Bit of a concern if even partly true. F35 Lemons.

[zanthrus]

http://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/host-of-new-faults-revealed-in-australias-billiondollar-fighter-jets/news-story/1c8156144f92d4f61d14703d47f8e58b

[TBM-Legend]

The mixed messages are confused by three different models of the F-35. The most complex is the VSTOL B model followed by the CTOL C model and the A model which the RAAF has.

Lots of the issues have nothing to do with it as an aircraft but rather the maintenance/logistics computerised tail etc etc.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

It will not be long before the RAAF put an F35 nose to nose with a classic. Then we find if we bought a pup.

[LeadSled]

It will not be long before the RAAF put an F35 nose to nose with a classic. Then we find if we bought a pup.
Oz,

We already have the example of the RAAF FA-18 (various models) not doing so well in exercises in SE Asia up against various current Russian built types--- the real world performance of the F 35 will be "interesting".
The RAF problems include the "stealth" coatings blistering off, (the lemon is peeling??) and not because of the "blistering" speed of an F35.

Tootle pip!!

[Buster Hyman]

Then we find if we bought a pup.
A bit harsh on Sopwith there ol' chap! :p

[junior.VH-LFA]

It will not be long before the RAAF put an F35 nose to nose with a classic. Then we find if we bought a pup.

It’s been done.

Not to mention the 20:1 success ratio it’s attained at Red Flag.

The JSF bashing is getting exhausting and more and more ill informed as time goes on. The aircraft is here, it’s flying in Australia, most days of the week and loved by its pilots.

Move on.

[junior.VH-LFA]

Oz,

We already have the example of the RAAF FA-18 (various models) not doing so well in exercises in SE Asia up against various current Russian built types--- the real world performance of the F 35 will be "interesting".
The RAF problems include the "stealth" coatings blistering off, (the lemon is peeling??) and not because of the "blistering" speed of an F35.

Tootle pip!!

Exercises in SEA? Which one? What operator? Any sources?

Or just ill informed conjecture?

[Horatio Leafblower]

I seem to remember hearing what a heap of crap the F111 was .... right up until it was time to retire it, at which point it was the greatest aircraft ever built and should be retained at any cost.

Ho hum, same old same old...

[cattletruck]

I think in a conventional sense the F35 is quite a sorry thing, it even looks fugly, but the whole point of it is that it's unconventional.

[FOI]

It’s been done.

Not to mention the 20:1 success ratio it’s attained at Red Flag.

The JSF bashing is getting exhausting and more and more ill informed as time goes on. The aircraft is here, it’s flying in Australia, most days of the week and loved by its pilots.

Move on.

Who cares if it’s “loved by its Pilots?” I’m sure poling one around is a hoot...
I want to know if as a taxpayer, our little country’s resources are being wasted on flash toys whilst our schools, hospitals and emergency services suffer...

[OZBUSDRIVER]

LFA...you do know what I mean by nose to nose, don't you?

[Sunfish]

Give LFA a break. There is a saying in intelligence:” those that talk don’t know and those that know don’t talk”.

The BEST reputation for the F35, as the F111 and the Collins class submarine is always “a useless bit of junk”. I would’nt expect anything different.

[pilotchute]

Wait a second. The Collins Class is a piece of junk. I have first hand experience.

[India Four Two]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1750x1250/15ce6708_cf81_45d7_a05e_5ff361b75a53_5af9f3b8c91e29e3f35bb86 fdd2f4f39ca6123a3.jpeg
I think in a conventional sense the F35 is quite a sorry thing, it even looks fugly
​​​​​​​
cattletruck, just be grateful that the X-32 didn’t win!

[machtuk]

Who cares if it’s “loved by its Pilots?” I’m sure poling one around is a hoot...
I want to know if as a taxpayer, our little country’s resources are being wasted on flash toys whilst our schools, hospitals and emergency services suffer...


Sadly whenever I see such expensive hardware this is exactly what I think, be nice if we didn't need any of them, fugly or otherwise......crazy world we live in -:(

[Lookleft]

Defense expenditure has always been a large part of any countries budget no matter which era we live in. From my limited knowledge of the F35 it is its capability is in integrating all battlefield information and using that to maintain air superiority that is its strength.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Honestly, I had the pleasure of working with a former knucklehead. My colleague, Fibro, flew Canberras in VietNam , what a story there till Westmoreland discovered they had no anti missle protection. came back and got posted to mirages where he regailed me with what really happens in a dogfight...first to turn wins... He ended up on the pigs and flew the second flight into Amberley. Great guy, he must have thought I didnt believe him because he brought in his logbooks. No ****! Peter was the real deal.

[harrryw]

Many years and many millions of dollars can turn a pig into a superstar.

[LeadSled]

Defense expenditure has always been a large part of any countries budget no matter which era we live in. From my limited knowledge of the F35 it is its capability is in integrating all battlefield information and using that to maintain air superiority that is its strength.
Lookleft,

Except for the small problem of "the enemy" is incorporating/has incorporated similar electronics in an airframe with a much greater performance envelope.
Indeed, there have been suggestions/allegations that the most advanced artificial intelligence software is NOT found on the eastern shore of the Pacific.

Tootle pip!!

PS: Thinx --- how many PRC China made components are in the electronics of the F35??

[Lookleft]

Its not just the hardware and software, compare the Me 262 against the Mustang. It also comes down to Command and Control, morale and the "corporate culture" of the military. History is littered with the military ambitions of totalitarian regimes thinking that the decadent and "soft" Western cultures were finished. It doesn't matter how many Chinese made components are in the F35, its how it is integrated that is important. When the PRC develops technology that hasn't been stolen I will be concerned. I have spoken with a person who has written Defense White papers and he thinks the F35 is a great machine. I think he would know what he is talking about.

