Guy Martin D Day Landing [Archive]

Flying_Anorak

2nd Jun 2019, 21:25

I see that Guy Martin has made a programme about D Day to be shown next Sunday which includes some flying with 47 Sqn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u8vs8imNwo

Was very interesting, but they took the long way from BZN to Abingdon!

BEagle

2nd Jun 2019, 22:18

It was indeed a good programme. Putting himself through training with the Paras wasn't an easy school for Guy!

That French jumpmaster was someone you hope would be on your side in any conflict.

Krystal n chips

3rd Jun 2019, 06:56

It was a very good programme, but there again, this is usually the case as he's about as far removed from the "I'm a celeb so the programme's all about me " school of presenters as it's possible to get. He does get actively involved and not just as a token gesture

Shame we didn't see a bit more about the Dak restoration, which isn't a criticism I hasten to add.

Green Flash

3rd Jun 2019, 07:50

Martins Merlin

Chugalug2

3rd Jun 2019, 08:08

I admit to having had strong reservations about this programme. We are so used to such productions being a vehicle for the presenter/lead participant's self esteem and professional exposure. Not so here. He is self effacing and modest. He realises that the point of the programme is to reveal the technical details of how you go about invading a well defended enemy coast, in this case from the air.

We were constantly aware that arriving on the DZ is only the start of the challenge, rather than its culmination. It was in short a proper tribute to those gallant young men who started the liberation of Europe proper, 75 years ago. Some appeared in the programme, remembering as clear as yesterday their drills and procedures. Young as ever in mind, if not in body. This was their story, not Guy Martin's, and he would be the first to say so. Great programme!

RedhillPhil

3rd Jun 2019, 08:15

I only got to see the first hour as my luscious lady friend insisted on turning over for "Gentleman Jack". I shall catch the final bit on catchup. One thing that intrigued me.......the Para instructor with a beard. I know about the Pioneer Corps and beards but Paras?
As anything with Guy - really good. He's a top bloke with cojones of titanium steel.

BigDotStu

3rd Jun 2019, 08:29

A very interesting program, and less artificial drama than some of his other programmes (not a comment on Guy, more the editors of those programs) which definitely makes this one of his better ones.

For the real deal, how about Harry Read - this week he will recreate his D-Day jump aged 95. Much respect.
https://www.channel4.com/news/the-95-year-old-parachuter-reliving-d-day-75-years-on

And coverage of his practice jump last year:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-dorset-45551505/d-day-veteran-harry-read-94-skydives-for-first-time-since-ww2

Tankertrashnav

3rd Jun 2019, 09:43

I know about the Pioneer Corps and beards but Paras?

Not quite correct. A pioneer sergeant is an appointment within infantry regiments and the foot guards. Those holding the appointment are permitted to wear a beard. As far as I am aware this had nothing to do with the Pioneer Corps, which in fact no longer exists and is part of the Royal Logistics Corps. Perhaps the chap you saw was a pioneer sergeant in the Paras? Other appointments which carry the same privilege are drum major, pipe major and goat major (do the Paras have a regimental goat?)

Or he may just have had a medical chit to be excused shaving!

622

3rd Jun 2019, 09:47

I assumed he was probably ex services....but to keep it in context and for the general public viewing he was called by his ex rank?

Good program though, and credit to Guy Martin...he just gets on with it! :D

ShyTorque

3rd Jun 2019, 10:10

I really enjoyed this program. I grew up around folk like GM - a real salt of the earth bloke. I thought it especially brave of him to go through with it, not least because he's had a few serious accidents in his past and something might easily have gone snap!

The interviews with the ex servicemen (and the flight nurse) were very telling - more from what they obviously held back from saying than the statements they actually made. Let's hope that no-one ever has to go through the horrors of that sort of thing ever again.

BigDotStu

3rd Jun 2019, 10:36

Other appointments which carry the same privilege are drum major, pipe major and goat major (do the Paras have a regimental goat?)

Or he may just have had a medical chit to be excused shaving!

Also permitted for SF?

