Goldwings Warsaw - Feedback

[EPWW]

Hello Board,

I am writing this to warn everyone about the scandalous treatment I have got during and after my training with Goldwings Flight Academy (http://goldwings.pl) in Poland. FTOs based here use to have good reputation, the economical conditions are favorable, weather is acceptable etc. However not all schools are the same.

Goldwings FA is based on EPBC / Babice airfield pretty much in the city limits of Warsaw - the capital city of Poland. It is run by Arkadiusz Jesionek, who is a Head of Training there, together with his spouse Malgorzata Goralska (Head of Ground Administration and Head of Ground Traning).

I have done my PPL and ATPL theory through this school. All started with signing a standard PPL contract, like everywhere else in EU. The agreement included 5hrs of training on c172 and the rest was supposed to be done on the c152. My training finished successfully with 63hrs TT. Obviously, I have been charged for the additional hours, but there haven't been any flights done on the c172. Finally, after my multiple asking for any kind of correction to the invoice I was given a reply from the HoT himself that there was nothing to correct and that the case is over now.

The FTO's bureau is disorganized and the guy running it has been personally booking my training slots every time. Never have I had a chance to verify the roster for the upcoming week or to look back and see former dates. Finally I have had my student e-account set up about a year later, when it was needed for me to book my refreshment flight. BTW, that flight has not taken place anyway, as the instructor responsible for it (Mrs Goralska) left the school earlier that day without informing her own employees about the open slot. I have basically traveled on Friday afternoon to the airfield just to hear from the staff that "she has left and is not coming back any more".

Another sample from the PPL training (there are more, believe me) - my instructor and I have been waiting for the plane returning from a solo flight. All right, the plane got back, all checks and paperwork done, we start up, taxi to the holding point, do the ignition checks and the engine is running rough. After several attempts we had to head back, the reason - fouled spark plugs. Plane will be ready on the following morning. About half an hour later the Head of Training has been joking, suggesting publicly my wrong handling of the engine during taxiing.

My student folder, including the training roster and flight records has never been shown to me. After ending my training I have asked for accessing it to log down my own flights. The folder became "temporarily unavailable" and remained like that until today. The newest explanation I've got from the HoT is - "we do not feel obliged to grant you access to your folder Sir after the completion of your training".


ATPL Theory
This course was starting at the end of the same year. We were supposed to receive the Bristol GS DVDs after wiring the money. That almost worked out :) after payment I was told to wait - the school did not have the materials in stock although they have been promising something else before. Finally, after getting them, it turned out the materials couldn't be shipped with a tracked delivery. It didn't matter, if you're leaving abroad or in the next town down the road, they just could not. The reason - the staff does not have time to visit the drop off shop. The only possibility was to come and pick it up by yourself. Eventually I've managed to organize my friends leaving in Warsaw to come over and do that for me and even that has been coldly agreed to.

After completing the brush-up course we have been handed out a list of essay topics, after which our exam clearances would have been issued. The list came up with a delay, but checking of the essay works took two months more! Finally, after 75 days from the brush up ending I was cleared for my exams with the FAA.


If you're ever considering a school in Poland, I recommend to think twice before ending in my shoes. Poland is a great area for training and there are at least several of good training centres there, but Goldwings Flight Academy (http://goldwings.pl) definately doesn't count amongst them!

[kilomike_19]

Maybe this is the start of an awful thread like the Ventum Air one?...

EPWW Thanks for the info, apparently Eastern Europe is the worst place to do your flight training...

[parkfell]

I think the moral of this story is that you fully research the ATO before you part with your hard earned cash. You speak to previous customers, and most importantly you visit all those ATOs on your short list.

Just looking at their fleet, a handful of SEP, and only ONE MEP. I think this might tell you that there is no redundancy if the Seneca goes tech?

I just wonder how many full time staff members they have.

So the attraction to the unsuspecting inexperienced customer, is the smooth sales patter, and an attractive price.

As for not being able to see your training records, I am having difficulty "joining up the dots".........

[MrPilott]

My friend had similar experience with Goldwings and he didn't continue his training there. He immediately left the school after he got his PPL. They have become same as ventum air. They only care about taking your money and their flight training is definitely not professional

[aommi]

I must agree with above, avoid this place. They seem really attractive and promising at the beginning, but don't get fooled, been there done that.

[Griffon_PMI]

apparently Eastern Europe is the worst place to do your flight training...

Yeah... for sure blame half of the continent for one school.....

[Lokki]

Sounds a tad bit racist too.. The same argument was used against Spanish schools. Yet the airlines have no issue hiring Pilots trained at Eastern European or Spanish schools..

[RedBullGaveMeWings]

Maybe this is the start of an awful thread like the Ventum Air one?...

EPWW Thanks for the info, apparently Eastern Europe is the worst place to do your flight training...We should all train in the UK, huh?:hmm:

[LauraTahvanainen01]

I don`t recommend this flight academy to anyone. Just a waste of time. Instructor did not teach properly, wanted to benefit my money. Instructor also falsified my lesson information in school training log website. As soon as I informed school management about problems in my training, I was kicked out from the school training log website. And after that the school management was not available for contact. After termination of contract, I did not get my certificate of flied hours and the right amount of money back.

[KT1988]

I will not comment upon what the thread starter have written (I was not there in 2016 and the fleet is much bigger today, planes are waiting for students at least SEPs) other than the school got a free atmosphere (maybe very stiff people will not like it) and joking is common and never meant in bad faith. I have been at the school since January 2018 and I have never seen anyone being unhappy except for one foreign student who probably expected to finish the PPL(A) course within 45 mandatory hours and probably did not understand it depends on how quickly the student can learn to fly. The student was angry because the school did not let him fly solo cross country when having to land on a difficult grass runway (students and hour builders could go for 5 days to Kikity when airspace above EPBC was closed, there are also some trips there for those who wish to learn more difficult landings etc.) and that the instructor took over the controls during the landing. He got actually lessons with the best instructor (in my opinion) who lets you do almost every possible mistake just not crash the aircraft and I did actually happen to see it (I was going on a trip with AT3 to experience the new aircraft) from the "holding point" that the plane was almost in the flare far to the left outside of the runway when the instructor had to take over.

Other than the case described above I have not met unsatisfied students at Goldwings, only some frustrated ones who did not put an effort into learning the theory. Since there is a theory check both before first solo traffic pattern and before first solo cross country flight but I believe everyone I met understood that knowing the emergency procedures or other theory relevant to practical flying is for their own benefit and safety. I also have to add I did not meet absolutely every student at the school but everyone get to hear about it if someone was really unsatisfied and not just frustrated about being asked some hard but relevant questions.

As for the flight training it is up to everyone how fast he/she can progress and EPBC got an extended traffic pattern that takes 9 minutes to complete and it is a well known fact, so when requiring more flight training it is because of individual progress and for most people (including me when I was doing my PPL(A) ) learning to land is what takes most extra time beyond the mandatory 45 hours. The instructors have absolutely no personal interest in saying someone makes mistakes and notes in the system are for the other instructors to know what the student need to work more with. It is also possible to change instructors if someone do not like a particular instructor and no reason have to be given for the first change. The instructor can not say that the student fly well if it is not the case because before the solo flight another instructor have to perform an exam before the solo flight and he will not pass a student who might crash the plane it is the instructors responsibility and no one is taking a risk because someone is in a hurry and do not wish to use more time if he/she need it.

Goldwings Flight Academy is a school that require certain theoretical knowledge that require from the student to spend time learning, it also does not take chances with safety so people have to learn to fly before they can fly solo and they have to pass one exercise before they can move to more demanding exercises. It is for the benefit of the student and of course there have been students who learned extremely quickly and finished inside the mandatory 45 hours, one even did his whole PPL(A) training and passed the CAA exam in one month recently in March. It is up to the student how fast he/she learns to fly. No instructor can be a magician making the student learn quicker than the student can learn, or can magically make the student learn for example the procedures, communication or the symbols on the map if the student do not memorize them on his/her own. The instructor can explain and will explain but the student have to memorize him/herself.

[inabw]

Hello aviators, is there anyone recently completed the cpl ir mep with this flight school ? Any feedback is really appreciated

[KT1988]

I am a student at this school since January 2018 on the 0-ATPL+FI program, I have done my PPL(A), hour building and currently I am passing my ATPL(A) exams aiming to get done in June. So I can not tell you much about the MEP(L)+IR/ME+CPL(A) program other than there is Piper III Seneca and DA-42 available for the MEP part (you are free too choose) and that the instructors are very good almost all of them airline pilots and even airline captains instructing in their free time. The sim for IR and pre MEP(L) training is DA-42 FNTP II. For the planned MCC/JOC there is Airbus 320 sim. For the CPL(A) SEP you have Cessna 172s and AT-3s available and you are free to choose which aircraft you prefer. The AT-3 got glass cockpit, the Cessnas have not but according to me its bigger more comfortable and more easy/stable to fly. There is no waiting time on SEP as for MEP there may sometimes be short waiting times when the DA-42 is at maintenance (no longer than a week).

Other than that the school got a very free and friendly atmosphere and people like to joke etc. so you have to see if you like it (it may not be perfect for very "stiff" persons). Also the school require certain level of theory knowledge from the students so you have to do your homework and learn what you need to learn if you do not learn your theory your lesson might even be postponed (happens very seldom only if someone does not have a clue about what is going to be done in the exercise). The same goes for flying if you wish to get done inside the mandatory time given by CAA you need a steep learning curve. The instructors are very helpful in explaining anything you wish but it is up to you how fast you progress the school require a certain level of performance and it is not being lowered because someone wish to be done quickly or do not wish to redo a failed exercise. You are also free to once change the instructor without giving any reason for it.

[JakubEGSC]

Thanks KT1988 for the report.

Any CPL ME IR students on here please?

cheers,
j

[KT1988]

@inabw: Did you send a question to the school and they did not answer? That is strange, try writing to Goldwings Flight Academy on facebook there they tend to answer quickly (unless the people in administration are sick or on holiday but then normally someone else perform their task) if not feel free to write to me on facebook (Krzysztof Thor) and I will give you direct contact to the CFI and owner of the school.

[youngretired]

Thanks KT1988 for the report.

Any CPL ME IR students on here please?

cheers,
j
I am currently there for me/ir/cpl.

[flugas]

I am currently there for me/ir/cpl.
How many hours per day can you fly in average when weather is OK? Is there any issue with instructor and airplane availability for the ME-IR part?

[youngretired]

How many hours per day can you fly in average when weather is OK? Is there any issue with instructor and airplane availability for the ME-IR part?

The instructor list in their web page is %100 true information and I’ve never witnessed any problem about a missing instructor before training. They currently have two ME aircraft and I used DA42 for the MEP part. There was also a DA42 simulator session before the training starts and you’ll already know about the aircraft before the real flight training. I’ve flown three hours each day and completed training part in two days plus one day for the assessment flight and one day for the simulator. For the ME part the weather was bad last two weeks but I don’t expect it’ll make any problem for the IR part.

[fly8ma]

Hello
Everybody who consider to become Goldwings student should check out all the websites about this school. There is a lot of bad feedback about this school. Check also how this fellow KT1988 has been posting on this site, 124 times. Goldwings needs badly new students, so they probably pay this fellow to advertise their school. Most probably he is related to the director of the Goldwings academy.

[OlsAconye]

Hmm Deja vu.

[KT1988]

@fly8ma: I did only answer here because the person writing 22.05.2019 had a nick just like the name of a real student. Those on google reviews are names of people who have never ever been at the school, so its so obvious those feedback is from other schools competing about students, so no one cares to reply. And your nick, having just 1 post on the forum + the fact I can not remember any student from Bulgaria nor see any in flightlogger makes me think it is another opinion of an another flight school and not someone who have actually visited the school.

Also instead of telling others to do so do check my posts yourself, then you will see that most of them are a discussion about self employment vs. employment + questions about APS MCC programs. And just to clarify I am not related to anyone at Goldwings, and I am not employed or self employed there (in the future I will be an instructor). But building on my own experience at the school I believe in the school so I decided to join the success in October 2018. And as I wrote before I do own a Cessna 172 that fly for the school and it is no secret I write about it openly. And if you think about it then you might guess I decided to do it because the school was very good and I believe in its future and not because something was bad.

[fly8ma]

Reason persons use pseudonym is that, putting real name one gets revenge from the school and the persons who are financially related to Goldwings. Just like this fellow KT1988.

[Jolax]

I sent them an email requesting some details about their MCC course and no reply at all..

[KT1988]

@Jolax: Try writing to the school on facebook there they are replying frequently.

