MAGPAS AW169 launch event

[chopper2004]

I had the pleasure mid week to attend the launch of the MAGPAS new Leonardo AW169 (supplied by SAS)..It will replace Helimedix 99 next fortnight or so, so here are my photos first of all from the RAF Wyton base including formation flying.

Cheers


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/img_7193_19d62d88b8c1812005af4419095c885e21bf89d1.jpeg
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https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/58374872_2575364559160040_8094068643307978752_o_a06126f05e16 74564ad2c3f2d568e52100b90dd3.jpg
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[Hedski]

A charity with no affiliation to any ambulance service, who have often given false ETA’s in order to get tasked ahead of closer HEMS units (duty of care and casualty well being being placed first?), who have argued with ambulance crews at the scene in order to avoid transporting a casualty as they didn’t have enough fuel due to carrying too many clinicians more than required, who have no actual remit or area of responsibility so just grab anything from Hull to the M25, somehow have managed to fund a new AW169!!! How will that provide any more care to a casualty?

And all flown by the worst paid pilots in the country. A friend of mine was asked by the airframe provider to relocate his family to near Wyton, take a pay cut to £33k gross, for a position initially as technical crewmember in the left seat of an MD902 so he couldn’t even log any hours. Simply mind blowing.

[haihio]

The 169 is a beautiful looking helicopter!

[SFIM]

No matter how bad terms and conditions get, there is always someone who makes apologies for it and makes it sound like those involved should consider themselves lucky,

[DeltaNg]

No matter how bad terms and conditions get, there is always someone who makes apologies for it and makes it sound like those involved should consider themselves lucky,

Basically there is a shortage of ATPL rated pilots in the HEMS game so the P2's can't log anything. The system of acquiring meaningful hours for the inexperienced has broken.

[172510]

I don't understand why you would need an ATPL rated pilot for the P2 to log.
According to EASA regulation
Either the aircraft is a multi pilot aircraft and then P1 must be ATPL rated and P2 must log,
or the aircraft is a single pilot aircraft and then
-either the operation manual requires the aircraft to be operated by a crew and then both pilot must be CPL rated and both must log,
-or the operation manual only requires one pilot and then only that pilot will log as there is no P2.

[Aucky]

I don't understand why you would need an ATPL rated pilot for the P2 to log.
According to EASA regulation
Either the aircraft is a multi pilot aircraft and then P1 must be ATPL rated and P2 must log,
or the aircraft is a single pilot aircraft and then
-either the operation manual requires the aircraft to be operated by a crew and then both pilot must be CPL rated and both must log,
-or the operation manual only requires one pilot and then only that pilot will log as there is no P2.

FCL.010 definitions
Multi-pilot helicopter’ means a helicopter which is required to be operated with a co-pilot as specified in the flight manual or by the air operator certificate or equivalent document.

If the P2 is to log any hours then the helicopter must be a multi-pilot helicopter. A single-pilot certified helicopter can be operated multi-pilot on an AOC and therefore becomes a multi-pilot helicopter (with MP type rating and MCC requirements etc) - the AW169, AW139, S76 etc are all single-pilot certified helicopters operated as multi-pilot helicopters with MP type ratings offshore due to SPA.HOFO and OM requirements for the second pilot.

You can’t have it both ways. It’s either single-pilot and therefore P2 is not there as a pilot, or it’s multi-pilot and if operated for CAT the commander needs an ATPL.

[SFIM]

Basically there is a shortage of ATPL rated pilots in the HEMS game so the P2's can't log anything. The system of acquiring meaningful hours for the inexperienced has broken.

as an ATPL of many years and hours in 5 figures, about 2 years ago when I looked at the pre-requisites to join I didn’t meet the criteria to join as a captain due to a lack of NVG hours, and the application i did put in didn’t even merit a reply it turned out, so no wonder there is a shortage of ATPL rated pilots if this is a common experience.

Anyway it doesn’t matter now as I have something else, but the pay and retention in this sector does seem to be a big problem, and I wonder how long it will be before people are paid properly.

