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View Full Version : Virgin Australia. Must have been one helluva Strategy meeting!!!!


Zhoottoo
7th May 2019, 06:07
Virgin Australia’s new chief executive Paul Scurrah has restructured his executive team in a move that will see group executive Rob Sharp depart the company this Friday.
The restructure follows a two-day strategy meeting held on the Gold Coast last week, at which Mr Scurrah discussed new ideas for success with his most senior managers.
Today The Australian has learned Mr Scurrah has created the positions of Chief Commercial Officer (CCO) and Chief Operations Officer (COO) within the Virgin Australia (VAH) business, in the place of Mr Sharp’s role.
While a global recruitment process is conducted, Tigerair chief executive Merren McArthur will act in the CCO role and director of group flight operations Stuart Aggs will act in the COO role.
Both executives have been with Virgin Australia for a number of years, working in several parts of the business.
Prior to taking on the top job at Tigerair, Ms McArthur led Alliances and Revenue Management and also headed up the Cargo and Charter Services division.
Mr Aggs was previously head of safety and is considered to have the right operational experience for the interim COO role.
Mr Sharp was previously Tigerair’s chief executive before moving into the second-in-charge role under Mr Borghetti.
He was considered a possible contender for the top job but never revealed if he had applied.
It’s understood the changes have been received well internally, six weeks after Mr Scurrah took over from previous CEO John Borghetti.
Last week, Mr Scurrah announced he had renegotiated Virgin Australia’s 737 MAX order with Boeing, deferring deliveries of the first aircraft from this year to 2021, and converting 15 MAX 8 orders, to the larger, more fuel efficient MAX 10s.
He told The Australian he had received an “overwhelmingly positive” welcome to the airline and continued to be excited by the opportunity.
“There is definitely a positivity in the DNA of the people at Virgin which I think really sets us apart from our competition,” Mr Scurrah said.
“There’s a real desire here by all of the people I’ve met for us to succeed and be a powerful player, so that’s very very good to know.”
The Australian

AerialPerspective
8th May 2019, 04:40
Virgin Australia’s new chief executive Paul Scurrah has restructured his executive team in a move that will see group executive Rob Sharp depart the company this Friday.
The restructure follows a two-day strategy meeting held on the Gold Coast last week, at which Mr Scurrah discussed new ideas for success with his most senior managers.
Today The Australian has learned Mr Scurrah has created the positions of Chief Commercial Officer (CCO) and Chief Operations Officer (COO) within the Virgin Australia (VAH) business, in the place of Mr Sharp’s role.
While a global recruitment process is conducted, Tigerair chief executive Merren McArthur will act in the CCO role and director of group flight operations Stuart Aggs will act in the COO role.
Both executives have been with Virgin Australia for a number of years, working in several parts of the business.
Prior to taking on the top job at Tigerair, Ms McArthur led Alliances and Revenue Management and also headed up the Cargo and Charter Services division.
Mr Aggs was previously head of safety and is considered to have the right operational experience for the interim COO role.
Mr Sharp was previously Tigerair’s chief executive before moving into the second-in-charge role under Mr Borghetti.
He was considered a possible contender for the top job but never revealed if he had applied.
It’s understood the changes have been received well internally, six weeks after Mr Scurrah took over from previous CEO John Borghetti.
Last week, Mr Scurrah announced he had renegotiated Virgin Australia’s 737 MAX order with Boeing, deferring deliveries of the first aircraft from this year to 2021, and converting 15 MAX 8 orders, to the larger, more fuel efficient MAX 10s.
He told The Australian he had received an “overwhelmingly positive” welcome to the airline and continued to be excited by the opportunity.
“There is definitely a positivity in the DNA of the people at Virgin which I think really sets us apart from our competition,” Mr Scurrah said.
“There’s a real desire here by all of the people I’ve met for us to succeed and be a powerful player, so that’s very very good to know.”
The Australian

And yet, the VA propensity for disposing of anyone with experience and a track record continues. The other two are lightweights compared to Sharp but it's no surprise, that's the way they roll.

ifylofd
9th May 2019, 04:07
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/972x476/image_ceb8113d9ce07d3e1eb3c4153fe5cf160fc994ef.png

compressor stall
9th May 2019, 04:09
That approach didn't quite work out for that Theranos girl did it?

wheels_down
15th May 2019, 06:25
While a global recruitment process is conducted, Tigerair chief executive Merren McArthur will act in the CCO role and director of group flight operations
Whaaaaaaaaat?

