Future at Qantas

[f1yhigh]

Hi everyone, just wondering if any of you can shed some light on a few queries of mine.

1. What's the current situation with ETOPS approval for the SCL and JNB services?

2. What aircraft will replace these services if CASA does or doesn't play ball?

3. What are Qantas' options in regards to this ETOPS issue? I would certainly hope that Qantas won't be plagued by quad jets on these routes forever (at the mercy of CASA).

4. I also read somewhere that the A380 can't operate the south polar routes, is that true and if so, can it be rectified?

5. Is the JNB service from PER still on the cards? And if so, will that be a replacement for the SYD-JNB service?

6. What will happen to PER-LHR and any other future European destinations ex PER once Project Sunrise takes off (pun intended)?

7. Can the A330 operate the PER-JNB route with current ETOPS?

8. Feel free to discuss any future fleet developments at Qantas. The more discussion the better!

Thank you in advance.

[SixDemonBag]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/316x200/image_10563f520c116c01d0cdec0a06c14b950493a5ca.gif

[PlasticFantastic]

I'll leave 1-4 for others who know the answers beyond doubt. I've heard plenty of credible opinions about them, but I'm sure someone here will know the answer.

Qantas is still keen on PER-JNB and had planned to use an A330 for the route. They assigned the airframe in question to another route, so notionally they no longer have a plane spare, but realistically they rejig the route map often enough that they could likely start it up if they can resolve their dispute with PER.

From memory, the A330 has to make a very minor adjustment to fly PER-JNB, but it's pretty negligible (and certainly more efficient than flying a 747 in a straight line).

Joyce is on the record that Qantas wants to keep PER-LHR once Sunrise starts, and with expected population and passenger growth, would even contemplate upgauging the route from the 787 to the Sunrise aircraft (presumably once they've launched all of the East coast routes, so mid-2020s).

[Maggie Island]

Nice try BNEA320

[tail wheel]

Nice try BNEA320

No relationship.

[dragon man]

With another 3 years just announced for Joyce I’d say it’s pretty dismal.

[Scooter Rassmussin]

Joyce will now order the A320 NEO aircraft for Network and slowly erode the mainline 737 operation , slowly but surely.

[Don Diego]

Has he placed any orders in the last decade?? Project "sunrise" will be rolled out when the aircraft purchased is solar powered. LH is terminal and this mob have no intention of saving it.

[Rated De]

Has he placed any orders in the last decade?? Project "sunrise" will be rolled out when the aircraft purchased is solar powered. LH is terminal and this mob have no intention of saving it.

Elon Musk and Little Napoleon can discuss fanciful ideas, like being on Mars in a year or rolling out 500 odd commercial pilots in a month's time!

The narrative was established three weeks before the grounding of 'terminal' Qantas in 2011.
The International Air Services commission was asked to allow 'wholly owned subsidiaries' to operate to Europe with the exception of two daily flights to London.
Jetstar to the world was the plan, they needed an 'financial justification' so Qantas became terminal. A simple shift of cost.

A small problem though is that apparently Little Napoleon 'transformed' it too.

[crosscutter]

Joyce will now order the A320 NEO aircraft for Network and slowly erode the mainline 737 operation , slowly but surely.


You keep repeating this. Unlike Dubai there is a Fair Work Act in this great land. Network may grow...it may get more A320’s..but it can’t (under current legislation) erode Mainline 737 flying as you say. QF would have done it years ago if they could.

With the softening of the economy, leisure travel is affected to a greater degree. Re Flight Centre recent release to the ASX. But being cheaper labour, Network can’t even take flying from Jetstar because ... it’s against the law.

[Rated De]

You keep repeating this. Unlike Dubai there is a Fair Work Act in this great land. Network may grow...it may get more A320’s..but it can’t (under current legislation) erode Mainline 737 flying as you say. QF would have done it years ago if they could.

With the softening of the economy, leisure travel is affected to a greater degree. Re Flight Centre recent release to the ASX. But being cheaper labour, Network can’t even take flying from Jetstar because ... it’s against the law.


Airline management is grappling with a stark and quietly escalating issue; getting pilots in cockpit.
Demographics are a long term bet.
For decades management of airlines had pilots with huge personal investments in time and money lining up.
That is no longer the case.
As the bet starts the pay -off and retirement rates increase they will continue to undermine and facilitate additional supply, growing ever more desperate to hold a status quo line. Their very IR strategy is built upon it.

It isn't a law that will stop it is simply the increased retirement rates. Airline management hope pilots don't notice that Network, Jetstar, Alliance or Jetconnect only serve their intended purpose with over supply of pilots.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

You keep repeating this. Unlike Dubai there is a Fair Work Act in this great land. Network may grow...it may get more A320’s..but it can’t (under current legislation) erode Mainline 737 flying as you say. QF would have done it years ago if they could.

With the softening of the economy, leisure travel is affected to a greater degree. Re Flight Centre recent release to the ASX. But being cheaper labour, Network can’t even take flying from Jetstar because ... it’s against the law.

Didn’t the Cobham 717s replace a fair amount of qantas mainline flying up and down the east coast? The fair work act didn’t protect that, why would it protect mainline flying now?

[Capt Fathom]

What happened to the Toowoomba Flying School and the yet unannounced second school? Bueller? Anyone?

[VH DSJ]

What happened to the Toowoomba Flying School and the yet unannounced second school? Bueller? Anyone?

The cryptic comments and use of key players' initials in the Pearson Aviation thread suggests something brewing in Mildura? But who knows? This is a rumour network afterall.

[crosscutter]

Didn’t the Cobham 717s replace a fair amount of qantas mainline flying up and down the east coast? The fair work act didn’t protect that, why would it protect mainline flying now?

Cobham indeed are doing some of that flying. 737s were utilised elsewhere. There was no reduction in Mainline 737 flying hours

Importantly, with an EBA in negotiation I don’t want junior pilots fearing for their job... fearing that if you don’t sign this then we’ll give your flying away.. esp Perth base flying where the most junior reside. This is false logic and anyone who spreads this fear needs to be called out on it.

You cannot transfer flying from one red tail to a lower cost labour red tail resulting in redundancies in the most expensive. It is a fundamental premise of the Fair Work Act.

[Blitzkrieger]

Three more years of Joyce will see more of the same divide and conquer tactics you’ve enjoyed for what seems like an eternity already. Denigrating the entities absorbed into or created by QF for doing the flying that QF foist upon them is aiding in the division ECAMS. I think you’ll find that the techies operating the 717 are not too dissimilar to yourself.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Three more years of Joyce will see more of the same divide and conquer tactics you’ve enjoyed for what seems like an eternity already. Denigrating the entities absorbed into or created by QF for doing the flying that QF foist upon them is aiding in the division ECAMS. I think you’ll find that the techies operating the 717 are not too dissimilar to yourself.




I wasn’t denigrating them, I was simply stating a fact regarding their taking over some mainline flying as Network may do in the future.

Given that I work for JQ it would be pretty hypocritical of me to criticise the 717 boys.

[Street garbage]

Joyce will now order the A320 NEO aircraft for Network and slowly erode the mainline 737 operation , slowly but surely.

Joyce will procrastinate, it's what he's best at, pity the next CEO who has to clean up his mess.
As for Network, that's been an outstanding success with crew recruitment.

[Street garbage]

Didn’t the Cobham 717s replace a fair amount of qantas mainline flying up and down the east coast? The fair work act didn’t protect that, why would it protect mainline flying now?
B737 flying increased by 1500 hours in April..

[f1yhigh]

Heard a rumour that the 747s will fly past 2020? Any truth to this?

[Capt Fathom]

There is no truth in aviation... Only rumours!

[Rated De]

Heard a rumour that the 747s will fly past 2020? Any truth to this?

As a rudderless ship, with Little Napoleon resplendent in full regalia at the helm it drifts ever closer to the lee shore...

An airline management more concerned with column inches on captured media outlets, scrap booking pictures of themselves saving cardboard cups and plastic on a flight to Adelaide, the 747 might be around for far longer than anybody expected.
Running an airline with a strategic vision is too much the grind for Fort Fumble, best to spend the time driving social discourse.

[phone]

There is no truth in aviation... Only rumours!
can’t agree more unless it get published

[ANCDU]

You cannot transfer flying from one red tail to a lower cost labour red tail resulting in redundancies in the most expensive. It is a fundamental premise of the Fair Work Act.

Actually yes it can, it got close to happening around 2011 if I remember correctly. If a large number of crew hadn’t gone to other airlines on LWOP, MOU’s etc there would have been significant redundancies. This was all happening while Jetconnect went merrily on its way....be careful how much you rely on the Fair Work Act, because I am pretty sure champagne corks were popping at the campus when the election result came through.

[The Green Goblin]

Actually yes it can, it got close to happening around 2011 if I remember correctly. If a large number of crew hadn’t gone to other airlines on LWOP, MOU’s etc there would have been significant redundancies. This was all happening while Jetconnect went merrily on its way....be careful how much you rely on the Fair Work Act, because I am pretty sure champagne corks were popping at the campus when the election result came through.



Corks were popping at any table where the occupants were gainfully employed.

The unemployed were banking on a labor win for their champagne.

[ANCDU]

Corks were popping at any table where the occupants were gainfully employed.

The unemployed were banking on a labor win for their champagne.

i don’t disagree, but I think management were a lot happier with the result when considering their options for Industrial Relations.

[crosscutter]

If a large number of crew hadn’t gone to other airlines on LWOP, MOU’s etc there would have been significant redundancies. This was all happening while Jetconnect went merrily on its way....


There would have been redundancies...mostly voluntary...but if some were compulsory Jetconnect could have continued ‘merrily’ but no further growth in Jetconnect would have been possible... As per the Fairwork Act.

At the risk of flogging the dead horse...you cannot simultaneously make employees redundant in a higher cost area and recruit in the lower cost area.

So to flog the dead horse because clearly some just don’t get it... the moment a Mainline pilot was made redundant, Jetconnect growth (in this case), if any, would have to stop and the Trans Tasman flying not already crewed by Jetconnect would be crewed by Mainline. This, as per the Act, would have to continue until such time as the most junior person made redundant was reemployed. This also means any attrition in Jetconnect could not be replaced...instead the flying be returned to Mainline.

The consequences for Qantas of making a pilot redundant are far more expensive than just the wages involved. It is complicated, it has flow on effects and as we have seen QF were willing to try and walk on water to prevent it. And it has nothing to do with coming across as a good employer I can promise you.

[Shipwreck00]

And for us maintenance people, well if they have their way we wont exist unless we go and work overseas in some half baked lowly paid outfit. No one cares, not even the so called regulator who turns a blind eye to all the issues from overseas maintenance, even the ALAEA has gone quiet these days. What the public don't know might hurt them one day. What about Australian jobs for Australian jobs

[wombat watcher]

And for us maintenance people, well if they have their way we wont exist unless we go and work overseas in some half baked lowly paid outfit. No one cares, not even the so called regulator who turns a blind eye to all the issues from overseas maintenance, even the ALAEA has gone quiet these days. What the public don't know might hurt them one day. What about Australian jobs for Australian jobs


Joyce cleaned up the ALAEA and they are now neutered. What’s happened to Tony Sheldon’s TWU? Same.
Hawke got the AFAP. The cabin crew unions got themselves.
The FedSec of the the ALAEA used to be on TV as much as Karl Stefanovic but these days they have equal air time.

[Shipwreck00]

Joyce cleaned up the ALAEA and they are now neutered. What’s happened to Tony Sheldon’s TWU? Same.
Hawke got the AFAP. The cabin crew unions got themselves.
The FedSec of the the ALAEA used to be on TV as much as Karl Stefanovic but these days they have equal air time.

And what about CASA?