RNZAF C-130J

[carlos755]

It seems that the politicians in WLG have chosen the C-130J to replace the old H models, possibly the stretched version.
Anyone know any more? I thought the J was only slightly faster than the H and still too small?

[rattman]

They were originally had options to buy some in the Australian order in the late 90's, they cancelled that

Its probably a good decision, their current ones are pretty much EOL, they have most flight hours of any flying C130's in the world atm. Its not a big a step up in training and parts for them and gives service interoperability with the Australian C130J's

The airframes are from 1965 and 1968, there is also going to be review into australia's J's to see if they will be continued in service after 2025. They might even wind up buying those if AUS decides to a sell them

[fergineer]

I remember many moons ago that I wrote a paper saying that the C130 was not up to using the new landrovers as they had to be dismantled to get them past the wheel wells. It was not only the landrovers but other kit also did not fit without being taken apart. I am sure that the NZ helos will not fit either.

[tartare]

J makes sense.
Familiar platform - C-17 too big, A400M and Embraer are unknowns.
The whole spending program is quite far sighted - more sat time and drones further out.

[rattman]

J makes sense.
Familiar platform - C-17 too big, A400M and Embraer are unknowns.
The whole spending program is quite far sighted - more sat time and drones further out.

C-17 aren't an option because they have ceased production

The options they were looking at was C-130J, embrarer (boeing brazil) 390 and Kawasaki C-2, they went straight to no contest aquisition of 130J.

I still think the made the decision because they want/expect to take australia's old 130J's


I remember many moons ago that I wrote a paper saying that the C130 was not up to using the new landrovers as they had to be dismantled to get them past the wheel wells. It was not only the landrovers but other kit also did not fit without being taken apart. I am sure that the NZ helos will not fit either.

I kinda find that hard to believe, been the back a few times and dont remember seeing 'wheel archs' consider you can put aslavs (non turreted and deflated tires as hight is an issue), humvees and hawki's cant see how a land rover would not fit

[ORAC]

Notification press release.

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/super-hercules-selected-preferred-option

[Herod]

I wonder if Shorts still have the jigs for the Belfast? :ok:

[KiloB]

Seems strange to read that a Land Rover doesn’t fit in a -130. I can remember a Land Rover (90) fitting in a C47!

[ORAC]

I wonder if any of the lightweight Landrovers are still about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover_1/2_ton_Lightweight

[ancientaviator62]

Carried many Landrovers both for airlanding and airdrop and cannot remember any problems with them fitting into our C130K. I thought the internal dimensions of the J were the same as the 'standard' Hercules.

[ancientaviator62]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/699x1024/hercules_shoreham_landie_ce9579d961e7c573ade4a5be37f2d3df3ab 6b4dc.jpg
Her's one that did fit !

[josephfeatherweight]

Awesome seeing the surfboards on the roof - is that an RAF Herc?

[tartare]

Very handy too that the J can tootle all the way down to Willy's field, have a squiz at the weather, and then head back to Christchurch if it's sh1t.
Focuses the attention on the K when they announce "...we're now committed to landing in four hours time."

[ancientaviator62]

ght,
yes one of the RAF C130K models. Pic taken at the Shoreham Airshow . Because of the parking arrangements the Herc had to be positioned on the Friday before the show and could not leave until the Monday if memory serves, when all the surrounding exhibits had been moved. I had not been retired long so knew the 30 Sqn crew who allowed me to take my very young grandson (now an easyjet pilot) on to the flightdeck. He was amused to see that the overnight rain had done the usual trick of collecting in the co pilots nav bag.

[Lyneham Lad]

Article today on Flight Global. (https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/wellington-taps-c-130j-as-preferred-type-for-airlif-458824/)

Wellington has selected the Lockheed Martin C-130J tactical transport as the preferred candidate to replace its five C-130H aircraft.

It will seek pricing information on the aircraft via the US government’s Foreign Military Sales mechanism, says a defence ministry statement. Replacing the C-130Hs with a new type is “the highest priority project” for the government’s Defence Capability Plan in 2019.

“The current Hercules have served us well since the 1960s, but they have reached the end of the road, and suitable and proven replacement aircraft will need to be sourced,” says defence minister Ron Mark.

“The current fleet is increasing in cost to maintain, and is taking longer to put through maintenance. After considering the range of military air transport aircraft carefully, the Super Hercules has been selected as it offers the necessary range and payload capability as well as fully meeting NZDF’s requirements.”

The statement notes that over 400 CH-130Js have been delivered, and the type is used by key New Zealand allies such as the UnitedStates, United Kingdom, Australia, and Canada.

Cirium’s Fleets Analyzer indicates that the average age of the Royal New Zealand Air Force’s C-130H fleet is 52.8 years, with an age range of 50.5 to 54.6 years.

The other types pitched for the requirement were the Airbus Defence & Space A400M and Embraer KC-390.

The statement stresses that a final decision has not been made, and the number of aircraft to be acquired has yet to be determined. The Defence Capability plan, however, estimates a total cost of over NZ$1 billion.

“Tactical air transport capability is one of the highest value assets available to New Zealand, offering huge utility to the community and nation, enabling movement of personnel and cargo around the country, the South Pacific, down to Antarctica and all around the globe,” says Mark.

“We need a proven performer, and this aircraft is tried and tested. We cannot take risks with what is one of our most critical military capabilities.”

[ACW342]

Herod - Mo more Shorts, Only Bombardier, and the factory is up for sale. if no sale then 4500 high quality aircraft manufacturing jobs go, and not forgetting the supply chain.
A342

[SRAM]

I've got one, 05-KD-27, still going strong.

