Firefighters win landmark case over pensions.

[M1key]

:D

https://forcespensionsociety.org/news/firefighters-union-wins-landmark-pensions-case/

The Government has today been refused leave to appeal to the Supreme Court against the Court of Appeal’s judgement that the ‘transitional arrangements’ put in place for the Fire Fighters when their new 2015 Pension was introduced were unlawful.

[downsizer]

Whilst it is great news for them, it doesn't mean it will apply to us.

And even if it did, it would have to be paid for, what is going to be cut to fund it?

[Wander00]

There goes Hunt's £15bn

[Tashengurt]

Having been placed on a tapered transition to the new police pension scheme I'll be watching this with interest.

[air pig]

Having been placed on a tapered transition to the new police pension scheme I'll be watching this with interest.

NHS staff as well with the change from the '97 scheme.

[jayteeto]

My wife joined a group of police officers when this first started. They have been pursuing a private case for a long time. The long and short is that they have been on hold awaiting this appeal by the government. If you haven’t appealed, you won’t receive anything until you go to court. Not sure if it’s too late to join, but I suggest anyone with relatives in the police tell them to do something NOW. It won’t be an automatic right.
as for the armed forces, someone will have to challenge the government.
The current solicitor bill is under £1k per person, massively below the prediction of 4-5k

[Melchett01]

There goes Hunt's £15bn

Or b, they just scrap the transitional arrangements / grandfather rights for older personnel and move them on to the new scheme so everybody gets the same.

Whilst unpopular with a ‘relatively’ small number of personnel in the overall scheme of things, you just know that anything else will be spun as public sector workers boosting existing gold plated arrangements whilst the private sector gets screwed yet again as their taxes pay for the boost. I make no comment on the validity of those arguments, but merely suggest it would invariably put public sector pensions back into an unwelcome limelight at a time of financial uncertainty.

[Lima Juliet]

I’m better off on AFPS15 thanks :ok:

[Blackfriar]

Or b, they just scrap the transitional arrangements / grandfather rights for older personnel and move them on to the new scheme so everybody gets the same.

Whilst unpopular with a ‘relatively’ small number of personnel in the overall scheme of things, you just know that anything else will be spun as public sector workers boosting existing gold plated arrangements whilst the private sector gets screwed yet again as their taxes pay for the boost. I make no comment on the validity of those arguments, but merely suggest it would invariably put public sector pensions back into an unwelcome limelight at a time of financial uncertainty.

As you say, this just means that everybody will be forcibly transferred to the new scheme instead of only new entrants. Great victory there, ageism wins.
Or am I mis-reading the decision and everybody will have to stay on the old scheme? It's not clear.
I guess the decision had nothing to do with the fact that the Judges' pension scheme was included in the same judgement?

[M1key]

https://forcespensionsociety.org/news/public-sector-pension-ruling-and-the-armed-forces/

[just another jocky]

Sounds great, can someone explain to me what this all means please? :confused:

[Melchett01]

Sounds great, can someone explain to me what this all means please? :confused:

We’re screwed?

[just another jocky]

We’re screwed?


Thanks m8, big help. :ok:

Anyone else?

[VinRouge]

I’m better off on AFPS15 thanks :ok:

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x480/097deebf_d3b3_4b3f_b094_272004d1e063_d71b5d6c6382cbdd53b5608 35ea77c141501aa0b.jpeg

[FJ2ME]

Read the armed forces pension society link above and the through-linked preface to the forthcoming DIN. There are 2 important bits of this:

The Government respects the Court’s decision and has confirmed that it will remedy the difference in treatment across all main public service pension schemes, including all Armed Forces Pension Schemes. Any remedy must a) compensate for any previous discrimination, and b) remove discrimination in the future.
Service Personnel will not see any reduction to the pensions they have earned/built up to date, irrespective of the pension scheme they are in.

So, the way that people were administered into transitional arrangements wasn’t lawful and must be remedied, (ie grandfather rights) and no one can can have their pension reduced.

So I read that as the only possible remedy is to reinstate pre-afps15 arrangements for people who were not protected on grandfather rights. So if you were on AFPS75 you go back to that, and if on AFPS05. Presumably if you then wish to transfer onto 15 or indeed stay on it you may... it’s going to be messy and expensive.

[Lima Juliet]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x480/097deebf_d3b3_4b3f_b094_272004d1e063_d71b5d6c6382cbdd53b5608 35ea77c141501aa0b.jpeg


LOL!

Some people will be better off on AFPS15 than others. As ever it all comes down to personal circumstances. If the Career Averaging calculation of AFPS15 is used for re-joiners, FTRS or PTVR then they may well be better off than before.

As ever, it pays to work out your individual circumstances.

[downsizer]

Some people will be better off on AFPS15 than others. As ever it all comes down to personal circumstances. If the Career Averaging calculation of AFPS15 is used for re-joiners, FTRS or PTVR then they may well be better off than before.
As ever, it pays to work out your individual circumstances.

Got to be a small minority of people better of on 15 than 75.

[Training Risky]

Got to be a small minority of people better of on 15 than 75.

On 1 April 2015 I was forced onto AFPS 15 for the last few months of my service. When I left on my engagement expiry date later in 2015 (PC 16/38 point) I was told that I would receive an immediate AFPS 75 pension for the period up to 1/4/15, then I would have a (very small) preserved AFPS 15 pension drawable at state pension age (68 now but could rise to 70-75??)

The effect I felt in my pocket was a 2% reduction in my immediate pension payments.

Does this ruling mean that I can have the full AFPS 75 pension now and forever??!!

(Due to Pensions legislation I was even offered another 3.5 years service to allow me to earn 4 years on AFPS 15 so I would qualify for an EDP in 2019, which I politely declined...) :)