Possible close encounter at LEMG 21/6/19

[Trav a la]

Yesterday I witnessed what seemed to be a close encounter between an arriving Ryanair 737 and a departing Lufthansa 320.
The arriving 737 briefly stopped while exiting the runway, a departing 320 then got quite close as it lifted off.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/243x502/d08a4ee5_fe3f_4bc1_8bca_d009618a1f73_9482f7154d25916bd509203 dead9555d142c48be.jpeg
Not sure if this looks worse than it actually was.

[Hotel Tango]

Having witnessed movements from that spot recently, I can tell you that it is not uncommon and that the B737 is actually well clear of the active. So, the answer is that it was all perfectly safe.

The 737 is on E2 at the HP of taxiway A and well clear of the runway. Check it out on Google Earth.

And btw, this is not Rumours & News material. ;)

[Trav a la]

Thanks HT,

I’m also very familiar with that area as I live down here for part of the year.

The photo is from a video taken on my iPhone which I cannot post due to the wrong type of format for the site.

What that shows, and you cannot see from the still, is that the aircraft is not at the normal holding point. After the 320 has passed overhead the 737 them moves forward in a straight line for a short distance before turning left onto the taxiway.

The follow me vehicle seemed to be waiting at the previous exit point, which the 737 may have missed.

From what I could see with the naked eye, while the 737 was stopped, the tail was very close, if not slightly over, the runway threshold.

It wasn’t quite normal.

Had the 320 not been airborne very early I believe the two aircraft would have been very close.

[what next]

Had the 320 not been airborne very early I believe the two aircraft would have been very close.

Why do you think that the Lufthansa crew would have started their takeoff roll with the tail of another aircraft still sticking into the runway? No way!

[Chesty Morgan]

Why do you think that the Lufthansa crew would have started their takeoff roll with the tail of another aircraft still sticking into the runway? No way!
It happens. Quite often in Malaga too.

[Hotel Tango]

Chesty Morgan:
Well, I have my doubts that LUFTHANSA of all operators would have started their roll if the 737 had not fully cleared!

Trav a la:
Well, having triangulated (or whatever term fits) you're above photo with Google Earth, I'm personally quite satisfied that, if that was their position when first stopped (as mentioned), separation was more than adequate. The rest of your story has really no bearing on the situation.

[Chesty Morgan]

Chesty Morgan:
Well, I have my doubts that LUFTHANSA of all operators would have started their roll if the 737 had not fully cleared!


Why? What makes them any better than anyone else?

[Hotel Tango]

Why? What makes them any better than anyone else?

You know perfectly well what I was implying. Had the same event been reported with say a BA aircraft involved I would have said the same. I won't say anymore than that!

[pattern_is_full]

I tend to agree that the RyanAir was clear of the runway on E2 (a l-o-n-g offramp).

However, as a general point, the argument that "No pilot would ever do such and such! No Way!" is a very poor one.

There are too many holes in the ground and/or piles of crumpled aluminum around the world as evidence that pilots (even professional ones) have done all kinds of stupid things.

[Hotel Tango]

However, as a general point, the argument that "No pilot would ever do such and such! No Way!" is a very poor one.

I can't find that quote by anyone anywhere above!

If you're referring to me, you are very much misquoting me. I stated that I had my doubts. That's very different to what you are suggesting I said.

Anyway, whatever, it was a non event, case closed.

[Nil further]

LEMG is an ATC disaster area . In my view critical deficient and should be blacklisted by ICAO.

fly by night controllers, nil command of English , everything pushed and rushed way beyond safe.

ever seen the carnage caused by a go around there ?
once witnessed a fuel spill there with real concern by commander about a fire risk . ATC unable to understand, guy got no fire services for about 20 minutes , shocking.

[Pistonprop]

They can try and rush as much as they want, I ain't rolling until the runway is clear! Seems that what I agree was a non-event has kicked off the usual Spanish ATC bashers!

[bill fly]

Why? What makes them any better than anyone else?

Such as KLM and Panam...

[Sobelena]

Such as KLM and Panam...

Ah yes, let's go back 42 years (1977) to make a point about today's airmen! :ugh:

Question for Nil further: Have you recently operated into AGP? Some of your ranting seems to date back to a while ago (i.e. a past generation of controllers). Things are changing.

[Nil further]

Several times a week,every week for the past twenty years.

its no better or worse than it’s ever been.

countless times I’ve seen people Cleared to land /TO with the runway occupied.

ever since they put that new tower in the radios have been rubbish, strength 3 at best , add that to the limited command of aviation English on display and the “coast is clear” mentality it’s a mess . Anyone who operates there regularly knows this.

[EcamSurprise]

Anyone who operates there regularly knows this.


Yup.

Ah but we don’t work for Lufthansa so what do we know?

[Pistonprop]

In the USA you get cleared to land when you're still number 3 or even 4 on approach.

[bill fly]

Ah yes, let's go back 42 years (1977) to make a point about today's airmen! :ugh:
.

In case you didn’t get the irony, that comment was in response to banter about various airlines.

But some things don’t lose significance with time.
Even around Benelux.

[Nil further]

As you do in CDG amongst others but this ain’t the USA & it ain’t CDG.

its a grade 1 cluster and I’m astonished that there hasn’t been a major incident .

operating regularly to pan European, North African & CIS airfields . AGP is a shocker. Truly woeful and want more they don’t give a damm . Safety reports are ignored , they simply can’t be bothered .

Was anyone else there. The Saturday morning a few years ago when a BA CPT demanded the ATC watch manager be arrested by the Policia “for endangering aircraft” ? He was correct but perhaps a little naive thinking the ground controller would act on his request.