Tankertrashnav

3rd Jun 2019, 23:19

Probably. I also knew a Nimrod pilot who had a beard you could hide a badger in. Medical reason in his case.

Wander00

4th Jun 2019, 09:24

Anyone know if there will be a repeat. We had power cut

spekesoftly

4th Jun 2019, 09:34

Anyone know if there will be a repeat. We had power cut

Yes, it's repeated tonight on 4seven* at 21:00 BST.

(*Freeview Channel 47, Freesat Channel 127, Sky Channel 137, Virgin Channel 143)

Arfur Dent

6th Jun 2019, 22:31

Guy Martin is obviously brave and self effacing. As an ex fighter pilot I see a man who is basically fearless (but clever) and who will accept a challenge if he deems it reasonable.
He was replicating a parachute jump made by his Grandad and he was a credit to the memory of that man.
Wonderful programme.
Guy - please do NOT ride the TT any more. Keep entertaining us with your attentions to history.

pulse1

7th Jun 2019, 08:32

ancientaviator62

7th Jun 2019, 11:48

We were still experimenting with motorbike airdrop when I was at the trials unit in the mid 1970s. Some drops were more successful than others !https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x751/hercules_motorbike_6d750958c169e9007b4b2bdfb06c771560be7086. jpg

jimjim1

7th Jun 2019, 12:48

Anyone know if there will be a repeat. We had power cut

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/guy-martins-d-day-landing/on-demand/68995-001
For three and a half weeks more.

ShyTorque

7th Jun 2019, 16:21

In the mid 50's, my father gave me an old motorbike, hoping that I would learn to do it up. It was a Royal Enfield 125cc 2 stroke. I learned form Guy Martin's excellent programme that this was the type of motorbike that was dropped with the paras to give them secure communications. I wish I had known that at the time

They were known as the Royal Enfield "Flying Flea".

Ancientaviator,

If those bikes were 2 stroke Bombardiers, dropping them with a parachute was a very good thing to do with them. Horrible things to ride. I had the throttle stick open on one of them on Salisbury Plain - the damned thing nearly did for me when I hit ruts caused by a tank track while I tried to stop it running away with me!

pulse1

7th Jun 2019, 17:48

I had the throttle stick open on one of them on Salisbury Plain

A very cheap and nasty throttle mechanism which RE sadly continued onto my next bike which was the Royal Enfield Clipper 250 cc 4 stroke.

jindabyne

7th Jun 2019, 19:39

When I read the trailers for the programme, I thought that it might be a tad irreverent piece. Far from it. As others have said, a wonderfully unique and well produced reflection of events. Well done Guy and all the others involved.

Been Accounting

7th Jun 2019, 19:47

... and I bet he did walk back around the airfield perimeter! Every step!

MightyGem

7th Jun 2019, 21:28

Just watched it. Excellent programme. Loved the "RAF" glider pilots, resplendent in their Glider Pilot Regiment ties. :hmm:

ancientaviator62

8th Jun 2019, 08:46

ShyTorque,
yes and we also dropped Husqvarna trail bikes as I recall. Along with some odd looking Citroen vehicle which was not keen on landing on the DZ. Not even the intrepid Guy Martin would have wanted to ride some of the bikes we dropped. I seem to recall that the army were not impressed with the Citroen as it was not four wheeled drive. All a long time ago and memory is not what it was. My log book for the time only says 'motorbikes/vehicles ' and does not specify the make . Wish I had been more specific about lots of the entries.

ancientaviator62

8th Jun 2019, 10:32

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x753/hercules_small_vehicle_roll_over_dc751a423dcb1c030afb40613d0 1d67ffb101bb3.jpg
Found another pic which I think is the Citroen I mentioned above. Another job for Guy !

