Avion Express

[mags38]

Good Afternoon,
I am due to attend an assessment in Vilnius shortly for a 320 Captain position with Avion Express.Is there anyone who has recently attended who would be willing to provide information about whats involved,particularly with the sim assessment.Many Thanks.

[Nil further]

It’s 5000euro a month !
That’s all you need to know .
An outrage , you’d be insane to accept this

[RudderTrimZero]

No it's not. Check your facts.

[Luibar]

According to a guy that recently joined my present company, as a Captain, he averaged 8500 euros monthly at Avion Express.

[dirk85]

Unfortunately there are those very annoying things called taxes and social security, which I am sure your friend know all about.

[Luibar]

Yes, I believe he means gross. I don't know how he deal with taxes tough.

[FlightDetent]

It depends on what type of bogus employment is their agency running. Similar to Ryanair, there are some arrangements where you legally keep the deductions small. Individual countries' tax legislations differ.

[giord]

Are there bonds/training costs if you join type rated ?

[Transponder111]

Hi, how is the assessment process, any particular tests plus sim? cheers

[Augis1999]

Hi all,

​​Did anybody receive email from hr, regarding assestment? I have applied however didnt get any letter from them.

[SuperJet]

Hi all,
Yes I've been invited for assessment as First Officer in Vilnius in Feb. Anyone else as well? I'd really like to hear from those who did their assessments this month, especially what the sim involved?

Really appreciate any feedback.

Anyone else going in February too?

Good luck everyone.

[Maxymus3]

Just received an update:

Dear Pilots,

Hopefully this email finds you well.

This is to update you that your documents have already been submitted to our client airline Avion Express and we have accordingly requested to reserve your preferred screening date in March.

Due to a big amount of applicants, it may take some time to get the confirmation but we will keep you updated. In case your requested assessment date isn't available any more, we will get back to you with other options available.

Meanwhile, thank you for your patience and wishing you have a nice day ahead!

[Maxymus3]

In Vilnius for screening by avion express from tomorrow till saturday

[Maxymus3]

still waiting...Wednesday has been holiday there, hope to get a response within the day. It’s been a while now.

also heard of the salary cut. Being offered a job these days would be like a jackpot though, no matter the temporary payment cut. Obviously their aircrafts are mostly not operating thus pilots not working. If that lasts until their high season - they’re facing a lot of trouble.

[FlyHigher]

Not the best of times for ACMI business, unfortunately.

[Maxymus3]

Indeed... I hope at least we get a feedback

[tech47]

Dont expect anything from Avion Express, currently everything is frozen, even the pilot salaries, unpaid pilots still waiting for the february salary.
New term contracts: 220 euros per diem every day you are at the base plus 50 euros per flight hour for captains and 110 euros per diem for FOs and 25 euros per flight hour.
No social insurance and no benefits, an average of 15 days per month at the base with around 50 block hours, so guys do your maths.

[StasysViltrakis]

At Avion Express, crews (flight deck & cabin) are working as freelancers, with no benefits, nor taxes paid, nor mutual assistance from any State (especially from ex-soviet Lithuania).
Avion Express is an ACMI belonging to Avia Solution Group (ASG), meaning that profit is everything and that the real workers are just meaningless numbers.

Before the crisis, crew members received basic pay for a living and Block Hours pay was a well accepted extra.

When the pandemic first hit on March 2020, some crews where in different bases and were sent home with no future plan ahead, like many other companies did.

Some crews were stuck in bases such as in the Middle East and in Vilnius, when the company informed everyone via a simple email that the salary from the PREVIOUS month was going to be cut by a 30% from the gross total. Some crews lost valuable money that could have helped them and their families to have some more financial base to get through the pandemic. This 30% of cut was, moreover, taken from money earned from already flown hours and sacrificed lifetime spent in places like Vietnam (5 planes with pages-long MELs were based in Saigon at that time).

Not happy yet, the management took the decision to remove the basic pay from all crews (without unemployment assistance from any State). Everyone was put on a Pay per Block Hour (PBH) contract. Since there were almost no flights, zero was the amount of money to be expected each month from Avion. The only exemptions were crews based in the Middle East (the client did not accept that the crews stuck there were irregularly underpaid) and the ones stuck in Vilnius (those were receiving Per Diems).

Any of the attempts to restore the previous salaries by founding a Union between crew members was shut down by sending firing letters to the ones involved.

On May 2020, many chosen pilots and CCs (depending on their relationship with the management and absolutely not per meritocracy, seniority or performance) were fired. Some of them received a firing letter even while performing flights. Only around 60 pilots out of 220 "survived" the massacre.

At the beginning of Summer 2020, the management informed the crews that the Per Diems of the PBH contracts were going to have a further 40% cut from the gross Per Diems.

The Summer and Autumn went along with almost no flights due to the restrictions across Europe. The base in Middle East moved to Africa, those crews were rotated with others after being absent from home for more than 6 months. Many Crew members were infected by the Covid-19 virus and no special interest, compensation or help towards them was offered by the Company during their stay in African hospitals.

A new contract started on October 2020 with only a few planes, and in November a further Per Diems cut of 40% was announced. The reason behind that was that the Commercial Department had dealt such a low price with the client, that the crews had to pay out the difference. Profits for the shareholders were kept at the same percentage.

On December 2020 a new contract was announced, with charter flights and planes based in Vilnius starting from Spring 2021. The conditions proposed by the management were absolutely insane and unworthy but, since still in the middle of the Pandemic, several crews accepted that contract as well. The choice was between flying a bit and gaining recency, or sitting at home on a couch.

Crews moved to Vilnius without accommodation; taxes, and transport to/from work not supported by the company. Captains would be able to go even with the money earned and spent, first officers would have to put some of their own savings in order to work and survive.

The P2F scheme for Cadets was started again, so experienced first officers and normal captains (non-LTCs) would see their block hours shrink to the lowest bottom again.

Summer 2021 started, some crews were sent to new bases with the same low salary. The Company started hiring back some Pilots, based on old favours and friendships to training department and management people. The Company that during meetings was assuring "Seniority above-all selection criteria", started sending new guys (but old friends) to the more desired bases, where salaries were still untouched from prior the Pandemic.

In the bases the mood is low as the salaries, pilots started being even more frustrated and stressed due to lack of money to feed their families. Flight performances and flight safety is extremely jeopardised by keeping pilots depressed. Nobody cares anymore about SOPs (unless during Line Checks), since everyone is looking for a new Company. Many worthy people will leave and be replaced by others, who will be just keen to get back their recency in order to apply elsewhere.

Looks like training people and losing them at record speeds has become a new hobby of Avion Express. Training has a high cost, and it’s currently mostly wasted money.

The PBH contract pushes pilots and CCs to hide their health status, so many were found taking pills in order to fly with Covid-19 symptoms. The “calling sick rate” is the lowest ever recorded by the company.

Rotations are endless, sometimes longer than 2 months, spent in cheap hotels.

Winter is coming, so let's see how many more interesting decisions will be taken by the management within the next months.

Hope this post helped to understand the behaviour of Avion Express, and have an objective idea about if applying or not for a job there.

[macdo]

Not condoning it, but what did you expect?
And do think its going to get better, or even return to pre-covid T&C's.?
You'd be better off driving a truck.
The race to the bottom has stepped up a gear and found that the bottom was, in fact, just a passing level.

[FlightDetent]

Perhaps a thank you to the man for taking his time to share this in detail is due. He even managed to be reasonably polite about them, despite the content which is rather clear. That's no easy emotional task.

People will soon be able to choose where to apply, reviews such as this one are invaluable.

If we can afford it, which is the greatest dilemma, the question: What did you do to your crew during the pandemic should resonate the interview rooms.

[3MTA3]

Actually pre covid situation was already pretty poor: Monarch, Wow, XL, Thomas Cook, Small Planet, Aigle Azur, Primera - and I'm forgetting a couple- all went bankrupt before the pandemic.....

[REMAX11]

Are you guys aware of employment laws in Europe? I am quite surprise you don't even try to fight it...I did it in the past with smartXXXX as TRE: the country where I was based was very happy to provide a nice labour sentencing. Of course I don't work for those :mad: anymore, but I got almost every penny out of them.

[Webby737]

Don't forget SmartXXXX and Avion Express (not forgetting Bluebird & Magma) are all owned by the same group.
Collectively, they've not only screwed their pilots but their engineers as well.
I'm sure they will have figured out a loophole around the employment regulations.

[Wingmanion]

Does anybody of you have any information about the current "Psychometric and cognitive abilities skill test" and the "Technical Test" in the Avion Express selection process?

How do these tests look like and what will be asked?

[Klimax]

Does anybody of you have any information about the current "Psychometric and cognitive abilities skill test" and the "Technical Test" in the Avion Express selection process?

How do these tests look like and what will be asked?

Applying for a job with this outfit should be enough to revoke the rights of any license - it´s insane conditions on offer. If you apply = insane = should have medical certificate revoked.

Just kidding - the company sounds awesome and the CoS are really good. Wish I was 19 years old and had nothing else to do.

[GUMPS_CHECK]

Anyone has Informations about tests they do?

[FlexToga]

Anyone has Informations about tests they do?


Hi there, I just passed the Psychometric test, which is about your personality and few other things. Afterwards you will do a compass test which it gets more interesting, spatial orientation, multiple tasks short memory exercises etc. (It was quite interesting as I didn't expect it)

After that you will go for an airbus test of 45 questions, some of them quite tricky, made to confuse. But overall the exam was ok. You have 1hr to complete it.

[FlexToga]

Hi there guys, Anyone went through the online interview and simulator? What to expect?

Thanks for your sharing guys.

[obelix360]

FlexToga when did you applied and after how long they replied you? Cpt/Fo position?

I sent my application almost 2 months ago and still no news?

[sundial84]

Hi there, I just passed the Psychometric test, which is about your personality and few other things. Afterwards you will do a compass test which it gets more interesting, spatial orientation, multiple tasks short memory exercises etc. (It was quite interesting as I didn't expect it)

After that you will go for an airbus test of 45 questions, some of them quite tricky, made to confuse. But overall the exam was ok. You have 1hr to complete it.

FlexToga ...

more details about the first and second test please ...
anything to prepare ?

[tech47]

Stay away fellow pilots, dont believe their promises. They advertise permanent contracts and basic salary but is not true. They can terminate contracts at any time because in a paragraph of the contract the so called "FORCE MAJEURE" is implemented. They use pilots for the summer season and during the winter they revert to any pay scheme they want which is going to be PBH(per block hour) as usual. They will use you for the summer season and abandon you as they did to hundreds of pilots.

[cefey]

Stay away fellow pilots, dont believe their promises. They advertise permanent contracts and basic salary but is not true. They can terminate contracts at any time because in a paragraph of the contract the so called "FORCE MAJEURE" is implemented. They use pilots for the summer season and during the winter they revert to any pay scheme they want which is going to be PBH(per block hour) as usual. They will use you for the summer season and abandon you as they did to hundreds of pilots.
In the e-mail they stated that in winter they are likely to move to PBH, so they are (relatively) open about it.
One can always negotiate or reject a contract, no one is forcing one to sign.

But even flying just for the summer season, its a nice way to get 200-300hrs and recency - opening tons of other jobs to apply for.

[j4mi3]

Hi all,
Does anyone have any feedback on the psychometric tests/assessment? Which sites did people use to practice and prepare?

Many thanks

[Svatt]

Hi there, I just passed the Psychometric test, which is about your personality and few other things. Afterwards you will do a compass test which it gets more interesting, spatial orientation, multiple tasks short memory exercises etc. (It was quite interesting as I didn't expect it)

After that you will go for an airbus test of 45 questions, some of them quite tricky, made to confuse. But overall the exam was ok. You have 1hr to complete it.

It's 60 questions.

[Svatt]

Hi all,
Does anyone have any feedback on the psychometric tests/assessment? Which sites did people use to practice and prepare?

Many thanks

There's no site giving you the chance to prepare that test as far as i know because it's a wierd software they use customized putting together personality and math in different stages. That test for me did last 2h15m.
Then you have cognitive and spatial orientation skill test which last maybe 35/40'. On LPJ you may have a look but any test you do doesn't look like any avionexpress test. From january unfortunately they changed all this things.
Online interview and sim check not done yet so I don't know.

[Turbine200]

Anyone got a heads up on the online interview and sim.....please please...thank you :)

[LandSafe]

It's 60 questions.

Are these questions from the CBT of the A320 course or/and could you go in detail, how to prepare best ?
Tks

[LandSafe]

Anyone got a heads up on the online interview and sim.....please please...thank you :)
Have you done it so far and you could give some information. pls?

[LandSafe]

I forgot, sorry:

Is the technical test open book tests or not?

[hans brinker]

In the e-mail they stated that in winter they are likely to move to PBH, so they are (relatively) open about it.
One can always negotiate or reject a contract, no one is forcing one to sign.

But even flying just for the summer season, its a nice way to get 200-300hrs and recency - opening tons of other jobs to apply for.

And that is all part of the race to the bottom. What if all those other jobs realize we are willing to fly for nothing. Not saying I have a solution, but as an absolute minimum, we should absolutely, collectively never think, post, or say it is okay to fly paying passengers for substandard pay to get current. Companies like this don't deserve to survive. "We can afford to charge you less, because we pay our pilots less. We can do that because they aren't as qualified". Is that really what you mean??

[sugarpilot]

Hello everyone, has anyone recently completed the online cognitive test with avion Express? what is it all about besides personalities test exacly?
thanks for sharing

[Klimax]

And that is all part of the race to the bottom. What if all those other jobs realize we are willing to fly for nothing. Not saying I have a solution, but as an absolute minimum, we should absolutely, collectively never think, post, or say it is okay to fly paying passengers for substandard pay to get current. Companies like this don't deserve to survive. "We can afford to charge you less, because we pay our pilots less. We can do that because they aren't as qualified". Is that really what you mean??

No matter what he means to say, that is precisely what a bottom feeder company like that one does. Bar minimum on the qualification list.

[j4mi3]

And that is all part of the race to the bottom. What if all those other jobs realize we are willing to fly for nothing. Not saying I have a solution, but as an absolute minimum, we should absolutely, collectively never think, post, or say it is okay to fly paying passengers for substandard pay to get current. Companies like this don't deserve to survive. "We can afford to charge you less, because we pay our pilots less. We can do that because they aren't as qualified". Is that really what you mean??

So are you suggesting pilots who haven't flown for an extended amount of time should do nothing, and keep not flying? Absurdity. Any job is better than not being current. Only people who are short sighted would think otherwise. These companies who you deem as 'non bottom feeders', want people who have flown recently - so to have any chance of getting there, you need to start somewhere. End of story.

