DXB Light Aircraft Crash

[Emma Royds]

A piston twin on a nav aid calibration flight crashed around 3 miles short of 30L this evening at DXB. The operator appears to be Flight Calibration Services from the UK with the type belived to be a Diamond DA62.

(Edited to mention that the total of four on board, have reported to have passed away. RIP)

[GordonR_Cape]

Outline article on BBC website: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48301828

Three Britons and a South African were aboard

[Repos]

Ok, thanks - new here. what is the procedure for getting threads deleted or merged?

[GordonR_Cape]

Ok, thanks - new here. what is the procedure for getting threads deleted or merged?

The moderators can merge thread eventually, though they can be contacted directly using thehttps://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/21x17/report_4ee5eea7fc63a2a2e0799fb300184b72e3999d7e.gif icon below your name on the left of the thread.

[Odins Raven]

What part of town did it come down? Article just says 3 miles south of the airport? I used to live about 3 miles south and have friends there.

[I'm not joking sir]

Mushrif Park

[Odins Raven]

Mushrif Park

Cheers. Not really south as reported and lucky it wasn’t closer to the City.

[mosquito077]

Cheers. Not really south as reported and lucky it wasn’t closer to the City.

what? You post this knowing no one was killed or hurt on the ground and you make no mention of the 4 lives lost. Get a grip of yourself and think about what you are posting.

RIP the 4 crew killed and my thoughts and prayers are with the next of kin.

[3db]

Difficult to have any idea what could have happened. The manoeuvres are all well within aircraft performance, nothing special in that sense. Also, as they are usually within 10miles or so of the airport facilities for ILS/marker calibration, it would seem to have happened very suddenly. RIP all.

[Max Tow]

Don't worry. Dubai Media Office reports all running smoothly at DXB following "a minor incident involving a small plane". Minor? Not for those involved & their loved ones...clearly the DMO needs some lessons in sensitive reporting and to extend their vocabulary with a few adjectives such as"sad" or "tragic".....

[ORAC]

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/17647008.four-killed-as-shoreham-plane-crashes-at-major-airport/

[Duchess_Driver]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48301828

Rest in peace, my friend - some good times throughout the years.

[red9]

Seems so bizarre with such qualified, experienced people on board , and good weather..... anybody got any clues ( trying to avoid gross speculation)...

[3db]

Anyone know if FlightRadar24 tracks non schedule flights? If yes, how do you find them. In my day (over 20yrs ago) Transponder was on with discreet squawk. If correct, Mushrif Park is the approach end of 30L. Hence they could have been performing an ILS calibration at the edges of the approved beam, either GS or LOC.

[eckhard]

Wake turbulence?

[Eau de Boeing]

Have they released the names yet? Know a few guys from cobham/FRA who moved on and wanted to check.

[red9]

Have they released the names yet? Know a few guys from cobham/FRA who moved on and wanted to check.

Likewise............

[Duchess_Driver]

For one, see the military aircrew section. Sad news.

[Eau de Boeing]

Thanks Duchess Driver, Saw DP but not the others.

[one dot right]

Eau de Boeing

you have pmail

[ironbutt57]

Wake turbulence?

that's my bet...

[Chilli Monster]

that's my bet...

It won’t be mine, having flown with the people concerned, flown the aircraft concerned, and done exactly the same job in Dubai (and lots of other places) with the same company.

ATC DXB are very aware of wake turbulence, so are the crews concerned. In addition the crew were incredibly experienced.

I honestly think this will be a “wait for the AAIB report” situation, long as it will be.

[Python27]

It won’t be mine, having flown with the people concerned, flown the aircraft concerned, and done exactly the same job in Dubai (and lots of other places) with the same company.

ATC DXB are very aware of wake turbulence, so are the crews concerned. In addition the crew were incredibly experienced.

I honestly think this will be a “wait for the AAIB report” situation, long as it will be.

No locals were flying the aircraft ; Therefore, we can expect the final report still by this century...

RIP...

[ironbutt57]

ATC DXB are very aware of wake turbulence

hmmm...not uncommon for an arriving aircraft to be at the top end of the GS causing a wake encounter with somebody who is following it properly, had this arise more than once arriving in Dubai...I sure wouldn't rule it out...

[Chilli Monster]

hmmm...not uncommon for an arriving aircraft to be at the top end of the GS causing a wake encounter with somebody who is following it properly, had this arise more than once arriving in Dubai...I sure wouldn't rule it out...