Green Flash

8th Jun 2019, 14:30

Apologies for the rather large thread drift but everything you need to know about military motorcycles is here https://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/military-motorcycles/ (https://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/military-motorcycles/)

vimhawkraf

8th Jun 2019, 14:30

I haven't seen the programme yet (hope to be able to do so soon). I understand that the Empire training scheme churned out a surplus of (RAF) pilots toward the end of the war, many of whom were sitting around waiting for a squadron when ..... Arnhem happened and the army suddenly found itself very short of glider pilots. Many of these pilots awaiting appointment then suddenly found themselves attached to the Glider Pilot Regiment and ended up on Operation Varsity (airborne operation supporting the crossing of the Rhine).

Cornish Jack

8th Jun 2019, 17:29

Many thanks, jimjim1, for the link. Missed the original and just watched on that link. Remarkably well done and G M, as usual, enthusiastic, gritty realism. Points against? - that awful, awful, dirgy-voiced commentator :yuk:
Not much mentioned was that the '45 guys had no reserve 'chutes - tends to concentrate the mind well! We were similarly non-equipped when I did my jump from the WOTG balloon. NEVER again! :eek:
The glider crews possibly had it worse - bigger targets and fragile machines. Had the pleasure of working with an ex-glider pilot at Boscombe Down, Maj, later Col K M - a nicer, true gentleman would be difficukt to meet.
A generation apart! :ok::ok::ok::D

ExAscoteer

8th Jun 2019, 18:55

I understand that the Empire training scheme churned out a surplus of (RAF) pilots toward the end of the war, many of whom were sitting around waiting for a squadron when ..... Arnhem happened and the army suddenly found itself very short of glider pilots. Many of these pilots awaiting appointment then suddenly found themselves attached to the Glider Pilot Regiment and ended up on Operation Varsity (airborne operation supporting the crossing of the Rhine).

It wasn't just the Empire Training Scheme but the American BFTS, Arnold, and Towers schemes.

My late Father trained under the BFTS scheme in Miami, Oklahoma. Upon return to UK he was sent to the Aircrew Reception Centre at Harrogate where he was told he would become a Glider Pilot (despite having recommendations for fighters). He took a Horsa across the Rhine aged 20.

What most people don't realise is that 2/3rds of the pilots on Op VARSITY were RAF. Indeed, this is reflected in the casualty figures.

VP8

11th Jun 2019, 11:29

1066

11th Jun 2019, 13:44

What was the drop zone used for the motorbike that Guy drove up and down the runway?
I may be wrong but I don't think it was Keevil or Hullavington.
AA62 must know!

1066

Arclite01

11th Jun 2019, 14:00

1066 I was wondering the same thing.

Not Keevil, Not WOTG, not Lyneham, Not Hullavington so was it Fairford, Merryfield or Little Ris ?

Arc

ShyTorque

11th Jun 2019, 20:04

A very cheap and nasty throttle mechanism which RE sadly continued onto my next bike which was the Royal Enfield Clipper 250 cc 4 stroke.

The Bombardier bikes I referred to came into service in the late 1970s - I'm not so old that I used to ride a Flying Flea!

Rev I. Tin

11th Jun 2019, 21:00

What was the drop zone used for the motorbike that Guy drove up and down the runway?
I may be wrong but I don't think it was Keevil or Hullavington.
AA62 must know!

1066

I recall Abingdon was mentioned on the program.

ancientaviator62

12th Jun 2019, 06:48

VP8,
that certainly looks like the ones. But I also seem to remember dropping ones without a cab too. My pics of them have gone 'walkies'.
I thought the Guy Martin DZ was Abingdon. It looked vaguely familiar from when I was there with JATE before we moved to Brize Norton. We only dropped ULLA/free drop on the airfield but of course PTS had been there and used Weston on the Green for the training drops including the balloon which I found far more of a fright than the a/c jump.

ancientaviator62

12th Jun 2019, 07:50

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x661/hercules_ulla_abingdon_bc74cc89abf2ad14661a5485b676306c6106e 972.jpg
Not very good pic shows a JATE ULLA drop at Abingdon