[Tashengurt]

I wonder if any of the lightweight Landrovers are still about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover_1/2_ton_Lightweight
I think I ripped the doors off them all doing 'chute recovery at the Eastern end at Leuchars.
Certainly seemed to go tbrough a few.

[Herod]

Herod - Mo more Shorts, Only Bombardier, and the factory is up for sale. if no sale then 4500 high quality aircraft manufacturing jobs go, and not forgetting the supply chain.

Yes, I know, and it's a crying shame. I was merely being flippant.

[reader8]

I don't get it. 'Interoperability' with Oz C-130J? In the transport sense I fail to see the advantage. Surely 'just as limited as Oz C-130J' would sum it up better, but that's hardly the underpinning of a robust procurement strategy.

​​​​​I'm aware that Oz provide NZ with some load design assistance, but this hardly seems a reason to operate the same aging aircraft when the opportunity to modernise was available. Personally, I think not looking more seriously at KC-390 is an opportunity wasted given the capability leap that KC-390 would provide.

[Asturias56]

KC-390 looks good but is unproven

The RNZAF has 50 years experience on Hercs - why throw it away? They are everywhere and you have a high degree of compatibility with other operators in the region.

Plus they last for the said 50 years...

Sexy no - useful and low risk 5 Stars......

[josephfeatherweight]

The RNZAF has 50 years experience on Hercs - why throw it away? They are everywhere and you have a high degree of compatibility with other operators in the region.
Well said, Asturias56 - I concur. As you rightly say, not the sexiest piece of kit, but a utilitarian "off-the-shelf" no brainer with a high degree of familiarity and commonality for the users.

[HK144]

reader8

'Just as limited as Oz C-130J'

Care to elaborate on your thoughts?

[reader8]

The RNZAF has 50 years experience on Hercs - why throw it away?

Generally the wing box structure makes the decision on your behalf.

[reader8]

reader8

'Just as limited as Oz C-130J'

Care to elaborate on your thoughts?
​​​​​​
All aircrafts have their limits. I'm not saying C-130 is bad for NZ, but 'interoperability' is one way to spin 'no significant increase (or decrease) in capabilities'.

Remember, Embraer specifically designed the KC-390 as a modern replacement for the C-130-J, it's designed from the ground up to compete and, on paper, it does the job admirably and appears to have performed well during trials to date.

I'd point to range, payload, maintainability, airworthiness management and floor loading as key areas where KC-390 had been very smartly designed.

It's understandable why NZ made the decision to take C-130-J, KC-390 would have accompanying acquisition risks, training requirements and organisational change that C-130 plainly does not, but I suspect the 390 would have been a more enduring solution.

I'd also throw the proline flight deck configuration and the way that 40 Sqn manages pilots into the pot as providing some potential advantages for dual qualifications on future types.
​

[Davef68]

Plus they last for the said 50 years...



Unless they are RAF Cmk5s..... :-)

[Asturias56]

YEs - odd - anything built/modified by the Brits seems to have a shorter life span than similar kit in use everywhere else........ mus t be because it sits around rusting in your wet climate? Or maybe no-one buys any spares??

[Davef68]

YEs - odd - anything built/modified by the Brits seems to have a shorter life span than similar kit in use everywhere else........ mus t be because it sits around rusting in your wet climate? Or maybe no-one buys any spares??

We also buy small fleets that then get heavily used - I beleive the RAF A400M and C17 fleets have the highest hour airframes, although that may be out of date info

[ORAC]

https://www.defensenews.com/2020/06/05/new-zealand-military-buys-5-lockheed-hercules-planes-for-1-billion/

New Zealand military buys 5 Lockheed Hercules planes for $1 billion

WELLINGTON, New Zealand — New Zealand’s military said Friday it will buy five Super Hercules transport planes from Lockheed Martin for $1 billion.

The planes will replace the military's existing fleet of Hercules, all of which are more than 50 years old and have been involved in a series of embarrassing breakdowns over recent years.

Defence Minister Ron Mark (https://www.defensenews.com/outlook/2019/12/02/new-zealands-defense-minister-shaping-the-future-of-the-defence-estate/) said the new planes will be used for operations in New Zealand, the South Pacific and Antarctica.

“Generations of New Zealanders have grown up and grown old with the Hercules, and they know these aircraft are an essential first line of response," Mark said in a statement.

He said the new planes will be able to carry a bigger payload as well as travel farther and faster than the current fleet.

Three of the nation's current C-130 Hercules planes date back to 1965 and the other two to 1969. They have been upgraded over the years, but frequent breakdowns have hampered some high-profile missions. At one point last year, the entire fleet was temporarily grounded.

New Zealand will take delivery of the first of the new C-130J-30 aircraft in 2024 with the full fleet operating by 2025. The price tag of 1.5 billion New Zealand dollars (nearly U.S. $1 billion) includes a flight simulator and supporting infrastructure.

[NutLoose]

We also buy small fleets that then get heavily used - I beleive the RAF A400M and C17 fleets have the highest hour airframes, although that may be out of date info

C17 are doing under 1000 hrs per frame annually these days. I would hate to think their usage when the sandpit was in full swing.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/827297/Military_flying_hours_by_fleet_FY2018-19.pdf


additionally scroll down to wa84

https://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201415/ldhansrd/text/141022w0001.htm




..

[fedex727]

It wasn't Land Rovers that gave us problems, just the NZLAVs. They definitely needed a good run up and plenty of Vaseline...:O

[Herod]

It's been said many times before: "The only thing to replace an old Hercules is a new Hercules"

[Asturias56]

I guess they've been around so long the define the mission - everyone has based all their plans and tactics around them (eg a Brown Bess Musket) forever it needs something really revolutionary (a Winchester) to get folk to change or even consider change.......