Buster Hyman
15th May 2019, 06:50
Billy Blunt departing is a form of progress I guess...and maybe, being in charge of group flight ops, MM will finally get that Fokker 100 line restarted! :rolleyes:

machtuk
15th May 2019, 09:34
The Virgin/ Tiger group remind me of a merry-go-round, it slows down a few get off and then a few new riders get on then once again it goes round and round up and down and repeats the whole cycle again never going anywhere! :O

wheels_down
15th May 2019, 12:05
Tiger is just a child that nobody wants. Nobody has any aspiration to see it grow. Nobody gives two shits about seeing it succeed.

The current numbers, and looking at the last decade, are just horrendous. Is that why all the CFOs are walking each year?

They need to make some harsh decisions with this business. If it’s a case of not closing it due to ceding to much market power to Jetstar, well when comparing numbers I think Jetstar left Tiger for dead many years ago.

They cant afford a multi hundred million dollar Tiger writedown. Get rid of it before it reaches this point.

Buster Hyman
15th May 2019, 14:26
The concept of having Tiger as a buffer against Jetstar was a good one, but they needed to invest in it to make it work. In hindsight, they should've kept DJ as the face painting, LCC, and created a wholly new full service carrier. They may have even seen off Jetstar with a strategy like that, but of course, that's pure speculation.

Snakecharma
15th May 2019, 21:17
MM is NOT acting as director of group flight ops - there has been some selective cutting and pasting.

MM is acting as CCO and the director of group flight ops is acting as COO.

how long for remains to be seen I guess

The name is Porter
16th May 2019, 12:39
That approach didn't quite work out for that Theranos girl did it?

Listen to the podcast? Fascinating stuff!

The Bullwinkle
16th May 2019, 20:52
And yet, the VA propensity for disposing of anyone with experience and a track record continues. The other two are lightweights compared to Sharp but it's no surprise, that's the way they roll.
:{:{:{:{:{​​​​​​​

compressor stall
16th May 2019, 21:38
Listen to the podcast? Fascinating stuff!

The Dropout? Yes very interesting.

topend3
17th May 2019, 05:06
the route cull is on now too, cap reductions on NZ, pullout from some underperforming WA routes (Geraldton goes in July)

TBM-Legend
17th May 2019, 05:22
Virgin Australia reviews network as it issues profit warning

17 MAY, 2019
Virgin Australia is reviewing its network as weakening demand in the domestic market is expected to drive it to an underlying pre-tax loss of at least A$35 million ($24.1 million) for the year to 30 June.


The airline says in a 17 May trading update that it expects underlying profit to be “at least $100 million down on the [2018 financial year] comparative result of A$64.4 million

T-Vasis
17th May 2019, 22:23
This is problematic for the VA Group. Qantas are set to deliver a good result and VA the opposite - both airlines are underpinned by their domestic businesses. It further justifies the Max 10 deferals due to capital pain. I guess the good part is that at an operating level, the airline remains profitable, and this loss will be on an accounting basis versus cash basis - which matters.

Link to update can be found here. (https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20190517/pdf/445551wf9w3wqr.pdf)

Ollie Onion
18th May 2019, 09:02
Any airline who couldn't make substantial and sustained profits in the last 3 years is going to be in big trouble over the next 3. Virgin has let the good times go past without filling the financial coffers which may mean tough times ahead.

777Nine
18th May 2019, 09:14
Maybe I am oversimplifying this, but how is it possible that in the domestic market in which Virgin essentially has one main competitor, (The Qantas group that includes Jetstar), how can you not make money and for how much longer will the different owners put up with this..

Maybe it is the lack of competition which is causing them to make such poor strategic decisions?

T-Vasis
18th May 2019, 12:04
Any airline who couldn't make substantial and sustained profits in the last 3 years is going to be in big trouble over the next 3. Virgin has let the good times go past without filling the financial coffers which may mean tough times ahead.

That's not correct. VA has made great inroads into paying down debt. It used to be over 7x leveraged... That has almost halved. And VA does have $1b in cash and cash equivelents. The good times have allowed VA to both spend and save. It would not be where it is today (as a new airline) if it did not.

PoppaJo
18th May 2019, 14:48
Maybe I am oversimplifying this, but how is it possible that in the domestic market in which Virgin essentially has one main competitor, (The Qantas group that includes Jetstar), how can you not make money and for how much longer will the different owners put up with this..

Maybe it is the lack of competition which is causing them to make such poor strategic decisions?
Domestic 737 is not the major problem here.

Its Short Haul International 737, 777 LAX and once again....Tiger. They are bleeding in these markets with rising fuel costs and declines in loads due overcapacity across the ditch and US currency pressures.

QF have reported similar trends with the International business also.

morno
18th May 2019, 16:18
Can we just point out here, that prior to the f**king 737 fleet changeover debacle at Tiger, they did actually make a profit one year. More per airframe than Virgin did.

Then the rot and stupid decisions set in.....

machtuk
18th May 2019, 21:49
Can we just point out here, that prior to the f**king 737 fleet changeover debacle at Tiger, they did actually make a profit one year. More per airframe than Virgin did.

Then the rot and stupid decisions set in.....


.......that about sums it up Morno. Once Tigers started down the path of a fleet change the toilet lid was left open wide!
originally the fools at the time said we'll train all 200 pilots for a B737 operation in 18 mths, $42k bond 3 years, since then Tigers has been a clusterf**k!

davidclarke
19th May 2019, 05:18
Can we just point out here, that prior to the f**king 737 fleet changeover debacle at Tiger, they did actually make a profit one year. More per airframe than Virgin did.

Then the rot and stupid decisions set in.....
Couldn’t have said it better. Was going well as a stand alone identity. Then the fleet changeover, maintenance changeover, catering change the list goes on. Now I wonder how they manage to function from day to day. So much potential.

Snakecharma
19th May 2019, 06:52
Poppa Jo, not sure if the LAX operation is “bleeding” as you describe it.

in fact my information says the 777 is making a profit, which given the loads and freight is not surprising

morno
19th May 2019, 10:30
Just a few to start;

Increased crew training requirements
At the start of it, they had a lot of crew sitting around for many months, doing absolutely nothing (still do. I know of some pilots who went for a nice paid holiday to Florida to do their type rating at the start of it all, and haven't even flown the thing yet!)
Increase in management positions (you've got a position duplicated twice in a few cases, one for Airbus and one for Boeing)
Decrease in aircraft utilisation, but many of the overheads are still there (leases, maintenance, etc.)

And that's just what I can come up with looking outside in. Many crew left when they could see the boat had lost it's way. They needed to be replaced, so that goes with your increased crew training requirements.

Existing Tiger crews were never bonded either. That was part of the agreement between the pilots and management.

morno

wheels_down
19th May 2019, 11:03
Depreciation is the biggest killer. Fleet transition charges 20million last FY and similar figure this year.

Virgin owns the 737s so not sure how that works as the rental expense is dropping but how they are being charged for them is anyone’s guess. Nothing on the financials in regards to Tiger owning them.

As every half passes, depreciation is increasing, engineering increasing, fuel bill increasing wage bill increasing and margin is continuing to go backwards.

Margin was increasing right up until they sent the 737 across. They had the right mix about 3/4 years ago with a sole Airbus fleet with Fuel rising but revenue/yield/margin climbing which covered the fuel problems. Then some idiot floated the 737 idea.

FedupSo
19th May 2019, 15:24
Ridiculous how many mangers there are. Managers for mangagers which costs a fortune and above all else filters out responsibility.
And if you’re a shit manager we will promote you and give you two more managers.

Snakecharma
19th May 2019, 21:04
Personally, I think there are a couple of issues.

I am not sure about the “too many managers” mantra. There are far fewer managers in virgin than in comparable airlines but I am not convinced they are in the right places. At the end of the day someone has to do all the stuff to support the troops actually making th aeroplanes move. Not enough people in the appropriate roles means things that need to change don’t, things that need responses back to crews don’t get responded to, and the people at the coal face feel like they have no support. The other thing to remember is the “managers” are people too, not some mystical being that is immune to the same pressures, issues and stressors as the rest of the workforce is. Training managers or more appropriately people who hold managerial roles would be a great start.

And more importantly the business needs leaders not managers. I don’t mean titles, I mean people who can actually lead, inspire and motivate their people. Those sorts of people in those roles are a bit thin on the ground.

Ken Borough
19th May 2019, 23:07
I saw recently that Tiger Australia has a 'General Manager Customer Journey'. WTF is that? And why does such a small outfit have General Managers?

T-Vasis
20th May 2019, 00:30
Just a few to start;

Increased crew training requirements
At the start of it, they had a lot of crew sitting around for many months, doing absolutely nothing (still do. I know of some pilots who went for a nice paid holiday to Florida to do their type rating at the start of it all, and haven't even flown the thing yet!)
Increase in management positions (you've got a position duplicated twice in a few cases, one for Airbus and one for Boeing)
Decrease in aircraft utilisation, but many of the overheads are still there (leases, maintenance, etc.)

And that's just what I can come up with looking outside in. Many crew left when they could see the boat had lost it's way. They needed to be replaced, so that goes with your increased crew training requirements.

Existing Tiger crews were never bonded either. That was part of the agreement between the pilots and management.

There will always be an increase in training expense. This is short-lived and will not impact on future profitability. I doubt there are any crew sitting around doing nothing. A few additional heads in the business will not impact profitability. I suspect the airline is already extremely lean. Do you have evidence of the reduced utilisation? What is the current aircraft utilisation for the A320 and 737 fleet?

Depreciation is the biggest killer. Fleet transition charges 20million last FY and similar figure this year.

Virgin owns the 737s so not sure how that works as the rental expense is dropping but how they are being charged for them is anyone’s guess. Nothing on the financials in regards to Tiger owning them.

As every half passes, depreciation is increasing, engineering increasing, fuel bill increasing wage bill increasing and margin is continuing to go backwards.

Margin was increasing right up until they sent the 737 across. They had the right mix about 3/4 years ago with a sole Airbus fleet with Fuel rising but revenue/yield/margin climbing which covered the fuel problems. Then some idiot floated the 737 idea.

Depreciation is a non-cash expense. It has no impact on cash-flow. It is irrelevant to airline profitability. Virgin does not own all of their 737's. I will assume the ones going to Tigerair are owned and the purpose of accelerating the depreciation on these aircraft is to clear the books for Virgin and Tigerair of this expense. Rental expense decline would reflect the removal of A320's from the fleet as I assume these are all leased. In FY18 Tigerair increase rASK, yield and RPK's on the back of ASK reductions (two aircraft). They're all positive movements, not negative. cASK increases are likely a result of uncontrollables e.g. fuel expense. Other cASK increases would directly link to activity. Tigerair's cASK would be the lowest out of all airlines.

wishiwasupthere
20th May 2019, 05:55
I doubt there are any crew sitting around doing nothing.

Well, you’d be wrong. Seven months between type rating and setting foot in the actual plane is the longest i’ve heard, but is not an isolated case (on full pay).

morno
20th May 2019, 07:25
Well, you’d be wrong. Seven months between type rating and setting foot in the actual plane is the longest i’ve heard, but is not an isolated case (on full pay).

I’ll better that! 18 months and counting is the best I know of

morno
20th May 2019, 07:32
There will always be an increase in training expense. This is short-lived and will not impact on future profitability. I doubt there are any crew sitting around doing nothing. A few additional heads in the business will not impact profitability. I suspect the airline is already extremely lean. Do you have evidence of the reduced utilisation? What is the current aircraft utilisation for the A320 and 737 fleet?



Depreciation is a non-cash expense. It has no impact on cash-flow. It is irrelevant to airline profitability. Virgin does not own all of their 737's. I will assume the ones going to Tigerair are owned and the purpose of accelerating the depreciation on these aircraft is to clear the books for Virgin and Tigerair of this expense. Rental expense decline would reflect the removal of A320's from the fleet as I assume these are all leased. In FY18 Tigerair increase rASK, yield and RPK's on the back of ASK reductions (two aircraft). They're all positive movements, not negative. cASK increases are likely a result of uncontrollables e.g. fuel expense. Other cASK increases would directly link to activity. Tigerair's cASK would be the lowest out of all airlines.

T-Vasis, keep in mind this was all supposed to have been completed mid last year. And they’re not even half way into it!

I don’t have figures to back my reduced utilisation claim up so take that how you want. All I can go off is what I’ve been told by those there, that A320 flying is down, 737 flying up. But I don’t imagine the leases are any cheaper whether they fly or not. Only a couple have left the fleet last time I checked.

Buster Hyman
20th May 2019, 07:54
Only a couple have left the fleet last time I checked.Just repainted for VARA. But, the way it's going, may as well repaint the whole fleet as VARA.

T-Vasis
20th May 2019, 09:13
T-Vasis, keep in mind this was all supposed to have been completed mid last year. And they’re not even half way into it!

I don’t have figures to back my reduced utilisation claim up so take that how you want. All I can go off is what I’ve been told by those there, that A320 flying is down, 737 flying up. But I don’t imagine the leases are any cheaper whether they fly or not. Only a couple have left the fleet last time I checked.


Does the fleet transition expose Tigerair to additional cost? Yes. But it is short-term pain to enable cost liberation in the long term. There are sound benefits of this philosophy. It most certainly is the right thing to do.

Without the data to support aircraft utilisation it becomes a moot point. I prefer fact, so I will discount this until it can be substantiated. Someone could look at the schedule and make that determination. I beleive the fleet would be highy utilised.

Berealgetreal
20th May 2019, 09:13
More like Alliance livery.

Over in the engine room it’s 10-12 hour 4 sector back to back days with absolute min rest on every overnight for years on end.

The red hot tip is the front end of a VAA NG isn’t where you’ll find the missing cash or any EBA efficiencies in the next round.

Been propping up the whole outfit and funding numerous hair brain ideas from day dot.

Zhoottoo
22nd May 2019, 02:40
[QUOTE=Berealgetreal;10475465]More like Alliance livery.

Virgin Australia takes axe to key Qld route

Robyn Ironside
May 22, 2019

Virgin Australia has wasted no time cutting back capacity, announcing Alliance Airlines will takeover two return services a week between Brisbane and Cairns.

Currently operated by Virgin Australia’s Boeing 737-800 aircraft with the capacity to seat 176 passengers including eight in business class, Alliance will use its Fokker 100s on the services, seating 100 people.

A statement from Virgin Australia said the airline remained “committed to this area of our network”.

“We will continue to provide a strong schedule proposition on this route,” the statement said.

The Alliance services will operate on Thursdays and Fridays.

A trading update released by Virgin Australia last week showed the airline was again headed for another annual loss, as a result of weaker demand, and fuel and foreign exchange headwinds. Group CEO Paul Scurrah said capacity would continue to be reviewed, with the airline already reducing the number of seats in the market by 1.5 per cent.

“There’s going to be a very, very tight look at where we’re flying and how those routes are performing,” Mr Scurrah told The Australian last week.

Data compiled by the Bureau of Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Economics showed passengers travelling between Brisbane and Cairns on all airlines, had fallen 6.6 per cent in March.

In March 2018, 106,700 passengers travelled between the two ports compared to 99,600 in March this year.

Other routes that could be under review by Virgin Australia include Brisbane-Darwin, with passengers falling 12.5 per cent in March across all airlines; and Brisbane-Hamilton Island with numbers down 8.2 per cent.

Alliance operates a number of other services for Virgin Australia including between Port Moresby and Brisbane.

VH DSJ
22nd May 2019, 04:05
Currently operated by Virgin Australia’s Boeing 737-800 aircraft with the capacity to seat 176 passengers including eight in business class, Alliance will use its Fokker 100s on the services, seating 100 people.

I bet they're regretting turfing out their E190s now. Is it true they're still paying the lease for these whilst being stored in Nashville USA?

Icarus2001
22nd May 2019, 04:44
https://www.casa.gov.au/aircraft-register?search_api_views_fulltext=&vh=zpr&field_ar_serial=

https://www.casa.gov.au/aircraft-register?search_api_views_fulltext=&vh=zpn&field_ar_serial=

ZPR ZPN...

AerialPerspective
24th May 2019, 02:27
Ridiculous how many mangers there are. Managers for mangagers which costs a fortune and above all else filters out responsibility.
And if you’re a shit manager we will promote you and give you two more managers.

That about sums up VA... the WORST of the crop are the ones who get promoted. Can't fathom how that happens without a deliberate effort to say "OK, who's the worst candidate and how do we justify giving them the job"... there's no other explanation. The whole administration of this airline has been a complete joke since the messiah arrived from the mail room.

AerialPerspective
24th May 2019, 02:30
More like Alliance livery.

Over in the engine room it’s 10-12 hour 4 sector back to back days with absolute min rest on every overnight for years on end.

