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atakacs
25th Jun 2019, 09:15
Hello
I have tried to google this surprisingly to no avail so I guess this would be the place to ask.
I am looking for information about an 80's (?) project of a supersonic private aircraft. I'm sure that 2 or 3 prototypes were built and flown (with at least one cashing with an in-flight structural failure).

Any pointer most welcome.

Nige321
25th Jun 2019, 09:39
Viper Jet...??




Viper Jet??

treadigraph
25th Jun 2019, 10:57
The Bede BD-10J/Peregrine Falcon I think is what you are referring to. Five built, three crashed...

ShyTorque
25th Jun 2019, 11:46
There was also the British design known as the CMC Leopard.

atakacs
25th Jun 2019, 13:29
The Bede BD-10J/Peregrine Falcon I think is what you are referring to. Five built, three crashed...
Yes that was the one I had in mind - thanks
Didn't realise it never matched the announced specs...

Allan Lupton
25th Jun 2019, 18:55
There was also the British design known as the CMC Leopard.

Ian Chichester-Miles did not design it for supersonic flight so not this topic.

dook
25th Jun 2019, 20:19
I'm not surprised that three out of five Bedes crashed.

atakacs
26th Jun 2019, 10:05
So doing more research it turns out is that supersonic was never reached from any of those designs?

treadigraph
28th Jun 2019, 08:38
BD-10 seemed to have enough problems subsonic...

The CMC Leopard is one of those might have beens. I recall watching the prototype getting airborne in a rather protracted manner at Farnborough on the original engines, with the projected engines might have been quite something. But then I guess all the mini bizjets now proliferating are cabin class. But then there was the PiperJet...

atakacs
28th Jun 2019, 14:08
I don't think either of those were meant to be anywhere near supersonic.

Blossy
28th Jun 2019, 19:05
I'd have to agree with atakacs. With all the concern about Concordes sonic boom and the obvious lack of range of these private types supersonic flight was clearly out of the question.

DaveReidUK
28th Jun 2019, 20:12
One of the pilots at Down East International used to commute to work in an F-104, not sure if that counts. :O

dook
28th Jun 2019, 21:10
Blossy,

The intensity of a shock compression wave depends upon the size of the aeroplane.

What sort of so-called "boom" does a high velocity bullet produce ?

I have no idea of the number of times I have flown myself in excess of M1.

treadigraph
28th Jun 2019, 21:40
As already said the CMC Leopard was not a supersonic design but I thought, mistakenly perhaps, the BD-10J was.

DRUK, F-104 commute? Darryl Greenamyer? Or my gliding instructor who test flew WGAF F-104s as a day job...:p

DaveReidUK
29th Jun 2019, 06:35
DRUK, F-104 commute? Darryl Greenamyer? Or my gliding instructor who test flew WGAF F-104s as a day job...:p

None of the above.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/558x258/down_east_international_29d4353ec7eff781c9e66a53aad11a39c9cd 2a4f.jpg

Cowboy McCloskey, second from the right, next to the eponymous Ace McCool.

treadigraph
29th Jun 2019, 09:57
Ah, not familiar with them! :) I see they are forming the vanguard of the queue!

tdracer
29th Jun 2019, 20:23
Slight thread drift, but many predict the next supersonic passenger aircraft will in fact be a biz jet - catering to the 1% (or more precisely, the 0.01%) for whom cost is no object. Not only is a biz jet not subject to the same financial limitations as a commercial airliner, the regulations are a bit more relaxed in several areas that would be relevant for a supersonic aircraft.
My educated guess is that we'll see a supersonic biz jet in service in the next ten years or so.

treadigraph
29th Jun 2019, 20:30
Just having a look, BD-10J was intended to reach Mach 1.4.

Blossy
29th Jun 2019, 21:42
dook: What sort of so-called "boom" does a high velocity bullet produce ?

A very high and loud crack. Not in the least pleasant.

I have also been supersonic a few times. Total non-event inside.

