Antonov AN-124-100?

[GLIDER 90]

Afternoon All

With recently watching a you tube video on the Antonov AN-124-100, with far as I know there is the standard flight deck crew of five. How many extra crew do they normally carry? in the video it looked like an extra eight plus one of them was sitting what looked like a radio operatives position, but this was not on the flight deck but way back down the aircraft?

[SpringHeeledJack]

Was it a Russian Air Force machine ? As far as the civilian workhorses go it would just be the loadmasters and any odds and sods outside of the main crew.

[aloominumtoob]

Hi,
When I started working with Antonov Design Bureau (ADB) on the 124-100, we would trundle around with a total crew of.......22. at the pointy end, there were: 2 pilots, 1 Navigator, 2 Flight Engineers and 1 Radio Operator. Therefore,a basic operating flight deck crew of 6. To this we had an extra pilot and an extra navigator for "long days." In addition, up front we had 1 Western Flight Manager (Air Foyle's rep.,) and 1 Ukrainian Flight Manager (ADB.) So, pointy end = 10. In the rear compartment, there was 1 Loadmaster and 11 Technicians/Loading crew. which puts us up to the 22. Over a period of a few years, we AF Flight Managers put it across that if some of the Techies were cross trained it would save the company roundabout $4 million per year. The crew was then reduced to 18, knocking off 4 techies. It does seem a lot of people, but remember, the techies were also the loaders, and with the type of aeroplane, the aircraft equipment and systems plus the type of loads we carried, western ways of doing things etc., would not have worked. On quite a few ocaisions we have taken over 24 hours to load, (we didn't have unions), and that was not due to the loaders being slack, but due to the complexity of the load. We started the load and did not stop until it was all on. Meals taken in shifts.
I was proud of the time I worked with ADB and the work we all did. A very strong, dependable aeroplane as is the 225.
Cheers the noo,:ok:
alt

[GLIDER 90]

aloominumtoob

Thanks for the information much appreciated, i was looking on you tube and was watching a video about Antonov Design Bureau An 124 it was a very interesting documentary about the aircraft. Have seen a number of these aircraft in the UK and never fail to impress me.

[atakacs]

I am pretty sure there isn't any AN-124 based in the UK. Obviously you have the odd cargo operation but I'm afraid with only the Ukrainian being able to keep them flying the visits will be rare.

[GLIDER 90]

No there is not any UK based AN-124 to my knowledge, they come to the UK quite frequently the first one I saw was in the 90's.

[atakacs]

Sure

But out of the 50 remaining airframes I guess the only one you might see anymore are the 7 operated by Antonov. Volga-Dnepr can not operate in the European airspace anymore and I don't expect the Russian airforce to do much cargo moving in the UK. Just trying to say that this will very likely be a rarer sighting.

[chevvron]

We had 3 in at Farnborough once to transport Land Rovers to Siberia for some motoring competion.
They all flew in from Ukraine, loaded the Land Rovers, and departed direct to Siberia without re-fuelling. That's some fuel load!
Air Foyle operated them under contract but none were based in the UK. When they were asked to transport freight into Farnborough for the airshow one year, Air Foyle refused saying the runway wasn't long enough.
When the Antonov design bureau heard this, they said 'no problem' and their Chief Test Pilot flew the freight into Farnborough, Air Foyle having tried to take out an injunction to stop them.
I saw the letter the CTP sent to the high court to refute Air Foyle's objections.

[Lantern10]

There are some great stories about the Antonov's capabilities in Matt Potters book "Outlaws Inc."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzTDD3vNl3w&t=68s

[Anilv]

Was working in SIN in the early 90s and got to see the mighty AN-124 in action. This was a time of change for the Soviet Union and for the most part its people were still treated like back in the good old days of the Iron Curtain (eg risk of them claiming asylum was not accepted by Russia as well as the visiting country!). Their crew would stay with the aircraft and even perform maintenance tasks like removing and servicing components until it was time to depart, I would imagine these would have been the techies/loadies and the crew would be safe in their bunks getting some rest. We would go to the aircraft and there would be some trading .. our fine Casio watches for a mechanical Russian watch for instance. There usually had a goodish supply of Russian aluminium badges/medals with military designs and for the very brave...liquor! They would ask for USD but would eventually setlle for SGD.

The loadies were required to operate the interior cranes and to sequence the load according to the load-masters instructions, it was good to watch how well they worked together.. not much uneccessary shouting and drama.. just whistles and a few calls. Very proffessional The loadmaster worked from a wooden table and chair that they carried along with them.