@fly8ma: The reason is those are not real persons but other schools trying to compete to get more students themselves. A real not satisfied student (sadly people have to put effort into their own learning) just as you saw in this thread had no problem signing with own name..... every student at Goldwings can express his/hers opinion. The only ones who do not sign with their names are those who never even visited the school most probably other schools believing in this old fashioned mud throwing. And of course not every other school does this just some of them and they managed on the Polish forum the feat that every school got mud thrown at it except for Bartolini because they are full so no point in mud throwing.

Your school will not get better because you throw mud at other schools if you lack students then try improving yours instead of throwing mud at others. And real students can sign with their names as you saw in this thread....

[LauraTahvanainen01]

I wasted all the money I used in this school, because they didn´t give me certification of flown hours. And I have asked for it many times.

I can´t transfer my flight hours without certificate, which I flew at Goldwings, to other flight school. Do you want to experience the same?

[parkfell]

Always visit any establishment before any training course.
Spend at least a day talking to the staff and just as importantly the customers (students).

Any reputable ATO will actively encourage you to speak with the customers as they are entirely confident about the product they are supplying.

If their attitude is similar to visiting North Korea then avoid it like the plague.......

[KT1988]

@parkfell: And that is why I encourage people to visit Goldwings Flight Academy or any other school in Poland personally instead of reading google reviews made by other schools with "pseudonyms". At Goldwings HQ recently anyone will meet a lot of students because some students rent rooms at the HQ for the time of their training. Plus they will meet a lot of students and instructors in the briefing room.

[2unlimited]

Another piece of advice, don't believe anything they promise you.
Regarding Google reviews, they are very unreliable, also the good ones.
It seems many posting on these forums, do have a certain amount of self-interest in various schools /FTO's, so take any advice given here with a pinch of salt.
Every school will try to sell you their courses, never forget this. They are a business trying to capture your money.

A couple of the biggest lies around for all flight schools is the myth of "pilot shortage" There is NO pilot shortage of inexperienced 200 - 400 hours pilots.

FTOs are very good at creating cycles of spin, that makes people part with more money than they need, so they can get that first job. The flight schools are similar Used Car sales men, they will say whatever it takes to make you spend your money with them.
For wannabe pilots it's a minefield of BS out there.
Remember when you have spent your money, it's not their problem anymore. Many promise more than they can keep, but when you discover this it's already to late.

The airlines do check training records, and they do care where you have trained. This might sound unfair, but this is based on experience where they see some schools don't meet the same training standards for the pilots they train as others.
So always be aware where you train, the cheapest is not always the best, equally as the most expensive does not guarantee you anything either.

[KT1988]

@2unlimited: There is no pilot shortage still if you work for it you get to the airlines, all 3 of my instructors got an airline job within 1 year from when they were done with their training and they did not even need to do the APS MCC. Its a totally different market depending on where you wish to work. Its all up to the persons level of performance, probably everyone who do an APS MCC will be called by Ryanair for example if doing their official APS MCC program.... so when you get the chance its up to you. The difference between now and past time is that now you actually get the chance and some airlines call you (I know this for real by talking with my instructors) what you do with your chance is up to you. In the past if you did not even get a call then where could you prove what you can? So this is the big difference.

What did surprise me was that people willingly put like 2x the amount necessary to complete their training in other nations than Poland and afterwards make a an eternally long thread about how few aircraft are available and with real student names too.... and then I see that aircraft are waiting for students in Poland.... and sadly some schools in Poland are 'helping" themselves by creating a mud throwing competition that hurt the opinion about the whole nation for no reason..... That is why so many "pseudonyms" bomb google reviews of almost every Polish school except the one that is already full.

People should visit the schools, not only Goldwings that I am student at, visit also the other ones in Poland and see yourself the reality and what suits you best. Then you will notice at once that anonymous google reviews are mud throwing b*****it.

@LauraTahvanainen01: First of all you should write down the hours you did as part of PPL(A) training in your logbook. And the school will for sure write a confirmation for you that you did those hours at the school. Oh and when at another flight school I hope you will write an honest opinion about your new instructors there. Because from what I heard most of your training was done with the very best instructor (in my opinion) at the school and students are actually waiting to get this instructor because he got a passion for instructing, he does let the student make mistakes to learn from them, he does encourage the student to not give up and try harder plus he is never ever angry at the student no matter how hard the student is failing. I wish to get this instructor for the SEP part of my CPL(A) training and my FI(A) training. Some students wish to fly only with this instructor..... So I do really, really hope you will tell us your experience at another flight school.

[boriskubiak]

Dear All. I am one of the above instructors, looking for the best possible training of Miss Laura. I am also experienced instructor and airline pilot performing First Officer duty. I am fully disappointed and disagree with Miss Laura's feedback. In my opinion she was one of the quickest growing student, having typical problems but nicely correcting everything and making significant progress. Due to that we decided to give Miss Laura more complex exercises giving her a chance to have more experience and knowledge, leading quick and efficient training. Unfortunately, Miss Laura did not recognize it and started blaming me as her instructor and our organisation. Without any reasons, knowlage and experience, she wants to prove that my or our way of her training was wrong, and it gave her a loss. I.e. According to the training program, she got an exercise during that, she could fly to different airport which is popular as PPL(A) exam airport. Many other students would like to have this kind of bonus on this stage of training. Again, it was significant disappointment for all of us, especially when we wanted to give even more to young and perspective student. I would like to wish Miss Laura all the best.

[2unlimited]

I don't believe in spending lots of money on a APS MCC, for reasons I have explained on another thread. Not going to repeat it here.

As for Ryanair, generally everybody who applies gets a chance, I never heard anyone applying for Ryanair not getting an interview at some stage. As a first job, they are ok, after not so much in my opinion.

I would hope a FTO have more than 1 good instructor to rely on.
I would say one general advice though, never agree to put all the money up front, pay in stages as you progress. This to ensure you do get trough the different parts in a timely manner, and if you later discover you are not happy with the FTO, you can leave at any time. Never pay large amounts up front for a full course.
I have seen guys get burnt with this before when they paid for a TR course up front, and during their training the company went bankrupt.

[KT1988]

@2unlimited: I saw what you wrote in APS MCC thread but I still do believe it cannot hurt to get it done. And if you look at the Ryanair topic some people are waiting for months and do not get the call (in Poland salary wise its the best you can get and the 164,5 per blockhour for captains is real I got it confirmed).... Still what I experienced at my school is that people get multiple chances at different airlines today so its the big difference, today you get a chance and if you do it well you get the job. 5 years ago you had almost to like pay2fly to get a chance at a job, or as one instructor who now fly for Ryanair for example fly AN-2 some years before getting an interview with an airline.

As for Goldwings Flight Academy there are many good instructors who got both time to explain everything outside of the flying blockhour and who are also very patient, some with extraordinary great flying skill. Its only that the instructor who wrote above in this topic is just totally extraordinary and in my opinion above what is considered a very good instructor. Borys is just the most perfect instructor you can imagine in everything you can expect from an instructor especially when it comes to mentally building student confidence, almost all instructors of course let the student learn from his/hers mistake and do not take control before it is really necessary but not everyone got that pedagogical talent to help the student learn from the mistake and quickly improve. That is why I could not believe my own eyes, when I saw someone who actually was at the school being not satisfied after getting Borys as instructor, and I do also wish all the best to Laura. But I hope she will tell us on the forum about how satisfied she will be with instructors wherever she choose to go to flight school. Because I am pretty sure there are not very many so exceptionally good instructors as Borys all around the world.

[2unlimited]

If you want to waste your money, and money is no object, than sure APS MCC is helpful to a certain degree. But I don't believe it increases your chances to get a job that much, just that you like to part with more money than you have to.
In 2010 - 2012 the average time from you applied with Ryanair to you used to get confirmation of an interview was around 1 - 3 months. But there would be around 2000 - 5000 people who applied, so most got rejected. And that time you also had to pay for the interview with RYR, I am not sure if they still do this now.
But paying £6000 - 8000 for some APS course, vow.... I am lost for words of how newbies are being exploited.
It's good that Ryanair still have sheep ready to come to their muck, but each to their own.
You have many years to go before you become a Captain with RYR, and by the time you arrive at that stage, you will most likely have a different view of them.

I am curious who have made you believe you will get so many airline interviews when you are ready with your 200 hours SEP?
I know one guy with couple of thousands hours on jet, ATPL score average 97%, already 700 hours PIC, and still waiting for a full interview. As I said, FTO's are very good to tell you the airlines will be lined up to interview when you are finish, reality however can change very quickly in short time in this industry. All it takes is major economic downturn, NAS or another big airline to go bankrupt, and life for newbies becomes a nightmare for many years ahead.

Personally I am less optimistic for the next 2 - 3 years ahead, as there might be some big casualties soon in the business.

P2F I would avoid as the plague, 3 guys I know 3-4 years ago, paid 65.000 Euros to an East European FTO, to include TR + 500 hours on type, shortly after TR, the company went bankrupt, but still pocketed 195.000 Euros from these 3 guys, criminal. That's why never pay any FTO up front, for more than the course you currently doing.

[KT1988]

@2unlitmited: Everything that increase the chance of getting an airline job is good. As for the interviews it was not the flight school who talked about it, when I was choosing a school I actually picked Goldwings because I felt the CFI (who is also the owner) was most honest and realistic. What I know about getting to the interview is from my instructors and other students who finished their training. And since you are telling me everyone get Ryanair interview (or call at least) I can tell you that not everyone do get the call but from what I know every instructor got chances at LOT Polish Airlines, Wizz Air, Sprint Air, Enter Air.... And every instructor who was teaching me got a job before 1 year passed from when they had all the necessary licenses.

But if someone has an attitude like "Ryanair is bad" and that is what I can almost read from your post.... then chances are slim the CV got sent to less known airlines who pay less, and a lot also depend on where someone wish to be based I believe. Maybe airlines like Ryanair got a good enough HR to find out who is thinking like you "good for a first job" and they somehow manage to sort out many of those persons who do not wish to stay and give their best effort for the company.

[2unlimited]

What exactly does "most honest and realistic" mean?
If I am training, I want a company that can deliver a high quality training, and I would prefer someone who have a good track record of this. Everybody seems "honest" until their business does not have enough money, and they declare bankruptcy and go away to Bahamas with your money.
Most FTO's don't even own offices, aircraft or sims, they often lease them.
You might sign on to a program where they tell you they will give you an FI job, however if business is bad, what job can they offer you? Promises are worth very little in this industry.

As for RYR when I applied myself, I did get interview, but I got offered something else that I felt was better, and I never regretted this, however I have met plenty of ex RYR pilots telling me how relieved they are to have finally left RYR. However I have no issues admitting it's a good first job to gain experience, however eventually everybody grows tired of the RYR way of being treated.

As for spending nearly 10.000 Euros on APS MCC course, is fine if you have the spare cash to throw away, I am just telling all the others who don't have this money, don't sweat it, you will be fine. You will get interviews without spending this money, rather invest in a few Sim sessions targeting the actual assessment you will have when that time comes.

Than again what do I know, rather listen to people from FTO's on here trying to flog you their FTO's and courses, that might get you an airline interview. It's not like I havent already been trough this whole process the last 10 years.

I was lucky I got someone with years of experience to mentor me, and prepare me for the step up from having a CPL/IR to being ready for an airline. And it was nothing that I learned from an MCC or JOC.

[KT1988]

@2unlimited: For me it meant no marketing and whatever is being asked the answer was not like : "yes everyone get to the airline", "everything is perfect, you can fly whole PPL(A) in 2 weeks" and stuff like that. I did not have a feeling of marketing but a more honest normal conversation. As for the rest of the school it have existed in over 10 years and through the big crisis (without problems) and I do happen to know the planes and sims are owned by the school except for one investment (my plane). And I decided to do it because I saw how good the school worked, if I did not think so I would never ever invest in it because why? As for "track record" feel free to check on the facebook page how many pilots trained in Goldwings got to the airlines, you can actually write to them too and ask. As for the quality of training, well as you can see in the sporadic real complaints (not those anonymous from other schools and a fired instructor) they are about the school demanding a high level of flying and theoretical knowledge to be obtained by the students. And that in most cases require more time than standard 45 hours for PPL(A) for example (some did it in the mandatory hours).

As for the APS MCC it is both to learn on a Boeing 737 sim (and they are actually targeting the assessment there) and get a shortcut to get the Ryanair call (as I told you not everyone got the call, but everyone got some assessment some even more than one at the other airlines) plus I will do of course train extra with Sim sessions to be even better. Flying is always about improving, so it will definitely not harm to do well in the SIM. And it will also probably not harm if the HR see I believe in their company and wish to do my best effort for it, instead of someone who come there thinking (its a good first job). And the HR know probably what other airlines with bases in Poland pay so they believe Polish pilots will stay.

Oh and there is no APS MCC at my school so the part about "flogging someone into their courses" its better to write it in the APS MCC topic.