[Hedski]

What is mind blowing? A technical crew member doesn’t need to be a pilot or have any aviation qualification. In fact most aren’t and don’t. Yet they get paid noticeably more than most of the paramedics. It’s a cushty job for retired bobbies and retired pilots who still enjoy working around helicopters. If he wants hours and money he should get a job as an offshore pilot.



All TCM’s at Childrens, KentSurreySussex, LincsNotts, MAGPAS, EssexHerts and I’m sure others who fly 169 provided by Specialist are pilots and required to have CPL/IR plus therefore ATPL theory plus valid medical. So not a number for retired bobbies or pilots. It’s a full role charged no doubt to the HEMS charities as such given they all tout being 2 crew for NVG night ops. Now tell me anyone with those qualifications should take a pay cut to that level? Although the extant CP at the time of the offer did in his condescending phone call tell my friend to be grateful for even being considered, before quickly vacating the position and returning to HongKong himself. The fact that my friend was a highly experience SF/SAR NVGI CRMI crewman instructor of 20 years should also have adjusted the position but that’s the likes of Specialist for you. Needless to say he now works offshore earning more than a HEMS captain.

Given the exodus from both Specialist and Babcock onshore will either side wake up? Both are currently in pay negotiations but from what I hear it’s still a brick wall despite even Babcock Scandinavian air ambulance paying double U.K. rates with infinitely better rosters. And don’t dare tell me the U.K. HEMS charities can’t afford it!!! I have banged on about it before but Wilts AOC and centre of excellence, London second airframe follies? MAGPAS really needing a 169?

Maybe just maybe there’s a journalist gathering the info as we speak.....

[helihub]

somehow have managed to fund a new AW169


Maybe just maybe there’s a journalist gathering the info as we speak.....

Good journalists in this field will already know all this. Plus they will have looked at the latest MAGPAS accounts (https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-live.ch.gov.uk/docs/h0_W5dfjydLmBGmzVhj-82RtTj8fuolRhgQ4bcGQWms/application-pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Content-Sha256=UNSIGNED-PAYLOAD&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAWRGBDBV3ELMKP33H%2F20190428%2Feu-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20190428T190737Z&X-Amz-Expires=60&X-Amz-Security-Token=AgoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEGIaCWV1LXdlc3QtMiJIMEYCIQDGuZ7WuEK4gF E6Mc4z%2Fu0Dw4ldWcd0Am%2F%2BzGHsC%2BesNgIhALOuMZE7cOTg2buolF SGBIPNLnfMxoALqa7EnMfjGB8EKtoDCEsQARoMNDQ5MjI5MDMyODIyIgx53e PqYFE5nqWuTMcqtwOd98BnNKOLVFQfM4QYY3aU0x8w5NqddzVkroXra2jtpG K9o%2BOoaOueeAPzJkgkY140OaY7VL1r%2BY7bKRNh5xAESffRpTnhGfmCXw L2%2Fk2%2BI4H8HNDurxojG5Sk0jP8Ffx3sQWgQfPkFp0THfHs1q1ILOA0TL ymVcNG8l7fmx4GTHxsUuJFTpa3uzdhFAu7ApNY4j0FrkWEebPgnG6YnLI1XG nRgQ8tQJxtJsy%2FLPvzWCqHoGakdGQff02rdYuOo0BSNlR6nu2wCan6OSLF %2FA9ad6ov0P5CQ6vtiZGQl2jvtQLqb5%2Bvp6BhsVQbre4pLQxORsumenyl IVJAhotgYSBSL7Q7J8NoFX5blNlueJSm6TlbBM82F3ORobhw9rBohndTtWpN NIF8rfYAB5AFBhpc8Tet2xab8xDMua3Gfj7AHOZj9dd9xfeuZHpINWcR2yg9 cw9daNohiuD1Q3HQai2exdxtoIuy8Nz%2BwF0gA83e1ClrYY655epvSW8uxK SV7ly%2F0RSlrt80FxUkXRgGZ26TiBSwY8tBVI3E%2FAoR6mPBMTJM5FPZxL N5jiQympsPN9zy1NQRPNanMLjXl%2BYFOrMBtAnLjLP%2Ftky9a4ti2bKgAf OoZYvlFWSyWBAhp2%2FxL9kAQQubjJfR%2FCjNex5PDGWqZcnl40hqnX%2Bo CR0e6nngmARFUx%2Fg2%2FX8jDt4LtW2z1bTOjyown%2BisHX3SvxQ91xE0v j8sEW2IMNUSnDK3Xl8hotaFWf5uD%2Fn6K9TAFlxfmQchJ5uh609oHywmvlw XbCZxXJJAd5Nmaqy1uMIhQEzHb3%2BGDzHD0zep5WdOgJw7Du7xtQ%3D&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=f6ea7afd88e22d0c5764a40edb763abbacaa6f874df84aea76 4367563f796da3), thinking that they can't even afford to run an MD902, let alone an AW169

The latest numbers are for 18 months (to Jun18) compared to 12 (to Dec16). The income figure includes a LIBOR grant of £1M which is restricted for use to build an airbase (note 16, and the Chancellor's Autumn Statement (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/autumn-statement-2016-libor-commitments/autumn-statement-2016-libor-commitments)), but £981,154 (somehow??) gets moved from Restricted to Unrestricted Funds. Without that £1M, the Income & Expenditure Account would show a net loss of -£150K for 18 months, compared to a net loss of -£140K for the previous 12 months.

Looking at the Balance Sheet, the net assets show £866K. Without the LIBOR money that would be -£134K.

To fund the newly-arrived AW169, one can only assume that MAGPAS have received an extraordinary amount of non-restricted donations since 30th June 2018, in which case they are to be applauded. I look forward to the accounts for the year to 30th June 2019 to confirm this.

[gulliBell]

What does the mushroom top on the AW169 main rotor head do? I take it it's something more than cosmetic, part of a vibration damping system?

[Hot_LZ]

The beanie hat on top of the Rotor is normally where they stash some test equipment during the prototype phase. Come production some manufacturers also claim that it reduces drag and enhances lift.

LZ

[JulieAndrews]

Re the LIBOR Grants mentioned on this thread, did all the UK air ambulance charities receive the government grants of £1m?
I couldn't see anything in my local GNAA accounts on the charities commission website?

There does appear to be a very High wage bill for the management and office staff at the local GNAA charity - over £1.96m for one year! as shown in the various pdf account charts.
ALL Charities should post a List of WHO is paid over £50k on their own websites, so the public know who is taking out of the charity pot.
http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends04/0001092204_AC_20180331_E_C.pdf

Over the years.
Financial history (http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/FinancialHistory.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=1092204&SubsidiaryNumber=0)

Website Beta service for pdf's.
https://beta.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-details?regid=1092204&subid=0

that is a sh1t-loaf of expenditure for some old As365s - but is anybody surprised considering Operator ?

[RVDT]

The beanie hat on top of the Rotor is normally where they stash some test equipment during the prototype phase. Come production some manufacturers also claim that it reduces drag and enhances lift.

Actually the "beanie" on most types smooth's out the wake from the rotorhead which can cause aerodynamic vibrations. And sometimes it is just vanity!!

[lead and lag]

Maybe they should invest in slower, less reliable H145’s instead?

[Hedski]

Or invest in the right crew with the right background, qualifications, skillset and motivation for such a demanding role such as Swiss, Scandinavian, Belgian and Dutch operators do. French I can’t speak for.

[lead and lag]

Why? Is there something wrong with the existing crew that you know of?

[Hedski]

Underpaid so keep leaving...

[Hedski]

So why was a current IFR CPL asked to take such a paycut by Specialist and move his family to near Wyton if so? It now makes even less sense but it was the case. Hence the assertion by me that yes Magpas TCM’s would be Pilots if provided by Specialist which would be the case if they were offering him a job there. Or are they completely on an absolute wind up...

[onehunglow]

can confirm one of the MAGPAS TCMs is an ex HEMS pilot. He is not retired, however!

[Phoinix]

The beanie hat on top of the Rotor is normally where they stash some test equipment during the prototype phase. Come production some manufacturers also claim that it reduces drag and enhances lift.

LZ

On 169 it does absolutely nothing. We are getting ours without, for mass saving.