The red hot tip is the front end of a VAA NG isn’t where you’ll find the missing cash or any EBA efficiencies in the next round.

Been propping up the whole outfit and funding numerous hair brain ideas from day dot.

And now Qantas owns part of Alliance... you couldn't invent the stupidity of VA for a comical aviation version of 'The Office'... the airline is like a real life version of the movie 'Office Space'... "Now, if you could just GO AHEAD and come in on Saturday and screw the operation that w o u l d be g r e a t !!!"

AerialPerspective
24th May 2019, 02:35
I saw recently that Tiger Australia has a 'General Manager Customer Journey'. WTF is that? And why does such a small outfit have General Managers?

That'd be to study the 'Customer Touch Points'... seriously, the BS this company goes on with... including VA and their 'customer lens walk' - where a manager takes 30 minutes valuable time to walk the path taken by a passenger to look for 'service impediments'... or 'sub-optimal' whatever... call me old fashioned but what happened to putting people in management positions who bloodywell know what the hell they're managing and get on with it... instead rubbish and vacuous terms like 'customer journey management' are invented to make it look like people's jobs have a purpose. No doubt filled with aviation know-nothings and imposters who have an MBA.

Pearly White
24th May 2019, 03:19
That'd be to study the 'Customer Touch Points'... seriously, the BS this company goes on with... including VA and their 'customer lens walk' - where a manager takes 30 minutes valuable time to walk the path taken by a passenger to look for 'service impediments'... or 'sub-optimal' whatever... call me old fashioned but what happened to putting people in management positions who bloodywell know what the hell they're managing and get on with it... instead rubbish and vacuous terms like 'customer journey management' are invented to make it look like people's jobs have a purpose. No doubt filled with aviation know-nothings and imposters who have an MBA.Actually, getting managers to experience the business exactly as customers experience it was once seen as a breakthrough methodology towards fixing the business right, smashing bureaucracy, and demolishing the head office ivory tower syndrome.

SAS Airlines was turned around in the early 80s by a guy called Jan Carlzon who later published his very simple approach in a slim volume entitled Moments of Truth, utilising ideas like this. Should be compulsory reading not just for aviation managers but for management in any business that serves customers.

TBM-Legend
24th May 2019, 12:37
https://www.amazon.com.au/Worst-First-Continentals-Remarkable-Comeback/dp/0471356522/ref=pd_sim_14_4/356-3614980-0597651?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0471356522&pd_rd_r=747dde98-7e20-11e9-b90d-c5ab1009ccec&pd_rd_w=trLK6&pd_rd_wg=qIRGD&pf_rd_p=f09e5598-fbdb-4712-af44-62e0022496fc&pf_rd_r=0ARR02KX2CX8Y23YM6CZ&psc=1&refRID=0ARR02KX2CX8Y23YM6CZ

"From Worst to First!"
... try Gordon Berthune's model...

Ken Borough
24th May 2019, 13:29
Actually, getting managers to experience the business exactly as customers experience it was once seen as a breakthrough methodology towards fixing the business right, smashing bureaucracy, and demolishing the head office ivory tower syndrome.

Surely Tiger Australia, being such a small carrier, would by dent of its size have a small enough management team to know what was being inflicted on their passengers?

Buster Hyman
24th May 2019, 14:59
Surely Tiger Australia, being such a small carrier, would by dent of its size have a small enough management team to know what was being inflicted on their passengers?

They'd have to fly Tiger to know....

Snakecharma
25th May 2019, 00:22
“Over in the engine room” and “propping up the whole outfit” and here in lies a big part of the problem.

Yes, there have been dumb ideas, plenty in fact, mostly generated by a dapper man of Southern European extraction and his bunch of mates who would refuse to actually tell him anything of value, particularly if it disagreed with his world view, and I for one am very happy that he gone, the quicker they dismantle the Macquarie place office and bring everything back into one spot the better.

That whole debacle has been a failure of the board from day one.

But this view that just because the 737 is the most plentiful machine in the fleet that it is the thing making money and everyone else is a leech upon the finances is just wrong, and leads to a sense that the 737 crews are hard done by.

The 737 is very effective on many routes but it isn’t, with Virgin’s various and sometimes bizarre cost structure, the money tree that some think it is.

This joint has not made a lot of money for a long time. And as the biggest fleet, with the biggest pilot group, the largest maintenance requirements (overall not per machine) and the biggest fuel burn (again overall not individually) the 737 contributes to the losses in the bad times just as much as it contributes to the profits in the good times.

I respectfully suggest that each part of the business has a part to play, the pilots do not impact decisions such as how much to pay for leases or interior refurbs or additions such as wifi/internet/ife so if each pilot is operating their own airframe as efficiently and practically as possible then they are making their contribution to the success of the company. The fact that they fly an Airbus, 777, ATR, F100 or anything else does not diminish their personal contributions and to suggest that because the 737 is the biggest fleet and as a result deserves a better deal than the others is frankly insulting to the pilots flying on the other fleets.

That off my chest, I don’t think (hope) your were suggesting that Berealgetreal but there are some that do.

And again all that said above, the 737 guys and gals are working their respective rings off and it cannot be sustained. People cannot keep up the pace indefinitely and people will (have) start to fall over. This does not seem to have been recognised and I think it is obvious to blind Freddy that the fleet needs more bodies.

But again the individual pilots cannot directly influence that. Sure there are various means of dropping the hint - sick leave, resignations, more militant industrial relations discussions, but at the end of the day the business has got to want to resource the fleet appropriately, and spreadsheets don’t reflect the human toll, and I don’t think they are there yet. BUT the new CEO does, apparently, have a history of focusing on the staff and their welfare and well being, much more so than someone else we knew, so there is hope.

but someone has to tell him in an appropriate way. 80-90 emails from captains to his suggestion box simply saying “business class” isn’t it (though I agree with the sentiment!)

Superman1
25th May 2019, 00:26
Surely Tiger Australia, being such a small carrier, would by dent of its size have a small enough management team to know what was being inflicted on their passengers?

No.... Management from Tiger are mostly all direct from Virgin in Brisbane... they no nothing about low cost carriers (some will allude to their glory days at Virgin Blue) and only what they know from Virgin...as you can imagine there is no one better to be steering the ship considering the resounding success story that has been VA....🤪...:. Didn’t think it was possible to crash two cars at once with the same driver!

Buster Hyman
25th May 2019, 02:16
No.... Management from Tiger are mostly all direct from Virgin in Brisbane... they no nothing about low cost carriers (some will allude to their glory days at Virgin Blue) and only what they know from Virgin...as you can imagine there is no one better to be steering the ship considering the resounding success story that has been VA....🤪...:. Didn’t think it was possible to crash two cars at once with the same driver!

The car park is full of QLD plates but in saying that, the ex Jetstar people are also doing a sterling job...:hmm:

T-Vasis
25th May 2019, 02:28
I think there is a diverse mix of airline backgrounds now at Tiger from what I have heard, and some very good people. The strategy comes from the top. The business will only be as good as the strategy it develops and how it executes it and the top has changed too many times.

ifylofd
25th May 2019, 09:08
The thinking inside the cult is that everyone will strive to become a Level 6 manager - apparently reserved for the CEO only. This of course is fine if you drink from the Kool aid, sing kum bah yah at every opportunity, and readily acknowledge every 'minority recognition day' that is held throughout the year.
If you tick all the above boxes, then you can easily move from say, sales one week, to operations support the next, then perhaps have a stab at engineering, then who knows, maybe become a pilot type? Or even the executive management level.

The days in this industry (and many others) where actual relevant experience to the job role is optional, and there is a cavalier approach - let's learn on the run, which of course never works, is why we see an operation like VA so poorly run and managed. Look at the financial results, look at the share price, and then you may have some idea of how much a basket case the business is.

machtuk
26th May 2019, 04:33
The thinking inside the cult is that everyone will strive to become a Level 6 manager - apparently reserved for the CEO only. This of course is fine if you drink from the Kool aid, sing kum bah yah at every opportunity, and readily acknowledge every 'minority recognition day' that is held throughout the year.
If you tick all the above boxes, then you can easily move from say, sales one week, to operations support the next, then perhaps have a stab at engineering, then who knows, maybe become a pilot type? Or even the executive management level.

The days in this industry (and many others) where actual relevant experience to the job role is optional, and there is a cavalier approach - let's learn on the run, which of course never works, is why we see an operation like VA so poorly run and managed. Look at the financial results, look at the share price, and then you may have some idea of how much a basket case the business is.

Mate couldn't have said that any better myself, especially applies to the running disaster that is Tigers, a rudderless ship for pretty much all of it's history bar for when Broomy was at the helm:-)

porch monkey
26th May 2019, 08:40
Snake, normally i’d Agree with pretty much all your point. But I think you need to go look at the profit/loss figures for the individual parts. VAA domestic has been the cash cow most of the time. Not to say the others don’t contribute. But the figures speak for themselves.

Rated De
26th May 2019, 12:48
The thinking inside the cult is that everyone will strive to become a Level 6 manager - apparently reserved for the CEO only. This of course is fine if you drink from the Kool aid, sing kum bah yah at every opportunity, and readily acknowledge every 'minority recognition day' that is held throughout the year.
If you tick all the above boxes, then you can easily move from say, sales one week, to operations support the next, then perhaps have a stab at engineering, then who knows, maybe become a pilot type? Or even the executive management level.

The days in this industry (and many others) where actual relevant experience to the job role is optional, and there is a cavalier approach - let's learn on the run, which of course never works, is why we see an operation like VA so poorly run and managed. Look at the financial results, look at the share price, and then you may have some idea of how much a basket case the business is.

Brilliant. Almost the perfect Abstract for how the Western World lost its way!

wiseman2
29th May 2019, 11:46
So what’s the new CEO’s game plan for the ATR? It seems as though the long serving troops on the front line are still trapped by the ‘cap’ and generally unhappy. Doesn’t look like there’s a flood of new pilots interested in joining the fleet either.

Is it time to bring back the Ejet? Maybe then they could attract some new pilots with the prospect of a good wage/base/career progression and take back all the flying given to Alliance. Who knows, they may even be able to expand their regional ops and actually be a challenger to Qlink.

Either way, the new CEO needs to pay some attention to the ATR. He has an untapped resource of group pilots who could serve the ATR (if the right incentives are put in place) or move onto the jet fleet as their respective positions have allowed for years. Hopefully he doesn’t alienate them like the old boss did and create another exodus.

Chadzat
29th May 2019, 13:56
Yes I’m sure that is the CEOs number 1 concern when he took on the job to lead the entire VA group - what to do with those whinging ATR pilots. He probably wakes up every day hatching out a complex plan to bring in 100 seat regional jets and re-jig the network just to appease the frothing mob of front seaters rather than solving the issue that a 18 year old company still cannot make a cent in the second half of the financial year.

He really needs to get his priorities straight....

Biatch
2nd Jun 2019, 11:15
Yes I’m sure that is the CEOs number 1 concern when he took on the job to lead the entire VA group - what to do with those whinging ATR pilots. He probably wakes up every day hatching out a complex plan to bring in 100 seat regional jets and re-jig the network just to appease the frothing mob of front seaters rather than solving the issue that a 18 year old company still cannot make a cent in the second half of the financial year.

He really needs to get his priorities straight....

harsh...

its one of many things he needs to sort out. ATR lease costs are apparently the highest in the world. The crews have been rooted around some may say more than most other resource groups... like tiger , and long haul, it needs to be sorted out.

AerialPerspective
10th Jun 2019, 03:12
Actually, getting managers to experience the business exactly as customers experience it was once seen as a breakthrough methodology towards fixing the business right, smashing bureaucracy, and demolishing the head office ivory tower syndrome.

SAS Airlines was turned around in the early 80s by a guy called Jan Carlzon who later published his very simple approach in a slim volume entitled Moments of Truth, utilising ideas like this. Should be compulsory reading not just for aviation managers but for management in any business that serves customers.

I'm well aware of the SAS story thanks... VA is not SAS and TMRB is not Jan Carlzon. What you speak of is fine as long as the people making the major decisions know what the hell they're talking about but instead... they have no ability so latch onto some small item of 'best practice' like these frivolous nibbling around the edges without any of the other elements and then, knowing nothing about the business they're working in/managing, they then do this one thing and recede into their bubble thinking they're doing a sterling job. Before anyone says that TMRB does know about the industry... no, he doesn't... being in the right place at the right time in the competitor for 40 odd years then using gift of the gab to get the gig he's just left and being nothing more than an average salesman does not make him CEO material. I wish Jan Carlzon or someone like him was running VA but they're not or even Gordon Bethune, someone who knows what he's doing but they're not.

Ken Borough
10th Jun 2019, 06:08
va is not sas and tmrb is not jan carlzon.

👏 👏.

🤣 🤣🤣