Ironbutt

1) This wasn’t near the top of the GS

2) Calibration flights aren’t vectored and sequenced like conventional arrivals

3) This wasn’t even to the runway in use

Take it from someone who knows - yes, conventional arrivals probably do get a little as you stated, where you stated. I don’t however think speculation is appropriate if you’re not familiar with the nature of the operation, which is very different to most “Conventional Aviators” understanding.

[ironbutt57]

by top of the glideslope I was referring to the deviation limits, not the top, or commencement of the final approach sector, in any vent, sad to hear, I'm sure the investigation will yield the true cause

[one dot right]

A local resident watched the plane take a gradual left turn towards the park.
https://gulfnews.com/uae/dubai-plane-crash-residents-noticed-low-flying-plane-shortly-before-mushrif-crash-1.64009994

So what? Nothing unusual about that.

[fatbus]

CFIT , no one paying attention?

[Chilli Monster]

CFIT , no one paying attention?

Obviously never flown a Calibration flight - I actually find your post rather insulting and disrespectful to the people involved.

[High Energy]

Wake turbulence?

If you have to believe the word around the campfire...yes. Non E*K aircraft. Again, rumor mill... RIP and strength to the families and loved ones involved.

[fatbus]

Chilli 1- you must be the worlds best pilot . Good for you . ESL ? It was simply an observation.

[yabaDabaDoo]

not as before ...unique conditions ....check ur facts

[one dot right]

.not as before ...unique conditions ....check ur facts

Care to enlighten us?

[lucille]

Why 4 POB? The DA42 is a single pilot aircraft and they would only need one engineer/technician to set up the recordings for each run.What were the other two doing?

[Duchess_Driver]

I believe it was a DA62, not the 42, but yes can be operated single crew.

[atakacs]

Why 4 POB? The DA42 is a single pilot aircraft and they would only need one engineer/technician to set up the recordings for each run.What were the other two doing?
Although not familiar of how things are done in DBX I asked myself the same question when I first read about the accident
As others have pointed out we might have a small chance for a decent investigation on this one.

[pilotguy1222]

Do they require more people for the approach light / runway light set up? ( whatever the technical name)

I believe this will be a wake accident. Approaches to 30R with light winds from the north...a bad recipe, especially if the campfire talk is true the DA called “traffic in sight”.

[lucille]

Only one technician in the back is all that’s required, he/she sets up the recording for the calibration run and communicates with ground navaid techs to get the desired settings on the ground equipment.

Wake turbulence is a possibility. Although if it’s any of the ILS components being checked, there can’t be any large pieces of metal between them and the transmitter thus precluding wake turbulence once the calibration run has been commenced.

Hell of a long way to ferry a DA62 just to calibrate half a dozen runways in the UAE. Interesting.

[pilotguy1222]

Although if it’s any of the ILS components being checked, there can’t be any large pieces of metal between them and the transmitter thus precluding wake turbulence once the calibration run has been commenced.

Ok. Thanks.

That was my understanding as well, but that would not be the case if the were working on the approach lighting.

This is is why CM’s post are a little off. If he/she had known they were working on the lights, maybe he/she could then see a possible wake encounter, especially given the wx conditions.

[Emma Royds]

I personally am not very hopeful for a report to be published as soon as we would like.

Something just doesn't add up here as the press has been drip fed information, some of which was incorrect to start off with and all traces of flight tracking data from the aircraft concerned, were removed from the internet within a couple of hours of the unfortunate event. When people sadly loose lives, it is nothing short of a tragic accident and not an incident, as it has been described both here in the UAE, as well as the UK.

Call me a cynic and I truly hope to be proved wrong for the sake of friends and relatives of those who passed away but I detect that there are people in this hot part of the world, who want this to be swept under the carpet.

[360BakTrak]

People in that hot part of the world are very keen to sweep all incidents under their very large carpet unfortunately......and they are quite often successful in doing so.

[3db]

Also note the AAIB web site does not mention the accident, to a G reg A/C. Something doesn't tie up here, at least on the information available at the present time. Flight inspection is different from "normal" flying, but I would not call it outside of normal parameters (possible exception is usually a high g turn at low level after a ILS calibration run, back to the starting point) - but if flying an uncalibrated ILS as if it was a calibrated ILS, you do need a strong stomach (mine is)! I was a technical manager and seldom flew with the team, many moons ago. Such a sad loss. Like others, I wait the fianl report, assuming it is published.

[horsebox]

https://www.bea.aero/en/investigation-reports/notified-events/detail/event/accident-to-the-airbus-a350-registered-hs-thk-and-operated-by-thai-airways-and-to-the-diamond-da62-r/

Preliminary data based on the notification from the Emirati authorities:

A Diamond DA-62 aircraft, registration mark G-MDME, was involved in a fatal accident while on approach to runway 30L of Dubai International Airport for a ground navigation equipment inspection flight. Video footage showed the aircraft encountered possible wake turbulence at about 1,100 ft, following an Airbus A350, which landed on the parallel runway 30R.