[Sunfish]

LL; the PRC develops technology that hasn't been stolen I will be concerned. I have spoken with a person who has written Defense White papers and he thinks the F35 is a great machine. I think he would know what he is talking about.]

There are two problems here:

- the first is the assumption that China is technically backward and the only reason for it’s rise is that it “steals technology from the West.” From personal experience this is not only untrue but it leads to a dangerous underestimating of China’s capabilities. It is however a very common and comforting assumption to make.

- the second is that air wars are going to be fought using an American paradigm, and I am including in that all the drone swarming, unmanned aircraft stuff that people are probably playing with behind the scenes. I’m sure the F35 is more than capable by these standards, but what if the Chinese and Russians don’t decide to play that way?

For example I’m sure all this datalink stuff and battlespace domination stuff looks real cool in a powerpoint presentation, but what if the slightest emf radiation draws an accurate hypersonic anti radiation missile?

We we have grown our armed forces to fight little brown people with small arms and not much technology. Facing China or Russia is a very different kettle of fish. The F35 could easily turn out to be the equivalent of the Boulton Paul Defiant, then where are we?

[Lookleft]

The Chinese are still trying to put the C919 into service. The F 35 could also turn out to be like the Typhoon, troubled at the start but devastating when it mattered. According to the head of International Relations at LaTrobe Uni Russia is a gad fly and is not relevant to the Pacific theater of Operations. You have your sources in PM&C, I have my sources who back the F-35.

[Buster15]

The Chinese are still trying to put the C919 into service. The F 35 could also turn out to be like the Typhoon, troubled at the start but devastating when it mattered. According to the head of International Relations at LaTrobe Uni Russia is a gad fly and is not relevant to the Pacific theater of Operations. You have your sources in PM&C, I have my sources who back the F-35.

Is Typhoon devastating?
Based upon its current role with the RAF, itis simply replicating the Tornado role.

[Guptar]

It would be interesting to compare the flight performance of the F18 Super Hornet and the F35 following an engine failure.................tongue in cheek.

What's wrong with this airframe. F15x and F15EX Strike Eagle.

Why can't they integrate the advanced avionics in the proven F15 airframe. It has performance, range and most importantly can stay airborne afte an engine failure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaK_uSeCJgg

F (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaK_uSeCJgg)

[Stickshift3000]

Why can't they integrate the advanced avionics in the proven F15 airframe. It has performance, range and most importantly can stay airborne afte an engine failure.

They can. However the stealth attributes range from very hard to impossible to retrofit.

[Lookleft]

Is Typhoon devastating?
Based upon its current role with the RAF, itis simply replicating the Tornado role.
I was referring to the Hawker Typhoon,as the example given was the BP Defiant.

[Andy_RR]

- the first is the assumption that China is technically backward and the only reason for it’s rise is that it “steals technology from the West.” From personal experience this is not only untrue but it leads to a dangerous underestimating of China’s capabilities. It is however a very common and comforting assumption to make.


How is it comforting to assume that all your s hit has been stolen...?

[aroa]

While the 35 is 'all singing, all dancing' electronically and all the info fantastic..if the busy brain can take it all in. Having studied the Russian stuff a bit my concerns are...apart from the horrendous cost...
1. An argument for the F18 was that 2 engines are better that one, see Mirage...especially out over the briny.. now we are back to one. Que? One has fallen in the water off Japan...reason ?? Been found yet ?
2 Range. Way out from Oz and the tanker for return fuel isnt there anymore...then what ??
3 Payload and super cruise issues are others.
Recent Defence article in The Oz stated RAAF Drivers were getting their straffing endorsements.!
Seems strange for us not to have a dedicated tank buster eg Thunderbolt 2 specifically designed for same and risk the 35 low down where a soldier with a pocket rocket could deal with it.
Wont be much good if Oz does not have a strategic fuel stockpile either. NO fuel. No fly.

[josephfeatherweight]

Wont be much good if Oz does not have a strategic fuel stockpile either. NO fuel. No fly.
Absolutely - most people in Oz have no idea how deficient we are in this department and thus how reliant we are on the shipping lanes from Singapore!

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

Seems strange for us not to have a dedicated tank buster eg Thunderbolt 2 specifically designed for same and risk the 35 low down

Not to take anything away from the A-10, but armour can also be dealt with by PGMs from medium or high altitude. The biggest tank-killer of GW1 was actually the F-111F/GBU-12 combination, not the the A-10/GAU-8 that everyone assumes.

[Sunfish]

How is it comforting to assume that all your s hit has been stolen...?

‘Because then you don’t have to confront the possibility that the Chinese might be technically smarter than you are.

To put that another way; what if they are brainy nerds, not stupid thieves?

One of the reasons the Germans lost WWII was that they were convinced of their own technical superiority in fields like encryption.

[Seabreeze]

Absolutely - most people in Oz have no idea how deficient we are in this department and thus how reliant we are on the shipping lanes from Singapore!

And no Australian company owns a tanker, so we can easily be squeezed where it hurts. We need another country to sell us fuel, and another country to rent us a ship. This is security madness. Seabreeze

[On Track]

What Seabreeze said. It's nothing less than scandalous. Since 9/11 federal governments have been stealing our civil liberties but they've done nothing to make the country more secure.

[gerry111]

One of the reasons the Germans lost WWII was that they were convinced of their own technical superiority in fields like encryption.
The Germans were pretty good with encryption, although the folks at Bletchley Park were better at decryption.