Low-flying complaints up in East Anglia

[XV490]

Does this report (https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/low-flying-aircraft-complaints-norfolk-and-suffolk-1-6044031) irritate anyone else as much as it did me? No doubt these moaners are newcomers to a region renowned for military aviation.

[Tankertrashnav]

"It's the sound of freedom".

There, I've said it before some other idiot does ! :*

[MPN11]

LFAs Five and 10 are home to a number of airbases including RAF Marham near King's Lynn, RAF Honington near Thetford and the American airbases of RAF Lakenheath and RAF Mildenhall.
Always good to see journalism in East Anglia maintaining its usual low standards by not keeping up to date. ;)

Perhaps the noise from the RAF Honington Voluntary Band was causing a problem?

[chevvron]

Always good to see journalism in East Anglia maintaining its usual low standards by not keeping up to date. ;)

Perhaps the noise from the RAF Honington Voluntary Band was causing a problem?
Missed out Watton and Coltishall.

[AnglianAV8R]

Well I moved to this region in 1986 and I have a complaint too, about the lack of low flying !
All we get now is the racket of clattercopters from Wattashambles and those awful colonial tilt things.
I gather our neighbours across the great divide (River Waveney) have some awfully loud stealth darts in the neighbourhood, but they're just not Jags.
Pfft, nostalgia aint wot it were.

[meleagertoo]

Sounds to me like a dedicated band of activists bigging up the complaint-count.
I live in E Anglia on what is evidently a training route and every year we get maybe four or five Hercs and the same number of Chinooks come by on the same track at very low level, if even that.
Fast jets? Two ot three a year maybe, all RAF. afaik the yanks don't do low flying though occasionally they make plenty of noise mid-level manoeuvering.
Apaches are sometimes seen bumbling about but don't have the startle factor of a fast jet or to some extent a Herc.

Compare that to fifteen years ago when 2FF2Rs right overhead were a three times a week occurrence. In my youth it was often several daily, often a stream of them in quick succesion.

There isn't a low flying nuisance around here, that's for sure.

[Asturias56]

"People who want to complain about low flying can do so by SWK-lowflying%40mod.gov.uk?subject=."

I'll bet that makes a hell of a racket - I wonder if it has terrain avoidance built in...........

[Wander00]

I don't believe it, teaching readin and ritin to East Anglians. they'll be doing rithmatic next, easier for them, more toes

[Two's in]

Strange how some of us can't quite complete the circle that military operations are an extension of the civil government 's policies, those policies include the democratic right to complain about how tax payers money is spent! Low flying complaints are proof that democracy is alive and well, not some subversive activism to ground Biggles.

[esa-aardvark]

Lived at West Raynam 1956-60.Skies full of Hunters, some Swifts, Navy Gannets (?)
Javelins, Meteors, US B45's(Skulthorpe). Father spent
a lot of time pulling bits of aircraft out of East Anglican woods and fields.
Loved those days. John

[phil9560]

Personally I'd buy a house because it was in a LFA.

[bobward]

in 2000Years ago I was happily looking forward to retirement as it meant I could indulge visits to the fences at the wealth of bases in Norfolk and Suffolk.
Then they closed Coltishall, Honington, Woodbridge, Bentwaters and Wattisham. Now it's so rare that I hear jets I'll go outside to look and see what's there.
Nobody seems to have cottoned on to the fact that these days most operational flying is going on at medium level, not in the weeds like it used to be.

The last low flying jet I saw was a USAF F15 around 500 feet running north up the Waveney Valley at Burgh Castle in November 2000: this is the only time I've ever seen this happen!
Quite what is causing all these complaints, I'd love to know, wouldn't you?

[BEagle]

Mind you, some people really don't help themselves.

I did a brief spell as an assistant Ops Off at pre-pongo Wattisham in the summer of 1983. One evening a lady rang us to complain about the noise of our F-4s. Which surprised me somewhat, given that the locals were normally very friendly and tolerant.

But she had a point. It seems that some utter d*ckhe*d had decided to return from a PI session over the North Sea by leading a pair at low level across most of Norfolk and a bit of Suffolk at high speed. At 20:00! Whatever for? That fell into the category of unnecessary low flying and she had every right to complain. When I rang the squadron to speak with the leader, he didn't give a toss...

Another bit of unnecessary low flying happened a little later - this time some idiot went over Beccles heliport below a hovering helicopter. Which just happened to have a CAA test pilot on board....

[dkh51250]

Waddo, late 1960s, a letter appeared in the Lincolnshire Echo. I assume it was written by a little old lady, a resident of Heighington. However, she wanted to know if there was any truth in the rumour, that Vulcans were mounted on turntables during ground runs? Her theory was that this was done to enable each village to get its fair share of the noise.

