how a web crawler works! Meinte, thanks for your education. I learned something today, thank-you:ok: