GIV SP

[fuelling]

Hello Everyone,
My bosses are looking at purchasing a 2001 Gulfstream GIV SP, this is for non revenue private operations, are these aircraft widely used around Europe, will there be available crew to fly it or is it mostly used in the US. As a note the aircraft will be placed on an EU/Isle of Man/Guernsey registration, the other aircraft being considered is a Challenger 604, which would you consider the better aircraft for Europe.

[LGW Vulture]

I love it when people make multi million dollar investment decisions based on answers from a message board.

Long live ignorance.

[fuelling]

Hi LGW Vulture,
Its not a decision based on a message board, I was simply asking for an opinion of the 2 types based on a crewing and maintenance perspective, The management have advisors, but it doesn't hurt to ask a question in a forum where you should get an answer which isn't just to "feather ones cap"

[BizJetJock]

From a crewing perspective there are far more Challenger pilots in Europe than GIV pilots, largely because the type rating is common with a type still in production. Most GIV owners have moved on to something a bit more up to date.
Having said that, if you want good crew you are far better off finding good people and type rating them if needed,rather than hiring idiots who happen to have the right piece of paper. It can cost you a lot more in the long run!

Good luck.

[Journey Man]

...if you want good crew you are far better off finding good people and type rating them if needed...

It'll never catch on...

[His dudeness]

Gulfstream GIV SP, are these aircraft widely used around Europe, will there be available crew to fly it or is it mostly used in the US.

No, no and yes.

As for crew, see BJJ post.

[flyboyike]

..it doesn't hurt to ask a question in a forum where you should get an answer which isn't just to "feather ones cap"...

It doesn't help much either, as you will soon discover.

[AVIM]

The GIV-SP (GIV) shares a type with the GIV, the G400, and the G300. EASA only requires familiarization training between all.
The Challenger 604 (CL604/605) shares a type with the Challenger 605 & Challenger 650. Differences training is required between 604 and the 605/650.

The GIV-SP, GIV, G300, and G400 have 7, 4, 1, and 1 models in Europe respectively as of DEC 31, 2018. (13 Total)
The Challenger 604, Challenger 605, and Challenger 650 have 55, 45, and 16 models in Europe respectively as of DEC 31, 2018. (116 Total)

If type-ready crews are a priority, Challenger could be a better bet.
As some in this thread have said, the right people are always a good investment.

Hope this helps.

[g450cpt]

What is the mission? That is the question that needs to be answered in order to determine which aircraft better suits your company.

[Proline21]

If Europe only is the mission (so no Atlantic crossings frequently) why not consider a Embraer Legacy 600 with low hours/cycles. Very large cabin, low operating costs and the largest baggage hold of all types in the same category of aircraft. On top of that very low TR costs compared to Gulfstream and Challenger

[Global Aviator]

Yep without the mission profile it’s all guesswork.

As always with older aircraft as you well know it’s the hidden things during checks that catch ya. Corrosion for one.

There was a thread on here somewhere about an SP being sold parted out.....

The legacy is great as mentioned, cheaper to purchase, as it’s common to the 135 as said the ratings and recurrent cheap. Bit like a BBJ/ACJ ratings and renewals a slight of the cost of the corps, economies of scale.

Sounds like a great adventure and as the boss already understands aviation with the right advice the right machine won’t be far away.

[mutt]

The GIV isnt widely used in Europe as the previous owners have usually upgraded, but with the right equipment, it's an awesome aircraft and extremely reliable. There are limitations and gotcha's such as the new European ATN for CPDLC.
As for pilots, they are available but like everything else associated with the Gulfstream, they will cost more than the Challenger.
The first question that you have to answer is what is your mission, for most European missions the Challenger will be sufficient, but not for longer trips, sometimes logic doesnt play a role as the owner just wants the wow factor. Then it has to be the Gulfstream :):)

[fuelling]

The mission is mostly Europe, Uk based, a few longer trips to DXB and Asia but only on rare occasions, the same with USA maybe 2-3 times per year. Max passengers at any one time would be 4-5.

[Private jet]

The mission is mostly Europe, Uk based, a few longer trips to DXB and Asia but only on rare occasions, the same with USA maybe 2-3 times per year. Max passengers at any one time would be 4-5.

Then you definately want a Challenger.

[Deep and fast]

Then you definately want a Challenger.
Or a Falcon 2000, difference in fuel burn will be night and day. The Legacy 650 struggles to get back to uk from DXB but there are plenty of places to top up and the UK end.

[340drvr]

Or a Falcon 2000, difference in fuel burn will be night and day. The Legacy 650 struggles to get back to uk from DXB but there are plenty of places to top up and the UK end.

+1 on Deep and fast's recommendation, the Falcon 2000 is the first ship that came to mind with your stated mission profile.

[fuelling]

So an aircraft has been decided, Challenger 604 will be the type, I'm told it will be on Maltese register once a suitable aircraft is agreed.

[Private jet]

Or a Falcon 2000, difference in fuel burn will be night and day. The Legacy 650 struggles to get back to uk from DXB but there are plenty of places to top up and the UK end.

Depends on the winds, flight level and payload of course doesn't it. I've done Dubai to UK three times, in 604, during the winter, and routing around Syria. We departed with full fuel (or as near as you can get it with a Chally) and IIRC we still had nearly 1500kg at shutdown, which would obviously cover any diversion etc. But yes, if you have a "full house" of pax and bags then you'll need a stop on the way.