[parkfell]

KT1988

Why is it that I get the distinct impression you are a "management lackey"?

i think you do protest too much.......

The customer is the final arbiter. Let us see if we start to hear from them.

Your english style of writing is very distinctive. Using another 'c/s' will be fairly obvious.

[KT1988]

@parkfell: Because I do not like the mud throwing contest between schools in Poland making the whole nation suffer and not helping anyone. And as I said openly and honestly I invested in my own Cessna 172 so of course it is also in my interest that the school will grow it will open the possibility for further investments and I believe in the school because it is very good. I would not have invested if I did not believe the school is very good.

As for my English well I am not good at grammar so I do not know what you mean by "c/s" and Google does not help.

I decided to write in topics where people ask about Goldwings so customers can also get some real info and visit the schools themselves instead of thinking everything must be bad in Poland if they watch the anonymous school vs school mud throwing contest in Google.

[youngretired]

I am a current MEP/IR/CPL of this school and I can recommend visiting them. I finished my NVFR and MEP and waiting for IR/CPL training approvals from CAA. The school helped me a lot during my first stage and I assume the rest will be better.

[2unlimited]

So I can see Goldwings are connected to a P2F company Fly Nordica. I am not about bashing anyone regardless from where they come from, except if they run these Pay2Fly programs or work with Pay2Fly companies, then they deserve everything they get.

Very cagey in the description of the "job". I would be very curious to see what the "free" training contract with Nordica would look like.
Apparently EagleJet are using Nordica also, enough said. Garbage.

Let it be a warning, when 3 guys I met few years ago, lost 195.000 Euros to another Eastern European company, who was running a P2F program, and declared themselves bankrupt before the 3 guys got to fly one single hour P2F. Obviously the owners had left the country going on holiday, as their Limited Company went bankrupt. Not surprisingly, there was no funds left in the company as they was dissolved.

[KT1988]

@2unlimited: Goldwings cooperation with Nordica have not even started yet and it will of course be a normal program just with an extra possibility to get an airline job. Same price same licenses as on the normal 0-ATPL program. Its an opportunity for students who pass Nordica assessment to continue the program with Nordica guidelines and in the end get a job there (no extra payment, not even for typerating I believe). A PAID job by Nordica. No paying just the normal cost of 0-ATPL program without an airline, so this is a "for free extra chance" A BONUS. And the program have not even started yet.

With your way of thinking it would be bad if Ryanair choose a school from which they wish to assess the students. Its Nordica who will pay the qualified pilots to fly for them not the other way around. And Goldwings are just training pilots up to the full IR/ME CPL(A) + for those who wish FI(A).

I do not know any EagleJet neither do Goldwings have any connection to it or probably have also not heard about it, so stop spreading misinformation like those "haters" who did not even visit the school, you have beaten those haters you did not even read what it was about and shouted that it is pay2fly while its an ordinary for free chance for students who already got their 0-ATPL program so its a bonus to have a chance to secure an airline job for those who wish to try. No extra cost.

You are just putting misleading information like people who never ever visited the school, you did not even read what the planned cooperation is about and that the student does not have to pay anything extra and got a chance at a PAID job. Seriously if you do not know something or understand something read it or call the school and ask then you will know what it is before you create fiction.

PS. As you see above we do also have fresh and satisfied students like youngretired who visited the school like I advised him when he asked, and he chose that Goldwings suited his needs and he is satisfied. The school value every student feedback both those fully satisfied and those who did not like something as long as they tell what it was (for example performing more exercises to improve the students flying skills as in the previous case). Feedback gives room for improvement for everyone can always improve (except instructors will never be able to magically teach the student with no effort from the student, the student must do his/her own effort to learn and also believe the program with different exercises was made for a reason (mandatory from the CAA).).

But being bombed by mud throwing from "pseudonyms" who have never ever visited the school (but most probably represent an another school) or reading people who create fiction out of a FREE bonus chance for the students.... ? Seriously its funny how people do not know but still comment like if they knew.

[2unlimited]

You seem to know an awful lot about the flight school you are training at.
I am not mudslinging, I just read Eaglejet are partner with Nordica now in 2019, and there are more stories about Nordica P2F connections from the past.
I did not say Goldwings was working with Eaglejet, I said Eaglejet is working with Nordica. You need to read correctly what I write. Fly Nordica is the P2F company.

https://news.err.ee/117635/fly-with-us-says-the-nordic-aviation-group-no-thanks-say-pilots

""Pilots pay to fly
Airlines operating so-called pay-to-fly schemes make the situation even worse. Pilots’ licenses depend on their experience with individual plane types, measured in hours spent flying aircraft. Under pay-to-fly, pilots pay their employer for training and flight hours in order to log the time needed to acquire their license. A pilot often must pay tens of thousands of euros, a sum deducted from their pay.
Through Nordic Crew Management, NAG hires for a base salary plus hours flown, and at the same time hires based on pay-to-fly, which creates deductions to an already performance-dependent salary."

[parkfell]

Any form of P2F scheme needs to be banned by the Regulators, together with any form of anti avoidance scheme to circumvent the rules.

Once fare paying passengers are carried, then it is only equitable that the newly qualified FO is paid a salary.
Any ATO who associates themselves with this type of scheme must be treated with great suspicion and must declare just what financial arrangement has been entered into to encourage the unsuspecting customer (student) sign up to such a immoral scheme.

Even if you complete a P2F scheme, you will more than likely be let go, for the next junior birdman to be sucked into P2F.
Any reputable operator will simply not contemplate such an arrangement.

There are sufficient horror stories in the public domain to warn off any intelligent person from contemplating this rip off.

ATOs reputations deserve to suffer if they encourage P2F

[uncle dickie]

KT1988

Will you “nail your colours to the mast” and unequivocally condemn all forms of P2F scheme on this Pprune forum.

A simple YES or NO answer. No waffle. Yes, or No....

[KT1988]

@2unlimited: Of course I know a lot about the flight school. I am not the kind of guy who start training somewhere or invest in something (like an aircraft) just thinking "oh it will be great" instead I learn about it and see if it works good.

Any pilot from Goldwings who will be assessed by Nordica and get a job there will be paid by Nordica in the same way (of course the salaries vary) as pilots get paid by Ryanair, Wizz Air, LOT, etc. I do not say Nordica does not or did not in the past, (I am not current on Nordica business situation) use pilots who pay2fly through eaglejet og aviationCV or whatever pay2fly company there exist, in the past also Enter Air did or so the Internet says. But that is Nordica and Eaglejet and their customers problem (looks like they are so extremely few it does not fill any demand). Nordica does certainly also hire pilots who get paid in the casual way with an assessment just like Enter Air did all the time. Whatever airlines do with other companies have absolutely nothing to do with Goldwings.

THE POINT: Goldwings will in the close future offer the possibility to for FREE get an assessment with Nordica and get a job where airline pay the pilot in the casual way just like any other airline. Its nothing else just an extra possibility for the students.

Simply: Goldwings does not, did not and will never have anything to do with any pay2fly scheme. Cooperation with any airline is and will be the normal scheme where airline pay the pilot employed simple as that. So stop creating fiction.

[2unlimited]

I would be more curious to see what kind of "contract" Nordica will offer in this kind of agreement.
Normally when it's to good to be true, there is always a catch. Description on website was very cagey and secretive, I wonder why!

[KT1988]

@2unlimited: Description is precise about what the student (program is for current students or people who already got PPL(A) so its cheaper than 0-ATPL) will train at Goldwings: ATPL(A) theory, VFR Night, MEP(L), IR(A), CPL(A) + MCC/JOC included in the price.

Whatever Nordica does after this if the student pass the Nordica assessment is Nordica responsibility. Just as for example the expensive famous schools who got a deal with Ryanair for example are not responsible for the part done by Ryanair for those who pass the assessment. As you can guess Goldwings do not have their own Bombardier CRJ 700-900 (or type rating instructors) so the school can not be responsible for Nordica, the school only give students who choose to do so a FREE chance to be assessed by Nordica. And from what the school currently know (the cooperation have not started yet) Nordica is offering the same type of contract as it offer for regular cadet FOs who apply directly at Nordica for the standard assessment so its a salary for 70 block hours per month + extra if more hours are done from what I know. Nordica is also partially owned by LOT Polish Airlines so that can probably also give later career opportunities.

Its just like in the past with Enter Air, people who applied directly got the Enter Air assessment and the Enter Air standard salary for cadet FOs. Today I believe there is no more "back door entrance" at Enter Air and people do not even have to pay for the type rating but they get a bond (many students and instructors got the normal Enter Air job) that is not being deducted from salary but activated in case they wish to leave early (Ryanair like pilots with experience on 737NG). As for Nordica I do not know because no instructor or student I personally know got a job there (one of my instructors got the offer but at the same time he got an offer from Wizz Air and chose the Wizz Air job) but the job offered is the normal job with salary as for everyone else going there directly.

[asmith474]

does anyone know if you already have a PPL and do the rest of the 0-fATPL in poland do you have to pay the 23% tax?

[KT1988]

@asmith474: Its a profession study (you will become a commercial pilot) so you will not need to pay the 23 % VAT if you did only PPL(A) without the rest then you would have to.

[milosmilos]

@KT1988: I am an international student and was enrolled in the 0-ATPL program by Goldwings. I paid them a deposit of 1000 euros before I applied for the study visa, which was finally refused. As I cannot go to Poland, I have to quit this program and request the school a refund of the deposit, which they agreed to do. On 3rd October one of the school's heads, Ms Goralska told me via wechat that they would refund me next week, but then she totally disappeared. I can on longer contact her and other guys of the school from then on. I tried many ways like whatsapp, wechat and email(I had already sent them my visa refusal letter and the original acceptance letter and the reciept of deposit payment)these days, but they didnt respond at all. This is very unusual. Now it is resonable for me to suspect why they avoid me all the time and if they didnt plan to refund me but break their promise and swallow my money?

As you seem to know the Goldwings very well, so I want to ask do you know what happened to the school and how to contact the guys in other ways? Thanks for your help.

[parkfell]

If you live in London, then you have EU entry approval? As Poland is part of the EU why was VISA APPLICATION refused?
Cold comfort, but you have got off comparatively lightly compared to some, who have lost money in flying training, as it was only a deposit, as oppose to a substantial advance payment at course commencement.

If you go back through this thread, there are indications that this ATO needed careful scrutiny prior to selection.
Never select an establishment without visiting it first. If that is not possible then you must research all the options, and ideally get a recommendation from a trusted individual preferably one who has recently finished training at the ATO.
The cheapest price is not necessarily best value for money.

As for KT1988 he has not posted this year. The bird has flown?

[PFD]

If you live in London, then you have EU entry approval?

I may have slightly misquoted but actually no. If you are a full British citizen yes, but my wife has a British Residence Permit, and that only entitles her to live here. It’s because we are not part of the Schengen group of countries.

[parkfell]

The updated information is that milosmilos does not in fact reside in London, but in China, hence the need for a VISA.
I take your point about the residency vagaries UK v. EU regulations.

[TheCapn]

Hello guys .
Honestly there isnt enough space to explain my feelings about this scammers .
Yea unfortunatelly i was the latest victim of this "school"
There is almost none pros of this school i want to briefly talk about cons
They have stupid boss who called bartek and he and his crew only looks your money ,they give you promises and never they can fullfill ,your slots can be have cancelled or delayed without any purpose , if you from out of some europe countries their behaviours to you extremelly racist (ofcourse after the payment) :) ,the quality of training is ****ty they are expecting from you self-study thats why knowledge of most instrucktors worst then qualified student pilots , i want to mention about time of training its funny i am sure you will laugh ... Yea they are giving 0atpl course minimum 3 years taking .. why ? Because this place isnt well-organized ,They are giving priviledge to their "perfect super clever " polish students ,when you go office mostly they repond you polish language even though you dont understand something , they insulting to you ,FROM BOSS TO EACH EMPLOYEE İN OFFlCE LOUDLY SWEARlNG EACH OTHER .. yes guys this is funny and true all the time they talking vulgar language ,you dont feel that you are flight academy ,you feel like you are in highschool
for almost all part of your training you are waiting for something or aircraft not ready or instructor dont wanna fly or they change your slot with someone and they dont give you new one :D
When i finish this "academy" i was the happiest person because not that i got my license .. because i got rid of them ,
i had a couple of friends left this barn for not to fight with them unfortunatelly i didnt had this opportunity i regret ..
For the people who think to start his carrier in this barn please my friend be far from EPBC . The Money is not important as much your aviation love , for the not loose your passion do not even open this barn door .
Trust me guys this what i wrote above its only %10 of what we live in there ..