[B-737]

So are you suggesting pilots who haven't flown for an extended amount of time should do nothing, and keep not flying? Absurdity. Any job is better than not being current. Only people who are short sighted would think otherwise. These companies who you deem as 'non bottom feeders', want people who have flown recently - so to have any chance of getting there, you need to start somewhere. End of story.

You are totally right j4mi3. I have sent you a PM

[172_driver]

So are you suggesting pilots who haven't flown for an extended amount of time should do nothing, and keep not flying? Absurdity. Any job is better than not being current. Only people who are short sighted would think otherwise. These companies who you deem as 'non bottom feeders', want people who have flown recently - so to have any chance of getting there, you need to start somewhere. End of story.

Would it not be the opposite you think? Short sighted people would jump at it right away, without seeing the long term consequences?
In my neck of the woods it amazes me what pilots 5 years ago would consider completely unacceptable, only today walk over dead bodies to accept. All in the interest of getting ahead and getting back in the air. Sadly, this in a heavily unionized airline. I despair.

[Anivas]

Hello !

Just finished (...not ) the technical Test , you have to to be the fastest airbus test quiz pilot !!!
60 (yes sixty ...) in 20 minutes ! that's around 1 q every 20 sec !
Off course in the mail that you are going to receive you will be informed that you going to have .....2 hours , but not....

I complain with a mail , they terminate me after 5 min......

(it was a fail anyway ....)

[Vinny91]

At Avion Express, crews (flight deck & cabin) are working as freelancers, with no benefits, nor taxes paid, nor mutual assistance from any State (especially from ex-soviet Lithuania).
Avion Express is an ACMI belonging to Avia Solution Group (ASG), meaning that profit is everything and that the real workers are just meaningless numbers.

Before the crisis, crew members received basic pay for a living and Block Hours pay was a well accepted extra.

When the pandemic first hit on March 2020, some crews where in different bases and were sent home with no future plan ahead, like many other companies did.

Some crews were stuck in bases such as in the Middle East and in Vilnius, when the company informed everyone via a simple email that the salary from the PREVIOUS month was going to be cut by a 30% from the gross total. Some crews lost valuable money that could have helped them and their families to have some more financial base to get through the pandemic. This 30% of cut was, moreover, taken from money earned from already flown hours and sacrificed lifetime spent in places like Vietnam (5 planes with pages-long MELs were based in Saigon at that time).

Not happy yet, the management took the decision to remove the basic pay from all crews (without unemployment assistance from any State). Everyone was put on a Pay per Block Hour (PBH) contract. Since there were almost no flights, zero was the amount of money to be expected each month from Avion. The only exemptions were crews based in the Middle East (the client did not accept that the crews stuck there were irregularly underpaid) and the ones stuck in Vilnius (those were receiving Per Diems).

Any of the attempts to restore the previous salaries by founding a Union between crew members was shut down by sending firing letters to the ones involved.

On May 2020, many chosen pilots and CCs (depending on their relationship with the management and absolutely not per meritocracy, seniority or performance) were fired. Some of them received a firing letter even while performing flights. Only around 60 pilots out of 220 "survived" the massacre.

At the beginning of Summer 2020, the management informed the crews that the Per Diems of the PBH contracts were going to have a further 40% cut from the gross Per Diems.

The Summer and Autumn went along with almost no flights due to the restrictions across Europe. The base in Middle East moved to Africa, those crews were rotated with others after being absent from home for more than 6 months. Many Crew members were infected by the Covid-19 virus and no special interest, compensation or help towards them was offered by the Company during their stay in African hospitals.

A new contract started on October 2020 with only a few planes, and in November a further Per Diems cut of 40% was announced. The reason behind that was that the Commercial Department had dealt such a low price with the client, that the crews had to pay out the difference. Profits for the shareholders were kept at the same percentage.

On December 2020 a new contract was announced, with charter flights and planes based in Vilnius starting from Spring 2021. The conditions proposed by the management were absolutely insane and unworthy but, since still in the middle of the Pandemic, several crews accepted that contract as well. The choice was between flying a bit and gaining recency, or sitting at home on a couch.

Crews moved to Vilnius without accommodation; taxes, and transport to/from work not supported by the company. Captains would be able to go even with the money earned and spent, first officers would have to put some of their own savings in order to work and survive.

The P2F scheme for Cadets was started again, so experienced first officers and normal captains (non-LTCs) would see their block hours shrink to the lowest bottom again.

Summer 2021 started, some crews were sent to new bases with the same low salary. The Company started hiring back some Pilots, based on old favours and friendships to training department and management people. The Company that during meetings was assuring "Seniority above-all selection criteria", started sending new guys (but old friends) to the more desired bases, where salaries were still untouched from prior the Pandemic.

In the bases the mood is low as the salaries, pilots started being even more frustrated and stressed due to lack of money to feed their families. Flight performances and flight safety is extremely jeopardised by keeping pilots depressed. Nobody cares anymore about SOPs (unless during Line Checks), since everyone is looking for a new Company. Many worthy people will leave and be replaced by others, who will be just keen to get back their recency in order to apply elsewhere.

Looks like training people and losing them at record speeds has become a new hobby of Avion Express. Training has a high cost, and it’s currently mostly wasted money.

The PBH contract pushes pilots and CCs to hide their health status, so many were found taking pills in order to fly with Covid-19 symptoms. The “calling sick rate” is the lowest ever recorded by the company.

Rotations are endless, sometimes longer than 2 months, spent in cheap hotels.

Winter is coming, so let's see how many more interesting decisions will be taken by the management within the next months.

Hope this post helped to understand the behaviour of Avion Express, and have an objective idea about if applying or not for a job there.

Hello everyone!
I can see a lot of people are applying again for Avion Express after reading this feedback from StasysViltrakis.

I have a quick question:
Does anyone know if they are improving the Term and Conditions to be considered as an opportunity to start?

thank you

[propje]

Our bases for High Season 2022: Turkey (AYT), Germany (DUS, STR), Dominican Republic (SDQ), Lithuania (VNO), Jordan (AMM), more bases to be added.

The Compensation for High Season 2022 (80 BH/month may be expected during the high season):

Captains

Fixed monthly compensation: 3500 EUR
Block hour payment: 50 EUR

First Officers

Fixed monthly compensation: 2000 EUR
Block hour payment: 30/35 EUR (based on the experience on type)

Travel, transportation, and accommodation is covered by the company from the very first day of training. All the crew members are covered by the Travel Insurance, including medical expenses whenever on the operating base.

Roster

European region: 9 consecutive days off in the period of 1 month
Non-European region: 15 consecutive days off after 33 days of duty

[CaptainSea]

Hello !

Just finished (...not ) the technical Test , you have to to be the fastest airbus test quiz pilot !!!
60 (yes sixty ...) in 20 minutes ! that's around 1 q every 20 sec !
Off course in the mail that you are going to receive you will be informed that you going to have .....2 hours , but not....

I complain with a mail , they terminate me after 5 min......

(it was a fail anyway ....)


hello, good morning.
I Will do the Technical Test on 15th July, can you give me more information about what kind of questions I can expect ? Do you know if have some question bank for this test ? What is the best way to prepare myself?
king Regards

[turbine100]

Are a lot of people still leaving Avion?

[uberfly]

Are a lot of people still leaving Avion?

We are in the middle of the season and they are still desperately looking for pilots using all flight crew agencies available around Europe. So we can make a guess.

[CaptainSea]

We are in the middle of the season and they are still desperately looking for pilots using all flight crew agencies available around Europe. So we can make a guess.


I passed last week in the Technical test and they excluded me because of my psychometric test. I’m frustrated, I don’t know what to say…

[sekmeth]

Ah avion, the airline where crews in uniform get drunk in the lobby of the DUS Maritim hotel..

[WhatShortage]

Ah avion, the airline where crews in uniform get drunk in the lobby of the DUS Maritim hotel..
Smoking, drinking, pay peanuts you'll get...?

[WhatShortage]

Hello everyone!
I can see a lot of people are applying again for Avion Express after reading this feedback from StasysViltrakis.

I have a quick question:
Does anyone know if they are improving the Term and Conditions to be considered as an opportunity to start?

thank you
That sounds like the kind of guy willing to pay to fly, keep it up pal.

[Microturbo]

Really ! So they do not need pilots !

[asal0032]

Hi all, anyone been to a sim assessment of avion recently? some heads up fo what to expect would be appreciated. cheers

[glidestar]

Dual FMGC fault to basically make you hand fly a raw data ILS to go around.
Reposition, EFATO, return for single engine ILS

[UpandU]

An insider for everyone interested at this place
crew control managed by a lady covered from the top mangement who believes to own you and sometimes blackmail you together with her colleagues.
some very folkloristic and careerists pilots, except few good men,including a couple of scambags who are really characters and behave like super competent but ask yourself
why they are still there.Be careful of the spanish guy and his minions.
Stasys is correct by all means... some would never pass an easa medical anywhere else but their countries.
A very interesting and funny circus where you have to watch your back and ask yourself why they are always looking for pilots

[BlueOcean66]

Ended up doing the OPC with an Italian and Greek TRE. Although the Italian TRE was supposed to conduct the sim, the Greek guy completely took over the show. I was subjected to intimidation, humiliation, abuse and bullying throughout the course of the simulator. I was brutally destroyed. I’m normally a strong person but my mental health has suffered as a result of what I went through and Avion Express could not be bothered. CRM is a major issue here and needs addressing before a major incident occurs. I am currently submitting reports to various authorities over the conduct of the whole episode. My advice is to avoid this company like the plague.

[EC-KIY]

Any news about T&C of Avion Express for next winter? What about upgrades?

[giord]

Any news about T&C of Avion Express for next winter? What about upgrades?

Capt. 2500 basic + 50 eur/hour flown. All gross. Expect 30/40 hours in winter, I.e. 4500 gross/month. Add taxes and do the maths. There will be upgrades for sure as it is impossibile they will be able to find enough captains on the market with those conditions.

[reverse21]

Any non type rated cadet applied for this offer paying 800 bucks via a very well known ATO?

[Madp1lot]

Been a long time since I last preped for any assessment, but as it stands, it is now time to dress up that suit again and give it a go.
Does anyone have any information about the Pilot Assessment for TR Captains as of December 2022 onwards? Tech databank type, psycometrics and cognitive, as well as interview and simulator profile? Any info on these topics would be highly appreciated, if you'd care enough to brief a fellow Airman.
Thanks in advance, and happy landings.

[uberfly]

I would not worry much about it. Pass rate is 100%.

[Madp1lot]

That's not very helpful as a reply, is it?

[Clamis]

That's not very helpful as a reply, is it?
Don't worry Madp1lot, unfortunately, many of our colleagues are just like those employers they criticize... disrespectful !
Regarding the assessment:
1. online assessment AON. Train on pilotest.com (CUT-E) for free.
A320 system test (basic and fair questions)

2. Interview: 30 min with HR and a pilot. Typical HR questions Have you ever been involved.....
1 or 2 tech questions, as a discussion, very fair.

3. Simulator: I know about dual FMGC fail.
Eng fail, raw data ILS, Go around.

Good luck

Guys, we know these airlines for a long time now. As far as I know, nobody obliges anyone to sign a contract, so please, instead of complaining, just don't sign it.

Madp1lot, if this is the right place for you, then go for it and all the best👍

[reverse21]

I received the invitation for the online tests but I'm not really sure what software use for the technical ATPL theory part. I'm using fasttrack and pilotassesments.com Any help about the question bank used for this first part would be highly appreciated.

[reverse21]

Hi Claims! Do you know if the exercise of the RBI is like the one from politest.com or a bit easier?

[uberfly]

It is the reality. They hire almost every single pilot making the application. Giving you a suggestion I am helping you to save your time. If you have that much time to prepare for their assessment I would definitely take my time to apply other airlines which would offer your better conditions and fair treatment. So please stop the nonsense and try not to rationalize your decisions to apply to such companies unless you have specific reason.

[Madp1lot]

Don't worry Madp1lot, unfortunately, many of our colleagues are just like those employers they criticize... disrespectful !
Regarding the assessment:
1. online assessment AON. Train on pilotest.com (CUT-E) for free.
A320 system test (basic and fair questions)

2. Interview: 30 min with HR and a pilot. Typical HR questions Have you ever been involved.....
1 or 2 tech questions, as a discussion, very fair.

3. Simulator: I know about dual FMGC fail.
Eng fail, raw data ILS, Go around.

Good luck

Guys, we know these airlines for a long time now. As far as I know, nobody obliges anyone to sign a contract, so please, instead of complaining, just don't sign it.

Madp1lot, if this is the right place for you, then go for it and all the best👍

Thank you so much for your feedback. That gets me more on track with other info I got from colleagues.

As for being the right place.. one can only make omelets with eggs.. and right now I'm short on eggs. The opportunity showed itself and I have nothing to lose. Not a dream career, but in my case I see some potential there.
Thanks again for the help and the constructive feedback. :)

[Madp1lot]

It is the reality. They hire almost every single pilot making the application. Giving you a suggestion I am helping you to save your time. If you have that much time to prepare for their assessment I would definitely take my time to apply other airlines which would offer your better conditions and fair treatment. So please stop the nonsense and try not to rationalize your decisions to apply to such companies unless you have specific reason.

I really don't see any problem with what you're arguing mate. A Job is a Job. And some of us need more of a job once in a while, and every life and life experience is different from others. Don't frown upon something that is not yours to frown about in the first place. Do you work there? Are you unhappy there? If so, then resign and move on. If not, then I fail to see the purpose of your not constructive criticism.
You might be well sitted atm, but others maybe just need a way to get back on track and feed their families. Also, everyone is in a different position and has gone thru different things in life.
For me, atm, this outfit doesn't look that bad at all. Could be better, yes. But there's way worse out there.
Also, I'm applying to 4 different airlines atm, so don't think this is my only shot.
Difference is, I take all opportunities professionally and with respect. Interviews work both ways. If I won't be happy with the offer I have more options. But maybe, just maybe, this offer could be OK to me, right now, at this moment in my life.
That's my 5% contigency.
Happy landings.

[FlightDetent]

What you missed is that his first sentence was a condensed advice, and a very truthful good one.

If your licence was issued to a properly qualified pilot who actually can pass the skill test criteria, you are effectively on board after booking your interview.

Hope all goes well for you, many people enjoy the time with them.

[Madp1lot]

What you missed is that his first sentence was a condensed advice, and a very truthful good one.

If your licence was issued to a properly qualified pilot who actually can pass the skill test criteria, you are effectively on board after booking your interview.

Hope all goes well for you, many people enjoy the time with them.

Thanks. Me too. Do need to get back on track. Appreciate the words.