[typerated]

Mind you, some people really don't help themselves.

I did a brief spell as an assistant Ops Off at pre-pongo Wattisham in the summer of 1983. One evening a lady rang us to complain about the noise of our F-4s. Which surprised me somewhat, given that the locals were normally very friendly and tolerant.

But she had a point. It seems that some utter d*ckhe*d had decided to return from a PI session over the North Sea by leading a pair at low level across most of Norfolk and a bit of Suffolk at high speed. At 20:00! Whatever for? That fell into the category of unnecessary low flying and she had every right to complain. When I rang the squadron to speak with the leader, he didn't give a toss...

Another bit of unnecessary low flying happened a little later - this time some idiot went over Beccles heliport below a hovering helicopter. Which just happened to have a CAA test pilot on board....

There was something about low fly in the vicinity of base in the book. If I remember correctly stating that there was little value over familiar terrain (near base) andno point in p*ssing off the locals.
There again there was something about not going over the same location twice - which gets ignored these days on the Mach Loop - No wonder the locals get upset when low level just becomes a jolly

[Dan Winterland]

I was in the centre of Kings Lynn last Monday staring upwards at 2 F15s making a bit of noise while doing some ACT. After they had finished, I realised that nearly everyone around me had been looking up as well. The locals generally like aircraft and are aware of how much value is bought to the local economy by nearby RAF Marham. There's a lot of new housing in East Anglia, I suspect it's the newbies who should have done their research before becoming nimbys.

[typerated]

In Kings Lynn the local local language would be Polish?

So probably appreciate the sound of freedom?

[BEagle]

After they had finished, I realised that nearly everyone around me had been looking up as well.

Were the locals throwing bread for them, Dan? N4N!!

[papa_sierra]

Isn't Suffolk pothead central. I don't suppose they even notice the aircraft. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-48117678

[meleagertoo]

Isn't Suffolk pothead central. I don't suppose they even notice the aircraft. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-48117678

Peculiar connection you make between cocaine traces and potheads. Are they connected in some way? Or is it just whatever you've been smoking...?
;)

[papa_sierra]

Sniff, pee, treat,river, shrimp. OK

[[email protected]]

Took what appeared to be a low flying complaint recently in the South West - phoned through ATC.

When I rang the very nice lady back, she was actually concerned that our aircraft was deliberately making noise near her house so the local farmer, who had a planning application in for some wind turbines, could defend any criticism of his application on noise grounds by showing that it wasn't a quiet area.........

Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you:)

[2 TWU]

Years ago, there was a noise complaint about low flying JPs around Malham Tarn in a letter published in the Yorkshire Post. The next day, the local council published a reply saying they regarded the aircraft as a tourist attraction and asking everyone to ignore the complaint from someone who had just moved into the area!

A woman who moved into a house near the SW corner of the Dartmoor ranges, admittedly a low level choke point, complained endlessly. Her complaints could not be reconciled with know movements so she was asked to keep a log. Unknown to her, the RAF police also sat there for a week and recorded all movements. Every aircraft she saw, she multiplied the number by 10.

​​​​​​

[BEagle]

Every aircraft she saw, she multiplied the number by 10.

I didn't know that Diane Abbott lived near Dartmoor...

[Coltishall. loved it]

I'm all over Norfolk daily, and mostly f-15's medium level, once a week on average ish. since the new order at Marham…..saw 2 F35's under thick cloud over north Norwich around 2k feet around 3 weeks ago.
Aint seen one before or after? Are they actually flying them things or are they in the sim all day?

[superplum]

More complaints due soon (on or about 4 Jun) for HM's birthday flypast rehearsal. Hopefully this year they will be better and overfly my garden instead of being off-centre again.
:{

[Warmtoast]

RAF were plagued by low-flying and noise complaints as far back as 1951. My first experience of low flying noise complaints against the RAF was in Rhodesia.
In 1951 I was at 5 FTS, RAF Thornhill, S. Rhodesia and attach a photo of "Boggies Clock" decorated for Coronation Day 1953 in Main Street in the centre of Gwelo (now Gweru) the nearest town to RAF THornhill.
Mrs Jean Boggie lived in Gwelo for many years and was one of the town's most colourful characters. Her husband was a pioneer, and a member of the first Legislative Council. After his death in 1928, she erected this memorial clock tower, a familiar landmark to all who passed through the town. There was also a memorial panel inserted in the tower, commemorating the women, children and cattle and donkeys of the pioneers.
Mrs. Boggie was well known for her protests against the noise created by training aircraft from RAF Thornhill which flew over her farm. The noise, she claimed, prevented her hens from laying and her cows from being content! She was always remonstrating with the authorities and often made her views known through letters to the press. RAF Airmen driving past the clock, in a bus for example, were in the habit of making their feelings known about her protests by blowing a raspberry - but she still protested.
One of the first things one learnt on arrival at 5 FTS was that it was de rigueur to blow the raspberry as one passed the clock!


