View Full Version : Lion Air in the news again
You would have to question whether this captain was fit for duty when such extreme aggressive behaviour is demonstrated for such a minor issue.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/lion-air-pilot-grounded-after-beating-hotel-clerk-over-ironing-11500098
John Emmerton
4th May 2019, 08:52
Sack him....
Sack him....
No.
That is criminal assault and battery (battery as she was aware she was about to be hit for at least 3 of the strikes). Lead him off in handcuffs, put him behind bars and then sack him. He hit a girl at least 4 times around the head.
Now, did he then go fly a 737 with paying passengers in the same frame of mind or was he withheld from service immediately. Where was the hotel security? They have a duty to protect the staff of the hotel as well as the customers.
Loose rivets
4th May 2019, 10:13
Second blow, severe disciplinary action. Third. Job and licence gone on medical grounds. Fourth, Jail.
First blow, go to jail.
Simples.
What an indictment of cultural authority. Neither the victim or the colleague attempted to fight back. Almost as if this sort of thing is normal.
What a world!
\\sacked/Prosecuted/licence suspended until psychologically profiled. Likely? Maybe.
Somebody of that temperament shouldn't be anywhere near a flight deck. Rare now, but I'm sure we have all met that type arrogant a###h##e in aviation.
Brenoch
4th May 2019, 11:20
What the hell is wrong with people these days?
Good job I was not at reception at the time otherwise this pilot would be unable to report for duty.
ATC Watcher
4th May 2019, 12:22
Good job I was not at reception at the time otherwise this pilot would be unable to report for duty.
And you would have been the one likely to end up in jail because this is Indonesia and not the UK or the USA.
Unfortunately in many parts of the world it is still usual and culturally acceptable to beat up its servants. This is just a case of an upper class "master " treating the hotel staff as inferior servants. That also explains the attitude of the other clerk and the security guard taking its time to intervene and not appearing to be condemning the behaviour.
The only reason this makes the news is the diffusion on social media of the video from the security camera and the "western" reaction..
But if you had been assaulting a airline Capt in uniform in a hotel lobby in Indonesia you would immediately be in a lot of trouble.
Different world , nothing to do with Lion air, it could have been anybody in Indonesia...
Starbear
4th May 2019, 17:40
That is one of the most despicable events it has ever been my misfortune to view. I sincerely hope the young lady may have some relatives who may take some action if the authorities fail to do anything.
One hopes she has a couple of burly brothers, and that despicable individual stays there again.
And you would have been the one likely to end up in jail because this is Indonesia and not the UK or the USA.
Unfortunately in many parts of the world it is still usual and culturally acceptable to beat up its servants. This is just a case of an upper class "master " treating the hotel staff as inferior servants. That also explains the attitude of the other clerk and the security guard taking its time to intervene and not appearing to be condemning the behaviour.
The only reason this makes the news is the diffusion on social media of the video from the security camera and the "western" reaction..
But if you had been assaulting a airline Capt in uniform in a hotel lobby in Indonesia you would immediately be in a lot of trouble.
Different world , nothing to do with Lion air, it could have been anybody in Indonesia...
Whilst you're thinking about yourself, your future, cultural differences and the norms abroad, I would have decked that scum on the soles of my shoes. Simples. And I wouldn't go to jail.
Global Aviator
5th May 2019, 02:10
Whilst you're thinking about yourself, your future, cultural differences and the norms abroad, I would have decked that scum on the soles of my shoes. Simples. And I wouldn't go to jail.
Actually you probably would go to jail!
Absolutely disgraceful incident. I to would have had no choice but to intervene, knowing that I would probably suffer consequences.
What may happen in your country is different in another.
crewmeal
5th May 2019, 06:14
"Lest we forget" Remember this incident last year?
Pilots fight (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/04/pilots-grounded-after-mid-air-fight-london-mumbai-flight-jet-airways)
However assaulting a civilian in public for such an incident should result in instant dismissal. The worker should also sue for damages. However Indonesians probably have their own agenda.
Superpilot
5th May 2019, 06:56
And the mother of all Asian tirade incidents is...
https://youtu.be/SD1Q-ld3pq4
rog747
5th May 2019, 07:21
And the mother of all Asian tirade incidents is...
https://youtu.be/SD1Q-ld3pq4 (https://youtu.be/SD1Q-ld3pq4)
I only wanted an aisle seat
Icarus2001
5th May 2019, 07:31
What the hell is wrong with people these days? Nothing to do with these days, people have not changed it is just that now there are cameras and smart phones everywhere and an internet to disseminate the information.