Anilv

[tdracer]

Volga-Dnepr can not operate in the European airspace anymore and I don't expect the Russian airforce to do much cargo moving in the UK.

AirBridge Cargo is part of Volga-Dnepr - does that mean they are not allowed in European airspace as well, and if yes, how come?
My exposure to AirBridge was pretty favorable (they bought several 747-8F).

Slight thread drift - I recall a plan to build some new AN-124s using western engines - specifically CF6-80C2 engines. Did that all fall apart?
I used to see the occasional AN-124 flying in and out of Boeing Field, usually to deliver Trent 800 engines for new build 777s when Rolls got a bit behind. The takeoff performance when they departed definitely left a bit to be desired, so I figured a re-engine would result in a much better aircraft.

[DaveReidUK]

Volga-Dnepr can not operate in the European airspace anymore

I think you're mistaken, unless it's a very recent restriction (EDDK, last month):

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x433/ra_82081_9ad3f1b9b27e42d9f338108571f56aa5266e84a5.jpg

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Volga-Dnepr-Airlines/Antonov-An-124-100-Ruslan/5561005

[ATNotts]

I am pretty sure there isn't any AN-124 based in the UK. Obviously you have the odd cargo operation but I'm afraid with only the Ukrainian being able to keep them flying the visits will be rare.

They could almost be considered regular visitors to East Midlands Airport - certainly not head turners, though as an enthusiast they attract my attention.

[Krystal n chips]

Hi,
When I started working with Antonov Design Bureau (ADB) on the 124-100, we would trundle around with a total crew of.......22. at the pointy end, there were: 2 pilots, 1 Navigator, 2 Flight Engineers and 1 Radio Operator. Therefore,a basic operating flight deck crew of 6. To this we had an extra pilot and an extra navigator for "long days." In addition, up front we had 1 Western Flight Manager (Air Foyle's rep.,) and 1 Ukrainian Flight Manager (ADB.) So, pointy end = 10. In the rear compartment, there was 1 Loadmaster and 11 Technicians/Loading crew. which puts us up to the 22. Over a period of a few years, we AF Flight Managers put it across that if some of the Techies were cross trained it would save the company roundabout $4 million per year. The crew was then reduced to 18, knocking off 4 techies. It does seem a lot of people, but remember, the techies were also the loaders, and with the type of aeroplane, the aircraft equipment and systems plus the type of loads we carried, western ways of doing things etc., would not have worked. On quite a few ocaisions we have taken over 24 hours to load, (we didn't have unions), and that was not due to the loaders being slack, but due to the complexity of the load. We started the load and did not stop until it was all on. Meals taken in shifts.
I was proud of the time I worked with ADB and the work we all did. A very strong, dependable aeroplane as is the 225.
Cheers the noo,:ok:
alt

Nice post. Flew in one...once, Got the opportunity after stripping down the last "Nimrod " due to be converted....but wasn't as we know, from Waddington to Woodford. The front crew were as you stated, the rear crew slightly fewer as I recall,

As engineers, we were fascinated by the interior and systems on display, plus the high tech broom !. One of the more interesting flights I've been on.......also notable was the, ahem, demarcation between front and rear crews. Have to say those guys worked hard though, laying out the ramps isn't a light task and we noticed they opened the cowls on the T/R at Woodford.

Here's one, of several, clips showing our arrival at Woodford and emptying the contents of the hold......it has to be said the landing was "firm ".....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYbg17eMrfQ

[The AvgasDinosaur]

The AN-225 is even more impressive. Rumour was a bit back that the Chinese were intending to complete the second one, any one know if they’ve started yet ?
Be lucky
David

[atakacs]

The AN-225 is even more impressive. Rumour was a bit back that the Chinese were intending to complete the second one, any one know if they’ve started yet ?
Be lucky
David
I have seen some pictures of recent work (past months I'd say) being done on the rear part of #2. No idea if it is in any way related.

[chevvron]

The AN-225 is even more impressive. Rumour was a bit back that the Chinese were intending to complete the second one, any one know if they’ve started yet ?
Be lucky
David
Explored it when it visited Farnborough; in my recollection only 3 permanent seats on the flight deck (accessed by a vertical ladder) plus a couple of armchairs.
In the hold was a large dining table covered in empty bottles (mostly vodka/white rum etc)
And it was supposed to be flying in the display 2 hours later! Not surprisingly it was a 'no show', even though BAe said they would pay the fuel bill.

[TCU]

We had 3 in at Farnborough once to transport Land Rovers to Siberia for some motoring competion.
They all flew in from Ukraine, loaded the Land Rovers, and departed direct to Siberia without re-fuelling. That's some fuel load!

You must have missed the bowser Chevvron, The Volga-Dnepr Group quotes range at max payload as 4,500km. Wiki gives it a maximum range (payload not noted) of 5,200km.

[DaveReidUK]

Two VDA An-124s due at Leipzig tomorrow (and one in Paris a couple of days ago), so definitely no ban on them operating in European airspace.

[chevvron]

You must have missed the bowser Chevvron, The Volga-Dnepr Group quotes range at max payload as 4,500km. Wiki gives it a maximum range (payload not noted) of 5,200km.
Doesn't work I'm afraid.
This was in the days before TAG. Farnborough Business Aviation (FBA) operated the FBO from a small enclave south side with DERA/MOD operating north side.
FBA had a single 5000l bowser and limited underground tankage, about 12,000l I think, just sufficient to service their normal bizjets. This wouldn't be sufficient to supply 3 aircraft like AN124s.
DERA wouldn't have been able to help; they were only keeping minimum amount of AVTUR for their own needs as they were about to move to Boscombe Down.
Even a couple of years later when FBA had got a bigger bowser and DERA flying had gone, they were asked to re-fuel a visting C5 Galaxy (transporting POTUS helicopters) and after emptying their bowser twice said that was all they could do.

[DaveReidUK]

You must have missed the bowser Chevvron, The Volga-Dnepr Group quotes range at max payload as 4,500km. Wiki gives it a maximum range (payload not noted) of 5,200km.

It's probably just about doable. The Range Rovers were reportedly bound for the Trans Siberian Rally, which actually starts in Moscow.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Russia-Air-Force/Antonov-An-124-100M-Ruslan/758578

[Asturias56]

Pity they didn't build more of them TBH - they're a very useful aircraft when you need them for something outsize -especially if you're thinking of somewhere a bit out of the way................

[TCU]

It's probably just about doable. The Range Rovers were reportedly bound for the Trans Siberian Rally, which actually starts in Moscow.

Agree DRUK, that makes more sense than Siberia

[caiman27]

Sure

But out of the 50 remaining airframes I guess the only one you might see anymore are the 7 operated by Antonov. Volga-Dnepr can not operate in the European airspace anymore and I don't expect the Russian airforce to do much cargo moving in the UK. Just trying to say that this will very likely be a rarer sighting.

A quick check shows that Volga-Dnepr's RA82043 was in Marseille on 28 June, RA82044 flew to Paris on 2 July and 79 flew to Leipzig on 29 June.

The Maximus Air Cargo one is still very active also.

[The AvgasDinosaur]

No there is not any UK based AN-124 to my knowledge, they come to the UK quite frequently the first one I saw was in the 90's.
Air Foyle are were agents for AN-124 and had one more or less permanent in UK on standby. Also late lamented Heavylift had their logo on a couple of AN-124s for a spell. The IL-76s that wore Heavylift colours were dedicated to Oil Spill support work and not available for commercial use.
I believe photos exist of Heavylift AN-124s
Hope it helps.
Be lucky
David

[GLIDER 90]

The AvgasDinosaur

Thanks for that, the first one I saw was in the 90's when I worked at East Midlands Airport a impressive aircraft to watch. Like someone said in an earlier post they are frequent visitors to EMA. one was at RAF Waddington the other week.

[TEEEJ]

AN-124 at RAF Waddington, 23rd June 2019.

yMOsk9czDmY

[atakacs]

Two VDA An-124s due at Leipzig tomorrow (and one in Paris a couple of days ago), so definitely no ban on them operating in European airspace.

What do you make to this (https://www.pprune.org/freight-dogs/622419-volga-dnepr-an124-s-prohibited-operations-order.html) ?

If the manufacturer recedes their type certificate I'm not quite sure how they can operate (but not a lawyer and certainly not here to start a political discussion)

[DaveReidUK]

What do you make to this (https://www.pprune.org/freight-dogs/622419-volga-dnepr-an124-s-prohibited-operations-order.html) ?

If the manufacturer recedes their type certificate I'm not quite sure how they can operate (but not a lawyer and certainly not here to start a political discussion)

Can't really add anything to the comments on that thread.

Clearly Ukraine has no jurisdiction over airspace or territory other than its own, so it's hardly in a position to "arrest" the aircraft or stop it operating in Europe or elsewhere (as we have seen).

Just part of the ongoing spat between Ukraine and Russia.

[washoutt]

Aircraft without a valid TC or CoA can be denied to enter a national airspace by that national aviation authority under the 1944 UN Chigaco Agreement Also, I don't think they will be insured by any insurance broker or company.

[Jhieminga]

As type certificate holders for the An-124, the Ukranian company can certainly stop the type from flying by withdrawing said certificate. But the fact that this is going through the courts implies that normal communication lines are not being used, and it may be more of a political action than an airworthiness related one. The type most likely is seen as a strategic asset by the Russian side, and it wouldn't surprise me to find out that they have taken steps to 'disconnect' the Russian operation from any Ukranian influence, as is implied by the original article linked to in the thread that atakacs referenced.

[DaveReidUK]

As type certificate holders for the An-124, the Ukranian company can certainly stop the type from flying by withdrawing said certificate.

Which would be rather a Pyrrhic victory as it would ground Ukrainian operator Antonov Airlines' aircraft as well. Presumably why they haven't done that.

[treadigraph]

VDA's RA-82044 heading NW across Essex at 26000 and climbing as I type...

[atakacs]

Well I guess the ultimate test will be how long the Russians will be able to keep the engines serviceable without Ukrainian support.
To be honest the whole thing is a bit crazy but what do I know...

[N707ZS]

The IL-76s that wore Heavylift colours were dedicated to Oil Spill support work and not available for commercial use.
Teesside Airport's one and only IL-76 was a Heavylift one with Nissan engines so they did do some cargo work.

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Teesside Airport's one and only IL-76 was a Heavylift one with Nissan engines so they did do some cargo work.
I was on good terms at one time with several Heavylift crew members, certainly at the beginning of the operation, they IL-76s were strictly call out for oil spill and crew training. The crews were accommodated in some very large caravans near Duxford. Mobile home sized beasts, but just how mobile I’m not sure.
perhaps later in the contract the CAA became more flexible? I honestly don’t know.
Hope it helps
Be lucky
David

[Double Hydco]

I was on good terms at one time with several Heavylift crew members, certainly at the beginning of the operation, they IL-76s were strictly call out for oil spill and crew training. The crews were accommodated in some very large caravans near Duxford. Mobile home sized beasts, but just how mobile I’m not sure.
perhaps later in the contract the CAA became more flexible? I honestly don’t know.


I worked in Heavylift Ops at the time the IL76 and An124's came on the scene. Certainly the IL76 (and Pelita Hercules) were on oil spill standby in the early days. Indeed, the IL76 crew complained about recency and we organised some training circuits at Stansted. I went along, but after two or three touch and go's the tower said the noise complaint phone line was ringing off the wall, and could we stop. After a while both the Herc and the IL76 were released to operate charters. We also had an AirStan IL76 we used.

The Herc crew were billeted at the Flint Cross Hotel near Duxford. The Russians lived in an old manor house near Bishops Stortford, plus some accommodation in Saffron Walden. I don't remember any crews living in caravans.

Also late lamented Heavylift had their logo on a couple of AN-124s for a spell. The IL-76s that wore Heavylift colours were dedicated to Oil Spill support work and not available for commercial use.
I believe photos exist of Heavylift AN-124s


Heavylift Volga Dnepr (it was a joint venture) had about eight AN214's on our ops board.

[atakacs]

Any more context about this picture?

[aloominumtoob]

:E Yes, well take the one in the middle!:ugh::E

[atakacs]

Not 100% but this looks like Leipzig (but on the passengers terminal side, not cargo). In any case don't know what the picture is supposed to depict (except for the probably rare confluence on 5 an124 at a given place)?

[Double Hydco]

Stansted....

[atakacs]

Thanks

Seems the post is gone

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Thanks

Seems the post is gone
That is somewhat of an amazing magic trick. I believe a magician on TV once disappeared a Lear Jet, but five AN-124s in one go. That’s astounding
😱👍👍👏🏻👏🏻👋👋
Be lucky
David

[Doctor Cruces]

Air Foyle are were agents for AN-124 and had one more or less permanent in UK on standby. Also late lamented Heavylift had their logo on a couple of AN-124s for a spell. The IL-76s that wore Heavylift colours were dedicated to Oil Spill support work and not available for commercial use.
I believe photos exist of Heavylift AN-124s
Hope it helps.
Be lucky
David

When I worked for them we used them as freighters too. Best aeroplane for carrying AOG engines around and all sorts of other things. They were hardly ever at base.

[dc9-32]

I flew on the Air Foyle IL76 on it's first ad-hoc charter, DUB to LTN but diverted to EMA due to fog. Great machine, great crews, great experience.

[atakacs]

Bit of a thread drift but you might be interested by this

Antonov plant tour (https://ukraine-kiev-tour.com/antonov-plant-tour.html)