[glidestar]

the latest contract is 2250 euro per month for captain and 50 euro per block hour

[Madp1lot]

the latest contract is 2250 euro per month for captain and 50 euro per block hour

The latest contract is:
Cpt:
summer 5500+BH
winter 2800+BH
​​​BH=50

FO:
summer 2800+BH
winter 1600+BH
BH=35 (>1000H on type)
BH=30 (<1000H on type)

[FlightDetent]

Thanks. Assuming 70 blh on average month MAY-OCT that kicks

9k and 5250 invoiced
= approx 7k and 4k net

Imagine raising the price by 3 EUR / ticket, to be shared CP = 1.2 €, FO = 0.6€, CC = 4x 0,3 € with modest 20x sectors in a month.
+ 4300
+ 2100
+ 1000

Does much more than just take care of the tax, right? Clearly, the difference between meagre and acceptable crew wages is not a cost issue but decision-based.

For most countries they operate from that equals extra spending just the same as 1 pack of cigarettes + 1 McD combo meal. Over the full flying package holiday for the whole family of 4 combined! Overtemps the arteries, really.

[pilotnojob08]

Hi guys!

Anyone can help with Avion express Assessements?Airline assessment;

• Psychometric

• Cognitive

• Technical

• Interview

• FSTD

Where we can fine similiar tests. Anyone did already ?

NTR Pilot assessment

Thanks in Advance!

[WhatShortage]

Hi guys!

Anyone can help with Avion express Assessements?Airline assessment;

• Psychometric

• Cognitive

• Technical

• Interview

• FSTD

Where we can fine similiar tests. Anyone did already ?

NTR Pilot assessment

Thanks in Advance!
Cut-e or AON test, many examples on YouTube, very basic and as every other airline except lufthansa group ( won't get into that kind of astronaut assessment).
Technical if you're fresh from school should be fine, atpl in general. Normal interview about what you've done weaknesses strong.. Quite basic.

Everything is straightforward, if you're fine you'll get in. If you're below average odds are you won't pass.
They prefer either type rated with hours or no type, as they get the most profit out of those. Type with no hours = expensive training.

[reverse21]

Hi guys!

Anyone can help with Avion express Assessements?Airline assessment;

• Psychometric

• Cognitive

• Technical

• Interview

• FSTD

Where we can fine similiar tests. Anyone did already ?

NTR Pilot assessment

Thanks in Advance!

Hi pilotnojob08!

As stated by WhatShortage first email you will receive is a scandlearn link with the psychometric tests. I don't know if you applied for the are Lingus fist officer position, but the CUT -E I bought for that assessment was perfectly fine for the Avion Express test. I would highly recommend you to practice all the tests from pilotassesments.com except the tunnel and the multitasking with listening.

You will be told to follow the tests in order while in a teams session with an Avion Express manager with many other candidates. Of course they insist that the webcams must be on all the time. Once everybody is ready, mics muted and you will be told to start with the technical part. In my personal case was the ATPL theory which I studied with pilotassesments.com and fast-track atpl (the 500 need to know questions). More or less I would say is just enough. Time is given 40 mins for 60 questions I would say but can't remember well.

There are a ton of tests so, just breathe, take time and read carefully everything.

There are some comprehension tests including where you must read a text and ​select the correct option from those give. A personality test too, where you must chose if you agree or disagree with the statements give. They offer you to choose your native language. There are many maths exercises where 6 businesses were given with different benefits in different years and you must get the percentages, shares, etc

And pretty much that's all. After you pass this part, you will be given an email asking for a day that suits you for the interview with the company psychologist. Different type os questions will be asked regarding to your personality test, your CV, what you're actually doing, emergencies had and how you solved them, any problems with subjects, the worst part of the learning process, etc...

After the company psychologist, it arrives an email for the HR team interview.

After that it comes the SIM and if everything goes well, you're inn.

I hope to have helped you a bit with this process. I understand your point, there is no much information about it on the net. Don't hesitate to reply to the thread in case you need any more information.

I wish you the best of luck!!

[pilotnojob08]

Cut-e or AON test, many examples on YouTube, very basic and as every other airline except lufthansa group ( won't get into that kind of astronaut assessment).
Technical if you're fresh from school should be fine, atpl in general. Normal interview about what you've done weaknesses strong.. Quite basic.

Everything is straightforward, if you're fine you'll get in. If you're below average odds are you won't pass.
They prefer either type rated with hours or no type, as they get the most profit out of those. Type with no hours = expensive training.


Thank you I will have the assessments in 2 weeks for a NTR pilots with no experience and is my best shot to get a job.

I studied already Fast track atpl question I´m reading ACE to prepare for the interview.

Thank once again for the reply

[pilotnojob08]

Hi pilotnojob08!

As stated by WhatShortage first email you will receive is a scandlearn link with the psychometric tests. I don't know if you applied for the are Lingus fist officer position, but the CUT -E I bought for that assessment was perfectly fine for the Avion Express test. I would highly recommend you to practice all the tests from pilotassesments.com except the tunnel and the multitasking with listening.

You will be told to follow the tests in order while in a teams session with an Avion Express manager with many other candidates. Of course they insist that the webcams must be on all the time. Once everybody is ready, mics muted and you will be told to start with the technical part. In my personal case was the ATPL theory which I studied with pilotassesments.com and fast-track atpl (the 500 need to know questions). More or less I would say is just enough. Time is given 40 mins for 60 questions I would say but can't remember well.

There are a ton of tests so, just breathe, take time and read carefully everything.

There are some comprehension tests including where you must read a text and ​select the correct option from those give. A personality test too, where you must chose if you agree or disagree with the statements give. They offer you to choose your native language. There are many maths exercises where 6 businesses were given with different benefits in different years and you must get the percentages, shares, etc

And pretty much that's all. After you pass this part, you will be given an email asking for a day that suits you for the interview with the company psychologist. Different type os questions will be asked regarding to your personality test, your CV, what you're actually doing, emergencies had and how you solved them, any problems with subjects, the worst part of the learning process, etc...

After the company psychologist, it arrives an email for the HR team interview.

After that it comes the SIM and if everything goes well, you're inn.

I hope to have helped you a bit with this process. I understand your point, there is no much information about it on the net. Don't hesitate to reply to the thread in case you need any more information.

I wish you the best of luck!!

Thank you for your asnwer.
I didn´t do the assessments for Aero Lingus because I was close to entry in another company but in the last interview I didn´t make but I´m studying ATPL question for fast and track questions since november and reading the ACE.

1- I am quite prepare for that part and I will study for pilotassessments.com ( do you think Aer Lingus pilot assessment is the best one?)

2- Psychometric tests, the AerLingus is fine?

3- When you did your assessment?

4- So 1st i will do the psychometric tests and if i pass i will do the others?

I dont know if i can contact you in private so i can ask some doubts

Thank you in advance.

[JimLovell]

Hi pilotnojob08!

As stated by WhatShortage first email you will receive is a scandlearn link with the psychometric tests. I don't know if you applied for the are Lingus fist officer position, but the CUT -E I bought for that assessment was perfectly fine for the Avion Express test. I would highly recommend you to practice all the tests from pilotassesments.com except the tunnel and the multitasking with listening.

You will be told to follow the tests in order while in a teams session with an Avion Express manager with many other candidates. Of course they insist that the webcams must be on all the time. Once everybody is ready, mics muted and you will be told to start with the technical part. In my personal case was the ATPL theory which I studied with pilotassesments.com and fast-track atpl (the 500 need to know questions). More or less I would say is just enough. Time is given 40 mins for 60 questions I would say but can't remember well.

There are a ton of tests so, just breathe, take time and read carefully everything.

There are some comprehension tests including where you must read a text and ​select the correct option from those give. A personality test too, where you must chose if you agree or disagree with the statements give. They offer you to choose your native language. There are many maths exercises where 6 businesses were given with different benefits in different years and you must get the percentages, shares, etc

And pretty much that's all. After you pass this part, you will be given an email asking for a day that suits you for the interview with the company psychologist. Different type os questions will be asked regarding to your personality test, your CV, what you're actually doing, emergencies had and how you solved them, any problems with subjects, the worst part of the learning process, etc...

After the company psychologist, it arrives an email for the HR team interview.

After that it comes the SIM and if everything goes well, you're inn.

I hope to have helped you a bit with this process. I understand your point, there is no much information about it on the net. Don't hesitate to reply to the thread in case you need any more information.

I wish you the best of luck!!


Many thanks for your very useful hints. Is the breakdown you reported valid for TR and NTR ? Do the TR candidates have both ATPL and Airbus questions ?

thanks again!

[OSTRIA]

Estimated yearly income for Captains is 100K and for First Officers 60K or more…and much more...

Sure…

Reminds me a cheap advertising commercial.

If someone has the very basic skills that a commercial pilot should have i.e analytical thinking, can type some numbers taking into account that you won’t fly more than 400-450 h/ year for FOs and 600 h/year for the captains (LTC captains) and you will end up with a 43 K MAX GROSS figure for FOs which mean 17 K less from what it is advertised (also taxes and social insurance is on you which mean NET 28K / 43-15=28K) and 20-25 K less from what it is advertised for the Captains (around 75K gross).

AVION Express is ACMI company… you won’t fly 830 h/ year. Based on 830 h/ year the figures 100K and 60K are coming from. It’s not WIZZ nor a scheduled flag carrier.

You will be very lucky If you fly 500 h/year (20h/month X 5 months during the winter period and on average 57 h/ month during the summer season X 7 months). Most of my friends there they fly on average 400 h/ year.


60K and 100K is just a Hook !


Avion Express is an absolute “Maître” in presenting the zero for bonus and the garbage as present!


60 K and 100K…for sure … I can't stop laughing...

[Papanguepl]

Thank you I will have the assessments in 2 weeks for a NTR pilots with no experience and is my best shot to get a job.

I studied already Fast track atpl question I´m reading ACE to prepare for the interview.

Thank once again for the reply

Hello,

i wanted to know how did you apply to Avion Express was it via BAA training ? I am also interested in joining the airline I am NTR and didn’t see any open position for NTR except via BAA with self finance TR.
Regards,

[Hogos]

[QUOTE=OSTRIA;11362728]
AVION Express is ACMI company… you won’t fly 830 h/ year. Based on 830 h/ year the figures 100K and 60K are coming from. It’s not WIZZ nor a scheduled flag carrier.

You will be very lucky If you fly 500 h/year (20h/month X 5 months during the winter period and on average 57 h/ month during the summer season X 7 months). Most of my friends there they fly on average 400 h/ year.

I have a question, if a FO will fly around 400/500 hours per year, in the low season they will spend most of the time at home in their own country, or travelling in the bases on standby ?
Because for many people it could be a good compromise between acepting a lower salary and spend more time at home.
Or it's meant to be every month 20 day away and 10 back to the base ?

[FlightDetent]

As a general comment, not airline specific.

The operator will need to keep a hot standby crew at the airplane location for any ad-hoc opportunities. In the wintertime, those are very valuable. Obviously, HOTAC cost is an issue, yet flash-purchase tickets from home don't come cheap either and then there are the rest requirements.

It's a very good question but expect to have a mixed result. Being outstationed for week's time with almost nothing to do is hard to avoid completely. A good scheduling team will try to rotate the pain among the crew team.

[nickler]

Estimated yearly income for Captains is 100K and for First Officers 60K or more…and much more...

Sure…

Reminds me a cheap advertising commercial.

If someone has the very basic skills that a commercial pilot should have i.e analytical thinking, can type some numbers taking into account that you won’t fly more than 400-450 h/ year for FOs and 600 h/year for the captains (LTC captains) and you will end up with a 43 K MAX GROSS figure for FOs which mean 17 K less from what it is advertised (also taxes and social insurance is on you which mean NET 28K / 43-15=28K) and 20-25 K less from what it is advertised for the Captains (around 75K gross).

AVION Express is ACMI company… you won’t fly 830 h/ year. Based on 830 h/ year the figures 100K and 60K are coming from. It’s not WIZZ nor a scheduled flag carrier.

You will be very lucky If you fly 500 h/year (20h/month X 5 months during the winter period and on average 57 h/ month during the summer season X 7 months). Most of my friends there they fly on average 400 h/ year.


60K and 100K is just a Hook !


Avion Express is an absolute “Maître” in presenting the zero for bonus and the garbage as present!


60 K and 100K…for sure … I can't stop laughing...

Correct.

We should also mention a funny topic called taxes…

you’ll be on an agency contract as a complete freelancer so good luck with that; you’ll need to find all sort of gimmicks to keep most of the money you will earn and those gimmicks will raise lots of eyebrows if you speak to any accountant or lawyer.

So if you’re ready to move your residence permit to Galapagos and and open up a bank account in Tijuana then You’ll definitely end up with a good salary 😄

[EC-KIY]

Some countries do not taxate money earned abroad. Could be wise to move your tax residence to one of those places.
Moreover there's the thing of health, pension and other kind of social security benefits. You got to either make SS payments by yourself or just save money for the unforeseen.

[Flocks]

Some countries do not taxate money earned abroad. Could be wise to move your tax residence to one of those places.
.

If you already paid some tax in the country your earn the money. Your resident country can ask you the proof you paid tax already in the making money country.
Each country is different about it in EU, depending of the bilateral agreement of the 2 country. For exemple if you make money in Luxembourg with a employee contract you will still pay tax in Luxembourg whereever you live.

If you have a broker freelance contract and make money, i think you have to pay tax in the country you live and some country (France for exemple) will not accept those broker contract. it as you have to be either a freelancer to invoice the broker / company or be an employee of the broker, meaning you also have to pay your social tax on top of income tax, you can remove about 40/50% of what the broker give you if you want to be legal (I just give France example as I know)

[nickler]

Some countries do not taxate money earned abroad. Could be wise to move your tax residence to one of those places.
Moreover there's the thing of health, pension and other kind of social security benefits. You got to either make SS payments by yourself or just save money for the unforeseen.

Good luck trying to sell to your country that the money you get from an agency based in a tax haven is already taxed (which it is not).
Moreover you can move your residency wherever you want but again good luck when coming back for your block of days off to your EU country to be with your family and telling the tax man you’re just hanging out for a bit over there 😅

[level_change]

Let me rephrase it with a bit of respect which I really dont have, but anyone who accepts these conditions or is remotely interested in it is responsible for the demise of our industry, and you should be brought to justice for it, not only for ruining your own future, but also for your colleagues elsewhere. If ever there will be something like a joint union in Europe to some extend, you people shall be excluded from using any benefits, you are backstabbing on "us" , because you are selling yourself so much below the already destroyed market price that it is despicable. Just because you think you can live in your post soviet third world countries in eastern europe with these salaries, you people shall not be entitled to destroy the standards for the rest of us that live in expensive, highly taxed and overregulated western countries. Because of your willingness to accept the unacceptable because your lack of self respect, you are bringing the B2B prositute pay by the hour **** into the mainstream of european aviation. Stay at home and hide, if I will ever come across one of you in my professional life, there is no chance that I will hire anyone of you because you are spineless "yes"men.

[FlightDetent]

Social security avoidance

+ invented by RYR and their US (pilot unions, anyone?) owners
+ tolerated and welcome for decades, under the disguise of 'benefit to customer and public' at HM's UK, p.l.c. the largest revenue stream market they ever had. BALPA, Revenue Office, ... all inbred
= RYR hldgs are running EUs largest airline and darn successful about it. Clearly EEU pilot's fault.

ACMI Airlines largest Customers
+ to SmaryLynx, EasyJet.
+ to AvionExpress, Eurowings
= Clearly EEU pilot's fault

Salary scales

AvEx = 5000 EUR basic + 50/bh. Tickets to the operating station and hotel in situ provided. Winter time = 1 month PAID vacation on top of the annual 20:10 rostering pattern. Ground training and SIM time paid for by the company, tickets and HOTAC too.
->>> @600 hours = 90 k EUR (before taxes and deductions on the pilot side)

RYR/AirMalta/Lauda
->>> @900 hours = 115k EUR (before taxes and deductions on the pilot side)
->>>@600 hours = 70k EUR (before taxes and deductions on the pilot side)
but, be honest, at least in RYR you can feel better included as a team member by paying for your uniform and commuting home wearing it.

Volotea
- ****tiest contract there is.
- only matched by whatever name other Spanish, IAG owned (I did not say British here, OK?!), devolution of the half-decade


DEMOGRAPHIC

The nationality share at ACMI operators is 40% 'regionals' and 60% 'the proper West EU passport holders'.

+ Of the 40% EEU ,

- approximately half is staying for good. Content with what they are, the life they have and familial relations their keep. Bar the exceptions, finely skilled aviators too.
- 10% will be changing for a LoCo serving the local market (WZZ, BZZ - all western floated companies) if they could get a base in their own country in search of a more strongly anchored existence. Not who killed FlyBe or created SAS Ireland.
- 10% will be later going for ex-pat opportunities in Asia.The distinction between ex-pat and immigrant work is made along the line of income comparison against the local workforce. If you go work for a higher salary than locals or fill a posting where the region lacks qualified manpower, ex-pat is used. If you go work for a lower price or take a job the locals wouldn't touch (Kuwait), that is immigrant work. Technically speaking, there needs to be a third category named 'emigrant' for joining a fair deal job outside of own country that pays less than the home employment offers.


+ of the 60% Western passport pilots

- 20 are in between jobs, providing the food to the home table. Mostly enjoy the bright moment of survival and working along the OEM FCOM rules, no strings attached.
- 10 find themselves in a fringe corner of their career envelope. They get the job done in the summer and fight like an apocalypse for every 3-hour block the schedulers try to steal away from them. Exactly the stance and behaviour that would get them fired unjustly back home and Union and CAA will bury their heads down to the molten core (case study, illustrative: Pulling Wings From Butterflies (https://pullingwingsfrombutterflies.com/). Not saying the author works or ever was interested in Baltic ACMI). Yes, many times these fellows could be described as 'characters' but their integrity is 100% proof, no contest. They hibernate over winter causing no ruffle to anyone and themselves and might return in decimated numbers the next spring.
- 30 are using reduced QoL and slightly negative cashflow as an investment for personal career progression. The same as the western WZZ f/os taking commands in heathen lands for 6k EUR and no commuting, instead of joining BA seniority ladder or moving to the Gulf (oh dear, wait...).

Abhorrent what the EEU pilots brought the industry to.

Now, this can go on for many pages and numerous topics, tax evasion included.

(spoiler: the local lads are the easiest target of all for the IRS of their countries. Speed dial on the auditor's phone, namely so when a new boss needs an example case. We don't lie and steal from our own, despite many keyboard warriors' wet dreams - yes, if given the chance.... same as any other nation. Eventually, all would in some form. However, most actually have local full employment contracts as the IRS will not tolerate self-employed pilots of their citizens. Tut tut, please read that twice)

There's your breadcrumbs.

Very sorry you did not make the grade. Well, actually don't mind. Because drifters who use the higher-valued western reserves to take our jobs and later skip ahead of their brothers back home are the menace keeping us from reaching better remunerations.

The same people who call the scheduling boss on a private line, offering to inject off days retrospectively into the roster in exchange for a more favourable pairing the next week and scooping overtime hours. Taken away from the next guy. #vatniktears


Ready for personal questions and insults after the lunch break, appreciate your time.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x640/r_c_9bad410faedf43dd2758f0817bfc2e0a615d7d13.jpeg

[FlightDetent]

Thank you for waiting, hope your meal was delicious.

It turns out, on a full stomach, the perfect fix was just two words away!

... responsible for the demise of our industry, and you should be brought to justice for it, not only for ruining your own future, but also for your colleagues elsewhere. If ever there will be something like a joint union in Europe to some extend, you people shall be excluded from using any benefits, you are backstabbing on "us" , because you are selling yourself so much below the already destroyed market price that it is despicable.

Just because you think you can live in your THEIR post soviet third world countries in eastern europe with these salaries, you people shall not be entitled to destroy the standards for the rest of us that live STAY in expensive, highly taxed and overregulated western countries. Because of your willingness to accept the unacceptable because your lack of self respect, you are bringing the B2B prositute pay by the hour **** into the mainstream of european aviation.

Stay at home and hide, if I will ever come across one of you in my professional life, there is no chance that I will hire anyone of you because you are spineless "yes"men.

No original grammar was hurt or altered when editing the above content. But the underline with bold is mine.

Still interested what is the gross salary at Iberia Express during winter time on 0 hours. Asking for a friend, someone whom I met on an internet discussion board...

Stay safe everyone, the summer is coming.

Don't let Primera come back.
Don't ask what EW EU package is for PRG base.

[AviatorBoy_95]

Hello,
For those currently flying there, any idea on how many hours of flying one can expect per month? especially for low timers during the Line training?
according to FlightRadar, only 4 planes are currently flying. It is pretty concerning.
Thanks

[level_change]

Dear flightdetent ! I stand corrected as you absolutely nailed the coffin with your analysis. In your honor Sir?! It's time to open the most expensive bottle that I can still find in my cellar, one that I wasn't able to sell during the 3 year covid layoff, in the house that I would not have been able to get a mortgage for .

In all these years I always fought for basic fair treatment from my position of weakness, put my job and the income for the family on the line, sometimes lost it, just because I can never accept that us pilots, for whatever reason are supposed to be totally rightless and underpaid slaves to the companies who have been feasting on our hard work.

[nickler]

Thank you for waiting, hope your meal was delicious.

It turns out, on a full stomach, the perfect fix was just two words away!



No original grammar was hurt or altered when editing the above content. But the underline with bold is mine.

Still interested what is the gross salary at Iberia Express during winter time on 0 hours. Asking for a friend, someone whom I met on an internet discussion board...

Stay safe everyone, the summer is coming.

Don't let Primera come back.
Don't ask what EW EU package is for PRG base.

I believe many people are missing the main point in this discussion: as ****ty as some Terms and Conditions can be (and they are) within “westerner” European operators, they will mostly come under direct contracts with the airline and with a contract that will take care of social security and taxation. We know this is not always the case by all means, think about the old Ryr or Wizz agency contracts, but as of today in most cases you will end with a “clean” probably underpaid contract. Being “contracted” by an agency based in a tax haven that grants your services to an airline that doesn’t recognise you as an employee opens a huge can of worms in most EU countries with respect to taxation but also to legal matters should any sort of assistance be required by the pilot for whatever reason. Certain airlines advertising on “earn more than 100K a year!” is based on the fact that the average pilot population is not well versed with rules related to income taxes in their country of residence and also with legal matters related to our profession. With this kind of contracts to keep the “big bucks” you are forced to cheat the system otherwise you might end up paying more than 50% of taxes in your westerner Europe country. Cheating the system is a very bad idea, it can go well, but if it doesn’t you will wish you had paid every single cent of taxes. I have seen colleagues in this situation doing all sort of aerobatics to keep the money eventually getting bit in their arse by the tax men. Advice: choose whatever company you think works best for you but play by the rules…

[FlightDetent]

Your point seems to be the westerners need to make their own research and understand the landscape when signing with such agencies / operators. And so do the easterners, no difference. It is the same landscape introduced to the EU by RYR and their US owners 2 decades ago. BTW those agencies are predominantly British Commonwealth registered entities, it does not get much closer to CAA UK than Crawley.

When I see a contracted offer, clearly my take home is (after direct expenses) 25%-35% less and I need to register a proper business structure in my tax residence country.

About the advertisement, true. But hey EK also boast 42 days of annual vacation, Qatar tell you there is a contract. We could go on for pages with those examples. My recent favourite is the HNA group (China, about 8 expat-ready airlines in total) 'grounding insurance' for lost medical only pays out after you regain the CAAC Class 1, ... imagine the no pressure on the doctor from the company there.

The contract never says it is tax-free money, it says proper taxation is the supplier's sole responsibility.

It is very helpful you brought that up. My case about the previous vile rant not being attached to any part of reality is put to rest.

[Salve]

Hello guys!
maybe you can help to clarify a doubt I have. Is it F2R Avion Express contractor?

what if I already applied & pass recruitment for Heston Airlines and Avion at the same time (both under same F2R agency)?
Will I have some kind of trouble having two profile with the same contractors company or they will not care and I can choose the most convenient btwn Avion and Heston?
(I’m not that expert as a contractor pilot and I don’t want to **** up something and loose the chance of fly a bit for the upcoming high season).
thank you 😉

[FlyHigher]

With all the advertisements by Avion Express it seems they are a bit desperate for pilots. What is the real amount of BH pilots fly on average per year?
I saw already very different opinions, from 400 to 700.
Also, as a matter of curiosity, some agencies advertise things a bit different. For example, one say the company pays per diems plus basic salary plus BH. Others say per diems are included in basic salary. What is true?

[Wingsoffury]

5.5k summer + 50 BH +80 per day on.
5k winter same as above
game changer.. maybe not but better than a poke in the eye… for some

[uberfly]

5.5k summer + 50 BH +80 per day on.
5k winter same as above
game changer.. maybe not but better than a poke in the eye… for some

It is getting better for sure but not enough. Considering and knowing these numbers are gross Captain on the top of the scale should made around 14K so he can bring home around 8K after tax. So imagine the money saved by those companies.

ACMI's nowadays lacking significant amount of pilots. Only way to cover their operations for the summer to increase the salaries but in long term change their mentality toward their flight crew. Many people already escaped from those companies for last couple of months. Many of them opt for lower salaries but stable companies where they have certain income all year around with legal local contracts. Some of them still stays no matter what but each of them have different circumstances and reasons to do so.

[FlightDetent]

The +80 € is for a ground training / SIM / e-learning day, not all of the duty, right? OTOH there's 5k EUR summer bonus if a pilot stays over the full summer season and contributin to LoL from the second year onwards.

The above as per my latest SIGMA leaflet.

[Wingsoffury]

The 80 says it’s day on duty? And this is the day on duty definition:

Day on duty* stands for day on duty and includes flying duty, standby duty, OFF/B, training day on base.

so is it included?

[FlightDetent]

Your eyesight better sir! that's around +12*80 = 960 EUR/m? Covers some of the taxes...

EDIT: nope.

80/day is before going solo when away from home (and 50/day for CBT). During the full pay period, this allowance does not apply. Anyone hear different?

[uberfly]

Your eyesight better sir! that's around +12*80 = 960 EUR/m? Covers some of the taxes...

EDIT: nope.

80/day is before going solo when away from home (and 50/day for CBT). During the full pay period, this allowance does not apply. Anyone hear different?

Right, no 80 Euros when on the line.

[MOLBA]

I am having an Online assessment in the coming weeks, and I would appreciate any useful feedback please! I ve heared that Pilotassessment is not enough for the ATPL, is that true? it has been long time since i ve got my ATPL, and i am a bit worried if I have to redo AE, no time I have to pass through avex again a look after questions.
I am very grateful if someone passed the assessment, please ! For the position NTR applied via a known ATO. thnx

[MOLBA]

Any non type rated cadet applied for this offer paying 800 bucks via a very well known ATO?
Hey I applied via a known ATO, 800 bucks as well! still waiting for the date.

I am wondering, if you have passed it, can you get me some feedback about the Technical part please? i heared it is all taken from Aviation exam! any confirmation please? thank you so much !

[MD83FO]

Hello guys, your kind recommendation,
Avion Express, or Smartlynx ?

[Scorpape]

Hello guys, your kind recommendation,
Avion Express, or Smartlynx ?

none of them, stay away if you care for your well being.
​​​​​If you really want to make a choice I had far more negative talks about Smartlynx with colleagues than about Avion. My 2 cents

[MOLBA]

Thank you I will have the assessments in 2 weeks for a NTR pilots with no experience and is my best shot to get a job.

I studied already Fast track atpl question I´m reading ACE to prepare for the interview.

Thank once again for the reply

Hello,
did you pass the assessment ? Is it enough the fast trak + Pilotassessment ? I ve heard that the ATPL questions are similar to Aviation exam, could you please give me a feedback ? I really appreciate it !! thank you so much

[CW247]

Somehow both AvEx and SLX have managed to convince the authorities they they should be allowed to hire South American pilots (ICAO license holders) to fly on a European AOC. They will get a temporary validation. The shortage is real. So real in fact that I just received an email from an agency offering Captain positions at Volotea with a 10k starting bonus plus another 10k contract completion bonus.

[uberfly]

Somehow both AvEx and SLX have managed to convince the authorities they they should be allowed to hire South American pilots (ICAO license holders) to fly on a European AOC. They will get a temporary validation. The shortage is real. So real in fact that I just received an email from an agency offering Captain positions at Volotea with a 10k starting bonus plus another 10k contract completion bonus.

I was asking for sometime how come they can hire ICAO pilots. I think not only South Americans but any ICAO licence holder. About shortage, I am not sure. But for sure these two companies did not want to increase the salaries so they were limited with the people applied to them with EASA licence. Instead of offering higher packages they decide to seek for pilots who can accept this conditions. I think this is more about the case than we having shortage of pilot in EU.

[OSTRIA]

I consider it very dirty that AVION is building its recruitment campaign on lies and fake news. All of its recruitment agencies like Winget aviation, F2R, SGaviation services, etc. they mention 90 h on average for the summer season which is a pure lie!


It's a pure HOOK the figures they present !


You are going to fly less than 60 h / month during the summer season and less than 20 h per month during the winter.


400 h Max / Year for FOs. Captains and especially LTC they will fly more.