Cows getting bigger
5th May 2019, 07:33
Sack him and give him an ironing board as a leaving gift.
krismiler
5th May 2019, 08:17
A British woman was recently jailed for slapping an immigration officer in Bali, not as hard or as many times.
https://youtu.be/0lTykZyido4
Actually you probably would go to jail!
Absolutely disgraceful incident. I to would have had no choice but to intervene, knowing that I would probably suffer consequences.
Let the proceedings begin.
It's good you would intervene. Nice 👍🏼
olster
5th May 2019, 13:43
What an absolute @rsewipe of a human. I am embarrassed to share the same profession. Like others, instant dismissal, prosecution and jail.
I see the Captain offering a 'settlement' (probably less than USD1000) and everyone walking away happy. Some money will also find its way to the police for the 'ínconvenience'.
The poor girl probably makes USD100 a month and will consider herself lucky to get such a good job. There will also be pressure from the hotel to 'forget' the whole thing happened to ensure that Lion maintains it contract.
I'm from the region.. this is how things work.
Anilv
Yaw String
6th May 2019, 20:29
Disgrace to his uniform,disgrace to his profession.Lets hope this excuse for a human being gets just what he merits.
Thaihawk
7th May 2019, 03:50
Second blow, severe disciplinary action. Third. Job and licence gone on medical grounds. Fourth, Jail.
Agreed 100%. The industry does not need his type of arrogance. I would add asset confiscation to his punishment.
Thaihawk
7th May 2019, 03:54
In the old days this sort of thing was swept under the carpet and denied. With "social" media this has become difficult, if not impossible.
Still as others have pointed out, payment of " tea money" to the local polisi and others will probably smooth over the issue.
CaptainProp
7th May 2019, 09:55
.....and when the first officer puts down his / her foot being concerned about the safety of the crew and passengers then.......?
CP
His dudeness
7th May 2019, 10:03
.....and when the first officer puts down his / her foot being concerned about the safety of the crew and passengers then.......?
CP
Or - heaven forbids - the F/O wrinkles his shirt even more..... ahhhh I miss the good old days, when I still was a skygod and and F/O little more than a punchingball... :}
And you would have been the one likely to end up in jail because this is Indonesia and not the UK or the USA.
Unfortunately in many parts of the world it is still usual and culturally acceptable to beat up its servants. This is just a case of an upper class "master " treating the hotel staff as inferior servants. That also explains the attitude of the other clerk and the security guard taking its time to intervene and not appearing to be condemning the behaviour.
The only reason this makes the news is the diffusion on social media of the video from the security camera and the "western" reaction..
But if you had been assaulting a airline Capt in uniform in a hotel lobby in Indonesia you would immediately be in a lot of trouble.
Different world , nothing to do with Lion air, it could have been anybody in Indonesia...
Absolutely, maids in Singapore regularly get assaulted, things are different in Asia.
fatbus
9th May 2019, 04:56
And the other hotel staff did not even react !!! Disgraceful!!!
A British woman was recently jailed for slapping an immigration officer in Bali, not as hard or as many times.
https://youtu.be/0lTykZyido4
Looks Indian to me m8 :)
ROW_BOT
9th May 2019, 12:42
Yes it's shocking, and no doubt a revelation to many Westerners who think of Asians as 'polite' and 'non-confrontational'. But anyone who has worked in an Asian company will certainly either know of, or have personally experienced nasty abusive behaviour from them. Asian society is built on strict authoritarianism, and those in authority aren't used to being told 'No'. They like to regularly remind their 'juniors' of the power they have over them, and they can get away with almost anything (as you see in that video). There are very few legal controls on them, unlike in the civilsed West.
I myself have been physically threatened and verbally abused by two Flight Ops 'managers' in a major airline (which is currently in a state of imminent collapse). They didn't like it when I refused to be bullied into signing an illegal document. The short arsed Chinese DFO confronted and advanced on me with threatening body language and made verbal threats to me - backed up by his halfwit henchman (a Brit, believe it or not). His best line was 'this is how we do it in ASIA!'.
It's really sick that people with these low standards are put in positions of power. They are the dregs of the industry.