[KT1988]

@parkfell: I have not been posting on the forum because maybe you noticed we had a pandemic that screwed everything so I rather waited with my final training as long as possible (ATPL theory pass is not valid forever). Also as written in Ryan air topic I don't wanna take instructor spot just because I can (after finishing FI(A) of course) if there are better ones than me doing it currently but happily people are back at their airlines so everything is slowly going back to normal. Flying for me is something I enjoy its not something I do because of economic reasons, as for economic stuff I could just sit rest of my life and wait for different investment payouts each month (which I also did during pandemic). As for prepayments I have not heard much about it but I believe it was called "zadatek" and not "zaliczka" so its non refundable part of the payment for flight training, and there was A LOT of people who could not enter Poland during the pandemic but now it should be possible and everyone who paid anything will get its worth the school is not responsible for the state, the pandemic or people not getting visas during pandemic.

Personally I paid 19 % of 30 extra PIC ME hours (I want to learn to fly the ME aircraft for real not just do the mandatory MEP(L) training, maybe once upon a time get CRI/ME and my own DA-42) but postponed the whole stuff so I can do it fresh instead of doing it in 2020 in the middle of pandemic. The cash is not gone its waiting there for when I wanna do the training, if someone prepay something before they find out stuff with the state or the pandemic etc. its not the schools fault. Its clearly informed what is prepayment that can not be withdrawn and what is payment that can be refunded. What if someone fail I class medical? The school actually advise everyone to take the I class medical BEFORE signing up for any training if someone living abroad say they have everything ok and sign, is it the schools fault if they fail I class medical that they said they already have?

@TheCapn: You do realize you should have chosen integrated training that usually cost 2x the price if you do not want to do self-study? Actually even in an integrated course the instructors wont learn for you, you will have to do some self-study. Plus if someone is struggling with theory its possible in Poland to hire private instructor for the theory part. Also the school offer theory lessons with instructors for free, but I actually heard one guy manage to say they he do not want to...... some people do actually believe stuff should learn itself without their personal effort. Modular course includes self-study. I have never ever seen anyone laughing of foreign students and we had some real professional students from Turkiye who were previously F-16 pilots doing their civil commercial licenses. But there have also been some who talked a lot about their dads being captains and having a job waiting for them, while some of them were unable to answer basic questions from the instructor (or discuss aviation stuff with other students) about the training they were supposed to do. But still no one did treat it in a bad way at the school (of course the school does not have "stiff" atmosphere so people do joke and have fun, and its other students joking not the staff). The whole office at the school is proficient in English and speak English with every student who wish to speak English.

As for "super clever students" who actually care to do their self-study and learn the stuff required for the different lessons of course they get their lessons when they are prepared for them. If someone know almost nothing then the person is sent and even helped to learn the stuff that is supposed to be read and learned by the student in modular course. If done otherwise then the lesson would be a waste of time and the students money, imagine the outrage if someone was flying 3x the hours for ME/IR for example because the school said its ok that you know nothing and do not want to self-study or do extra free theory lessons with the instructor since you will learn in the cockpit..... of course there exist schools all over Europe that pass students who don't fly the aircraft themselves and even have friendly examiners but then if someone want only a license and not learn to fly then they should not choose a school that actually is learning people to fly and not pushing them through the course just to get it done.

[TheCapn]

@KT1988 hahaha you are the one office guy one of high rank person in goldwings probably. Dont worry i am keeping proof of records that you and your intructors racisim. Yea definitely "stiff" atmosphere means swear in Polish to international students who dont understand any polish words. i and my lots friends suffered from your "academy" a lot. if we start to tell our story it will be novel :D but we focus that rest of aviation lovers will not fall in to goldwings trap ! i want to say sth about the "basic questions" they asked : guys they never asked polish students that kind of aviation questions . They (especially fat boss) stopping you and want to make quiz by ear :D unless you give a wrong respond he continue to ask afterall boom you fail ! you dont know anything! you from ...... all of you waste of time ! starts to insult you . We lived lots of disgusting moments with those nonhumans. So telling you again do not give any of your money those scammers.

[KT1988]

@TheCapn: I am not an office guy, other than some short visits last time I was at the EPBC was in March 2020 before the pandemic. Now I will be back to complete my training but definitely not for any office stuff :) BTW no one is swearing in Polish to international students sometimes people talk with each other and use some words to underline something if something is wrong, but its when people talk to each other and not to the student (office people talking to other office people present) what would be the point to swear to someone who do not understand it?

Every single student is asked the same kind of questions, of course the polish students are asked in polish. A lot of polish students have also failed theory questions and had to redo them, but they usually live at home so you don't see them living at the schools rooms for rent since they go home after failed theory check. There are far more polish students than foreign at the school so of course you see many more of them coming from their homes to fly after passing the theory check. So how can you say they have not been asked if you do not understand polish and BTW the asking is not in front of an audience.... if someone who is not polish do not do proper effort or do not know stuff it does not mean its "racism" to ask the person to upgrade the theoretical knowledge and everything asked is related to the practical task its not stuff like in ATPL theory exams that is not to be used practically. There were a lot of students from Turkiye who did their civil aviation licenses coming from military F-16 I wonder why they were all satisfied got all the training very fast and were very happy with the school? Maybe because they already knew all the necessary knowledge for each task in the training? There are also a lot of fresh students who were also very happy but they also did the effort to learn stuff. The school is definitely not good for people who just want to get a license but do not want to learn to fly properly and complete all the necessary training as it should be done, there exist other schools who just push people towards the paper and do not care if they know how to fly or not (I heard of schools where people do not fly PIC hours or solo by themselves even since those schools do not dare to let them fly alone). The school requires effort and its for people who really want to learn to fly and are prepared to give it proper effort. I have never seen anyone doing proper effort being unhappy with the school since December 2017 (before I have not been there so I do not know).

PS. During the pandemic everything was waiting for the students who were available to fly in Poland. So the only reason someone was not flying was failed theory since it was 100 % in the schools interest to have people flying when aircraft were standing empty and waiting. If the school was unfair they would just fly with not ready students 3x the time to complete the training instead of making sure that everyone is prepared for the lessons and wont be learning theory while in the cockpit flying. So everyone should be happy to skip those extra expenses and instead learn the stuff like it should be done before the practical lesson.

[JOKI]

Don't give them money your money. Me and group of my friends paid for UPRT course and most of us done it after nearly half year (it's 2 day course). One of my instructor was Bartek - boss, the most unkind and unproffesional person I ever met. After lot of delays we were set up for last part of course at another airport (they were renting aircraft from aeroclub), we were waiting for 2 days there with zero information from our instructor when he's gonna come, that he's gonna be late and that he's not gonna come at all the first day - we were told by direction of aeroclub that he's not coming - it should not work like that at all. Of course we were trying to reach him, first he wasn't responding to our calls, then he blocked our numbers. At second day we finally finished training (but that were most unpleasant flights from my aviation training) and we thought that it's over - no. We were reaching the school every few days for information about flight to update our logbook - we finally got it after 2 months when we directly messaged aeroclub from who the airplane was rented. Don't go there if you don't want to be treated like garbage by people who only cares about your wallet - they are not signing contracts (they say because it's short training) but now I see why.

[hamburgerboy]

Their website should've been a warning really :O

[Flyingsailor93]

I recommend to do your training UPRT (the other training I’m not sure about it) in another place than this school. I wanted to do my UPRT training since November 2022 It’s January 2023 and still now I didn’t do any.

Lot of excuses, lack of professionalism, just to start the theory course for UPRT I have called more than 2 weeks.Unpleasantly behaving. Every time I need something it’s like asking for 2 to 3 times to get a proper reply.

I am a very patient person but for me now it starting to be annoying I have very soon airline ASSESMENT and they are asking for my UPRT certificate.

in all cases for those looking out for information about the UPRT training don’t go there until you want to wait apparently 6months for a 2 day training.

good luck.

[KT1988]

As far as I know the UPRT training started from October 2022 when the school received a brand new aircraft for UPRT (ZLIN Z 242 L). Everyone was also informed about when the aircraft arrives and it was announced on the schools facebook etc itd. Since October the UPRT training is done in 1 day (if weather permits remember its winter now) and already over 200 students completed it as far as I know.

So if you did not recieve UPRT traning I would recommend contacting the school not writing here and you will be flying tomorrow or first day with proper weather. If you are not flying its because 1. You did not contact the school or 2. You are not a student but some other flightschool who just want to complain since almost no school in Poland got a brand new UPRT aircraft and give JOC on A320 SIM as bonus to the UPRT. So if your school can not provide the training then dont pretend you are a student because as far as I can see from the flightlogger system everyone who want to fly UPRT get it the first day weather permits since October.

Also for people outside of school (no flightlogger) you can see people who finished UPRT on facebook or instagram with names and pictures and the amount of them. Real students finishing the course, not other schools who do not got the aircraft for it. You can also come to the school on a good weather day if you are lucky and come in the morning you will fly the same day.

[Flyingsailor93]

As far as I know the UPRT training started from October 2022 when the school received a brand new aircraft for UPRT (ZLIN Z 242 L). Everyone was also informed about when the aircraft arrives and it was announced on the schools facebook etc itd. Since October the UPRT training is done in 1 day (if weather permits remember its winter now) and already over 200 students completed it as far as I know.

So if you did not recieve UPRT traning I would recommend contacting the school not writing here and you will be flying tomorrow or first day with proper weather. If you are not flying its because 1. You did not contact the school or 2. You are not a student but some other flightschool who just want to complain since almost no school in Poland got a brand new UPRT aircraft and give JOC on A320 SIM as bonus to the UPRT. So if your school can not provide the training then dont pretend you are a student because as far as I can see from the flightlogger system everyone who want to fly UPRT get it the first day weather permits since October.

Also for people outside of school (no flightlogger) you can see people who finished UPRT on facebook or instagram with names and pictures and the amount of them. Real students finishing the course, not other schools who do not got the aircraft for it. You can also come to the school on a good weather day if you are lucky and come in the morning you will fly the same day.

Are you sure of what you are saying?
This is again the proof of your own unprofessionalism you don’t even know who is your student which of course is normal the only thing you know is receiving the money.

First,I will be happy showing you all the email that have been sent since November (hey we are in the end of January ) contacting you to provide a 2 day training ( yes,I don’t only accuse, I prove it materially)

Second, since this person in this forum seems to always neglect the advices of the costumers and the feedbacks and what people say, I have a voice record of their behaviour and more proof (emails and sms…) of their unprofessionalism hit me in pm so I will more happy to share it and I’ll share it in all social medias available to orientate the people. (Yes i was preparing to sue them if They didn’t provide the training.(which have not been provided)

Third, I’ll be sure that all the CAA and all authorities involved will be aware of your behaviour which are faaaar from the standards professionally and aeronautically.

One of the RED FLAGS is providing a training without a contract (it is a big red flag that I should be aware of since the beginning)

Last but not least I assure you any student from my country and in the European Union will put a feet in your school.

Sincerely,

[KT1988]

@Flyingsailor93 First of all I am not any employee of the school. I have a private company doing B2B stuff. But since cooperation I do actually have access to the flightlogger system so I do know that real students get their training done.

So if you are a real student where did you send the e-mail to what address since November? Because there is absolutely no e-mail with someone askin for UPRT training who did not get it and the aircraft is standing there not used a lot of the time, do you think its earning money standing still in periods with good weather ?

Its just another example of mudslinging from other schools, because I can literally see who is available for training and sent mail. The last person who asked for UPRT was a woman on 05.01.2023. So where did you send your mail?

[Flyingsailor93]

@Flyingsailor93 First of all I am not any employee of the school. I have a private company doing B2B stuff. But since cooperation I do actually have access to the flightlogger system so I do know that real students get their training done.

So if you are a real student where did you send the e-mail to what address since November? Because there is absolutely no e-mail with someone askin for UPRT training who did not get it and the aircraft is standing there not used a lot of the time, do you think its earning money standing still in periods with good weather ?

It’s just another example of mudslinging from other schools, because I can literally see who is available for training and sent mail. The last person who asked for UPRT was a woman on 05.01.2023. So where did you send your mail?

Can you leave the other school in Poland alone. Nobody is throwing you mud. I’m sure that lot of school in Poland are more correct (Bartolini, Smart aviation, Zonda aero and so on…) myself dealing with Polish people are the most kind and disciplined people I have ever met . 90% of flight schools in Poland have food review (yeah people talk) so be sure they don’t need to be on a forum to reach clients.

But a commercial and an organisational advise: what You should do is fix your behaviour and attitude and customer service to not have a bad review on a forum (by the way why aren’t you on Google maps so we can see the general public reviews too?

The European Union is a very small place the reputation of your school or whatever school in the space will travel faster than light. People talk, costumers talk and I assure you the bad reputation of your school due to your behaviour (Bartek… yes everybody know you are behind this account) by the way you need some CRM classes and a class on “how you deal with people politely” and a class on “have some manner” and a class on “doing a briefing before going to fly” (are you sure you are a professional Pilot as you mention it? ).