[ironbutt57]

glad I got my head bitten off for suggesting wake...rip....nasty unexpected surprise when it's from a parallel runway, but it can happen..

[Chilli Monster]

This is is why CM’s post are a little off. If he/she had known they were working on the lights, maybe he/she could then see a possible wake encounter, especially given the wx conditions.

When I was doing the job up to 18 months ago Wake Turbulence was never an issue, because I made sure I knew where and what the traffic was that could be a problem and gave it the requisite spacing. I never once had a wake turbulence encounter whilst doing Dubai, or any other airport because I have an inbuilt fear of being scared witless. Plus, it’s better to waste 30-60 seconds at the start of a run and get it right, than have to throw it away and waste 5-10 minutes repositioning to do it again.

Every other crew I would have thought operated in the same manner.

As for the comments about the DA62 being a single pilot aircraft - UK CAA mandates two pilots during Calibration operations, in addition to the flight Inspector in the back with the electronics.

Somebody mentioned taking the aircraft out there just to do 6 runways. Again, an incorrect assumption. At least one aircraft is kept in the Middle East to service contracts in the UAE, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, ad hoc work in Saudi and Kuwait, plus Bangladesh. At times there have been two out there working at the same time.

And it’s only a 2 1/2 day transit.

[Farrell]

I can vouch for the above.
The aircraft was a regular visitor to Oman for calibration work.

[pilotguy1222]

As a few have stated, wake turbulence.

https://www.thenational.ae/uae/dubai-airport-crash-warning-over-wake-turbulence-after-fatal-accident-1.878149

[The Outlaw]

glad I got my head bitten off for suggesting wake...rip....nasty unexpected surprise when it's from a parallel runway, but it can happen..

Ironbutt,
Its called "premature emasculation" and seems to be rife on this site. I thought the assumption of wake turbulence was quite valid which I based on 15 years of operating in Dubai but I guess some get sensitive about hearing what may possibly be the truth. In any case it's a sad loss for an event that could easily have been avoided based on present knowledge and technology.

I don’t however think speculation is appropriate if you’re not familiar with the nature of the operation, which is very different to most “Conventional Aviators” understanding.

Calibration operations may be different from commercial aviation but is not "unconventional aviation", IE approaches are flown and re-flown time and time again. Wake turbulence affects every type in varying degrees. I would like to think that DXB ATC will take something away from this accident but my feeling is that nothing will change. More spacing will mean less traffic/ hour and that is not in the interest of the airport operator. The EK 777 that tried the GA sans thrust initiated that GA due to becoming unstable due to wake turbulence which certainly is a contributing factor. Maybe someone in a big office somewhere with 3 pictures, dates and arabic coffee will make some changes....lets see.

[Emma Royds]

For those that may be interested, the GCAA has recently published their final report.

GCAA AAIS Final Report - G-MDME Diamond DA62 (https://www.gcaa.gov.ae/en/ePublication/admin/iradmin/Lists/Incidents%20Investigation%20Reports/Attachments/131/2019-AIFN0007-2019%20-%20Final%20Report.pdf)

[atakacs]

A very sobering read.

And a very comprehensive report.

[DCS99]

"Within two seconds of the second vortex encounter the Aircraft was inverted at an altitude of approximately 1,170 ft above ground, over an area of unlit parkland at dusk..."

Sobering.
Gives us all some perspective in these uncertain times.
Very thorough report, credit to the investigators and RIP the crew and observer.

[The Outlaw]

It won’t be mine, having flown with the people concerned, flown the aircraft concerned, and done exactly the same job in Dubai (and lots of other places) with the same company.

ATC DXB are very aware of wake turbulence, so are the crews concerned. In addition the crew were incredibly experienced.

I honestly think this will be a “wait for the AAIB report” situation, long as it will be.

Any further elaboration Chilli?

[The Outlaw]

Ironbutt

1) This wasn’t near the top of the GS

2) Calibration flights aren’t vectored and sequenced like conventional arrivals

3) This wasn’t even to the runway in use

Take it from someone who knows - yes, conventional arrivals probably do get a little as you stated, where you stated. I don’t however think speculation is appropriate if you’re not familiar with the nature of the operation, which is very different to most “Conventional Aviators” understanding.

Any further elaboration from " someone who knows "? Also, please define and explain "Conventional Aviation", is there something I missed in aerodynamics?