1066

12th Jun 2019, 08:45

Many thanks to AA62 et al for the Abingdon answer. Not a drop zone I used! Did do the 4 jump course at PTS there in 66 or 67! I can remember the sound of the breaking ties, before the canopy deployed, on my first balloon jump and the call of, "well done sir", from the PJI above. First aircraft jump was a Beverley, nice flat side door, perfect exit and ride down the slipstream with my feet bobbing up and down in front of me just visible over the reserve. Second aircraft jump was an Argosy. Not so good, Rounded fuselage made it far more difficult to make a stable driving exit so lots of twists, just like Guy. Never thought then that I would end up not just dropping at WoG but would be training others to do so!
Severe respect to Guy and all the paras before and after him that his drop was honouring
I was post JATFOR but when I think of the effort that went into a 15 ship exercise battalion drop, one can really admire the organisation and committment of those involved that went into all the big drops of WW2.

1066

vimhawkraf

12th Jun 2019, 10:15

Yes Mr Aviator, agree that the balloon jump was far more frightening than the aircraft jumps! In the aircraft you might be in the middle of a stick and just following everyone else out the door, it's much harder to grasp what's going on. In the balloon of course you get winched up from the ground, it's really quiet, and it's really quite close to the ground! They don't use that anymore, I think the first jump is from a light aircraft. I got much more used to the balloon as I volunteered to stay on after my course in order to qualify a couple of APJIs (Army Parachute Jump Instructor) who needed to despatch a certain number of people to qualify, so I did quite a few balloon jumps in a couple of days.

Cornish Jack

12th Jun 2019, 14:34

The balloon jump was, indeed, a bit alarming!! We didn't have reserves when we were inveigled into having a go. To avoid the flailing arms which were likely, we were required to grasp the appropriate trouser leg with one hand and grab that wrist with the other. - (from memory, right leg for a port exit and left for starboard.) With reserves. I understand, the arms are held on top of the reserve. Any way, we made our descents wearing our flying suits , (NEVER again!) - 2 weeks later there were still the unmistakable imprints of a hand grip on the leg of mine!! To be fair, the adrenaline 'high' and the exhilaration of the short period following 'chute' opening were unique rewards!

ExAscoteer

12th Jun 2019, 17:25

YIn the balloon of course you get winched up from the ground, it's really quiet, and it's really quite close to the ground! They don't use that anymore, I think the first jump is from a light aircraft.

The balloon unit at Hullavington was binned in late 1993.

bspatz

12th Jun 2019, 17:46

AA62 the JATE ULLA drop looks to me more like Hullavington than Abingdon?

Lyneham Lad

12th Jun 2019, 21:34

Just watched it on All4. As usual I had subtitles on and Abingdon was the drop zone mentioned. Overall I found the programme very well balanced (not too much Guy,but bravo him) and informative. Apart from anything else I was not aware that the gliders could be recycled via a C47 'Skyhook' arrangement - that really surprised me. Membury - the Membury just S of the M4's Membury Services?

ancientaviator62

13th Jun 2019, 07:00

bspatz,
you may be right but it is an old (faded illegible writing) slide and when I was with JATE I cannot find any entry in my log books of ULLA at Hullavington. Everything else but not ULLA. Can't think why would not not as we did ULLA (single) at the much more restrictive South Cerney.
Speaking of the slides it is very odd how some have survived virtually unscathed and others have deteriorated so much.
As for voluntarily doing more balloon jumps, huge respect. One was enough for me.

ancientaviator62

13th Jun 2019, 07:03

LL, the very same Membury .the airfield was bisected when the M4 was built. When the 'snatch' was being developed for use in the Falklands the WW2 snatch techniques were a starting point.

Trumpet trousers

13th Jun 2019, 07:46

AA62, it looks like S Cerney to me, but surprised to hear that ULLA was allowed there, quite restrictive as you say!
Hope you are well

pr00ne

13th Jun 2019, 09:15

AA62, it looks like S Cerney to me, but surprised to hear that ULLA was allowed there, quite restrictive as you say!
Hope you are well
It's Hullavington. Too many C Type hangars for South Cerney or Abingdon.