Furthermore, “ato@goldwings” , do you want me to put you the phone number of all your flight instructors, yes I do have access on the flightlogger. Do you want me to forward you all the emails I have sent just to be programmed to do a 2 days training?
Yeah my request of UPRT was since November 2nd. Maybe if you get into your accounts you will see a bank transfers labelled UPRT training that day? Ah you won’t find it because you have scammed so many people you get lost in accounts…
Again, I do have integrity and respect to not lie (maybe Bartek needs a reminder about discipline,integrity and respect)

And I’m assuring you you will hear me when the time comes when you will have the visit of inspectors, and the seizure of respective CAA and finish on TV there you will understand the gravity of this matter.

it’s enough you keep scamming people and getting away with it.
Another reminder think about making training contracts when you provide a training every single flight school do that because they respect their engagement a non existence of a training make it blury).
For your information I’m not the random student you will scam and get away with it.

[KT1988]

@Flyingsailor93: First of all if you look at the Polish forum or even in this very forum every single Polish school from EPBC (Babice) got mud slinged at it. Its because its like 4 schools at same airport. BTW Goldwings also provide training in Kraków at EPKP (Pobiednik) airport and by some strange coincidence no one on any forum was ever unhappy with that ( no other school there).

If you look at my previous posts you will see that I am not the boss of the school, I believe he do not even watch or read the forum. Once did an Instructor reply to a real student in this topic because I informed the school that it looks like a real student with a name and because the student was unhappy with actually the best Instructor I was ever instructed by.

As for the e-mail adress, if you are another school then congratulations you found the old address to the office/reception guy who changed jobs in October. This address have never ever been used to send availability to. That is why no one (or possibly the new reception guy but missed it) ever saw your e-mail IF you are a real student.

I can not believe a real student would not check the main page of the flightlogger with big information: "Good day. I inform that from today I will be doing the schedule. We have created a special account to which information and requests ********atgoldwingsdotpl should be sent from today. All information about the schedule is only transmitted via the internet." This information is in flightlogger on the main page since 14.09.2019 and the ato address have never ever been used for scheduling. I can not believe a real student would keep sending the mail to the wrong address and never call the school or check the flightlogger system.

PS. If you are a real student (I can not believe it since then you would probably call the school or check if you are sending the mail to the proper address) then maybe log in the flightlogger read the address and send the e-mail so you can get your training immediately. No one is interested in the aircraft not being used by students because it does not earn money by standing there. If you are some other school then good luck with trying to rent UPRT aircraft and being able to provide the training :)

[Entusiast777]

By all means and available ways I encourage everyone who ever hears about this crap, which is Goldwings Aviation Academy, to AVOID them and pass the message on. I was unlucky and not diligent enough to make a research before applying for a training with them. I really should have watched all those negative comments about goldwings since 2016 and make conclusions. All in all, I am another witness of their extremely disgusting approach and treating students. All mentioned above is 1000000% TRUE in terms of absolute disrespect and impolite attitude. I signed up for a module, which takes normally about 3-4 days to complete. And initially the head of training Jesionek told me the same. Eventually it took me weeks to complete, even though the weather conditions were favorable. During those days awaiting for my flight it seemed that nobody gave a f%ck of how and when the flight should be planned. You constantly have to show up and almost beg them to be so kind to assign a flight for you. Moreover, no pre-flight briefing when flying with that Bartek, which is a totally arrogant, impolite and disrespectful to people. Shouting at students and cursing them during the flight, trying to show them how miserable they are.
I repeat, no pre-flight briefing, is that a sign of professional???
And if you, Jesionek, reading this, keep in mind that if you don't undergo a special training on how to be polite and respectful to people that you don't know, then one day you will definitely meet a fist into your face, and probably that someone will change your vision of how the neutral attitude to peope should look like.
Congratulations, goldwings, you got one more negative feedback and obviously you should do something to change the image and reputation of your organisation. As someone mentioned above, EU is not that big, and flight community is even smaller. Once again mates, stay vigilant and avoid making my mistakes and mistakes of many who already left their comments about their experiences since 2016.

[KT1988]

@Enthusiast777: Did you change nickname because it was too "special" to believe a student never saw where to send the e-mail or never called why the e-mail is not received? So now you say you completed the training but it took a long time to complete and you had to show up to get a flight?

IF you were a real student did you not try sending the e-mail to the correct address being pasted on flightlogger frontpage? The scheduling e-mails are received on Thursday preceding the week when people want to fly (if there are free slots as most often also people who send their availability later are scheduled). And everyone is getting planned. But ofc if someone never send the mail, the week is fully planned and someone show up on Monday and say "I wanna fly please give me a flight now" then the school will not kick out people who sent the mail from their slots they will also not make the instructor be available when he is not. So probably they wanted to do you a favor and give you a flight when the aircraft was available, the only Instructor who might have time like randomly without pre planning and can do every kind of instructing is Captain Jesionek so that is why you probably got a flight with him.

And Captain Jesionek does usually only teach people for IR/ME, CPL(A) or UPRT that he select, in order to teach them something more because he know they will benefit from the lesson. For the students who hold a CPL(A) BUT are clueless about flying there are other instructors, but of course if someone who did not send their availability came to the school and insisted to fly then maybe he wanted to do a favor a went with a random not scheduled student I have no idea. Captain Jesionek is not an instructor who is normally instructing random students the school got a lot of other instructors that teach the very basics, who also understand why someone at the end of the training (previous training done at other school) does not know basics about flying and would crash if sent on PIC solo flight.

Once again IF there is any real student and not other flight school complaining then the only way to not get scheduled is 1. Not sending the e-mail to the correct address (99 % of cases) 2. Some very rare scenario where aircraft is in for maintenance that take more than a week (1% of cases) but then they get priority slot next week......

BTW the only time an instructor from Goldwings read this topic was when a real student with a real name complained about a real Instructor. And the case got an answer only because I informed the instructor about it.

[Entusiast777]

For your reference, I was a real student in that crap school which you are advocating, and the only one whou should change the nickname is you, for sth. like "goldwingsProtector" or whatever of that kind.
I placed availability one week ahead and clearly mentioned that I am very flexible and available for a flight anytime.
Anyway, the only thing you can say to support goldwings is that everybody posting about their negative and ****ty experiences are guys from other flight schools. Nothing new in your techniques.
I am pretty sure that the number of people posting precautionary messages to avoid goldwings will only increase with time.
And also keep in mind that there is no any other school in Poland, who got as many negative feedbacks as goldwings. Btw, a good question above, why isn't goldwings listed on google maps?
Isn't it because you are concerned that the number of crap reviews will become even larger? All in all, as said before, I will try to do my best to let as many people as possible know that they should stay away from so-called "academy".

[KT1988]

@Entusiast777: Well the amount of happy people are like 99,9 % so when suddenly some strange stuff appear its most likely a fired employee or another school from same airport. Only once there was someone who looked like real student and got an answer from the Instructor.

IF there are real people who are unhappy its 1. They can not accept they have to actually put effort into learning to fly or 2. They do not read messages and information (most often making them appear in point 1 and point 2 simultaneously) like that UPRT aircraft was available from October 2022 or about where to send the e-mail.

I just know how the school works and that everyone who for real want to learn to fly not only get the printed license is happy at the school. I do also know that people who send the mail with availability get their slots because I can see it and the aircraft only earn money if they fly so no one is interested in aircraft standing idle.

But if someone do only wish to get quickly their license paper printed without learning anything, and especially if someone dislike honesty and would like to be told they are great and gonna get immediate spot at the airlines etc itd. Then please apply to some other school at EPBC you will be so happy until you try to become instructor or go for the airlines. Only try Goldwings if you for real want to learn to fly and get honest feedback about how you are doing.

PS. Goldwings students and instructors (who complete the whole training or most of it at Goldwings) get airline jobs very many of them. Real people with pictures and names everywhere from Sprint Air, Enter Air, LOT Polish Airlines, Wizzair to Ryan Air. Some also get hired at business jet operators. You can check that they are all real with pictures and real names. Please ask at the other schools at EPBC, (they will tell you everyone gets to the airline ofc.) and ask them for some real people who you can see. From Goldwings you can see endless list on facebook page of real people with pictures and names. BUT it require effort and not everyone gets there, effortless training "everything is perfect" makes people unable to even get solo PIC flight without safety pilot not to mention becoming Instructor or getting an airline job. So if you need the license only without any effort please do not even consider Goldwings you will be unhappy. But if you really want to do an effort and learn to fly plus can accept feedback about what is wrong not only positive feedback then its the place you should consider.

[Flyingsailor93]

For your reference, I was a real student in that crap school which you are advocating, and the only one whou should change the nickname is you, for sth. like "goldwingsProtector" or whatever of that kind.
I placed availability one week ahead and clearly mentioned that I am very flexible and available for a flight anytime.
Anyway, the only thing you can say to support goldwings is that everybody posting about their negative and ****ty experiences are guys from other flight schools. Nothing new in your techniques.
I am pretty sure that the number of people posting precautionary messages to avoid goldwings will only increase with time.
And also keep in mind that there is no any other school in Poland, who got as many negative feedbacks as goldwings. Btw, a good question above, why isn't goldwings listed on google maps?
Isn't it because you are concerned that the number of crap reviews will become even larger? All in all, as said before, I will try to do my best to let as many people as possible know that they should stay away from so-called "academy".

Here is the Goldwings Google maps reference

called “Loty widokowe Warszawa”
https://maps.app.goo.gl/2cFVaeRPEvuBBnq36?g_st=ic

:)
and apparently even people who wanted to do discovery flight have the same feeling…

[KT1988]

@Flyingsailor93: One review of someone unhappy..... but wait a moment in other comment they write that the flights are performed by the local Aeroclub and/or by some other flight school. So no one does even know who the person was unhappy with. Also once upon a time there was a person with a voucher from other flight school at EPBC who had to be explained that she bought it from the other school because she claimed that she was supposed to have a flight.

There are 4 flight schools at EPBC + aeroclub, and for sightseeing flights there are often people who come to the entrance to the airport and claim they gonna fly and paid for it, but the problem is that they paid to some other school that does not have their office right at the entrance..... Once again no one is interested in aircraft standing idle and Goldwings sightseeing aircraft fly as often as possible when there are people who wish to fly and who have booked the flight with Goldwings not with some other school.

Oh and in EPKP in Kraków there are also sightseeing flights + training for students. By some miracle no one have ever been unhappy with it..... might it have something to do with no other flightschool operating from there (just the aeroclub) I just wonder.... once again the only real students who might be unhappy with Goldwings are people who only wish to get the license without any effort and who also wish to only get positive feedback.... later on such people wonder why no airline wish to have them and no one want to hire them as instructor or even send on a solo PIC flight..... Please if someone only wish to get the license without any effort pick some other school.

[Flyingsailor93]

@Flyingsailor93: One review of someone unhappy..... but wait a moment in other comment they write that the flights are performed by the local Aeroclub and/or by some other flight school. So no one does even know who the person was unhappy with. Also once upon a time there was a person with a voucher from other flight school at EPBC who had to be explained that she bought it from the other school because she claimed that she was supposed to have a flight.

There are 4 flight schools at EPBC + aeroclub, and for sightseeing flights there are often people who come to the entrance to the airport and claim they gonna fly and paid for it, but the problem is that they paid to some other school that does not have their office right at the entrance..... Once again no one is interested in aircraft standing idle and Goldwings sightseeing aircraft fly as often as possible when there are people who wish to fly and who have booked the flight with Goldwings not with some other school.

Oh and in EPKP in Kraków there are also sightseeing flights + training for students. By some miracle no one have ever been unhappy with it..... might it have something to do with no other flightschool operating from there (just the aeroclub) I just wonder.... once again the only real students who might be unhappy with Goldwings are people who only wish to get the license without any effort and who also wish to only get positive feedback.... later on such people wonder why no airline wish to have them and no one want to hire them as instructor or even send on a solo PIC flight..... Please if someone only wish to get the license without any effort pick some other school.
For your information honey, I’m already in an airline Iberia if you are wondering (Muuuak and kisses :D) in addition have been accepted to wizzair too and definitely not your student for the CPL IR ME thank god! I wanted to do only UPRT because you were selling a fast training argument and at that time I was in Warsaw. Lie over lie!
Ain’t you ashamed? By the way why in some forums in PPRUNE you are saying that you are a STUDENT?

