Kailua fatal crash 29/04/2019

[John Eacott]

3 dead after fiery helicopter crash on busy Kailua road (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/04/29/least-dead-helicopter-crash-kailua/?fbclid=IwAR3FZ_Um4Op8wABTtLuZAm4Oj0lZHKLC41xEy2JDI4YdHZfNur 1dBtx1nEw)

April 29, 2019 at 9:27 AM HST - Updated April 29 at 1:47 PM
KAILUA (HawaiiNewsNow) - Three people were killed Monday when a tour helicopter spun out of control and crashed nose-first on a busy Kailua roadway, bursting into flames.
The crash on Oneawa Street about 9 a.m. produced a shocking scene for drivers and nearby residents, who rushed to the site in the slim hope that someone on board had survived.
Bystanders aimed their garden hoses at the fire to try to put out the blaze, and pulled at least one of the victims from the burning craft.
“Neighbors were doing a heroic effort trying to put out the fire and also trying to get the patients away from the burning aircraft,” said Shayne Enright, spokeswoman for the city Emergency Services Department. She confirmed all three victims were pronounced dead at the scene.
Witness Tehani Alo said she saw the helicopter spinning out of control before it came crashing down.
“It sounded like hell landing,” she said.
Another resident described the crash this way: “Horrible.”
According to the FAA, the chopper was a four-seat Robinson R44. It was owned by a helicopter tour company ― Novictor Helicopters, officials confirmed.
It wasn’t immediately clear why the chopper came down. Authorities said it crashed during heavy rains under “unknown circumstances."
Witness Adrian Kozuki, who lives nearby, said he was in his backyard when the crash happened.
“I heard the helicopter in the air and all of a sudden I heard a pop, like a blast kind of thing,” he said. Then, within 15 seconds, he said he could see smoke coming out.
The crash sent debris onto nearby homes, properties and cars. At least one vehicle was significantly damaged when a fuel tank landed on its hood.
Mike Cunningham was driving when he saw the chopper crash about 20 feet in front of him.
He said the helicopter came down “very hard, nose first.”
“I saw the wires shaking, and right after that the wires broke and a helicopter came crashing through the trees,” Cunningham said, adding that as soon as it hit the ground, it was already on fire.
“I don’t see how anybody could’ve walked away from it,” Cunningham said. “It was in flames immediately. And you couldn’t get close to it.”
Lisa Dow lives about two blocks from where the chopper came down, and said she heard the helicopter in the air and then the sound of the crash.
[Read more: In wake of deadly crash, lawmaker calls on authorities to ground tour helicopters]
She said the chopper “pretty much disintegrated” on impact.
“It’s horrible,” she said. “The blessing is that nobody on the ground got hit.”
Added witness Vanessa Solomon: “The saddest part was knowing that there were people falling out of the sky. It was hard to see that."
The noise of the crash shook Ikona Kaapana’s house.
“When it was falling, it wasn’t on fire,” he said. “It was all black and there was no propellers and it was on it’s side when it was falling. We heard it land and it just went up in smoke."
Honolulu police have shut down all lanes of Oneawa Street near Kalolina Street as authorities investigate.
Novictor was involved in a separate helicopter crash in October.
In that incident, a Robinson R-44 crashed just off the Kaneohe sand bar after the pilot reportedly had a medical emergency and passed out. A couple visiting from Chicago was seriously injured in the crash.
The chopper crash is also the second this month.
Earlier in April, a helicopter went down near Sacred Falls after an apparent engine failure.
The Paradise Helicopters aircraft was contracted by the state Land Department, and crashed into trees before hitting the ground.
In that incident, all four people on board the helicopter refused transport to the hospital.


Looks like an R44, photos here (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/gallery/2019/04/29/photos-helicopter-crash/?fbclid=IwAR2anOQlmOVFLJGm-nLWIlWVbZ3-b-oWmHFqCaDerrZDRyV53bwE4LvDRGY).

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/resizer/ST-QFwA7DQQj_sERRRm-sY_SpV4=/1400x0/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-raycom.s3.amazonaws.com/public/WU4FBBID7JC3LLKD4ULCR2G4C4.jpg

[Ascend Charlie]

As usual, conflicting reports:

"it was already on fire before it landed"

"There was no fire before it landed"

And some goose demands all helicopter tours be grounded, with no reference to the numbers of people killed in car crashes every day.

[SASless]

No doubt upon the outcome.....scratch one helicopter and three lives.

[Airbubba]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1067x703/n808nv_2_1cf2966b728476ee1954c30ad7d0977eb2496d6f.jpg



Official: 3 dead in helicopter crash in Honolulu suburbBy JENNIFER SINCO KELLEHER30 minutes agohttps://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/media:b6aef13c13db4c258a3e59038352f947/800.jpeg (left=https://www.apnews.com/0276cd657d9148129363f40f14e4b299/gallery/media:b6aef13c13db4c258a3e59038352f947)1 of 8 (left=https://www.apnews.com/0276cd657d9148129363f40f14e4b299/gallery/media:b6aef13c13db4c258a3e59038352f947)
Investigators stand around the wreckage of a helicopter, Monday, April 29, 2019, in Kailua, Hawaii. Fire and helicopter parts rained from the sky Monday in a suburban Honolulu community in a crash that killed three people aboard, officials and witnesses said. (AP Photo/Marco Garcia) (left=https://www.apnews.com/0276cd657d9148129363f40f14e4b299/gallery/media:b6aef13c13db4c258a3e59038352f947)HONOLULU (AP) — Fire and helicopter parts rained from the sky Monday in a suburban Honolulu community as a tour helicopter crashed and killed all three people aboard, officials and witnesses said.

“All you could see was fire,” witness Melissa Solomon said, explaining that she was driving on the street when she looked up to see flames and a helicopter plummeting in front of her.

She said she had turn onto another street because she was afraid more pieces were going to fall from the sky onto her and her 16-year-old daughter sitting in the front passenger seat.

“We could have been smashed by it,” she said.Paramedics responding to an unrelated call from a patient with leg pain about 30 yards (27 meters) away heard “a horrific bang,” said Shayne Enright, a spokeswoman for Honolulu Emergency Medical Services. When they turned around, they saw a helicopter on fire.
“When they got there, neighbors were doing a heroic job trying to put out the fire and also trying to get the patients away from the burning aircraft,” Enright said.

The crash occurred in Kailua, a town of 50,000 people about a 30-minute drive from downtown Honolulu.

The crash site was on a two-lane road amid one and two-story homes.

Darel Robinson was doing construction work at a house about a half-mile from the crash site when he heard what sounded like helicopter blades thumping and then a loud boom.

“It was going nose down and parts were starting to fly off,” he said.

Megan Lacy of Alabama was visiting friends when they heard the crash. They went outside, expecting to find two cars after they had hit each other.

“We were really confused,” she said. “And then we heard screaming and the word ‘fire,’ and I saw smoke,” she said. Debris damaged her rental car about 100 yards (90 meters) from the crash.

A resident said he heard the morning crash then saw a ball of fire in a road when he ran from his house.

Leleo Knappenberger told Hawaii News Now that his mother heard the helicopter flying over the house, making a strange noise.

He said he later saw what appeared to be the tail end of the helicopter.

“It’s all smashed to pieces,” he said.

Federal Aviation Administration spokesman Ian Gregor said the agency believes three people were on board the four-seat, Robinson R44 aircraft.

He said the circumstances of the crash were unknown.

No further details were available on those killed.

The helicopter, which was built in 2000, is registered to United Helicopter Leasing LLC of Honolulu, according to FAA records. State business records show Nicole Vandelaar as the manager.

A woman who answered the phone at the business and identified herself as Nicole declined to immediately comment, saying she was too busy to talk.

A website for the Honolulu tour helicopter company Novictor Helicopters identified Nicole Vandelaar as founder and CEO. The website said she is an expert pilot commercially licensed to fly helicopters and airplanes.

A Novictor helicopter crashed on a sandbar in Kaneohe in October after the pilot lost consciousness twice. That crash resulted in injuries to the pilot and two passengers. It was also a Robinson R44 aircraft.

State Rep. Cynthia Thielen, who represents Kailua, said she wants the FAA to prohibit tour flights over Hawaii’s residential areas and national parks. The Republican lawmaker wants Hawaii’s congressional delegation to ask the FAA to implement such restrictions.

Thielen also called for tour helicopter flights to be grounded until an investigation into the crash is completed.

Kailua is home to a Marine Corps base. In recent years it’s become a popular destination for tourists to go to the beach, hike and shop.

Former President Barack Obama stayed at a rented beachfront vacation home in the town during the winter holidays when he was in the White House.


Apparently N808NV, sistership N806NV was in trail shortly before the mishap but went out over the water. Both helos departed HNL about 1850Z and the crash occurred about 1912Z. Personal effects and a GoPro camera were found in yards near the wreckage according to local media reports. Eyewitnesses reported heavy precip in the area when the helo came down.

The helicopters are operated by Novictor Helocopters which is owned by helo pilot Nicole Vandelaar Battjes.

[Robbiee]

I once asked about working for that company. The response I got from a former pilot was, "don't!"

[Self loading bear]

......

And some goose demands all helicopter tours be grounded, with no reference to the numbers of people killed in car crashes every day.

By nature a goose is more worried about air traffic.

[Airbubba]

From the Honolulu Star-Advertiser:

Pilot in Kailua crash had just moved to Hawaii to fly tour helicopters, his father saysBy Star-Advertiser Staff (https://www.staradvertiser.com/author/Star-Advertiser-staff/) and Associated Press
April 30, 2019
Updated 9:41 p.m.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/760x641/web1_ap19121032284344_03c8bff71263c3eb6d64b8028f73fb093b0a26 11.jpgJospeh Berridge, who moved from Albuquerque, was the pilot of a four-seat Robinson R44 aircraft that crashed Monday morning on Oneawa Street. Pictured is Berridge with a Robinson R44 helicopter in Albuquerque, N.M.

A 28-year-old man who moved to Honolulu two weeks ago from New Mexico was the pilot who died along with two passengers when a tour helicopter crashed in a Kailua neighborhood, his father said today.

Joseph Berridge, who moved from Albuquerque, was the pilot of a four-seat Robinson R44 aircraft that crashed Monday morning on Oneawa Street, his father, Bobby Berridge, told The Associated Press from Garfield, New Mexico, where his son grew up on a 250-acre farm.

“It was always my son’s dream to go to Hawaii and fly tours for a couple of years,” Bobby Berridge said. His son’s girlfriend and dog were preparing to join him.

The Honolulu Medical Examiner’s Office today released the identity of one of the two women onboard the helicopter with Berridge. (https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/04/30/breaking-news/2-females-1-male-died-in-kailua-helicopter-crash-police-say/) She has been identified as Ryan McAuliffe, 28, of Chicago. Australian news reports cited family members in saying that the third victim was Jan Burgess, a grandmother and great-grandmother who was on vacation with other family members.

Bobby Berridge says his son’s employer, Novictor Helicopters, contacted his son’s girlfriend about the crash.

CEO and chief pilot Nicole Vandelaar declined to confirm the pilot’s name.

“This accident is heartbreaking for everyone, especially the families and friends of the passengers and pilot, who was part of our Novictor family,” Vandelaar said in a statement. “Our thoughts and prayers go out to all of them.”

The cause of the crash has not been determined.

Investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board were at the crash site today.

“I don’t know what happened with the crash, but he was a great helicopter pilot and he knew what he was doing,” Bobby Berridge said. “I’m not going to point fingers at this time.”

His son loved helicopters and also had an instructors’ license. “I talked to him about three or four days ago. He was on the beach enjoying life,” Bobby Berridge said. “He said, ‘Who has it better than I do?’”

The Honolulu Medical Examiner’s Office today found that the cause of death for all three individuals was “multiple blunt force injuries due to helicopter crash.” Toxicology testing and testing required by the Federal Aviation Administration are also being performed. However, those results are not expected for several weeks or months.

[[email protected]]

Hmm, someone used to Alberquerque sunshine suddenly exposed to Hawaiian downpours a possible factor?

[Robbiee]

Hmm, someone used to Alberquerque sunshine suddenly exposed to Hawaiian downpours a possible factor?

My first time flying in the rain was while training in Phoenix. It rains in the desert too :hmm:

[Bell_ringer]

My first time flying in the rain was while training in Phoenix. It rains in the desert too :hmm:

It rains everywhere.
Someone not familiar with how sudden, variable and intense coastal weather in tropical environments can be may be in for a hard lesson.
You would hope that a youngster, new to the area wouldn't be left to their own devices.
It's unlikely someone that young and new would have the strength to say no if they weren't comfortable.
Why is it so often robbies that end up like this?
Cheap tours can have a heavy cost.

[SASless]

How much flying time do you have in New Mexico in a Robbie?

[[email protected]]

It rains in the desert too According to t'interweb, the rainiest months in Alberquerque are July and August when they get a whole 2 inches of rain spread over an average of 12-15 days. In coastal regions in UK (not even remotely tropical) you can get that much rain in a couple of hours.

I imagine that Hawaii is much like the Caribbean where it can go from bright sunshine to stair rods in the blink of an eye if you don't avoid the showers.

[EMS R22]

Hmm, someone used to Alberquerque sunshine suddenly exposed to Hawaiian downpours a possible factor?


You've got to be joking??

This industry amazes me every day.

RIP all involved.

[Robbiee]

How much flying time do you have in New Mexico in a Robbie?


None, but I got my commercial in Hawaii.

,...if that is, you were talking to me.

[SASless]

Crab,

New Mexico does have a bit of Snow that can make the flying quite interesting at times....not to mention the terrain and elevation.

You might be confusing Arizona with New Mexico

I would be more concerned about the presence of Turbulence if there was some convective activity in that potential sudden downpour of rain ya'll seem to have yer concerns about.

[havoc]

Rep. Case Sends Letter to FAA on Helicopter Concerns | Big Island Now (http://bigislandnow.com/2019/04/30/rep-case-sends-letter-to-faa-on-helicopter-concerns/)=leftRep. Case Sends Letter to FAA on Helicopter ConcernsBy Big Island NowApril 30, 2019, 4:32 PM HST (Updated April 30, 2019, 4:34 PM)

Congressman Ed Case released the following letter (http://bigislandnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Ed-Case-Letter-to-FAA.pdf) on Tuesday, April 30, 2019, addressed to Raquel Girvin, the Regional Administrator for the Western-Pacific Region of the Federal Aviation Administration.

In his letter to Regional Administrator Girvin, Case also attached the letter he received yesterday from Hawai‘i State Rep. Cynthia Thielen, as well as a previous letter he sent to the Regional Administrator on the issue of Helicopter-Small Aircraft Commercial Air Tour Operations in Hawai‘i.http://bigislandnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Screen-Shot-2019-04-30-at-4.23.46-PM-1024x950.png (http://bigislandnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Screen-Shot-2019-04-30-at-4.23.46-PM.png)
http://bigislandnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Screen-Shot-2019-04-30-at-4.24.53-PM-1024x552.png (http://bigislandnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Screen-Shot-2019-04-30-at-4.24.53-PM.png)

[gulliBell]

I'd be more concerned about Robinson helicopters carrying fare paying passengers. Period. Restrict them to Private Category, flight training, and air work.

[[email protected]]

You've got to be joking?? How many crashes do we see on these pages caused by getting caught out by the weather?? I'm just saying it could be a factor - I'm sure you have flown under a CB and experienced the very limited visibility and turbulence.


SAS - unless there are 2 Alberquerques I think I extracted the correct weather data for NM :ok:

[aa777888]

I'd be more concerned about Robinson helicopters carrying fare paying passengers. Period. Restrict them to Private Category, flight training, and air work.
That is ridiculous. Just because you can't keep them flying in NZ doesn't mean the rest of the world has that problem. Certainly not in the US. We've been over this a million times. In the US, absolute numbers, per year, for incidents and fatalities remain comparable to Bell. Still waiting for someone to come up with credible US fleet hour data so that a rate-based comparison can be made. I even contacted the FAA in search of that data and could not obtain it. They only had hours-flown data by category and class, not make, much less model.

[Bell_ringer]

The flightradar image has the one aircraft quite far out over the bay, from their facebook page the 44's don't look like they are float-equipped. Is that accepted practice?
As much as it will upset the Robinsons, repeated overflight of built-up areas in piston helicopters for passenger transport does not sound like the best way to avoid problems or noise complaints long-term.

[aa777888]

As much as it will upset the Robinsons, repeated overflight of built-up areas in piston helicopters for passenger transport does not sound like the best way to avoid problems or noise complaints long-term.Oh, hell yeah! We lost access to a prime heli destination in my neck of the woods, a very nice restaurant in an un-traditional location, because of the idiotic actions of a local tour company. The same idiots got helicopter operations restricted at a nearby airport as well. Both the restaurant and airport became the target of complaints because the tour company was doing stupid stuff over nearby residential areas and this made the locals hypersensitive to ANY helicopter operations. Rather than face a social media ****-storm, the both locations rolled over and showed their bellies.

And, yes, they were and are operating Robinson helicopters, but that is merely incidental to this issue because they are so popular (i.e. profitable). And they are much quieter than a turbine helicopter, too, not that that was any help in the situation.

[Spunk]

So there are actually „Greenies“ in the US Congress?:E

[gulliBell]

That is ridiculous...

My point is, the crash worthiness of the design isn't favorable to passenger welfare. I mean, basically you're sitting on a 2 inch foam padded tin bucket in a Robinson, mostly reliant on fixed steel cross tubes to absorb crash forces (other helicopter types have similar attributes, for sure). And very little space separating you from cabin structures. When you are fare paying passenger in an aircraft, I think a higher standard should apply than that. Anyway, the choice to not fly in such a contraption is often an option.

[gulliBell]

Anyway. The post crash photo of the smouldering wreckage laying in the street shows both TR blades attached to the TR hub, and not bent at all. Which gives one a hunch they weren't turning under power or all that fast at the instant of impact. Consistent also with eye witness reports of loss of directional control whilst in flight.

[[email protected]]

Oh, hell yeah! We lost access to a prime heli destination in my neck of the woods, a very nice restaurant in an un-traditional location, because of the idiotic actions of a local tour company. The same idiots got helicopter operations restricted at a nearby airport as well. Possibly a function of using low-time, hours-building pilots who don't know any better and who will work for bottom dollar - not a great combination for safe commercial air transport work.............

[Bell_ringer]

Possibly a function of using low-time, hours-building pilots who don't know any better and who will work for bottom dollar - not a great combination for safe commercial air transport work.............

Possibly more of a function of the types that found companies where the business model is to make a quick buck by cutting costs and corners. Standards, processes and procedures are so inconvenient and expensive.
If you can turn $200 a head every 15 to 20 minutes, who cares about those poor schmucks on the ground :suspect:

[nomorehelosforme]

Well here is one tour firm the FAA seem to approve of in Hawaii

https://www.verticalmag.com/press-releases/maverick-helicopters-wins-award-for-best-air-tour-company/

They also won another award.

https://www.verticalmag.com/press-releases/maverick-helicopters-awarded-faas-diamond-award-of-excellence/

[Robbiee]

Possibly a function of using low-time, hours-building pilots who don't know any better and who will work for bottom dollar - not a great combination for safe commercial air transport work.............

More like bottom feeder operators (many of whom have questionable maintenance practices) who treat their pilots like slaves knowing these low time hour builders have to "pay their dues" in such shotty operations if they ever want to fatten their books up enough to one day "earn" that liveable wage!

When your boss drives a Ferrari while you're living in your Civic, something just ain't right!

[Tuk]

More like bottom feeder operators (many of whom have questionable maintenance practices) who treat their pilots like slaves knowing these low time hour builders have to "pay their dues" in such shotty operations if they ever want to fatten their books up enough to one day "earn" that liveable wage!

When your boss drives a Ferrari while you're living in your Civic, something just ain't right!


You're on to something with that line of thinking, in this case she drives a Jag and the kiddie pilots rely mainly on tips to eat and find shelter.

[mickjoebill]

Studying the few pictures taken shortly after the impact when the 44 was on fire.
On this evidence it looks like the fuel cell did not spill its guts, or if it did there was a very low volume of fuel to spill.

It is unlikely two blokes in shorts and garden hoses could extinguish a raging avgas fuel fire.

Poor crash-worthiness of frame, seats and proximity of passenger heads to unpadded interior is not uncommon in light aircraft.

At least we are seeing fewer catastrophic post impact fires on R44s..


mjb

[Paul Cantrell]

Oh, hell yeah! We lost access to a prime heli destination in my neck of the woods, a very nice restaurant in an un-traditional location, because of the idiotic actions of a local tour company. The same idiots got helicopter operations restricted at a nearby airport as well. Both the restaurant and airport became the target of complaints because the tour company was doing stupid stuff over nearby residential areas and this made the locals hypersensitive to ANY helicopter operations. Rather than face a social media ****-storm, the both locations rolled over and showed their bellies.

And, yes, they were and are operating Robinson helicopters, but that is merely incidental to this issue because they are so popular (i.e. profitable). And they are much quieter than a turbine helicopter, too, not that that was any help in the situation.

Unfortunately I know who you're talking about, and in that particular case (from what I understand from people more informed than I) was that this particular owner/operator had a macho "you can't tell me what to do" attitude, and he pissed off a bunch of people with the result that we can't drop in for a lobster roll any more! Unfortunately there isn't a lot the rest of us can do when there's an operator like that, despite the fact that his actions have a negative effect on us all.

What continually angers me is that when I do recurrent training with a pilot, few of them think about the noise/annoyance they make. I can't tell you how many pilots I encounter that, when given a task of a confined area approach, only think about wind and terrain, but nothing about the noise they make, where they could come in a different way with a little cross wind and nobody would even know they had landed. Instead they fly directly over a neighborhood, and when I query them about it always get told the same thing: "nobody ever talked to me about that". So much for HAI's "Fly Friendly".

As for the R44 as a tour machine: It's probably the best suited piston machine for that job. You don't have to worry about cycles on the engine, so lots of short flights with idle time between flights is fine. Everybody has a window seat, so the view is good. In almost every respect it's easier to fly and more forgiving than an R22 (which is what a lot of the entry level tour pilots will be coming from). It's pretty fast, so if you're trying to make a loop around the island/city/whatever you can cover ground pretty fast.

I did notice in one of the quoted news articles that the pilot was a flight instructor, although it didn't say whether/how much instruction he had given. In the US, it's ridiculously easy to get a commercial helicopter certificate. The two main avenues to your first "real" pilot job is either flight instruction or tours. To think that someone with 150 hours can be out there flying with 3 blissfully ignorant (of the dangers) passengers just gives me shivers. And yet, when I had 150 hours I probably thought I was a pretty good stick. You look back on stuff like that and shake your head at how much you didn't know. And not only about flying! As a new pilot you're totally unprepared on how to deal with management. Few new pilots are prepared to push back on an owner who's taking risks and cutting corners. They don't have the experience to know where to draw the line. And lets face it, the passengers would probably be horrified to learn what a new pilot is willing to put up with to get that hours building job.

[nomorehelosforme]

Kailua Neighborhood Board seek a ban on helicopter flights over the beach community.

The Kailua Neighborhood Board has passed a resolution asking for a federal ban of all tour helicopters over the beach community, and has sent a formal letter to the Federal Aviation Administration outlining details of that request.

On Sunday, board chair Bill Hicks sent a letter (https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/09/16/breaking-news/neighborhood-board-sends-letter-to-faa-requesting-tour-helicopter-ban-over-kailua/#bottom_anchor) to Steve Dickson, administrator of the FAA, as well as Nicole Vandelaar, chairperson of the Hawaii Helicopter (https://hawaiihelicopterassociation.org/)
Association (https://hawaiihelicopterassociation.org/).



https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/09/16/hawaii-news/neighborhood-board-sends-letter-to-faa-requesting-tour-helicopter-ban-over-kailua/

[Robbiee]

I did notice in one of the quoted news articles that the pilot was a flight instructor, although it didn't say whether/how much instruction he had given. In the US, it's ridiculously easy to get a commercial helicopter certificate. The two main avenues to your first "real" pilot job is either flight instruction or tours. To think that someone with 150 hours can be out there flying with 3 blissfully ignorant (of the dangers) passengers just gives me shivers. And yet, when I had 150 hours I probably thought I was a pretty good stick. You look back on stuff like that and shake your head at how much you didn't know. And not only about flying! As a new pilot you're totally unprepared on how to deal with management. Few new pilots are prepared to push back on an owner who's taking risks and cutting corners. They don't have the experience to know where to draw the line. And lets face it, the passengers would probably be horrified to learn what a new pilot is willing to put up with to get that hours building job.

For what its worth, although yes, the commercial rating is ridiculously easy (basically a ppl with slightly tighter margins) a 150 hour pilot can't even get a job washing a helicopter here in the States. You'll need 200 hours to be an instructor in a Robinson, but even then, tour jobs in the 44 like this one in Hawaii, generally require at least 500 hours.

By the way, not all of us low timers don't know where to draw the line, or are willing to put up with these asshole operators and do "anything" to build hours!,...but yeah, we aren't taught much about noise.

,...and yes, there are tour companies out there that if someone I knew said they were going to take a ride with, I'd screem at them to avoid that place like the plague!

[aa777888]

I had excellent instruction about noise footprints and being a friendly helicopter pilot. Based on my insurance rates, it appears my school is considered exceptional. I feel very lucky to have learned where I did. Seriously, not being snarky! Based also on what I've read here and on various other helicopter internet resources, damn lucky! Which is, sadly, a backward indictment of a lot of other schools. Indeed, another local school just went out of business. Pissed of some local establishments that USED to be helicopter friendly, and pissed away all their money doing stupid stuff. At least nobody got killed in the process :ugh:

All I can say is don't pick a school that does the minimum, and don't pick a school that only has you flying paved runway to paved runway with an occasional foray into 80 acre farm fields that are "confined". But not everyone has the luxury to make those choices, of course.

[Bell_ringer]

https://verticalmag.com/news/novictor-helicopters-senate-report-faa-oversight/