The truth is: you will fly less than 60 h on average during the summer so... 35 E/ hour for FOs [above 1000 BH on A320, otherwise 30 E/ hour)] * 60 = 2100 E or 1800 E (when below 1000 BH on type: 30 * 60= 1800). That will be the flight pay.


So calculate 400 h per year * 35 E or 30 E = 14 K and 12 K respectively gross. Now add the improved basic salary for the summer and for the winter season to have a realistic figure. Remember that is gross ! Everything is on you!


if you declare taxes and you don't hide your income subtract, depending on where your residence is, Minimum 15 K for FOs.


They try with lies and fake news to boost their recruitment campaign.

Bravo AVION... continue like this...What is coming next ? To hire pilots with experience only on Microsoft Flight Sim ?

[EC-KIY]

A friend of me in Avion has just told me that they've received an email with a further increase and a change in payment structure. From May base salary will be 5.5k/6k/10k€ for FO/SFO/CAP and on top of that 10/20€ FO/CAP per flown block hour. Winter it's 3k/3.5k/5k plus same hourly rate. All figures gross of course. It seems they are losing more people that they can afford to lose. Maybe they should ask why and think about some organizational changes, there are things you can't buy with money.

[WhatShortage]

I consider it very dirty that AVION is building its recruitment campaign on lies and fake news. All of its recruitment agencies like Winget aviation, F2R, SGaviation services, etc. they mention 90 h on average for the summer season which is a pure lie!


It's a pure HOOK the figures they present !


You are going to fly less than 60 h / month during the summer season and less than 20 h per month during the winter.


400 h Max / Year for FOs. Captains and especially LTC they will fly more.


The truth is: you will fly less than 60 h on average during the summer so... 35 E/ hour for FOs [above 1000 BH on A320, otherwise 30 E/ hour)] * 60 = 2100 E or 1800 E (when below 1000 BH on type: 30 * 60= 1800). That will be the flight pay.


So calculate 400 h per year * 35 E or 30 E = 14 K and 12 K respectively gross. Now add the improved basic salary for the summer and for the winter season to have a realistic figure. Remember that is gross ! Everything is on you!


if you declare taxes and you don't hide your income subtract, depending on where your residence is, Minimum 15 K for FOs.


They try with lies and fake news to boost their recruitment campaign.

Bravo AVION... continue like this...What is coming next ? To hire pilots with experience only on Microsoft Flight Sim ?
95 hours next month, ~50-60 this one ( starting the season many training flights and safety pilot)
90 hours the buddy that was sitting next to me
Another 2 guys with 85 sharing the table
About captains, a couple of 70ish hour sitting around as well and 80 the one I flew with today.

They didn't hire you by any chance? I get your bad blood but... Literally not true what you're saying.

[OSTRIA]

@ WhatShortage

All the friends I have, who are flying for Avion, have interviews with other companies or they have jumped boat already, especially after legacy airlines open recruitment again !

Can you upload your roster as well as your "friends" roster ? it would be fun..!

...and please tell me, explain why the company is looking so desperately -non stop- for pilots all year round and now even accepting all ICAO licenses ? Which other serious company hires with 100 h on type ?

Maybe you are not aware of the serious incidents that are happening in Avion ? For example... in summer 2022 (SAFETY ALERT FLT-04/22, dated July 13th 2022): aircraft was cruising at FL360 with CI 100, airspeed approached MMO when the PIC (PM at the time) "took control" and disconnected A/THR by bringing the THR levers to idle, shortly afterwards he also disconnected the AP and started to climb while the OVERSPEED WARNING was triggered !

Now the most interesting part: .....Maximum rate of climb +4529 fpm with a positive acceleration 1.43 G followed by -0.57 G. Airplane reached 37.476 feet !

Level bust by 1476 feet in RVSM airspace ! I hope you understand 'WhatShortage' what RVSM is and don't have me to explain- elaborate further !

That is the level of pilots flying for Avion !! Now its even worst since the aviation market is opening up again.

The next time "my friend" I will give you examples from the SIM sessions where Eurowings pilots were present and couldn't believe their eyes (failures of both Captains and FOs).

Guess what...? All the failures- substandard and incompetent pilots- continue flying with Avion Express but in other operations - projects (not Eurowings of course) in SQD (Sky Cana), AYT (SunExpress), LGW (TUI and easyJet), VNO (tour operators) etc.


Me hot blooded ? NO, I am very happy where I am !


AVION is taking now all the "left overs"....of pilots !

[austrian71]

I think its getting more dangerous in aviation .........

[ZAV]

Total crap these days …….Ostria and Austrian are correct. Strange Avion still recruiting don’t you think, all the decent carriers have finished . Seriously have to recommend to friends and family whom to fly with these days when going on trips . Glad I had my best years with professional carriers, certainly not a career would currently recommend .

[ZAV]

Nothing surprises me with this lot. Unbelievable , plus totally crappy recruitment agencies . There is a shortage correct , but decent Airlines have no problem recruiting at all.

[Dmitri]

What is the recruitment company name, please?

[ZAV]

They are mentioned in the threads

[PilotLZ]

The advertised roster pattern looks a bit strange. How is it possible to have less days OFF in the winter than in the summer, given that most of the flying in this kind of ACMI companies happens during the summer? Or do they just keep the crews on standby wherever the aircraft are based for the low season?

[FlightDetent]

How long is a piece of string?

Join, enjoy, and bail out if necessary (sending the message directly to them).

[FlyHigher]

The advertised roster pattern looks a bit strange. How is it possible to have less days OFF in the winter than in the summer, given that most of the flying in this kind of ACMI companies happens during the summer? Or do they just keep the crews on standby wherever the aircraft are based for the low season?

Because they are expecting that you reach the maximum hours allowable per each 28 days in a shorter time during the summer than during the winter.

[FlyHigher]

How long is a piece of string?

Join, enjoy, and bail out if necessary (sending the message directly to them).

At the end of the day it is all about what suits you better.

[PilotLZ]

Because they are expecting that you reach the maximum hours allowable per each 28 days in a shorter time during the summer than during the winter.
That could be a valid reason; however, given that an annual number of hours in the 400-600 range has been quoted on this thread, is the 28-day limitation that much of a concern outside peak summer season? In terms of workload and hours, Avion Express doesn't seem to be anywhere near a low-cost carrier. Or am I missing something?

[ZAV]

I think the answer to all this is who on earth is still recruiting for the summer season at the beginning of May. yes there is a pilot shortage but the quality airlines finished a while ago. Should be an indication..................of whom to work for.

[Superpilot]

One important thing to consider is just who are the customers of ACMIs like Avion Express? It's the same airlines that could buy more aircraft and hire more pilots. They choose not to due to peak seasonal demand. So the "good" airlines are actually suffering a pilot shortage via proxy.

[Airone2977]

One important thing to consider is just who are the customers of ACMIs like Avion Express? It's the same airlines that could buy more aircraft and hire more pilots. They choose not to due to peak seasonal demand. So the "good" airlines are actually suffering a pilot shortage via proxy.

Legacy airlines in Europe does not have issues recruiting flight crew, lack of training capacity is the main problems for everyone.

[PilotLZ]

As much as training capacity is indeed an issue, it's not the reason why ACMI companies exist and are doing well during times of high demand. Many larger leisure and even legacy carriers consciously choose to have a fleet of however many aircraft they can run year-round (excluding some time allowance for periods of heavy maintenance which are normally scheduled for the winter) rather than have multiple idling aircraft and crews throughout the winter. For the peak summer season, they hire the likes of Avion Express and many other, much smaller companies, mostly based in Eastern Europe. The thing is, in case of a downturn the "seasonal helpers" will be the first ones to be kicked out, well before any downsizing of the carrier's own fleet is on the cards.

[Alternate_law320]

Hello everyone! I have a technical interview with Avion express scheduled for next week! i was hoping if anyone could give some insight on what to expect and typical questions.
I am applying as TR captain.
Thank you in advance

[Prisma]

Could anyone provide some info regarding their roster patterns?

Are they doing manly 4 sector days?
If you live in a city where they have an operating base, will that define or prioritize you working from that base?

Thank you in advance

[Clamis]

I am so sad for you guys, always complaining, always being that frustrated...
I joined 3 months ago ans you know what ?? I love it. Proper training, high basic salary (so who cares about the 400-600 hrs)... This month I made 11'000 after tax... yesss AE paid for socal security and pension, i paid the taxes in my country. And you know what, I spent 14 days home, with my family...
So please guys, go fishing, relax and enjoy your life that is that much better than mine !
I flew for one renowned Airline in Switzerland and i can tell you, the package (what I was looking for) was a lot worse.
wish you all a great summer☀️ be happy and positive

[giord]

I am so sad for you guys, always complaining, always being that frustrated...
I joined 3 months ago ans you know what ?? I love it. Proper training, high basic salary (so who cares about the 400-600 hrs)... This month I made 11'000 after tax... yesss AE paid for socal security and pension, i paid the taxes in my country. And you know what, I spent 14 days home, with my family...
So please guys, go fishing, relax and enjoy your life that is that much better than mine !
I flew for one renowned Airline in Switzerland and i can tell you, the package (what I was looking for) was a lot worse.
wish you all a great summer☀️ be happy and positive

11K after taxes then you don’t pay taxes…

[dirk85]

Yes, we are all convinced that Avion Express, the bottom feeder airline in Europe since many years, will consistently pay its crews 11k a month, all year, for the foreseable future, after taxes. Let’s all apply.

[PilotLZ]

Can anyone shed some light on the following:
-Is the winter one-month vacation assigned in a single block or can it be used in parts to supplement the 7 days OFF per rotation?
-With the establishment of a new AOC and extensive hiring of ICAO-licensed pilots, will European pilots get predominantly projects in Europe?

[WhatShortage]

Can anyone shed some light on the following:
-Is the winter one-month vacation assigned in a single block or can it be used in parts to supplement the 7 days OFF per rotation?
1month off, as clear as water, no tricks. Can't play with distributing days off as you wish, there are 400 pilots.


-With the establishment of a new AOC and extensive hiring of ICAO-licensed pilots, will European pilots get predominantly projects in Europe?
ICAO mainly for shortage on high season, they can't even work with EU AOC/PLATES without special permission nor Europe


There you have some light, you never know what will happen this is a fiesta.

[EZeg]

Despite all the considerations, let’s say same facts.
Avion is paying you gross, as a service provider with agencies located out of Europe. Those “fake” agents are just to let you be responsible for taxes and avoid any EU labour law.
Salary is acceptable in summer but not in winter where their activities drop down.
Rostering, as is managed by the company is quite terrible. In summer they will press you to sell all your days off promising you the moon. No life and just fake promises.
You will have a dream salary, since will be constantly changing according market demand and NO life.
Their plan is to open another AOC in Brazil now… good luck for ICAO pilots too. If the plan will be finalised you will have the wonderful chance to be part of their awesome team.
But try to escape as soon as you can. Those companies are just for beginners or people close to retirement. Look for a stable environment not based only on their personal profit. Scammers?!? Or maybe aviation world is changing?

[EZeg]

Can anyone shed some light on the following:
-Is the winter one-month vacation assigned in a single block or can it be used in parts to supplement the 7 days OFF per rotation?
-With the establishment of a new AOC and extensive hiring of ICAO-licensed pilots, will European pilots get predominantly projects in Europe?

winter vacation is just a dream. Nothing written, just for fishing

[EZeg]

Can anyone shed some light on the following:
-Is the winter one-month vacation assigned in a single block or can it be used in parts to supplement the 7 days OFF per rotation?
-With the establishment of a new AOC and extensive hiring of ICAO-licensed pilots, will European pilots get predominantly projects in Europe?

winter month is on advertisements only. Is a fake.
pilots with icao are hired to feed gaps, Brazil AOC is another dream. In summer you will not have regular rest and days off, roster responsible is well known as best killer as was awarded by company last year.

[PilotLZ]

Thanks for the insightful comments. But what about winter roster? Are you actually on base 23 days on, 7 days off, not doing much? Or are they offering you to "buy" extra off days, like their competitors do, i.e. stay at home more in exchange for a lower service provision fee?

As a side comment, there's no denial that someone looking for a more stable life would rather be fighting for a spot in their local legacy or LCC carrier that would allow them to return home after most, if not all flights. So, ACMI is largely left to either youngsters looking for flight hours that would allow them to take the next step or guys in a more advanced stage in life with grown-up kids who don't mind working hard over the summer in exchange for a quiet winter with some basic salary still coming in every month.

[FlightDetent]

What makes you believe any past rostering arrangements, individual or fleetwide, are indicative what you may encounter after joining?

Similar can be asked about the advertised / promoted rotations.

​​​​​​Oh boy, annual leave at Emirates is not what's written on the paper, duty patterns at Qatar are not what their own regulation require (ever pending the upcoming change to re-align: the regulations!).

It is the end of May, if you are fishing in this barrel then sure choice grab AvEx now and make the most of it. In experience and widening own horizons, then go thrive elsewhere.

[CW247]

Thanks for the insightful comments. But what about winter roster? Are you actually on base 23 days on, 7 days off, not doing much? Or are they offering you to "buy" extra off days, like their competitors do, i.e. stay at home more in exchange for a lower service provision fee?

As a side comment, there's no denial that someone looking for a more stable life would rather be fighting for a spot in their local legacy or LCC carrier that would allow them to return home after most, if not all flights. So, ACMI is largely left to either youngsters looking for flight hours that would allow them to take the next step or guys in a more advanced stage in life with grown-up kids who don't mind working hard over the summer in exchange for a quiet winter with some basic salary still coming in every month.


ACMIs also attract tax dodgers due to zero tax paid at source. It's the extra dough that makes the whole experience even remotely worthwhile.

[PilotLZ]

And what's the technical assessment like for rated candidates these days? Is it A320 only or also ATPL?

[dirk85]

And what's the technical assessment like for rated candidates these days? Is it A320 only or also ATPL?

A pilot license and a pulse will suffice

[Flyer4040]

Hi guys
I’ll be having my sim check with AE,
has anyone recently done that to give me some info please?

thanks

[WhatShortage]

winter month is on advertisements only. Is a fake.
pilots with icao are hired to feed gaps, Brazil AOC is another dream. In summer you will not have regular rest and days off, roster responsible is well known as best killer as was awarded by company last year.
Good insight mate, what's the source? Your balls?
As far as I am concerned, no one had anything else than 8 days off +2 positioning unless you sold them. Seems like someone got rejected... Or maybe not promoted to captain?

[UpandU]

EZeg
The sooner you will have realized that ​​​​​most of the people are runaways from dubious outfits or kicked out from decent ones ,from ground to flight depts the better will be the explanation of everything mentioned in this thread for everybody.
The unpresentable characters have been sent away since we have a rock bottom too but ,hey guys we need also to keep running the show here...
Obviously that goes in our favor because the more we need to attract people the more our salaries will keep going high,until taxation office doesn't catch us and we will need to sell our souls :E!
I had a nice car and i had to sell it when i have been caught,i had to beg the company to let me fly ,luckily is over now.:ok:
i would have never dreamed about these figures but it is demand-offer rule.
You choose...

[A3X0]

Hello dear colleagues,

Anyone knows please which bases avion express are offering for the moment?

Thank you for your time

Best regards
a3x0

[ExLunaScientia]

The latest contract is:
Cpt:
summer 5500+BH
winter 2800+BH
​​​BH=50

FO:
summer 2800+BH
winter 1600+BH
BH=35 (>1000H on type)
BH=30 (<1000H on type)


Before taxes?

[giord]

Before taxes?
Before what? 😎

[level_change]

ASG group , avoid it like the plague. I think your average prostitute has better job security and a more legal contract in lithuania than any pilot that works for any company in that group.

[TheEdge]

ASG group , avoid it like the plague. I think your average prostitute has better job security and a more legal contract in lithuania than any pilot that works for any company in that group.
ASG, smartlynx, the real cancer of aviation

[uberfly]

ASG, smartlynx, the real cancer of aviation

Totally agree. If you have other options just dont go for ASG group companies.

[LEALLEMD]

Is anybody waiting for the online assessment (1st stage)? Looking for feedback on the technical part if someone can help! I am NTR.

[chrivas.intl]

online assessment (1st stage)? Would be helpful

[Simon Rodin]

Dear Pilots.

I myself had a very bad experience in Avion Express and also heard some of my friends having it aslo.
Writing this to warn others so they dont experience the same:
in short here is what I experienced:
I payed 25000 euros to get at least 500 hours through EagleJet.
I start line training and get 14.75 hours. I get stopped on my line training and sent home. No reason given why.
I wait for about 1 month with no news on when I will continue line training. I get asked to be a support sim in prague on very short notice. It says start time on schedule and I was there then. I should have been there 2 hours before for briefing so after helping the company they decide to terminate me.
I get no refund from Avion Express but get 5000 euros back from EagleJet. I loose 20000 euros on this and also they are evil enough to wait 3-4 weeks until Avion Express tell me I am terminated so I miss out on finding another pilot job for the summer season.
Never experienced such an unpleasant evil thing.
Have heard this company have treated others bad also so please be aware.

[Klimax]

Dear Pilots.

I myself had a very bad experience in Avion Express and also heard some of my friends having it aslo.
Writing this to warn others so they dont experience the same:
in short here is what I experienced:
I payed 25000 euros to get at least 500 hours through EagleJet.
I start line training and get 14.75 hours. I get stopped on my line training and sent home. No reason given why.
I wait for about 1 month with no news on when I will continue line training. I get asked to be a support sim in prague on very short notice. It says start time on schedule and I was there then. I should have been there 2 hours before for briefing so after helping the company they decide to terminate me.
I get no refund from Avion Express but get 5000 euros back from EagleJet. I loose 20000 euros on this and also they are evil enough to wait 3-4 weeks until Avion Express tell me I am terminated so I miss out on finding another pilot job for the summer season.
Never experienced such an unpleasant evil thing.
Have heard this company have treated others bad also so please be aware.

Thanks for sharing. Hopefully other can learn form your experience and stay clear of leaches such as EagleJet and crappy Avion Espresso! yikes.

[BTMS_OVHT]

Thanks for sharing your experience.
Good you have mentioned your name. At least we all can see another instagram superpilot (don't want to say id..t) who is supporting nowdays the P2F scheme and supporting such ASG airlines destroying the european pilot job market.
hopefully recruiters from well established airlines are reading this forum as well to see whom to reject.

[TBSC]

You did not want to say id..t but somehow you just did.
It's a shame not everyone can start their career as a captain working for a well established airline like you.

[BTMS_OVHT]

You did not want to say id..t but somehow you just did.
It's a shame not everyone can start their career as a captain working for a well established airline like you.

hold your horses, my friend... :-) do you think the P2F is really something we should do? i guess you are single, in mid-20ties just freshly from (or still living in) mama hotel, right?
whatever the times were, i never pay to fly an aircraft for a purpose of "job".

[Simon Rodin]

Thanks for sharing. Hopefully other can learn form your experience and stay clear of leaches such as EagleJet and crappy Avion Espresso! yikes.
Thanks for the support. Yeah this experience was not human and hopefully these companies changes its behaviour and stops the criminal evil actions and treats people much more decently in the future.
Lets support the good actions and companies that treat their pilots with the respect they deserve😊

[Klimax]

Thanks for sharing your experience.
Good you have mentioned your name. At least we all can see another instagram superpilot (don't want to say id..t) who is supporting nowdays the P2F scheme and supporting such ASG airlines destroying the european pilot job market.
hopefully recruiters from well established airlines are reading this forum as well to see whom to reject.

what at freaking tool you are! Clearly you mother didn´t bring you up right! Good luck in your live - hiding behind identity! We need pilots like you - NOT. Hopefully you don´t sit next to me, you fool!

[WhatShortage]

Dear Pilots.

I myself had a very bad experience in Avion Express and also heard some of my friends having it aslo.
Writing this to warn others so they dont experience the same:
in short here is what I experienced:
I payed 25000 euros to get at least 500 hours through EagleJet.
I start line training and get 14.75 hours. I get stopped on my line training and sent home. No reason given why.
I wait for about 1 month with no news on when I will continue line training. I get asked to be a support sim in prague on very short notice. It says start time on schedule and I was there then. I should have been there 2 hours before for briefing so after helping the company they decide to terminate me.
I get no refund from Avion Express but get 5000 euros back from EagleJet. I loose 20000 euros on this and also they are evil enough to wait 3-4 weeks until Avion Express tell me I am terminated so I miss out on finding another pilot job for the summer season.
Never experienced such an unpleasant evil thing.
Have heard this company have treated others bad also so please be aware.
Are you sure you want to blame the company buddy? Wouldn't go that way if I were you and you very well know the reason am saying this.

what at freaking tool you are! Clearly you mother didn´t bring you up right! Good luck in your live - hiding behind identity! We need pilots like you - NOT. Hopefully you don´t sit next to me, you fool!
Supporting a pay to fly is the cancer of aviation, the guy didn't say anything wrong neither with the critic of the super Instagram "pilot", if you knew the precedents you'd shut your mouth up.

Can't wait to see many pilots going out because of trying to save couple of hundreds euros during the winter months unlike heston/getjet/smartlynx etc with the same summer salary, pay rise or Avion will be out of the game without trained pilots. Fingers crossed either of it happens
​

[Hitchiker]

I myself had a very bad experience in Avion Express and also heard some of my friends having it aslo.
Writing this to warn others so they dont experience the same:
in short here is what I experienced:
I payed 25000 euros to get at least 500 hours through EagleJet.
I start line training and get 14.75 hours. I get stopped on my line training and sent home. No reason given why.
I wait for about 1 month with no news on when I will continue line training. I get asked to be a support sim in prague on very short notice. It says start time on schedule and I was there then. I should have been there 2 hours before for briefing so after helping the company they decide to terminate me.
I get no refund from Avion Express but get 5000 euros back from EagleJet. I loose 20000 euros on this and also they are evil enough to wait 3-4 weeks until Avion Express tell me I am terminated so I miss out on finding another pilot job for the summer season.
Never experienced such an unpleasant evil thing.
Have heard this company have treated others bad also so please be aware.

​​​​​​​It seems more like the airline of opportunities… of getting screwed!😂😂😂😂

[giord]

Avion has a very good salary if you’re not too bothered by the fact of having to pay some taxes and social security somewhere on this planet.
Of course if you get worried by the simple fact of possibly facing some serious legal prosecutions from the tax men of your countries, then try to look for something else.

[TheEdge]

Wow, Eaglejet, pay2fly, avionexpress, dumblynx, aviasolutiongroup all in one thread.....the worst of the worst in the entire aviation sector.
The metestasis is spreading, the cancer of aviation. Full of p2f, incompetent pilots and managers...
Those "companies" shall be closed asap.

[Eagle Jet]

Good day Simon,

We are surprised by your comments.

1- You were verbally warned by the airline to immediately change your unprofessional behavior from the start of the line training phase. In view of the lack of improvement which followed on your part, the airline personnel had to organize a meeting during which you were again officially informed of this warning and you were again clearly given the reasons for it. Unfortunately, again to no effect as you kept the same unprofessional behavior which led to your obvious and justified termination. It is rare for a pilot who is accepted by an airline after passing the screening to be terminated especially with this airline whose personnel is always trying to go above and beyond to help and assist cadets to do well. For you to have the audacity to mention that "no reason given why" regarding your termination is totally false and clearly reflects a personality which is unfit for the role.

2- We noticed by reading your recent posts that you have been just terminated by a second airline which has no connection with the first one just a few months after your first termination. According to your post, this again occurred during your line training. An airline pilot career is challenging. When you receive a negative result or outcome, you draw the conclusions, learn from them so it does not happen again and move forward. Unfortunately, it seems that this is not your case and it is highly likely you will keep receiving the same negative results as long as you do not make the needed corrections regarding your behavior. Being in denial of your repeated unprofessional behavior in a work environment as sensitive as the one of the airlines not only to yourself but also to third parties will not help you moving forward.

In any case, we wish you the best.

The Eagle Jet Intl. Support Team.

[Vokes55]

For you to have the audacity to mention that "no reason given why" regarding your termination is totally false and clearly reflects a personality which is unfit for the role.

Obviously an organisation involved in putting people in control of the safety of 180 paying passengers would have the professionalism and integrity to find out such personality traits at an interview and assessment stage.

Alas, all you cared about was his ability to give you 25,000 Euros.

This thread would be amusing if it wasn’t for the fact it involves companies responsible for destroying T&Cs across the continent. Needless to say the advice is to avoid Avion, Smartynx and anybody associated with Eaglejet like the plague. As a passenger as well as a career choice.

[Ragneir]

I'm really appaled at the comments here from supposed pilots that most likely never flew for Avion.
.
I got into Avion as Zero Time on Type Cadet (did my Type Rating on my own, then grabbed my chance and held on to it for dear life), did my line training with STELLAR LTC's, constant support from Crewing, consistent flying (I hit the 100h per month limitation and had to extend my stay in the base), and constant and considerable support from other FO's and non-LT Captains.
Everywhere I turned, I asked for help trying to get better, to improve myself as a pilot, and EVERYWHERE I would get the support I asked. Some LTC's would go out of their way to spend their days off interacting with me, making sure I was reading the correct material, the correct OM's and FCOM Chapters, and helping me become a generally better pilot and person on the cockpit.

I'm starting to see a trend here that is trying to shove Avion away for a sh** airline for the simple reason that they are an ACMI.

These guys are taking advantage of all these so called flag carriers, with their ridiculous standards required to even apply (like Air France requiring ICAO French 6... Just so they can say "hey, we hire anybody!" when realistically only french people will have that type of French level), and the fact that these same airlines are offering sh** wages to experienced pilots, wages that should only apply to cadets and only for the first year, if even that much.
I have better terms and conditions than all Lowcosts, which are the realistic entry points for any low hour pilots.
I have my free crew meals at my disposal and free drinks whenever I want on the cockpit (RYR and EZY you have to pay for those).
Everyone is extremely competent, from Office Workers, to maintenance, to cabin crew and then flight crew.
The bad weeds are plucked fast and efficiently, to be retrained, or terminated in case they refuse to change.

During rotation periods, almost everything is paid for. Some bases, EVERYTHING is paid for. That means, on top of a VERY good salary, you're still saving money by not having to rent an apartment or book a hotel. Breakfast is paid for (on some bases, lunch and dinner too). Transport from the hotel to the airport is paid for and ALWAYS on time, if the hotel is too far away.
Flights from your home to the base and back home are paid for, with hold luggage included.

My trips and schedule are all efficiently taken care of. It's not perfect, but they're human, and I can't expect perfection.
Nothing a quick chat with them won't solve, should I have any issues or questions.

What's there not to like?
I've met some people here that got in via Eaglejet or BAA or whatever broker they got through, and I couldn't care less where they come from. Even if I paid 20K to get in, this money is recouped in less than a year due to wages and the amount of money we save by having everything paid for.
My T&C's aren't changing, and they're better than what I've been offered so far:
-Marabu offered 1200€ per month before taxes and considering 60h flown per month) :D
-Condor offer was similar to Marabu. :D
-Wizzair is still offering 1400€ per month after taxes but already including perdiems. :ugh:
-AFAIK, Eurowings will only upgrade your wage after 1 year with them. Before that, you're stuck with 1500€ or 1600€. But I never got a direct offer because I refuse to pay to travel for their ridiculous selection process, so I'm not holding on this one.

The only thing Avion does is to dock your wage before you finish line training. In my case, I was earning 1000€ per month. AND I started getting paid from the first day of OCC. Meaning, if it took 2 months to start LIFUS, I wouldn't be drying out in the sun. After you do that and you get 100h flown with them, you're upgraded to FO salary, which is considerable. Base 3000€ during winter and base 5500€ during summer. Sure, we get low BH pay, but at least now I'm sitting in front of my computer doing jack sh*t and earning a comfortable 100€ per day just by existing and being hired by them.

I'm sorry but there's a reason almost everyone in Avion is happy to be there. It's not the best, sure, but in lack of a better chance, it's pretty good. The offered wages are definitely the best I ever seen, considering my chances and current experience. Nowhere would EasyJet or Ryanair offer me so much take home lol.

[FlightDetent]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/480x480/giphy_7104e2d0809c0dd1b01cc0cb71c801b69a427d48.gif

[nickler]

I'm really appaled at the comments here from supposed pilots that most likely never flew for Avion.
.
I got into Avion as Zero Time on Type Cadet (did my Type Rating on my own, then grabbed my chance and held on to it for dear life), did my line training with STELLAR LTC's, constant support from Crewing, consistent flying (I hit the 100h per month limitation and had to extend my stay in the base), and constant and considerable support from other FO's and non-LT Captains.
Everywhere I turned, I asked for help trying to get better, to improve myself as a pilot, and EVERYWHERE I would get the support I asked. Some LTC's would go out of their way to spend their days off interacting with me, making sure I was reading the correct material, the correct OM's and FCOM Chapters, and helping me become a generally better pilot and person on the cockpit.

I'm starting to see a trend here that is trying to shove Avion away for a sh** airline for the simple reason that they are an ACMI.

These guys are taking advantage of all these so called flag carriers, with their ridiculous standards required to even apply (like Air France requiring ICAO French 6... Just so they can say "hey, we hire anybody!" when realistically only french people will have that type of French level), and the fact that these same airlines are offering sh** wages to experienced pilots, wages that should only apply to cadets and only for the first year, if even that much.
I have better terms and conditions than all Lowcosts, which are the realistic entry points for any low hour pilots.
I have my free crew meals at my disposal and free drinks whenever I want on the cockpit (RYR and EZY you have to pay for those).
Everyone is extremely competent, from Office Workers, to maintenance, to cabin crew and then flight crew.
The bad weeds are plucked fast and efficiently, to be retrained, or terminated in case they refuse to change.

During rotation periods, almost everything is paid for. Some bases, EVERYTHING is paid for. That means, on top of a VERY good salary, you're still saving money by not having to rent an apartment or book a hotel. Breakfast is paid for (on some bases, lunch and dinner too). Transport from the hotel to the airport is paid for and ALWAYS on time, if the hotel is too far away.
Flights from your home to the base and back home are paid for, with hold luggage included.

My trips and schedule are all efficiently taken care of. It's not perfect, but they're human, and I can't expect perfection.
Nothing a quick chat with them won't solve, should I have any issues or questions.

What's there not to like?
I've met some people here that got in via Eaglejet or BAA or whatever broker they got through, and I couldn't care less where they come from. Even if I paid 20K to get in, this money is recouped in less than a year due to wages and the amount of money we save by having everything paid for.
My T&C's aren't changing, and they're better than what I've been offered so far:
-Marabu offered 1200€ per month before taxes and considering 60h flown per month) :D
-Condor offer was similar to Marabu. :D
-Wizzair is still offering 1400€ per month after taxes but already including perdiems. :ugh:
-AFAIK, Eurowings will only upgrade your wage after 1 year with them. Before that, you're stuck with 1500€ or 1600€. But I never got a direct offer because I refuse to pay to travel for their ridiculous selection process, so I'm not holding on this one.

The only thing Avion does is to dock your wage before you finish line training. In my case, I was earning 1000€ per month. AND I started getting paid from the first day of OCC. Meaning, if it took 2 months to start LIFUS, I wouldn't be drying out in the sun. After you do that and you get 100h flown with them, you're upgraded to FO salary, which is considerable. Base 3000€ during winter and base 5500€ during summer. Sure, we get low BH pay, but at least now I'm sitting in front of my computer doing jack sh*t and earning a comfortable 100€ per day just by existing and being hired by them.

I'm sorry but there's a reason almost everyone in Avion is happy to be there. It's not the best, sure, but in lack of a better chance, it's pretty good. The offered wages are definitely the best I ever seen, considering my chances and current experience. Nowhere would EasyJet or Ryanair offer me so much take home lol.

Ryanair or easyjet would offer You a legal national contract where you are considered an employee with taxes and social security paid. Many other airlines would do the same.
Are you aware of the fact that you are not employed by Avion, but you are instead contracted by some agencies based in some tax heavens which in turn send you to work for their client like Avion for instance?
Are You aware of the fact that your “very good salary” is gross? Today you’re probably a 20-something y.o. just starting to get some money in the bank so your tax office won’t bother too much. Try that in your 40s and 50s with houses and stuff under your name and see how you get away with a gross salary.

[Ragneir]

Ryanair or easyjet would offer You a legal national contract where you are considered an employee with taxes and social security paid. Many other airlines would do the same.
Are you aware of the fact that you are not employed by Avion, but you are instead contracted by some agencies based in some tax heavens which in turn send you to work for their client like Avion for instance?
Are You aware of the fact that your “very good salary” is gross? Today you’re probably a 20-something y.o. just starting to get some money in the bank so your tax office won’t bother too much. Try that in your 40s and 50s with houses and stuff under your name and see how you get away with a gross salary.

My very good salary is gross and it's up to me to deduct it correctly in my country, via my own established company for this exact purpose, that gives me very good tax rates if I do everything correctly.

It's not 100%, but I'm keeping close to 90%.

Also I'm not sure why you get age in the argument. Avion has captains of all ages and most of them are more than happy to keep this arrangement.

Maybe even if it's through an agency, we have more security than some flag carriers. Because while these so called airlines are trying to scrape the barrel with hilariously bad wages, there's a certain type of company that'll pick their slack, and it'll be happy to do it forever.
That type of company is Avion. I mean, it's not surprising that they doubled their fleet in 2 years, and are expecting another 15 aircraft in 2024, or is it?

​​​​​​Once again not defending avion in particular, I just find it amusing that people are bashing companies just for the sake of it.
I've witnessed more dangerous behaviours on flag carriers and low costs than I've ever witnessed in avion, at least until now.

[nickler]

My very good salary is gross and it's up to me to deduct it correctly in my country, via my own established company for this exact purpose, that gives me very good tax rates if I do everything correctly.

It's not 100%, but I'm keeping close to 90%.

Also I'm not sure why you get age in the argument. Avion has captains of all ages and most of them are more than happy to keep this arrangement.

Maybe even if it's through an agency, we have more security than some flag carriers. Because while these so called airlines are trying to scrape the barrel with hilariously bad wages, there's a certain type of company that'll pick their slack, and it'll be happy to do it forever.
That type of company is Avion. I mean, it's not surprising that they doubled their fleet in 2 years, and are expecting another 15 aircraft in 2024, or is it?

​​​​​​Once again not defending avion in particular, I just find it amusing that people are bashing companies just for the sake of it.
I've witnessed more dangerous behaviours on flag carriers and low costs than I've ever witnessed in avion, at least until now.

The point is You shouldn’t be establishing your own company to be an airline pilot and pay taxes. You should have a regular employee contract. If someone then wishes to become an entrepreneur then by all means they can go ahead and start their own company/business but that shouldn’t be needed just to work a regular employee job. The above mentioned way of operating from those kind of airlines allows them to have much much lower fixed costs therefore getting loads of commissions from legacies and LCC for peak periods. All of this is also possibile thanks to a very flexible fiscal regime in some Eastern European countries.
I don’t know where you are from, but you probably started an LLC where you cash your salary. In order to keep 90% of you earnings in the majority of Central European countries you need a lot of imagination when filling up the tax declaration at the end of the year. Thrust me I tried it, and where I come from (if you want to be 100% clean) you’re ending up with 60% of your hard earned cash.
I have no doubts this gig suits you since you made your arrangements.
Point is if they played a different game, I.e. offer direct contracts, then I would be very curious to witness the same huge expansion.

[TheEdge]

My very good salary is gross and it's up to me to deduct it correctly in my country, via my own established company for this exact purpose, that gives me very good tax rates if I do everything correctly.

It's not 100%, but I'm keeping close to 90%.

Also I'm not sure why you get age in the argument. Avion has captains of all ages and most of them are more than happy to keep this arrangement.

Maybe even if it's through an agency, we have more security than some flag carriers. Because while these so called airlines are trying to scrape the barrel with hilariously bad wages, there's a certain type of company that'll pick their slack, and it'll be happy to do it forever.
That type of company is Avion. I mean, it's not surprising that they doubled their fleet in 2 years, and are expecting another 15 aircraft in 2024, or is it?

​​​​​​Once again not defending avion in particular, I just find it amusing that people are bashing companies just for the sake of it.
I've witnessed more dangerous behaviours on flag carriers and low costs than I've ever witnessed in avion, at least until now.

That is the perfect meat for bottom feeder baltic scam companies like the ones mentioned above.
Good luck ... the worst of Heston and dumblynx, that couldnt find a job anywhere else is now in avion... captains fired because orbiting below MSA in Nigeria in IMC, or the famous capt that did a go around from 6ft in CDG, and few other professionals are all there now.
People is advised, those companies are just dangerous organizations, with an accident waiting to happen.

[nickler]

Guys, if I may… let’s keep the discussion within the T&C. I do know for a fact there are many talented professionals working in ACMIs as there are in every airline. The point is what you sign up for and how this drives the industry.

[Ragneir]

That is the perfect meat for bottom feeder baltic scam companies like the ones mentioned above.
Good luck ... the worst of Heston and dumblynx, that couldnt find a job anywhere else is now in avion... captains fired because orbiting below MSA in Nigeria in IMC, or the famous capt that did a go around from 6ft in CDG, and few other professionals are all there now.
People is advised, those companies are just dangerous organizations, with an accident waiting to happen.

The T&C of Avion are good enough if you don't mind them. They pay well, you're treated well, you end up saving a bunch of money. Not sure what this scam you're talking about is. I'm not being paid with monopoly money.

Good luck ... the worst of Heston and dumblynx, that couldnt find a job anywhere else is now in avion... captains fired because orbiting below MSA in Nigeria in IMC, or the famous capt that did a go around from 6ft in CDG, and few other professionals are all there now.
People is advised, those companies are just dangerous organizations, with an accident waiting to happen.

If you want to go that way, there's many companies, flag carries even, out there with captains with severe incidents and even fatal accidents. Some of those captains would still be around if they miraculously had survived the accidents they caused.
All airlines are companies with accidents waiting to happen. It's a byproduct of aviation and flying.
But when it comes to our own training and all the stops put in place to stop these accidents, I'd say that Avion is doing a pretty good job.

​​​​​​​or the famous capt that did a go around from 6ft in CDG

Yep, I chalk this up with french ATC being french ATC. If you read the report about this one (extensively studied in Avion since it was one of our airplanes), you'd know that this was 90% caused by ATC being unable to speak correct english, and because french ATC has this stupid habit of speaking french in comms with other french people. So he gave the correct QNH to a french pilot, but kept giving the incorrect QNH to the foreign pilots. Maybe if they had some training that'd say "ENGLISH ONLY, FRENCH ONLY IN ABSOLUTE EMERGENCY" this wouldn't have happened. He even forgot to switch on the PAPIs on the runway lol.

I'd say maybe educate yourself before coming out here spewing stupidity. Because with that attitude, for you most flag carriers should be in a lower level than Avion, considering many of them had fatal accidents already, some due to gross negligence.

[Potatos_69]

I'm really appaled at the comments here from supposed pilots that most likely never flew for Avion.
.
I got into Avion as Zero Time on Type Cadet (did my Type Rating on my own, then grabbed my chance and held on to it for dear life), did my line training with STELLAR LTC's, constant support from Crewing, consistent flying (I hit the 100h per month limitation and had to extend my stay in the base), and constant and considerable support from other FO's and non-LT Captains.
Everywhere I turned, I asked for help trying to get better, to improve myself as a pilot, and EVERYWHERE I would get the support I asked. Some LTC's would go out of their way to spend their days off interacting with me, making sure I was reading the correct material, the correct OM's and FCOM Chapters, and helping me become a generally better pilot and person on the cockpit.

I'm starting to see a trend here that is trying to shove Avion away for a sh** airline for the simple reason that they are an ACMI.

These guys are taking advantage of all these so called flag carriers, with their ridiculous standards required to even apply (like Air France requiring ICAO French 6... Just so they can say "hey, we hire anybody!" when realistically only french people will have that type of French level), and the fact that these same airlines are offering sh** wages to experienced pilots, wages that should only apply to cadets and only for the first year, if even that much.
I have better terms and conditions than all Lowcosts, which are the realistic entry points for any low hour pilots.
I have my free crew meals at my disposal and free drinks whenever I want on the cockpit (RYR and EZY you have to pay for those).
Everyone is extremely competent, from Office Workers, to maintenance, to cabin crew and then flight crew.
The bad weeds are plucked fast and efficiently, to be retrained, or terminated in case they refuse to change.

During rotation periods, almost everything is paid for. Some bases, EVERYTHING is paid for. That means, on top of a VERY good salary, you're still saving money by not having to rent an apartment or book a hotel. Breakfast is paid for (on some bases, lunch and dinner too). Transport from the hotel to the airport is paid for and ALWAYS on time, if the hotel is too far away.
Flights from your home to the base and back home are paid for, with hold luggage included.

My trips and schedule are all efficiently taken care of. It's not perfect, but they're human, and I can't expect perfection.
Nothing a quick chat with them won't solve, should I have any issues or questions.

What's there not to like?
I've met some people here that got in via Eaglejet or BAA or whatever broker they got through, and I couldn't care less where they come from. Even if I paid 20K to get in, this money is recouped in less than a year due to wages and the amount of money we save by having everything paid for.
My T&C's aren't changing, and they're better than what I've been offered so far:
-Marabu offered 1200€ per month before taxes and considering 60h flown per month) :D
-Condor offer was similar to Marabu. :D
-Wizzair is still offering 1400€ per month after taxes but already including perdiems. :ugh:
-AFAIK, Eurowings will only upgrade your wage after 1 year with them. Before that, you're stuck with 1500€ or 1600€. But I never got a direct offer because I refuse to pay to travel for their ridiculous selection process, so I'm not holding on this one.

The only thing Avion does is to dock your wage before you finish line training. In my case, I was earning 1000€ per month. AND I started getting paid from the first day of OCC. Meaning, if it took 2 months to start LIFUS, I wouldn't be drying out in the sun. After you do that and you get 100h flown with them, you're upgraded to FO salary, which is considerable. Base 3000€ during winter and base 5500€ during summer. Sure, we get low BH pay, but at least now I'm sitting in front of my computer doing jack sh*t and earning a comfortable 100€ per day just by existing and being hired by them.

I'm sorry but there's a reason almost everyone in Avion is happy to be there. It's not the best, sure, but in lack of a better chance, it's pretty good. The offered wages are definitely the best I ever seen, considering my chances and current experience. Nowhere would EasyJet or Ryanair offer me so much take home lol.

See, now we know you are full of it.

Wizz will pay you more than double what you are saying. As a brand new cadet you will be taking home after taxes 3k or more per month depending on how much you work, and you will be having your taxes and soc security paid properly, not by doing the dodgy company self employment crap that drops wages. RYR will pay you a little more than wizz, and EZY will pay you more than both generally.

I mean I did some OOB stuff with Wizz when I was there and I was pulling in 9k per month gross (about 6k net) as an FO after proper taxes paid etc.

[Ragneir]

See, now we know you are full of it.

Wizz will pay you more than double what you are saying. As a brand new cadet you will be taking home after taxes 3k or more per month depending on how much you work, and you will be having your taxes and soc security paid properly, not by doing the dodgy company self employment crap that drops wages. RYR will pay you a little more than wizz, and EZY will pay you more than both generally.

I mean I did some OOB stuff with Wizz when I was there and I was pulling in 9k per month gross (about 6k net) as an FO after proper taxes paid etc.

Funny. Not only their base is 800-1000€, their perdiems are awful. And over that, they still have their stupid multiplier depending on the base you are. So using their arbritrary scale and scope of living, you might even be getting less than what they offer.
It's also funny you're talking about those wages when both me and a few others from Avion were invited for Wizzair and got offered exactly what I mentioned.
No, I'm not full of it. Just feels like people all around are jelly from not taking from Avion's pie when it's hot. It's no surprise Wizzair is the worst paying company in Europe.