Don’t worry here in Spain and in France too you are a celebrity but sadly known.
You almost ****** up my entrance for type rating with your delays on UPRT because it was needed ;)
But maybe you can give advice to some of your flight Instructors who are lack CRM. With the pig faced Bartek who is the piece of **** of humanity so unprofessional the way to have commercial experience is flying in your own planes… and scamming people.

and people GENERAL ADVICE (mes Français y Mis amigos españoles) : Flight schools in Poland are great I did my CPL IR ME in a different school here my wife is from here too ;) . AVOID THIS SCHOOL LIKE PLAGUE. There are better school out there extremely professional. This school unfortunately will give a very bad image of the country…

kisses and hugs from Madrid.

[Mwii78]

Its a shame that this guy is defending them since 2019 😂 man they made you finish you CPL/IR on your last day before you ATPL expires and you made a good job in your ATPL as I remember done from second attempt, but its so sad looking at you licking bartek’s ass just for the sake of that FI job. I was a student there too and I can’t express how bad the quality of training is. The ****ty treatment. The un qualified instructors with very poor English to explain. The poor management. The un mannered discipline .The racism. And there is many many more
Maybe two or three instructors are the good ones they are airlines pilots and they come to goldwings just for the sake of money otherwise they talk **** about bartek and his way of treatment. He terrorize everyone at school his instructors , his students , his office guys. Which is a very healthy environment for a flight school 😂
He thinks so much of himself and in reality he is just a dumb pig born to an abusive drunk parents which reflects on his behavior.

please guys for your sake and the hardworking money that you gathered to become pilots avoid this school at any cost! He is a lovely guy before you sign the contract but once you sign he owns you and you are his slave not his student! If you do a mistake he makes sure he break your confidence and treat you like **** and even makes fun of you infront of his instructors (slaves for money). No creativity in teaching and correcting students only shouting and offending them. Its just demand no effort is given in teaching at this school , cause when you are working for such a guy you hate your life and show zero interest in your profession.

one more fun thing he makes his FI students teach PPL students as the theory part for their FI course 😂😂 full slavery!! He is Not paying the FI student for the classes and taking money from the PPL student for their theory part! And not providing the FI student the theory part that he needs to become an FI.
A very professional flight school! Wow! just wow!
kt1988 you’re saying you need to give effort and have quality to join goldwings huh? If the PPL students are being tought this way then i guess we all agree that that goldwings is the one that needs to put effort and seek quality!


If i want to talk about them I won’t be able to stop its one of the worst schools in poland if not the worst!

ps. My account is new cause i never had an account on pprune and made it just after reading this thread cause i felt like people should actually know about this scamwings of yours. Polish people already know because he is famous for “fat pig” with ****ty personality across poland. This is just for the foreigners to not fall for this trap!
so don’t attack me with your bull**** line that you always are saying that we are from other schools and want goldwings to have a bad image cause they are competing with them! Goldwings doesn’t have **** to compete, if it wasn’t for that uni program and nordica that he landed. they would be bankrupt by now!

When there is plenty of bad reviews from different people all saying same **** and non positive other then you, that must explain everything so please have some dignity and stop bending over for bartek! And let the people know the real image

regards and wishes to the pilot from spain happy landings! Only that guy so don’t include yourself please 😂

[KT1988]

@Flyingsailor93 I was a student you can even see my posts about choosing the school and it was only random luck that I chose Goldwings (some office guy did not bother to do effort (no longer works there) and told me the course 0 to FI(A) rating is more expensive not cause of the FI(A) rating but because Cessna use more fuel than PS-28) so I called some other school and it was like talking with a telemarketer "everyone get to the airlines, everything is superfast and everyone pass etc itd." so I called another one but they did not have time to talk then I called Goldwings again but happily Captain Jesionek answered me then and explained everything super honestly about getting to the airlines about the training and everything. If someone do not understand negative feedback on their flying its not lack of CRM on the side of Instructors, also most of the Instructors are super patient and understand people do extremely strange and dangerous stuff, Captain Jesionek do not fly with everyone as I said only people who he believe will learn something from his training. If he flew with you then it was probably because you did not send the e-mail to the correct address and showed up at the school wanting to fly and the school could not just conjure another instructor who was not expecting someone to be available.

That I chose to cooperate with the school is because it was so professional and I believed in the project not being some "telemarketer just get the license stuff" but a real school that also now provide integrated training and is developing all the time. No one would invest in something they did not believe in....

Oh and BTW look at the previous posts people it looks 100 % like some other flight school making them first the guy says he did not get his training, then he changes nicks claims he did the training and now back to the original nick also claim to have done the training and to be from France/Spain. So he did claim he was not finished in January but sadly for this claim in flightlogger there are atm only Polish students active in UPRT there is no discontinued French/Spanish student and there is no French/Spanish student who finished UPRT in January. So kind of looks something is wrong with this story.

Finally the guy claimed to not have finished his training in mid January, now he did in like 1 week manage to get through the assessment at Wizzair and at Iberia choosing the Iberia before Wizzair. Does this not sound a little bit strange? Like kind of some other school posting? There is literally no french/spanish guy active or finished or discontinued in January + the guy pass 2 assessments in 1 week and is starting the typerating. Either its a story of someone who did the training loooong ago and did not read the aircraft will be at the school in October 2022 so he decided to spice up and make up a better story OR its a story from some other flightschool that struggle to rent UPRT aircraft since they do not have their own.

Once again if someone just want the license please choose some other school, if someone want to do some effort and for real wish to learn to fly and also can accept not only positive feedback then check out Goldwings.

[Flyingsailor93]

@Flyingsailor93 I was a student you can even see my posts about choosing the school and it was only random luck that I chose Goldwings (some office guy did not bother to do effort (no longer works there) and told me the course 0 to FI(A) rating is more expensive not cause of the FI(A) rating but because Cessna use more fuel than PS-28) so I called some other school and it was like talking with a telemarketer "everyone get to the airlines, everything is superfast and everyone pass etc itd." so I called another one but they did not have time to talk then I called Goldwings again but happily Captain Jesionek answered me then and explained everything super honestly about getting to the airlines about the training and everything. If someone do not understand negative feedback on their flying its not lack of CRM on the side of Instructors, also most of the Instructors are super patient and understand people do extremely strange and dangerous stuff, Captain Jesionek do not fly with everyone as I said only people who he believe will learn something from his training. If he flew with you then it was probably because you did not send the e-mail to the correct address and showed up at the school wanting to fly and the school could not just conjure another instructor who was not expecting someone to be available.

That I chose to cooperate with the school is because it was so professional and I believed in the project not being some "telemarketer just get the license stuff" but a real school that also now provide integrated training and is developing all the time. No one would invest in something they did not believe in....

Oh and BTW look at the previous posts people it looks 100 % like some other flight school making them first the guy says he did not get his training, then he changes nicks claims he did the training and now back to the original nick also claim to have done the training and to be from France/Spain. So he did claim he was not finished in January but sadly for this claim in flightlogger there are atm only Polish students active in UPRT there is no discontinued French/Spanish student and there is no French/Spanish student who finished UPRT in January. So kind of looks something is wrong with this story.

Finally the guy claimed to not have finished his training in mid January, now he did in like 1 week manage to get through the assessment at Wizzair and at Iberia choosing the Iberia before Wizzair. Does this not sound a little bit strange? Like kind of some other school posting? There is literally no french/spanish guy active or finished or discontinued in January + the guy pass 2 assessments in 1 week and is starting the typerating. Either its a story of someone who did the training loooong ago and did not read the aircraft will be at the school in October 2022 so he decided to spice up and make up a better story OR its a story from some other flightschool that struggle to rent UPRT aircraft since they do not have their own.

Once again if someone just want the license please choose some other school, if someone want to do some effort and for real wish to learn to fly and also can accept not only positive feedback then check out Goldwings.

You are a very stupid person excuse me saying that after all your lies.You are the shame of Poland and aviation. Now it’s time to dismantle one by one of your lies. Look on the screenshots.

First, you said the email address ato@goldwings is not working maybe I was receiving replies from ghosts maybe szymon is a ghost maybe Gosha is a host maybe your pig faced Bartek is a ghost? All these person i was trying to deal JUST JUST TO GET A ******* 2 day training.

Second,you said I’m not a student? Why do I have each time I should do the UPRT (2 days training) it was cancelled let me remind you that’s the reason I wrote in this thread to warn people that you guys take 3 months to do a 2 days training (I’m not inventing it look on the screenshots WITH YOUR RESPECTIVE EMAILS and the flightlogger cancellations) Even programming an UPRT training on an ALSIM you guys are bad at programming too.

Your called captain Jesionek Je ne sais quoi de mes couilles can’t know me because bitch we have NEVER flown due to your cancellation and lot of excuses.

Third, bitch not everybody is a lying **** like you. People have integrity and respect to not lie on them asses. Yes that’s the proof you are again scammers and lying bitches you don’t even know if you have had a french/ Spanish student that’s so sad…

Fourth, when you said your zlin was at the hangar waiting for students you are lying you zlin is at the hangar because it had a technical issue (hit at the door) :D as stated in your emails.

Last, since you are a lying bitch next week I’m in Warsaw to see my wife. I propose you to meet in person so we will take a video of our meeting everybody will know who you are deal? It’s a PITY I can’t upload voice recording I have all the calls recorded with your stupid ass saying bull**** !

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1125x1208/6940ec36_0f70_4910_bae6_181707125310_d9d2bf0e3b31a7701cfe86c f49fd215af2291f1e.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1125x2000/fff295fe_1b67_495f_ad94_261c75b08349_762254cfab620152ec12e8a c1a64ce1ecd23bbf9.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1125x2000/14f875fe_82c5_45d2_aea4_db2d6f90b868_a331e3202a850ab56ea0a50 18b6472fea25076cc.jpeg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1125x2000/8942e388_57a1_409e_b91b_892cb3d85861_d9411185e47e16c3f2379f3 df8d25e2cf4e2dd35.jpeg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1125x2000/dcaa4d44_b509_4e9a_a351_f47f10873043_d53410dca29db83dc2faaf6 62362df1a90d657f9.jpeg


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1125x1078/532140bc_a176_4a92_befe_d80eb637a6db_c21149307713d93c6ef048d d29a30e11c03cb741.jpeg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/920x2000/b095cae0_3bca_42e4_946d_337e645cd2ad_54a7e2144f5cca1f5c3d8fb 4a5ca4e0a02e1ec38.png
3months of cancelling 3 ******* months

[Flyingsailor93]

You have been warned After all the proof of interminable cancelling of a 2 day training you will lost your energy and time with these persons.

Les gars si vous etes Français et Que vous lisez ceci ne vous faites pas arnaquer vous allez perdre votre temps et votre argent. Ces gens sont des menteurs pire que Binochon vous savez de qui je parle en France…c’est la Elle reputation de fils de pute.

Chicos si sois españoles no os dejáis engañar esta escuela es peor que Rajoy y su gobierno si debéis hacer vuestro UPRT quedaos en España! Ganarías tiempo y energía. Estos son chingadas de su Puta madre. Viejos de la cama. :)

[KT1988]

@flyingsailor93: I do not have access to the ato address and IT IS NOT THE ADDRESS where you are supposed to send your availability. Its written on the front page of flightlogger where you should send your availability but none was sent or it would have been solved long ago since aircraft do not earn money if its not flying. There is like 200 completed advanced UPRT students so instead of going one by one I looked at bookings in January and there is literally no one Spanish/French who completed it in January. Or wait I found now one going person by person but strangely there is no training included just information that medical was uploaded in January.

So there is literally no trace in the system about any training, still you claim it was completed in January and in 1 week you managed to get invited and pass assessments at Iberia + Wizzair and even started the type rating.

I have no idea about your possible training or delays since it was all done with the wrong address that I have no access to and no training is filled in the system. What I do know is that 200 people completed the course sent proper mails and got their training on time. Please contact the people who you claim to have talked with on the wrong address. There is literally NO reason if you registered 7th November that the training was not completed long ago unless there is something I do not know about the case other than sending the mail not to the proper address.

There are students from Spain, Portugal and France on full training 0-ATPL(A) and they are happy sending the e-mail to proper address and receiving the training, there is even an Instructor from Portugal who completed the training and is training new students who have their course in English. I can not say anything more about your case since 1. never received the mail on proper address 2. there is no information about anything in flightlogger other than date of start and date of uploading the medical and for some strange reason its marked completed without anything taking place and not discontinued.

PS. I am not in Warszawa at the moment but in Norway visiting my parents, I was only in Warszawa in the summer for my training. I will be there first in May probably to do the IR/SE over to IR/ME and then do some training for instructor rating maybe if I find out its a point (airlines again needing people for real like before COVID (its why your story of passing 2 assessments in 1 week sounds very strange to say the least). I am an investor and I have my own business so I do not need to earn money on my flying but if I see there is demand then I will prepare properly so I am 100 % sure I can answer any technical question and fly every possible task in the SIM (just like before ATPL(A) exams that I passed with 1st time pass and over 90 % average) IF I find out I wish to fly in an airline for the experience not because I have to. The only thing I do is oversee digitally that people get their training but if they skip reading flightlogger and skip sending the availability to the proper address then its nothing I can do because then I have no idea they do even exist..........

