Melbourne Tullamarine variable transition level

[Dschubba]

Can anyone enlighten me as to why there is a variable transition level on only some Melbourne plates and not others.

Its Not on 21-1 ILS Z 16, but is on 21-2 ILS Y 16 shown as note (1)

?
thanks

[Stationair8]

Appeared on a few other aerodromes over the last few amendments.

[machtuk]

Yeah saw that on both AD 23ILS plates. As we know a very low QNH changes what level/s can be maintained but don't see the link when at the Alt's App's start?

[neville_nobody]

Probably someone in CASA trying to score points by getting them to publish the bleeding obvious on the charts. It is referencing the AIP and the change in transition level with the QNH. The issue is a moot point, as how many times a year will you see a QNH sub 980, which is what you would need for a FL120 Transition Level.

[airwolf117]

Probably someone in CASA trying to score points by getting them to publish the bleeding obvious on the charts. It is referencing the AIP and the change in transition level with the QNH. The issue is a moot point, as how many times a year will you see a QNH sub 980, which is what you would need for a FL120 Transition Level.

You say that, but then a few years ago ATRs (I think it was) got grounded because they didn't have performace charts for +40 degree temps. While it may be rare, putting this little bit of info on a chart saves some embarrassment when it does happen.

[Capn Bloggs]

Probably someone in CASA trying to score points by getting them to publish the bleeding obvious on the charts.
I can't find it on the DAP charts so perhaps it is not CASA being anal but Jeppesen... Pull ya head in Nev! :ok:

Maybe Leddie could advise if the standard of yank driver is now so low that they need to be reminded that some FLs are not available when your ears are popping due to low pressure.

I wonder if ATC would even allocate a FL if it were not available due low QNH?

[ernestkgann]

Geez mate it worries me greatly that you believe the standard here is better then the US. No doubt your evidence is based on extensive flying there and overseas.

[LeadSled]

Maybe Leddie could advise if the standard of yank driver is now so low that they need to be reminded that some FLs are not available when your ears are popping due to low pressure.


Bloggsie,
What are you smoking now?? More of that No.! Good A__T??
The US transition altitude/level is 18,000/FL180 with no transition layer.
No low QNH problem there!!
Needless to say, Australia has to be unique, resulting in building in a few gotcha problems that can be "Examined", having a "No Problems" system just wouldn't do.
Tootle pip!!

PS: If US standards are so low, how come they regularly produce the best air safety outcome statistics?? In weather and geographical situations just a tad more demanding than anything in AU.

[krismiler]

Hong Kong uses variable levels but as it is prone to cyclones, a QNH below 980 is a real possibility. India has some very low transition altitudes, 4000’ in some places.

[Capn Bloggs]

The US transition altitude/level is 18,000/FL180 with no transition layer.
So QNH 1000, 18,000 would be above FL180, would it not?

Yank ATC: "Traffic is Leddie 456 at 18,000ft!"

Bloggs 123, cruising at FL180: "Is he above me or below me?? I'm using See and Avoid but I don't know which way to look, up or down!!"

(I hope I've got that right... :confused:)

If US standards are so low, how come they regularly produce the best air safety outcome statistics??
Plenty of jets pranged there, none here...

[Capt Fathom]

So QNH 1000, 18,000 would be above FL180, would it not?

If the QNH is less than 29.92, you would not be assigned FL180.

[LeadSled]

So QNH 1000, 18,000 would be above FL180, would it not?

Yank ATC: "Traffic is Leddie 456 at 18,000ft!"

Bloggs 123, cruising at FL180: "Is he above me or below me?? I'm using See and Avoid but I don't know which way to look, up or down!!"

(I hope I've got that right... :confused:)


Plenty of jets pranged there, none here...

Bloggsie,
Such in-depth, concise and relevant analysis, NOT.

Quite simply, with between 5 and 10,000 IFR aircraft airborne over the "Lower 48" at any one time, and 50,000+ active flight plans in the system in any 24 hour period, 18,000/FL180 simply has been demonstrated to not be a risk factor ---- that there are alternatives to the Australian anal retentive approach to aviation is a point lost on far too many Australian participants in aviation ---- a group in which, clearly, I believe you belong.
Have you ever actually operated in US airspace?

Needless to say, I am equally impressed by your in-depth knowledge of aviation safety statistics. Could I suggest you expand your knowledge of the subject ---- firstly acquaint yourself with ICAO definitions of accidents and incidents (not Australian home -grown definitions) then get into the various databases, starting with NTSB, Boeing, EASA, Nial (AOPA US) and so on. There is no shortage of international comparisons.

If you really try, you can learn something new (and real) every day, and it might help to dispel a certain complacency ---- one of the major threats to air safety.

One thing you might learn is Australian aviation is so small, it is little more than a rounding error, another is how mediocre our real record actually is.

Tootle pip!!

[Capn Bloggs]

If the QNH is less than 29.92, you would not be assigned FL180.
Thank you Fathom. So in effect, the yanks have the same setup as us: unusable FLs with low QNHs. Back to you, Leaddie.

firstly acquaint yourself with ICAO definitions of accidents and incidents (not Australian home -grown definitions)
Use whatever definitions you like, leddie, bent metal is bent metal.

[Lead Balloon]

US AIP ENR 1.7: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aip_html/part2_enr_section_1.7.html)

[Capn Bloggs]

Who's side are you on?! :eek::}

[Lead Balloon]

Strange as it may seem, I’m on the side of a thing called “truth”.

[Plazbot]

wonder if ATC would even allocate a FL if it were not available due low QNH? nope. thread over.

[ernestkgann]

Great post Mr Balloon. CA Bloggs is symptomatic of the Galapagos I’m afraid. A system at the end of world that has evolved in such a way that those who inhabit it believe what they think or do are world standard when in fact they are swimming lizards. I shake my head.

[Capn Bloggs]

A system at the end of world that has evolved in such a way that those who inhabit it believe what they think or do are world standard when in fact they are swimming lizards. I shake my head.
Balloon's link shows me that the yanks have exactly the same Galapagos "levels not available when QNH is yada yada yada" system that we have.

[LeadSled]

Balloon's link shows me that the yanks have exactly the same Galapagos "levels not available when QNH is yada yada yada" system that we have.
Bloggsie,
Please read it again, they are NOT the same, the US has no transition layer.
As for the "other details" from the US AIP, (or the AIM) take a closer look at the altimeter settings.
Tootle pip!!

[AerocatS2A]

Bloggsie,
Please read it again, they are NOT the same, the US has no transition layer.
As for the "other details" from the US AIP, (or the AIM) take a closer look at the altimeter settings.
Tootle pip!!
Sure it does, they just don’t call it that. A minimum cruising FL based on QNH is effectively establishing a transition layer.

[Transition Layer]

Did someone say my name? :}

[AerocatS2A]

Company mail suggests Jeppesen have decided to revert to publishing FL110 as the transition level.