So yes, verbal abuse and physical threat is indeed how they do it in Asia. Know what to expect if you go there.
Here's an update. The offending Lion Air pilot has been arrested and detained by the Surabaya Police. Here's a Google Translation of an article from here. https://news.detik.com/berita-jawa-timur/d-4542188/pilot-lion-air-penampar-karyawan-hotel-akhirnya-ditahan
Surabaya - Individual Lion Air Pilots AGS (29) who slapped employees of the Hotel La Lisa Surabaya AR (28) were arrested. AGS is detained by Surabaya Police.
AGS detention was held on Wednesday (8/5) night. AGS came to meet the police call and was immediately arrested after being examined. Previously, the police had set the AGS as a suspect in a case of persecution.
"For the suspect last night the detention was carried out in the Surabaya Police Detention Center," said the Head of East Java Police Public Relations Commissioner Frans Barung Mangera when confirmed in Surabaya on Thursday (05/09/2019).
Barung said his party had also pocketed several pieces of evidence. Like CCTV footage when the suspect carried out a sighting, the testimony of several eyewitnesses to the post mortem results which stated the victim had suffered bruising to trauma.
"We have pocketed the name of the results of expert witnesses, namely the post mortem and the post mortem is significant so that we are made as suspects in question," added Barung.
Previously this case originated from a viral video showing a pilot of Lion Air AGS (29) carrying out a sighting on the hotel staff of La Lisa Surabaya, AR (29). After the incident, AR experienced bruising until she was traumatized. AR also reported this case to the Surabaya Police.
The photo in the article is of the Lion Air pilot involved in this incident after taking a urine sample. I wonder whether he ironed his own shirt in the photo? It's an appalling mess!!
torquemada60
9th May 2019, 16:13
What an indictment of cultural authority. Neither the victim or the colleague attempted to fight back. Almost as if this sort of thing is normal.
What a world!
Typical Asian mentality. What a disgrace. Hope that poor woman will press charges.
futurama
10th May 2019, 02:16
Originally Posted by fatbus
And the other hotel staff did not even react !!! Disgraceful!!!
Originally Posted by TURIN
What an indictment of cultural authority. Neither the victim or the colleague attempted to fight back. Almost as if this sort of thing is normal.
What a world!
Originally Posted by torquemada60
Typical Asian mentality. What a disgrace. Hope that poor woman will press charges.
Seriously? Can we spot the huge irony in these posts?
First, "that poor woman" victim is, in fact, a man. I find it amusing that most westerners here (and English news translations) simply assume the victim must be a woman. It's just another form of prejudice.
And, it must be great to live in such privilege that one can brand that 2nd hotel employee -- who's obviously fearful of losing his livelihood if he dared to confront any customer -- as "disgusting" for not being able to do anything. He too, is a victim, but who cares let's just blame him, right? If only there's a western hero to step in and save the day.
But what's most disturbing to me is the "my culture is superior than your (Asian) culture" attitude displayed here. This kind of **** attitude is why this incident happened in the first place.
Typhoon Surfer
10th May 2019, 04:44
Seriously? Can we spot the huge irony in these posts?
First, "that poor woman" victim is, in fact, a man. I find it amusing that most westerners here (and English news translations) simply assume the victim must be a woman. It's just another form of prejudice.
And, it must be great to live in such privilege that one can brand that 2nd hotel employee -- who's obviously fearful of losing his livelihood if he dared to confront any customer -- as "disgusting" for not being able to do anything. He too, is a victim, but who cares let's just blame him, right? If only there's a western hero to step in and save the day.
But what's most disturbing to me is the "my culture is superior than your (Asian) culture" attitude displayed here. This kind of **** attitude is why this incident happened in the first place.
What a load of rubbish. Your mental gymnastics are a pathetic and transparent attempt at shifting the blame!
The problem is crystal clear - fear of authority in the culture. It exists in the West too, in certain spheres, where people unfortunately must make daily decisions about where their tolerance boundaries lie. Bullies exist in every culture and walk of life.
But the boundaries (in civilised countries) definitely lie at displays of physical violence in public.
And what does it matter if the victim is male or female! Nobody should be treated like that. NOBODY.
bill fly
10th May 2019, 15:13
Maybe he was angry that the hotel had not ironed his shirt better...
Slow and curious
10th May 2019, 17:03
People need to get their souls ironed.:ouch: