Cirrus down at Tooradin, VIC

[0ttoL]

Looks like a Cirrus, maybe, down at Tooradin, VIC
https://7news.com.au/news/plane-crash-three-people-assessed-by-paramedics-after-incident-in-victoria-c-92200

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

"No-one to hospital' according to the report.

WOW!! …. 'Shaken, but not stirred' comes to mind....
I guess it says a lot for the 'roll cage' cabin protecting the occupants 'as advertised'.....
GOOD ONE.
Cheers

[logansi]

https://i.imgur.com/XksRr0S.jpg

[Horatio Leafblower]

"The plane was extensively damaged."

No kidding?

[Squawk7700]

They really FUF’ed up that landing :-)

This ADSB thing certainly tells a tale when things go pear-shaped! There’s nowhere to hide!


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x1334/69b07170_e041_4552_b2f0_0ac1da6a751a_b2ff17951802f6824b98ee1 932b88c1a026b9364.png

[Capt Fathom]

a gust of wind caused it to flip off course.
Apparently!
​​​​​​​

[zanthrus]

Gust of wind... I call bull****! Glad everyone got out safe.

[Squawk7700]

I like it how the channel 9 reporter called Avia where the aircraft was hired from and they said that it was most likely pilot error and there were no faults with the aircraft.

Case close. (That is not a typo ;-)

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Never flown a Cirrus, do they suffer from ground effect if they come in a bit hot on final?

[machtuk]

Oh that's a nasty outcome! Physically unhurt (very lucky!) but that's something you would never forget!
Be interesting to see what really went wrong.

[Squawk7700]

There was at least one pilot witness there and others that saw it that described what happened on the channel 9 news.

As for landing, you effectively don’t flare them as much as other types, just keep driving onto the ground. If you flare when too slow you’ll hit the tail on the ground. They don’t “hang” like a 172/182 which the pilot was used to. It will be interesting to see her total time on type if/when a report comes out.

On final, recommended 80 knots and no less than 78 usually feels safe, with 75 knots the speed to nail over the keys for normal ops on a decent runway. When the speed drops less than that on final it takes a while for the CSU to kick in when you power up so you need to be careful to not let the speed drop off too much.

That is for the SR20.

[A37575]

don’t flare as much as other types, just keep driving onto the ground.
If you drive any tricycle undercarriage aeroplane into the ground, doesn't that set you up for a damaged nose-wheel and a bounced landing?
What is the maximum permissible crosswind component for landing in a Cirrus? Does the Cirrus require any special crosswind landing technique compared to say a Cessna 172?

[Andy_RR]

.... If you flare when too slow you’ll hit the tail on the ground.


Is the SR20/22 unstable in pitch at high AoA? Does it need MCAS...?

[Squawk7700]

If you drive any tricycle undercarriage aeroplane into the ground, doesn't that set you up for a damaged nose-wheel and a bounced landing?
What is the maximum permissible crosswind component for landing in a Cirrus? Does the Cirrus require any special crosswind landing technique compared to say a Cessna 172?

It sits relatively tail low at that speed so you’re not three-pointing it when you drive it on. Better put, there is a flare, but you aren’t holding off.

20 knots is about the maximum. Not an issue in this case as the crosswind was negligible. It flies like any other aircraft in a crosswind landing that has a fully castoring nose wheel.

[cowl flaps]

They seem to come to pieces quite easily.

Most of the Cessna and Piper stock are always far more 'recognisable'. A plastic fantastic here.

[Okihara]

They seem to come to pieces quite easily.
Most of the Cessna and Piper stock are always far more 'recognisable'. A plastic fantastic here.

With Cessna and Piper aircraft you usually don't have three unscathed occupants to quell speculating theories of what went wrong. If that's at the cost of losing wings and tailplane, then so be it, methinks.

[Capt Fathom]

Piper, Cessna or Cirrus?

It’s a moot point if you just park it back where you got it from!

[Sunfish]

What Okinawa said. You want a structure that absorbs as much as possible of the energy. If it is turned into powder in the process, why would the occupants care?

Reminds me of a story told me by a GMH Engineer regarding second or third generation airbags shortly after they were introduced. They were getting complaints from Commodore drivers along the lines of:

”I had a minor accident and your @#$%# airbags went off and cost me $$$.”

GMH commissioned a University study of a representative sample of these accidents: the result? Each accident was life threatening - the system had worked so well the driver thought the accident was minor.

Sounds to me that Cirrus demonstrates good primary safety though I stand to be corrected.

[cowl flaps]

Not being at all familiar with Tooradin,- How far did the Cirrus end up off the runway ?

Neither the Channel 7 image or the other image posted by Logansi, show any part of the runway in sight.

[Squawk7700]

Approximately at the point in red on the reciprocal runway heading to what is pictured below.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/708x869/a02d4a08_edbf_4ff8_ad75_b9288a928f46_197c47d8be5291801b2ad47 0e5179a61df3418a9.jpeg

Runway 22 is from top to bottom in both pics.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/714x899/c0e5e9b4_61d7_4dec_8898_5c5fade7d71d_2dd11349a5fbdda6a852cf8 eb454b16580e14805.jpeg

Edit: it’s amazing how short the runway looks on final compared to the overhead pic.

[djpil]

About the same distance off the runway but in the opposite direction to this Cessna a few years ago: Kathryn's Report: Cessna 182S, VH-PCO: Accident occurred March 20, 2016 at Tooradin Airport, Victoria, Australia (http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2016/03/cessna-182s-vh-pco-accident-occurred.html)
I don't let people take my tailwheel airplane there, mainly for other reasons, but the wind is a factor.

[gerry111]

Edit: it’s amazing how short the runway looks on final compared to the overhead pic.
I reckon most runways are like that...

[Squawk7700]

I reckon most runways are like that...

They are shorter when you are going faster.

[cowl flaps]

Approximately at the point in red on the reciprocal runway heading to what is pictured below.
Thanks for posting those images Squawk.

Must have been one 'mother......' of a wind gust.

[Egipps]

About th
I don't let people take my tailwheel airplane there, mainly for other reasons, but the wind is a factor.

Not having flown a tailwheel aircraft I've no idea re the significance.guessing harder on the ground in a crosswind?

[Capt Fathom]

I don't let people take my tailwheel airplane there, mainly for other reasons, but the wind is a factor.
Why? If they are trained correctly, why would the wind be a factor? Apart from other reasons??

[Tee Emm]

The Tooradin refueller says witnesses saw the Cirrus 'kangaroo' down the runway after a bad landing and eventually the pilot simply lost control. Nothing to do with wind which was minimal

[Squawk7700]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1334x750/bd4c3fb1_4951_4497_83a6_8fea91838331_f148baf36a814628ec87dc9 f90b8ee83ff79882c.png

Correct... the wind certainly wasn’t significant and was as good as straight down the runway.

[djpil]

Why? If they are trained correctly, why would the wind be a factor? Apart from other reasons??Seems that xwind wasn't a factor in this accident so slightly off topic. Being trained "correctly" at another airfield with a steady xwind and, based at YMMB, perhaps not being current in strong xwinds make the wind a factor so a decision on the day for the specific pilot.

[Capn Bloggs]

That gutter needs work, Squawk! Perhaps Shifty Bill could oblige...