[Flyingsailor93]

@flyingsailor93: I do not have access to the ato address and IT IS NOT THE ADDRESS where you are supposed to send your availability. Its written on the front page of flightlogger where you should send your availability but none was sent or it would have been solved long ago since aircraft do not earn money if its not flying. There is like 200 completed advanced UPRT students so instead of going one by one I looked at bookings in January and there is literally no one Spanish/French who completed it in January. Or wait I found now one going person by person but strangely there is no training included just information that medical was uploaded in January.

So there is literally no trace in the system about any training, still you claim it was completed in January and in 1 week you managed to get invited and pass assessments at Iberia + Wizzair and even started the type rating.

I have no idea about your possible training or delays since it was all done with the wrong address that I have no access to and no training is filled in the system. What I do know is that 200 people completed the course sent proper mails and got their training on time. Please contact the people who you claim to have talked with on the wrong address. There is literally NO reason if you registered 7th November that the training was not completed long ago unless there is something I do not know about the case other than sending the mail not to the proper address.

There are students from Spain, Portugal and France on full training 0-ATPL(A) and they are happy sending the e-mail to proper address and receiving the training, there is even an Instructor from Portugal who completed the training and is training new students who have their course in English. I can not say anything more about your case since 1. never received the mail on proper address 2. there is no information about anything in flightlogger other than date of start and date of uploading the medical and for some strange reason its marked completed without anything taking place and not discontinued.

PS. I am not in Warszawa at the moment but in Norway visiting my parents, I was only in Warszawa in the summer for my training. I will be there first in May probably to do the IR/SE over to IR/ME and then do some training for instructor rating maybe if I find out its a point (airlines again needing people for real like before COVID (its why your story of passing 2 assessments in 1 week sounds very strange to say the least). I am an investor and I have my own business so I do not need to earn money on my flying but if I see there is demand then I will prepare properly so I am 100 % sure I can answer any technical question and fly every possible task in the SIM (just like before ATPL(A) exams that I passed with 1st time pass and over 90 % average) IF I find out I wish to fly in an airline for the experience not because I have to. The only thing I do is oversee digitally that people get their training but if they skip reading flightlogger and skip sending the availability to the proper address then its nothing I can do because then I have no idea they do even exist..........

Since you are very stupid go online and look all airlines are recruiting. Specially Iberia who did several recruitment sessions FOR SPANISH LOW TIMERS since NOVEMBER 2022 . Wizzair every ******* month they are organising assesments. Do you want proof? I have them too ;). I’m telling you that the training HAD TO BE DONE IN NOVEMBER . AND IT HAVE NEVER BEEN DONE because you guys were cancelling it during 3 months.
Remind a UPRT training have to be done before type rating so yes bitch I have been taken but the type rating started in January! So I had to do it anywhere else and cancel your lying asses.
And I’m telling you all the email possible GOAHA, BARTEK, SZYMON, ALL THOSE EMAIL AND WITHOUT COUNTING THE PHONECALLS!( recorded of course) so if my availability have not been seized why the **** I have cancelled flight?? Are you dumb?

I can find you in Norway wherever you are don’t worry I have plenty of time. Any time you want anywhere you want in the world !

last I’m going to upload the records on YouTube so I’ll be able to put it here.

So deal we meet this week where ever you want and whenever you want it’s up to you honey ;) (it’s not a marriage request hahahah)

[KT1988]

@Flyingsailor93: Well imagine the people with access to ato address also can book people? But strangely all trace of it is no longer there. IF you sent the e-mail to the proper address that I have access too then the training would be completed in November, I have no idea people who do not send it to the proper address do even exist since HOW?

If you wish to travel to Norway then it will be closest for you from TORP airport and then 55 km to Skien so I can show you I literally had no idea you existed and you never sent an e-mail to the proper address. I do not know anything else about your case so please contact the people who possibly "failed" to book your training. Maybe there is something else about your case I have no idea about. But what I do know 100 % is that you did never send the e-mail to the proper address and I did never even know you existed or wanted any training. I do also know there are students from Portugal/Spain/France on 0-ATPL(A) training who care to read where to send their mail and receive their slots and are very happy about the training. There is also an Instructor from Portugal who completed the FI(A) training put effort into it and is now training other students who have their course in English and is also very happy with the training.

I have no idea about your case and there is literally NO reason why you would not get the training when people who sent mail to the correct address were getting their training all the time. What would be the point to not give training to ONE person? There have to be some other story to the case and its what you should take with the persons you talked with since you obviously skipped the place where you should send your availability so I had no chance to know you do even exist.

[Flyingsailor93]

@Flyingsailor93: Well imagine the people with access to ato address also can book people? But strangely all trace of it is no longer there. IF you sent the e-mail to the proper address that I have access too then the training would be completed in November, I have no idea people who do not send it to the proper address do even exist since HOW?

If you wish to travel to Norway then it will be closest for you from TORP airport and then 55 km to Skien so I can show you I literally had no idea you existed and you never sent an e-mail to the proper address. I do not know anything else about your case so please contact the people who possibly "failed" to book your training. Maybe there is something else about your case I have no idea about. But what I do know 100 % is that you did never send the e-mail to the proper address and I did never even know you existed or wanted any training. I do also know there are students from Portugal/Spain/France on 0-ATPL(A) training who care to read where to send their mail and receive their slots and are very happy about the training. There is also an Instructor from Portugal who completed the FI(A) training put effort into it and is now training other students who have their course in English and is also very happy with the training.

I have no idea about your case and there is literally NO reason why you would not get the training when people who sent mail to the correct address were getting their training all the time. What would be the point to not give training to ONE person? There have to be some other story to the case and its what you should take with the persons you talked with since you obviously skipped the place where you should send your availability so I had no chance to know you do even exist.

Of course you won’t have ANY idea about my case since the beginning you do is denying and saying everything is perfect in your school. And it’s simple let me summarise.
I wanted a UPRT training in November and made the same day a payment of 1600€. Your school told me oh it can be done in 2 days.
then one week I didn’t heard of you. I called and your board said « you have to send your availability » I sent it and I receive as the screenshots shows a reply’s of schedule. And then every damn time you were cancelling the training. I didn’t receive any training. Till January I came to the school and told you guys I can’t continue like that for three months I have a type rating coming ! That’s the beginning of allll of this. Instead of listening what the hell people say you automatically denied the problem. Since you don’t want to collaborate we will do it in the violent way.
​

AGAIN, I repeat ato@goldwings were NOT THE ONLY EMAIL they told me to send email I have called talked with szymon ,GOSHA, your desk office and none of them were able to make a proper programming FOR 3 MONTHS.The limits of the patience here are attained

And if you failed to receive my email WHY there were cancellation of the flights I said I was available on that same email???

Or you don’t understand maybe I should say it in Portuguese or you behave like you don’t understand ****. In both cases it’s a stupid behaviour.
And I assure you, your gaslighting won’t work I do assure you as a former Navy Officer I’ll NOT LET THAT SINK. Integrity and honesty are a religion for me! You can scam who ever you want, lie to whoever you want but me no. I’ll deploy all the means necessary to make you pay your dishonesty!

And that’s great hit me on private I’ll take your phone number and let you know band clarify this situation.

[KT1988]

@flyingsailor93: Well then ask Gosia and Szymon (he is only an Instructor BTW) why you have not received your training. You have not sent the mail to the address on the frontpage of the flightlogger. Instructors and different people at the school can also book and cancel lessons. No where on your screenshots is a reply from the proper address where the availability should be sent.

I have no idea about your case but it sounds totally strange to me why they would skip ONE person on purpose and perform the training for everyone else. What would be the point? Like OH lets scam that one single guy its gonna be perfect and train the 200 other guys...... it does not make any sense and there have to be more to this story than only not sending the e-mail to the proper address.

[Flyingsailor93]

@flyingsailor93: Well then ask Gosia and Szymon (he is only an Instructor BTW) why you have not received your training. You have not sent the mail to the address on the frontpage of the flightlogger. Instructors and different people at the school can also book and cancel lessons. No where on your screenshots is a reply from the proper address where the availability should be sent.

I have no idea about your case but it sounds totally strange to me why they would skip ONE person on purpose and perform the training for everyone else. What would be the point? Like OH lets scam that one single guy its gonna be perfect and train the 200 other guys...... it does not make any sense and there have to be more to this story than only not sending the e-mail to the proper address.

Dear,
look carefully on the screenshots AGAIN AND AGAIN FLIGHTS WERE BEING CANCELLED WE ARE BOT TALKING ABOUT AVAILABILITY HERE. FLIGHTS HAVE BEEN CANCELLED MORE THAN TEN TIMES with lot of excuses THATS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT!
IM not an isolated guy who have been scammed if you go up in this thread there are others who have the same version.

So stop denying and putting the problem on the others.
Instead fix your organisation and put some discipline on it. Maybe if you need I can ask my colleagues from the military to show you how to be disciplined and how to talk to people!

By the way I’m waiting your reply in private message this week I’ll find you wherever you are ;)

[KT1988]

@Flyingsailor93: I have already replied to your PM, I can prove you that you never sent the mail to the correct address and once again as I said people like Instructors can book and cancel lessons but if the mail is not sent to the correct address I have no possibility to know about it. The other guy in the thread is claiming he completed the training but was unhappy about Captain Jesionek being his instructor and that he had to wait (it was before October 2022) for the UPRT aircraft. After October no one else than you have waited for UPRT training at least no one who sent mail to the correct address and who I do know about.

The only previous real student was unhappy with the Instructor trying to learn her how to fly and got a reply from the Instructor. No one else for 1000s of trained students as you can see......

[Flyingsailor93]

@Flyingsailor93: I have already replied to your PM, I can prove you that you never sent the mail to the correct address and once again as I said people like Instructors can book and cancel lessons but if the mail is not sent to the correct address I have no possibility to know about it. The other guy in the thread is claiming he completed the training but was unhappy about Captain Jesionek being his instructor and that he had to wait (it was before October 2022) for the UPRT aircraft. After October no one else than you have waited for UPRT training at least no one who sent mail to the correct address and who I do know about.

The only previous real student was unhappy with the Instructor trying to learn her how to fly and got a reply from the Instructor. No one else for 1000s of trained students as you can see......

You have a serious situational awareness and a serious understanding abilities as an “investor” .
The UPRT training I have been charged 1600€ proof (by the way till the end of this day if you don’t give me back my money I’ll seize a prosecutor and the Polish Authorities).

Last, it’s not my problem the other guy you made pass as being a fake account and a “flight school” competing with goldwings.
im pointing out the way you are conducting you UPRT training! And as I told you I didn’t only use one email to communicate with the school.
it’s called redundancy. I called you too by the way should teach Bartek to listen and be polite on the phone. (Oh do you want a record wait I’ll provide you one yeah I’m a person of proof) Again in the military there is some drill to teach people how to behave with integrity and honesty. And TAKE RESPONSIBILITY instead of blaming a shadow enemy.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1125x2000/e73307bc_ba70_4fbe_ae86_0f776c67724c_13750be0e436b2de454a16a f1bee694e583c6d31.jpeg

[KT1988]

@Flyingsailor93: I have no idea what the administration have done and why, but the only place I can monitor and where you should send your availability you have not sent it and information about it is in flightlogger. I will contact the other people to explain this stuff because its totally pointless to not schedule one person when everyone else is performing the training. The other guy did too perform it looks like just was unhappy with times BEFORE October 2022 and that his instructor was Captain Jesionek. Also that other person failed to send the mail to the proper address to get scheduled with the regular Instructors.

Just reminding that there are over 1000 students who completed the full training at Goldwings and 200 UPRT students who completed only the UPRT.... only one person did not get the training so there must be some reason to it and someone will for sure explain it.

PS. I just called the school and recieved the reply from the person you were dealing with. So 1. they say you got the theory course for UPRT and JOC. 2. The cancellations were due to weather. 3. You got your practical flight and it was supposed to be with Captain Jesionek. BUT before the flight with spin recovery lesson in it you were unable to answer the instructor how you are going to recover from the spin. So the instructor told you that you have to know this before you can fly since its pointless if you do not even know in theory how to recover from spin. Then they say that you felt offended with the feedback that you do not know your theory and refused to continue the training with the school.

So there you can see everyone it was a reason behind it I just had no idea about this students existence and why he did not get his training.

[Senior Pilot]

Flyingsailor93 your posts have been allowed to date but if you persist with your bad language and aggressive tone, this thread will be closed.

[Flyingsailor93]

Flyingsailor93 your posts have been allowed to date but if you persist with your bad language and aggressive tone, this thread will be closed.

My bad.