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x594/gwelo_20_20mrs_20boggies_20clock_zpsmulqftkx_ba154f6f65579c9 0749ac3c282e6c5e2f10815a3.jpg
It's still there, but Livingstone Avenue is now Robert Mugabe Avenue.


..and of course there was this lady who tried it on a couple of years ago and lost:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...nd/8408090.stm

[ShyTorque]

One couple moved into a house right on our airfield boundary and subsequently complained about aircraft flying at weekends. Well, that's what they had always done since 1941 when a UAS was first based there...

We had one old lady ring up to complain that the Chipmunks were deliberately changing gear over her house.

[Blossy]

During my Army Chipmunk training on one particular morning every student was ordered to report after landing. At the base of the control tower we were told a lady had telephoned to complain to the feared CFI about a low flying aircraft. She was said to have written down the serial number of the offender. We were all (or nearly all) worried as we had been in the area and might just have been lower than we ought by several hundred feet. The DCFI came out and asked if anyone wanted to admit their transgression. Nobody answered. The DCFI went back to his office and we continued to wait for what seemed like ages. Eventually we were dismissed and went to change out of flying gear. Shortly after we learned that the CFI who was not at his telephone when the lady had made the complaint phoned her up and asked for the serial number. Apparently the lady spelled out A.R.M.Y.

[Training Risky]

During my Army Chipmunk training on one particular morning every student was ordered to report after landing. At the base of the control tower we were told a lady had telephoned to complain to the feared CFI about a low flying aircraft. She was said to have written down the serial number of the offender. We were all (or nearly all) worried as we had been in the area and might just have been lower than we ought by several hundred feet. The DCFI came out and asked if anyone wanted to admit their transgression. Nobody answered. The DCFI went back to his office and we continued to wait for what seemed like ages. Eventually we were dismissed and went to change out of flying gear. Shortly after we learned that the CFI who was not at his telephone when the lady had made the complaint phoned her up and asked for the serial number. Apparently the lady spelled out A.R.M.Y.

Brilliant!

Incidentally, isn't A.R.M.Y. how you spell 'Joint'?

[Wander00]

Back in 66 at valley there was a noise complaint call from Holyhead Hospital about a Gnat circling, at night. Unsympathetic response from Duty Instructor in the tower was that the aircraft could not lower its undercarriage and that in the absence of a successful outcome the pilots might well become patients, if they survived!
Immediate change of tack from complainant, apologising for bothering and keenly offering any necessary assistance

[Tengah Type]

2TWU @ #23

It was similar in 1962 with the Nav School Varsities. The 9 aircraft departed on the same route at 15 min intervals, and arrived at Dursley, for return to Hullavington, at random spacing dependent on the capabilities of the various student navigators.

A gentleman (retired Colonel no less) living near Dursley regularly telephoned with complaints about low flying aircraft, complete with all of their numbers. The aircraft numbers were on the underside of the wings and were about 3 feet high. The complaints only came on days with a high cloud base. The Varsity stream/gaggle was at FL60.

Eventually the RAF Police went to his house (on a day with a high cloud base) and took photographs of him sitting in an armchair in his garden copying down the aircraft numbers with the aid of a telescope! The Station Commander's letter explained that if did not use a telescope perhaps he wouldn't have a problem.The complaints stopped.

[BEagle]

4 x VC10K departing at MTOM at 30 min intervals in the early hours didn't exactly cause expressions of pleasure from the locals some years ago - the aircraft were all trailing to Akrotiri. Which in those days would close at around mid-day...

Although that wasn't quite as bad as the time the Boss took off on a Q scamble in mid-June 1986. Hot, humid morning at 05:30-ish, the very light wind put us just within limits for a full power take-off on RW08. Rather than climbing at V2+20, he then accelerated to Min Flap Retract speed...hence a shallower climb than normal. As the squadron had been nagged at for low level turns, he then decided to set a good example and waited until we'd passed 500 ft before turning. Thus we went over the West Witney estate rather lower than ideal and with the gentle purr of 4 x Conways at max chat to entertain the locals...whose windows were doubtless open because of the heat. That caused the Radio Oxford switchboard to light up like a Christmas tree - and the Boss was later invited to have a chat with the Stn Cdr! A 7hr trip and we didn't even catch any Bears!

[ian16th]

I didn't know that Diane Abbott lived near Dartmoor...

From her previous displays of her mathematical capabilities, I don't think that Ms. Abbott can do multiplication.

[Wander00]

There are probably some who think the best place for her would be IN Dartmoor. Not Harrow County Girls' School's finest one might feel

[GeeRam]

There are probably some who think the best place for her would be IN Dartmoor.

Don't you mean Broadmoor.... :E

[Tengah Type]

BEagle #33

I think you are confusing two Tansor sortie in Jun 86, it was a busy time as I flew 5 sorties in 5 days.
I was with the Boss on that Take Off on 13 Jun at 0332Z. i remember it well as I was at home in bed 6 miles away when the Scramble call came at 0302Z. In the days before traffic calming in Brize Norton village it was possible to do 70mph through the village. After Rapid Clearance at the Main Gate and 70mph across the airfield, I joined the Boss in running to the aircraft. The Air Engineer was starting the engines as we boarded. The Ground Crew arrived, as the last engine was starting, to pull the chocks out. We set the speed bugs on the ASIs and switched the Nav Kit on during the Take Off roll. Needless to say No IN alignment. The rest is as you describe except we caught 2 Bears (Door Numbers 30 and 33). As I remember it we handed the F4s to you off the Hebrides on our return. We got 2 more Bears the next day and 3 on the 16th. I flew with you and the Boss on the 17th for 7 hours and No Bears.

[The Oberon]

From her previous displays of her mathematical capabilities, I don't think that Ms. Abbott can do multiplication.

She congratulated Harry & Megan on their new baby weighing 6 pounds and 3 pence.

[BEagle]

Tengah Type, in which case he must have flown the same profile twice - it was definitely 17 June 1986 but I'm not sure why I was called in as I'd been on leave and was supposed to have been on a 2130 trip on the 16th, but that seems to have been Cnx'd…

I vividly recall looking past the Boss through the left window in the left turn over Witney, thinking how close it looked! It was my last trip with that Boss. JF woke up in Thorney Leys as we thundered overhead - his wife thought we were coming through the roof!

You couldn't have handed over to me over the Hebrides on the 13th (Friday!) as I was on leave, so it must have been to somebody else.

But a busy time as you say!

[Training Risky]

From her previous displays of her mathematical capabilities, I don't think that Ms. Abbott can do multiplication.
Oh yes she can: she can go forth and multiply!

[Firestreak]

Many years ago,I was accused of leading a pair of Phantoms at low level over a riding stable causing a horse to bolt with 2 young girls thrown out of the cart attached to said horse, resulting in one broken arm. We were there but descending into low level, well throttled back and at at least 1500ft in the descent . The RAF police, bless them, unearthed the truth by the age old technique of buying some beer in the local pub. The girls had indeed been thrown out of the cart, having lost control at least 2mins before we appeared, the one with the broken arm was filmed shovelling horse manure. I believe that later the stable owners were taken to court for false claims by their insurance company.

[pr00ne]

Retired Army Brigadier constantly complained to his local RAF Station Commander about "constant and noisy early morning take offs disturbing my peace." Where? RAF Middle Wallop. When? June 1940...

Nothing new under the sun.

[Rigga]

I work at Norwich Airport and to be honest we know when military aircraft are about because of their noises.
In the last few weeks a coupl;e of F35s have done low-ish Runway passes and we don’t expect them to land. Therir noise is quite loud compared to all others,
Other regular Mil passes are A400Ms and 146s.
The F15s dont bother NWI at all due to their height but we may watch them on cloudless days.

[Buster11]

Same apparently during the same period at Kenley in stockbroker country.

[pr00ne]

I can understand why people do complain.

Fo8king, so called "Radar calibration flights" are the bain of my life.

Every 18 months, some complete nobhead in a twin engine light commercial does repeated landing circuits for Northolt between midnight and two o'clock.

I'm in the flight path, about a mile from the NE/SE run way. So, in the depth of the quiet night (Yes, it is quiet in South Harrow at night), every ten minutes, for two hours, you get sonny-boy making a simulated approach with all the engine throttle jockeying noise that involves. Who ever heard of "Radar calibration flights" in this day and age of digital self-calibrating kit ?

Radar calibration of what ? The aircraft's on board systems or Northolt's on-ground facilities ? Surely, once the on-ground facilities are installed that's calibration done until you install new kit, unless there's lots of new building underneath the Flight Path, which there's not, as its an already a built-up 1930s suburb.

Bloody annoying. Even if it is just a "Job-for-the-boys". You just get off to sleep and he's overhead again winding-up the prop pitch.

With any luck, the change in approach path consequent on the third Heathrow runway will make this some else's problem. . . . .

N.

(Aircraft enthusiast and co-attendee of Harrow County School For Boys with Mr Portillo !)
Narobs,

You sure that isn't a Navajo doing something entirely different?

[AnglianAV8R]

Narobs,

You sure that isn't a Navajo doing something entirely different?

Check your driveway . . .

[trim it out]

There’s a twitter user who lives in LFA9 and lives in a house named after a colour on the SAL who provides much entertainment.