[Potatos_69]

Funny. Not only their base is 800-1000€, their perdiems are awful. And over that, they still have their stupid multiplier depending on the base you are. So using their arbritrary scale and scope of living, you might even be getting less than what they offer.
It's also funny you're talking about those wages when both me and a few others from Avion were invited for Wizzair and got offered exactly what I mentioned.
No, I'm not full of it. Just feels like people all around are jelly from not taking from Avion's pie when it's hot. It's no surprise Wizzair is the worst paying company in Europe.

I worked in a variety of bases with them, and while I hold no love for the company, your statements are just flat out wrong. Starting out with wizzair you will be getting 1400 per month to be trained (so approximately 8 weeks for your TR and then 1-2 months for your line training to be completed) after that your salary based on average KM will be about 4-4.3k per month (-415 if you got them to type rate you) and after tax it works out at about 3k per month with full social security coverage etc. 1500 hours later you’re earning +500-800 per month.

No one is jealous of not working for Avion, it’s a bad company that actively works to reduce the salaries of European pilots to make more profits for themselves.

[BTMS_OVHT]

Funny. Not only their base is 800-1000€, their perdiems are awful. And over that, they still have their stupid multiplier depending on the base you are. So using their arbritrary scale and scope of living, you might even be getting less than what they offer.
It's also funny you're talking about those wages when both me and a few others from Avion were invited for Wizzair and got offered exactly what I mentioned.
No, I'm not full of it. Just feels like people all around are jelly from not taking from Avion's pie when it's hot. It's no surprise Wizzair is the worst paying company in Europe.
at the end of the day, money might not be the dealbraker here. For a lot of pilots in mid thirties having a family a thousand euro on the top of the salary is not worth to be away from family for 20-30 days.. it is not surprising then when some insta youngster writes about the good deal making 1000 EUR gross on the top of the salary selling a whole week off days to the avion.. Simply this is the easiest way how to burn-out and loose the family, kids and at the end of the day ruin your life....

[nickler]

Funny. Not only their base is 800-1000€, their perdiems are awful. And over that, they still have their stupid multiplier depending on the base you are. So using their arbritrary scale and scope of living, you might even be getting less than what they offer.
It's also funny you're talking about those wages when both me and a few others from Avion were invited for Wizzair and got offered exactly what I mentioned.
No, I'm not full of it. Just feels like people all around are jelly from not taking from Avion's pie when it's hot. It's no surprise Wizzair is the worst paying company in Europe.

In Wizzair I get paid a net salary after taxes and social security, and don't have to constantly find a way with my accountants to scratch some extra expenses in order to issue an extra invoice for my LLC so that I can pay less income taxes.
Also I am not spending 20 days in a row (at least) every month away from home in airport hotels, getting crappy (cheap) rooms above the lobby bar and right next to the 20 y.o. cabin crew room where the party goes on till 4 am, eating airport food or room service. I am home every night, sleep in my bed and bring my own food to work and eat lunch/dinner at home.
Horses for courses.

[FlightDetent]

youngster writes about the good deal making 1000 EUR gross on the top of the salary selling a whole week off days to the avion.. Simply this is the easiest way how to burn-out and loose the family, kids and at the end of the day ruin your life....You got me confused there. What I saw was a WIZZ aficionado telling us about a captain-like (or above, considering both EW-EU and RYR-PL+ operations) salary thanks to Out-of-Base, not an Avion fanboy (of which I haven't seen any here).

Now, at the same time, a person in the Insta phase of development (*) is probably below 27, single and deep in training debt - how is that a less worthy choice of involvement?
+ See another city and country
+ Experience a different base environment and route structure
+ Yield to a different pack of LTIs
+ Learn yet another set of taxation responsibilities
+ Enlarge the pond of prospective life-partners
+ Reduce the financial burden faster
+ Walk the full mile while young, and get ready to make well-informed choices later.

Sayin' here, as long as we are honest to ourselves, there is no such thing as a despicable choice.

In case the GIF above don't display, I found Ragneir first post refreshing, glass-more-than-half-full, pure, and healthy. That part of my social bubble with personal experience with the baltic ACMI operators (having completed 4 seasons of under LY CAA myself) concurs that Lynx is for people choosing more money, less free days and bigger promises, whereas AVX is the moderately happy choice from the available set.

BTW, did the quoting netiquette fell victim to NCoV-19 as well?

* = previous generations don't get a pass just because there was no Insta decades ago

[Ragneir]

airport hotels, getting crappy (cheap) rooms above the lobby bar and right next to the 20 y.o. cabin crew room where the party goes on till 4 am, eating airport food or room service. I am home every night, sleep in my bed and bring my own food to work and eat lunch/dinner at home.
Horses for courses.

I didn't know Hilton, Best Western, Mariott have crappy (cheap) rooms. But hey, I guess nothing can get to your standards.

And once again, I'm not fanboying for Avion. They're just a company which I'm taking full advantage of. It's going to be pretty nice trying to apply to other companies with something like 1000 hours and one of my fun facts will be "I already operated in 5 out of 6 continents".
Sure not everyone likes commuting contracts, and I miss my dog and my family a lot, BUT I LIKE IT HERE. Because whenever I'm home I am on full vacation mode until the next rotation (every 2 works days gives us 1 off day).
As I said, I just find it funny that people are bashing a company that has had exponential growth the last 3 years and they are going to grow even further this year. Sure, we're contractors, but even Ryanair has contractors.
I dont mind paying something like 200€ per month to an accountant to tell me how I should present my expenses.
Sure, they cheap out on some stuff, but most of that stuff is pretty much invisible and untouchable to the crew. Don't forget that Avion supplies crew and planes, the rest is given by the client. And Avion has certain minimum demands (which are quite high) that the client must meet.

As I said, Germany hotels are all 4* and up. Super comfortable, good cleaning, great breakfast.
I'm in Chile right now, Best Western Premier and I have a nice view out of my room, daily cleaning, breakfast is great aswell, and the city is amazing to visit - Yes, because since we're here for a bunch of days, we get to see cities I've never ever planned on visiting.
In Antalya, Turkey it was a bit worse. However, everything was paid for, so if I didn't want to, I wouldn't have to spend any money living there.
The Resort was meh (it's Turkey), however the food was nutritive enough to maintain a good diet. Location could be better and the rooms were comfortable (mine was just missing a comfortable chair). People complained, and for the next season we'll have a different location.
In Mexico we're lodged in NH Monterrey La Fe in case of MTY base. Is that a cheap crappy hotel? It really doesn't look like it.

I could go on. As I said, my question to you would be, have you been in Avion and flew here or are you just spewing crap for no reason? It's not a perfect company, but from what I read I expected utter crap when I first joined, and have so far been pleasantly surprised.

[pilotbekesi]

Hello there,

I am about to do the assessment for avion. I am f/o with 1000 hrs on type. Any heads up?
Thank you!

[martinmn]

Is anybody waiting for the online assessment (1st stage)? Looking for feedback on the technical part if someone can help! I am NTR.
Hey I have it in two weeks and would like to know about it and the sim assessment. Heard its all ATPL question bank.

[macdo]

I didn't know Hilton, Best Western, Mariott have crappy (cheap) rooms. But hey, I guess nothing can get to your standards.


This did make me chuckle. After 20 odd years of airline hotel rooms I've had everything from seaview suites to mould infested ruins. Sometimes it is just bad luck. Often it is the airline intention to save a $ or so. The trouble here is that a constant tension over hotac really lowers morale. A consistent and fair hotac policy would be a key feature if I was looking to join an airline with a lot of away stays.
As for Hilton etc., they sure do all have crappy crew rooms, particularly at airport hotels. My memory of sticky carpets and very suspect kettles at the Hilton LGW haunts my dreams!:sad:

[Ragneir]

This did make me chuckle. After 20 odd years of airline hotel rooms I've had everything from seaview suites to mould infested ruins. Sometimes it is just bad luck. Often it is the airline intention to save a $ or so. The trouble here is that a constant tension over hotac really lowers morale. A consistent and fair hotac policy would be a key feature if I was looking to join an airline with a lot of away stays.
As for Hilton etc., they sure do all have crappy crew rooms, particularly at airport hotels. My memory of sticky carpets and very suspect kettles at the Hilton LGW haunts my dreams!:sad:


The good thing is, avion does cheap out on some things, like any airline, but they don't pay for the hotels. The client airline does, and they enforce certain standards.

As I said, I spent my time in Best Western Premier in Santiago de Chile and I was extremely comfortable, just like everyone else. The breakfast got old midway, but that's just a negative point of living in a hotel.

I did 2 layovers, one in Buenos Aires in the NH Buenos Aires, and another layover in Rio, staying in Hilton Copacabana.

If you're so annoyed at this why are you still here? Because I know anything I say won't be anough for whatever gatekeeping standards you have.
People are here happy, some come and some go. Some want to leave and others want to stay. The airline has lots of things working almost flawlessly, and other things working less well.

I'm just sharing my experience, which so far has been pretty good. If you don't like this type of flying, just go somewhere and talk there? Aren't there any threads for BA or Lufthansa or something?

[wa320]

Guys, like many I`m thinking to move from pink ulcc to avion. Pros are well known - money obviously (2-2,5k net vs 5,5-6 makes difference). Cons, a bit as well.
However, how looks command upgrade in Avion? In my pink company I found it as a biggest advantage, 3000h and you go LHS ( even some plans to command with 2500h). I wouldn`t like to be happy with 6000 eur, and no perspective for command.

[uberfly]

Guys, like many I`m thinking to move from pink ulcc to avion. Pros are well known - money obviously (2-2,5k net vs 5,5-6 makes difference). Cons, a bit as well.
However, how looks command upgrade in Avion? In my pink company I found it as a biggest advantage, 3000h and you go LHS ( even some plans to command with 2500h). I wouldn`t like to be happy with 6000 eur, and no perspective for command.

Does anybody get 2,5 net in Wizz except cadets? 6000 in Avion is gross, check the tax rules where you are tax resident to estimate your net income.

[wa320]

Does anybody get 2,5 net in Wizz except cadets? 6000 in Avion is gross, check the tax rules where you are tax resident to estimate your net income.
Sure, cadets only. First pay rise with 1500h (factorized), which means ~2 years of **** salary. Especially when based in some strange place so minus additional costs of hotels, apartments, car, you name it. Hotac in avion is pretty tempting.

[tiredofwalking]

to be fair the average gross is just above 5000 per month in avion express for a FO (if you count 500 BH and including the loyalty bonus).
When I looked at the last commercial from wizzair on linkedin it looks a bit the same (for example in Italy gross salary for FO varies from 4100 to 6100).
I'd say it boils down to which kind of life you prefer as command upgrade is also 3000BH and two OPC in Avion Express

[Wonderpilot]

Hello I have been invited to do type rating with baa training por Avion express with Cade program, I have read lot of bad stuffs here. Is it sure after passing all the exam to start flying with Avion express? It’s 35.000 too much money to lose. Thanks

[macdo]

If you're so annoyed at this why are you still here? Because I know anything I say won't be anough for whatever gatekeeping standards you have.
People are here happy, some come and some go. Some want to leave and others want to stay. The airline has lots of things working almost flawlessly, and other things working less well.

I'm just sharing my experience, which so far has been pretty good. If you don't like this type of flying, just go somewhere and talk there? Aren't there any threads for BA or Lufthansa or something?

I think you need to chill out a bit.
I was amused by your comment not critical of it.
The take away point I was making was that the effects of poor hotels (and other niggling T&C's) tend to de-motivate flight crews and if you have a choice, work for someone who doesn't skimp on crew welfare.
Thankfully, this is all behind me now, so enjoy your Best Western, I will be waking in my own bed tomorrow.

[Ragneir]

I think you need to chill out a bit.
I was amused by your comment not critical of it.
The take away point I was making was that the effects of poor hotels (and other niggling T&C's) tend to de-motivate flight crews and if you have a choice, work for someone who doesn't skimp on crew welfare.
Thankfully, this is all behind me now, so enjoy your Best Western, I will be waking in my own bed tomorrow.

I was also thinking you were another commenter. So I was already "attacking" because I was getting fed up of constant bashing for absolutely no reason.

As I said, the type of contract is pretty good if you value money over being 100% comfortable.
The hotels are nice since as I said, it's the clients that pay for them. When we complain about something missing, new hotels are made available and crews are moved there.
Sure, I wouldn't mind sleeping at home, being with my dog, my fiancee and such. However, this also allows me to being in full vacation mode whenever I come back home.
I actually like this type of work. As with everything, it comes with pros and cons. I'll eventually change, but before that maybe I try to get my fiancee to join me. Would make it much more enjoyable.
The money is too good to pass on, and right now I haven't seen any offer come remotely close to what Avion offers.

[dirk85]

As long as you dont care about taxes, social security and any form of protection given by a regular work contract

[dirk85]

https://youtu.be/cf8Fao0kZ-4

[TheEdge]

Pay2Fly at its finest, with lithuanian incompetent PIC at controls...good luck in having this bottom-feeder on your CV guys.
Social junk someone said few years ago.

[RudderTrimZero]

My guess. A training flight with a cadet on board. That's a 15kt crosswind landing, so my guess is cadet didn't follow through with enough rudder post rollout, applied late or worse pressed the wrong pedal. This same attitude you hear on the frequency is what resulted in a SmartWings 737 flying single engine for almost 90 minutes over Europe. Men of steel out there. Nothing can be done to break their steely resolve.

[Richard_]

anyone know if they accept UK passport holders or just EU personals

[VeronicaM]

My guess. A training flight with a cadet on board. That's a 15kt crosswind landing, so my guess is cadet didn't follow through with enough rudder post rollout, applied late or worse pressed the wrong pedal. This same attitude you hear on the frequency is what resulted in a SmartWings 737 flying single engine for almost 90 minutes over Europe. Men of steel out there. Nothing can be done to break their steely resolve.
If you don't know anything, try to be quiet you will avoid embarrassing yourself. This is aviation we don't guess.

[TBSC]

It's not aviation, it's a rumour network.

[sekiryuutei]

Hello I have been invited to do type rating with baa training por Avion express with Cade program, I have read lot of bad stuffs here. Is it sure after passing all the exam to start flying with Avion express? It’s 35.000 too much money to lose. Thanks

Hi guys, same question here.

Additionally, has anyone passed the assessments for Avion Express' cadets recently? Would love some feedback especially regarding the simulator scenario. Thanks!

[Flygian8]

Hi guys, I am a TR cadet and going to prepare the sim screening for AE in Paris on April 2. If there is anyone interested, please contact me or reply to this message and i'll give you all the details.