[hamburgerboy]

@Flyingsailor93: I have no idea what the administration have done and why, but the only place I can monitor and where you should send your availability you have not sent it and information about it is in flightlogger. I will contact the other people to explain this stuff because its totally pointless to not schedule one person when everyone else is performing the training. The other guy did too perform it looks like just was unhappy with times BEFORE October 2022 and that his instructor was Captain Jesionek. Also that other person failed to send the mail to the proper address to get scheduled with the regular Instructors.

Just reminding that there are over 1000 students who completed the full training at Goldwings and 200 UPRT students who completed only the UPRT.... only one person did not get the training so there must be some reason to it and someone will for sure explain it.

PS. I just called the school and recieved the reply from the person you were dealing with. So 1. they say you got the theory course for UPRT and JOC. 2. The cancellations were due to weather. 3. You got your practical flight and it was supposed to be with Captain Jesionek. BUT before the flight with spin recovery lesson in it you were unable to answer the instructor how you are going to recover from the spin. So the instructor told you that you have to know this before you can fly since its pointless if you do not even know in theory how to recover from spin. Then they say that you felt offended with the feedback that you do not know your theory and refused to continue the training with the school.

So there you can see everyone it was a reason behind it I just had no idea about this students existence and why he did not get his training.

Spin recovery in basic trainers isn't rocket science. Chair fly PARE a few times and you're good to go (with FI). Can understand that someone would get frustrated if a hard to schedule flight would get cancelled over this.

[Flyingsailor93]

@Flyingsailor93: I have no idea what the administration have done and why, but the only place I can monitor and where you should send your availability you have not sent it and information about it is in flightlogger. I will contact the other people to explain this stuff because its totally pointless to not schedule one person when everyone else is performing the training. The other guy did too perform it looks like just was unhappy with times BEFORE October 2022 and that his instructor was Captain Jesionek. Also that other person failed to send the mail to the proper address to get scheduled with the regular Instructors.

Just reminding that there are over 1000 students who completed the full training at Goldwings and 200 UPRT students who completed only the UPRT.... only one person did not get the training so there must be some reason to it and someone will for sure explain it.

PS. I just called the school and recieved the reply from the person you were dealing with. So 1. they say you got the theory course for UPRT and JOC. 2. The cancellations were due to weather. 3. You got your practical flight and it was supposed to be with Captain Jesionek. BUT before the flight with spin recovery lesson in it you were unable to answer the instructor how you are going to recover from the spin. So the instructor told you that you have to know this before you can fly since its pointless if you do not even know in theory how to recover from spin. Then they say that you felt offended with the feedback that you do not know your theory and refused to continue the training with the school.

So there you can see everyone it was a reason behind it I just had no idea about this students existence and why he did not get his training.

Your cancellation due to weather during 3 months??
I remind you that there have been even week in Warsaw where it was CAVOK weather was ok you were flying. It’s really a pity o can’t upload a voice record here by the end of the day I’ll manage to and you will see that I did refuse to fly that day because I called you asking to cancel then you offered me a flight in precipitation without briefing.

You don’t do a briefing on a car on the way to the plane.

what I said was it was not professional to do it this way. I’m here for a training not a discovery flight once again this you unprofessional behaviour I’m pointing. But please patience I’ll manage to upload this record and it was not Jesionek it was Bartek for your information.

[hamburgerboy]

use Vocaroo

[Flyingsailor93]

use Vocaroo

https://we.tl/t-5046nYBV67

Dont worry everybody will be served… ;)
Proof of what I said since the beginning are here so now I’ll let the costumers judge.

[Flyingsailor93]

https://voca.ro/11uyhtRh4dMV

who in the world wants to do a UPRT training about spins and do a briefing IN A CAR??

Yes I’m a student not a top gun and I was here to LEARN ABOUT SPINS!!!

To precise this was the 17th of January when I called them to cancel my training with them due to 3 months cancellation and more and more excuses.

[Flyingsailor93]

https://voca.ro/16TlHrbMIJDA

Here is one of the thousands of call I have maid to have a 2 day training! It was the last Calll since I asked for reimbursement and cancel the training with them. Once again Bartek is always on the phone but we’re silent because he knew they didn’t do their job.

This is again another proof that the costumer can judge by itself. Do you want more so we can continue underlining the bad treatment you do on your students? If the UPRT training a 2 day training is like this I can’t imagine doing the CPL IR ME with you guys.

For me this is the last message on this thread I have some things to do. But don’t worry I’ll be sure that these proof goes everywhere and up to date.By the way I’m waiting for my reimbursement otherwise I’ll seize a prosecutor as simple as is it.

[hamburgerboy]

Recording just shows bad attitude from both sides

[Flyingsailor93]

Recording just shows bad attitude from both sides

Bad attitude there is no bad attitude here if you see I have been WAAAAY more calm than Bartek Shouting at people ;) .

And recording are not showing bad attitude recording are proof of YOUR unprofessional behaviour. By the way Bartek did you got a new pseudo mate? :)

Again let me resume you have passed from “You are a school who wants to mud throwing “
to “I don’t have any idea of who you are” to “Oh you are a bad student who doesn’t know about spin” to “recording is showing bad attitude on other sides” be coherent please.

Since the beginning I did what I said and said what I did with proof. What did you bring here certainly a non constructive argument instead it’s denying denying and denying and denying.

let me give you a commercial advice: Acountability.

you have to take into account what costumers says. Not trying to discredit the costumer.
Even with proof in front of you you will continue denying.

[Flyingsailor93]

At the end of the day you are the one who loses costumers. And I’m telling you I assure you that the behaviour at Goldwings will be known in the aviation sphere and I’m the military sphere in Spain and in France.
As we say in the Navy

Fair winds, and following seas ;)

[hamburgerboy]

Bad attitude there is no bad attitude here if you see I have been WAAAAY more calm than Bartek Shouting at people ;) .

And recording are not showing bad attitude recording are proof of YOUR unprofessional behaviour. By the way Bartek did you got a new pseudo mate? :)

Sure mate. Sounds like you're an integral part of the problem. goodluck

[Flyingsailor93]

Sure mate. Sounds like you're an integral part of your own problem. goodluck

The difference between you and me is I assume “my problems” and there is no problem here( The simple task is getting refunded and it’s all. ). The difference between you and me is I do take responsibility and integrity and honesty words that Goldwings don’t know in it’s vocabulary ;)

[Flyingsailor93]

Last why goldwings doesn’t make training contract for the UPRT training? ;)

The response is up.

[hamburgerboy]

The difference between you and me is I assume “my problems” and there is no problem here( The simple task is getting refunded and it’s all. ). The difference between you and me is I do take responsibility and integrity and honesty words that Goldwings don’t know in it’s vocabulary ;)

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/in-depth/anger-management/art-20045434

[Flyingsailor93]

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/in-depth/anger-management/art-20045434

Hahaha are you reflecting your own personal issues here? Mate we are talking about your school… by the you should advise Bartek that too ;)
I’ll add you this.

https://www.verywellmind.com/is-someone-gaslighting-you-4147470

the only way to tackle people like you is stop replying. So I’m going to stop replying good luck with your scamming issues. ;) auf Wiedersehen;) as the German say ;)

[Rymus]

There is nothing to talk about someone’s attitude if he is paying for training and instructor doesn’t even know his name. That’s shame.

[hamburgerboy]

Are you always this butthurt?

[KT1988]

@Flyingsailor93: First of all recording someone without informing that you are going to do it is against the Polish law but that is not my problem its yours and Captain Jesionek problem. And yes Bartek is Captain Jesionek first name.

Furthermore its just "epic" to hear you did not even wish to take part in refueling the aircraft, maybe preflight check is also something Instructor should do because the student does not need to know how to preflight check the aircraft?

1. The cancellations as we can see on your e-mails to the wrong address happened back in November you have the dates its no problem to check awiacja.imgw what weather it was those days and what kind of ceiling. Just remember for the spin training its not enough that the ceiling is BKN018 that is ok for a traffic pattern on EPBC since a spin to be safe have to be performed at high altitude. Hopefully you know it from theory and did not expect low altitude spin. Precipitation is not making VFR flights impossible, low visibility and ceiling is.

2. You were not having a briefing in the car (it was supposed to be performed before the preflight check) and you omitted the part where you got questions about how you go out of a spin. How do anyone think a lesson is going to go in practice if the student does not learn his memory items for spin recovery. When the aircraft is in a spin its no time to take out the checklist and read what should I do now, you must know what to do in theory from the theory lessons..... You are in the practical lesson flying to learn how to perform it manually but you have to know the theory and memory items before its any point to perform the practical lesson.

3. The user hamburgerboy have nothing to do with me or the flightschool I guess. Its just some other pprune user.

@hamburgerboy: You said: "Spin recovery in basic trainers isn't rocket science. Chair fly PARE a few times and you're good to go (with FI). Can understand that someone would get frustrated if a hard to schedule flight would get cancelled over this."

Well the point is that if someone does not know by memory the emergency procedure to recover a spin how on earth is the person supposed to perform it practically in the aircraft if the person have not memorized the procedure. Actually at Goldwings no one is allowed to fly solo traffic pattern without being able to tell spin and stall recovery procedures from memory. Not to even mention PIC flight. This is PPL(A) stuff and its kind of "wtf" when a person with CPL(A) comes and do not know how to recover from a spin. This person would be dead if some accidental spin happened to him.........

At Goldwings students do fly solo without Instructor and people do fly PIC alone not safety pilot for every flight like in many other flight schools. There is a reason for it its called students are required to do minimum effort, people who do not really wish to learn to fly please choose another school where you get quick license only. I can just imagine those people going a for a typerating and telling the TRI its no problem they do not remember the memory items before the flight cause they gonna learn it in the 737 while doing traffic patterns :E

[Entusiast777]

If the UPRT training a 2 day training is like this I can’t imagine doing the CPL IR ME with you guys.
.
I know a guy who spent 2 years on that, e.g. full course CPL ME IR, with the mentioned above "academy"
And another one who spent a month on MEP, 1 f****ng month on a training, which consists of 6 hours!!!
Once again, to warn everyone, consider twice or even more times before you apply to this "flight academy", unless you are from Poland and have the same xenophobic, careless, impolite and arrogant attitude to people like it is done in goldwings, then maybe you will feel great in this kind of environment.

[skyvector_]

I am not the type of person to write reviews about every negative experience I encounter, but I had to make an exception for this so-called "ATO' Simply put, stay far far far away from this school because they will not fulfill your needs. First of all, Bartek Jesionek (who somehow holds the title of Head of Training), runs the flight school like a dictator. The man is verbally abusive to students who voice their concerns and is very manipulative. Zero class, arrogant, conceded, and got fired from an air carrier so I've heard. Second of all, the school does not prepare any kind of written contract for your flight training which is a major red flag on its own; they have a reason for this that benefits their shady interests. Third of all, and probably the worst thing of them all, you will pay, and then be grounded for a very long, unknown period of time, completely unrelated to weather reasons. They simply lie about aircraft availability, giving you false timelines about "maintenance" updates, and students suffer waiting for many months, unable to complete their multi-rating because of a lack of aircraft availability. They possess only one multi-engine aircraft (SP-WFA). Business ethics and customer service are virtually nonexistent. I could not sound the alarm any louder, this is literally the worst scam I've ever encountered and you seriously can't make this stuff up. You pay lots of money upfront, fly a few hours, and then you're done. You will blindly wait many many weeks, asking for updates, calling them, emailing them not getting a single response, and getting nowhere while your friends at other schools are completing all their training in a matter of weeks when the weather is fine.

In conclusion, this is a gangster school, and I strongly discourage anyone from even considering this circus show. This is a perfect example of how you can get yourself into serious trouble when you don't do your research and due diligence when choosing a flight school. Please, learn from my mistakes so that you don't make them. I strongly advise everyone when choosing a flight school to do the following things:

1. Make sure the ATO signs a contract with you before any bank transfers are made (Contracts are industry standard in flight training and legitimate, reputable schools will always prepare one to protect you and themselves from liability).
2. Always do your research and talk to current and former students of the schools you are looking into, and get their honest opinions and reviews. I cannot stress how extremely important this step is.
3. Read forums such as this one, but be very careful about particular users who go above and beyond to defend a certain school that is met with negative reviews. In most cases, they are employees or owners hiding behind fake accounts, denying any criticism to defend their company's image. (Yes, I'm talking about you Bartek aka "Gruby" )
4. Do not get fooled by very attractive prices( that's how they get you)
3. Anywhere but Goldwings (their enterprise name is "Aviation Atsm Sp. z o.o. S.K.A." which is the real legal name of the school registered with the civil aviation authority in Poland)

If you got this far to the end, thank you for reading my post, and I hope this was helpful.


Yours Truly,

Just another guy who got scammed by Goldwings