ancientaviator62

13th Jun 2019, 09:20

TT,
hello I am well thanks and I hope you are. Yes SC was 'interesting' for ULLA and MSP come to that. For ULLA (single platform only if I recall) the traffic on the Cirencester road road needed to be stopped by the local police. Much grumbling from them until we took the Traffic Super flying with us. In this day and age he would be diagnosed as suffering from PTSD such was his shock after the drop ! No moans from the police after that only requests for trips with us.
Single MSP there only and in marginal winds the disconnected 'chutes would often go walkabout. Happy days .

ancientaviator62

13th Jun 2019, 09:25

pr00ne,
you may well be right too. But I will retrieve my logbooks and check again. Hullavington was used as a DZ by Lyneham for all manner of drops. Very convenient for all when 16 HD and the parachute packers were there. All a very long time ago.

Trumpet trousers

13th Jun 2019, 09:29

It's Hullavington. Too many C Type hangars for South Cerney or Abingdon.
Google earth says S Cerney. Look at the comparitive size of the hangar immediately behind the tower.

Chugalug2

13th Jun 2019, 09:53

Google earth says S Cerney. Look at the comparitive size of the hangar immediately behind the tower.

Agreed, three full sized C-types at South Cerney per the pic. The satellite view of Hullavington seems to show a reduced sized hangar behind the Watch Office/Tower. Were there 'baby' C-types or is it something entirely different?

Upon further investigation (thanks Google!) it would seem that the centre C type is standard, the outer two extended versions found at MUs (which Hullavington was, amongst other functions).

http://www.controltowers.co.uk/H-K/Hullavington.htm

https://docplayer.net/266588-Guide-to-world-war-ii-hangars-03-type-c-hangars.html

ancientaviator62

13th Jun 2019, 10:14

Just had a quick look through my log books. Lots of SC ULLA drops (including a double !) but none at Hullavington. Mea culpa for the first wrong location but we did drop a lot on Abingdon . Still it generated a bit of interest from the readership. Many thanks.

longer ron

13th Jun 2019, 10:46

The Herc crew do say 'en route to Abingdon' for the drop and I have just taken a screen grab from All4 - definitely looks like 'F' Shed at Abingdon in the background.

You can just about make out 'Didcot Towers' in the background :)

https://i.imgur.com/TyOuVTZ.jpg

KelvinD

13th Jun 2019, 12:38

Speaking of the Horsa gliders, I still marvel at how the gliders assigned to take Pegasus Bridge managed to be so successful. I have visited the site and was absolutely amazed and still can't grasp how they landed spot on target. With a nasty stretch of canal close on one hand and some unforgiving countryside on the other, no nav aids or landing lights to assist and yet they managed to land within 50 yards of the bridge. Absolutely amazing!

Capt Kremmen

13th Jun 2019, 18:32

As no one else has mentioned it, am I the only one having trouble understanding Guy's somewhat strangulated vocal delivery ? Excellent presentation - with subtitles !

MightyGem

13th Jun 2019, 21:08

Tashengurt

13th Jun 2019, 22:01

I don't think I'd heard of the gliders being reused by that 'snatch' method either. Difficult to accomplish on any scale I'd imagine?
Anyone know if it was ever used operationally?

ancientaviator62

14th Jun 2019, 07:00

I think the glider snatch was used in a limited way IN ww2 using what else but the C47. May well be clips lurking in the usual video site. The RAF used the snatch in the Falklands but only for mail. The ultimate snatch has to be the Fulton RR system as used by the USAF..

pr00ne

14th Jun 2019, 09:36

Trumpet Trousers,

That picture is Hullavington, South Cerney only has two smaller C-Type hangars.

pr00ne

14th Jun 2019, 09:37

OR, if South Cerney DOES have three C-Type hangars, then it is South Cerney...

pr00ne

14th Jun 2019, 09:48

Aboutface!

Chugalug2 has raised dormant memories of the small hangar at Hullavington. It was indeed an Aircraft Repair Shed, basically a small C-Type (as the sim/gym at Brize), and it was used in latter days by the Balloon Squadron. That piccy is NOT of the smaller hangar so I concede that this is indeed South Cerney.

The later piccy is Abingdon as there is only one of that type of hangar in the UK.