Pontius Navigator
30th Jun 2019, 19:06
he CMC Leopard is one of those might have beens. I recall watching the prototype getting airborne in a rather protracted manner at Farnborough on the original engines, with the projected engines might have been quite something. But then I guess all the mini bizjets now proliferating are cabin class. But then there was the PiperJet...
Saw one in the shed at Bedford. Amazed at the small size of the engine intakes. The wing and fuselage skin was like a high performance car and the front seat beautifully contoured leather. Back seats I think were similar but crammed with instruments. No idea why they didn't persevere with it, probably because the really rich wanted even more comfort .

bill fly
1st Jul 2019, 10:41
Saw one in the shed at Bedford. Amazed at the small size of the engine intakes. The wing and fuselage skin was like a high performance car and the front seat beautifully contoured leather. Back seats I think were similar but crammed with instruments. No idea why they didn't persevere with it, probably because the really rich wanted even more comfort .

Pontius - maybe because any pilot in his right mind would have preferred a seat from Messrs Martin Baker or Folland.

dook
2nd Jul 2019, 11:14
I'll drink to that, having used one.

Nige321
5th Sep 2019, 07:31
And now you can buy one...


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1480x2000/screenshot_2019_09_05_at_08_29_02_0cd7b156a263eb53535ad9992f 7531410dd56b44.jpg

chevvron
5th Sep 2019, 11:36
dook: What sort of so-called "boom" does a high velocity bullet produce ?

A very high and loud crack. Not in the least pleasant.

I have also been supersonic a few times. Total non-event inside.
Never been supersonic :* but I have operated in the butts on Century range at Bisley and when a round is fired from 600yards away, you hear the shockwave of it passing you before you hear the crack of it being fired.
All these films you see where someone is hit by a bullet from long range with or without silencer and all you hear is the bullet striking them are a load of bollocks; the bullet has to be supersonic so you would hear the shockwave as it hits the target.

chevvron
5th Sep 2019, 11:38
Saw one in the shed at Bedford. Amazed at the small size of the engine intakes. The wing and fuselage skin was like a high performance car and the front seat beautifully contoured leather. Back seats I think were similar but crammed with instruments. No idea why they didn't persevere with it, probably because the really rich wanted even more comfort .
Lack of money?

Asturias56
5th Sep 2019, 11:40
Too many voters lose cp the number of rich who win...............

Spooky 2
5th Sep 2019, 15:50
Anything less than this is imply unacceptable/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2URfePePOvI

I have one back seat ride in this aircraft back in 2005 and still have a funny looking grin on my face. The airport shown in the video is San Jose, CA, south of SFO.

Pontius Navigator
5th Sep 2019, 18:25
All these films you see where someone is hit by a bullet . . . all you hear is the bullet striking . . . ; the bullet has to be supersonic[/ quote]

Yes

[quote]so you would hear the shockwave as it hits the target.

No. As the bullet is super sonic it follows that of would impact before the sonic wave.

The correct sequence would be a soft squelchy splat, the crack as the sound wave from the bullet catches up followed by the bang of it being fired.

Watching an A10 as quite spooky. We could see the eruption from the shell strike, the ripple banks as the impact noise arrived followed by the winding whoosh of the cannon firing. As we were off the firing line we didn't hear the flight noise.

treadigraph
5th Sep 2019, 23:27
Spooky, is there much restriction to flying that F-5B supersonic? Can they do so over land? Assume it's and Dutch or Norwegian aircraft.

India Four Two
6th Sep 2019, 07:21
Ah, not familiar with them! https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/smile.gif I see they are forming the vanguard of the queue!

treadders,

Not familiar with Ace McCool and his merry band that operated the Vickers "Mudguard"?

Then read on. :)
https://www.pprune.org/canada/544316-remember-vanguard.html#post8581003

treadigraph
6th Sep 2019, 08:57
Blimey. Second hand Ace McCool book on Amazon for 154!

Not a supersonic private jet but I did see a Lear 35 leaving Biggin this morning, first I've seen in a long long time. Not quite as sexy as the 20 series Lears - the 23 looked great! - but it was nice to see one with tip tanks and unencumbered by aerodynamic refinements...

Spooky 2
6th Sep 2019, 15:06
Spooky, is there much restriction to flying that F-5B supersonic? Can they do so over land? Assume it's and Dutch or Norwegian aircraft.

There were only a couple offshore areas where that was allowed and in my case we always remain subsonic. To much hassle to get the required permission so I was told. The aircraft was originally from Norway.