Question re flight numbers

[Ancient Mariner]

I hope this is the right forum to try, so here goes.
Bored senseless and with time to spare, I decided to make a list of airlines that I've traveled with since my first flight on an SAS Caravelle back in '69.
Three flights have me stumped:
ZR122, destination Aalborg, August 26
QI1223, destination Newcastle, November 5
SN869, destination Bilbao, August 6.
Unfortunately no year on the boarding card.
Anyone?
Per

[Airbanda]

SN = Sabena?
QI = Cimber Air?

[Robert-Ryan]

Slight digression but what decides whether an airport uses an airlines IATA or ICAO code on its boards, seems to be completely random?

[VentureGo]

I hope this is the right forum to try, so here goes.
Bored senseless and with time to spare, I decided to make a list of airlines that I've traveled with since my first flight on an SAS Caravelle back in '69.
Three flights have me stumped:
ZR122, destination Aalborg, August 26
QI1223, destination Newcastle, November 5
SN869, destination Bilbao, August 6.
Unfortunately no year on the boarding card.
Anyone?
Per

ZR - was Muk Air which operated from 1979 until 2001. operated ATR42 aircraft

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_airlines_of_Denmark

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/MUK-Air-%28Denmark%29

https://www.jetphotos.com/airline/Muk%20Air

Airbanda correct re. Sabena (SN) and Cimber Air (QI)

[TartinTon]

Slight digression but what decides whether an airport uses an airlines IATA or ICAO code on its boards, seems to be completely random?

Unusual for an airport to use ICAO codes on it's boards as all airline issued tickets use IATA codes only

[Ancient Mariner]

Thanks guys, much appreciated, I can now complete my list on Excel.
By the way, the Muk Air flight was on one of those flying matchboxes, a Short of sorts.
Per

[DaveReidUK]

Unusual for an airport to use ICAO codes on it's boards as all airline issued tickets use IATA codes only

With some notable exceptions:


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/624x351/_77469625_454966802_bfab1473d4f8e3fdad0e989146e9730c3610e6c0 .jpg

[VentureGo]

I'm guessing to help passengers, more easily associate their airline in examples such as EZY rather than U2, TOM instead of BY (BY being for Britannia which anyone under 40 may not link - TUI is used by TUI Germany as their ICAO code so can't be used for TUI UK

[Hotel Tango]

Can't narrow it down because Muk Air operated both the Shorts 330 and 360.

[c52]

And why do some airlines have the return flight no as one higher than the outward, and some one lower?

e.g.
EK9 DXB-LGW
EK10 LGW-DXB (return of same aircraft)

SQ52 SIN-MAN
SQ51 MAN-SIN

[NorthEasterner]

Regarding IATA/ICAO codes (depending on airport) it is the airline's preference as to whether they wish to have IATA or ICAO codes on FIDS. The airline will usually want the code to reflect what is shown on the boarding pass issued. So for example, EasyJet and TUI UK boarding passes have their ICAO prefix, it then makes sense for the airport to display ICAO prefix for said airlines.

I've noticed at some Aena airports particularly AGP, only ICAO codes are shown on the FIDS. However this could've course changed since 2 years ago.

[sinbad73]

And why do some airlines have the return flight no as one higher than the outward, and some one lower?

e.g.
EK9 DXB-LGW
EK10 LGW-DXB (return of same aircraft)

SQ52 SIN-MAN
SQ51 MAN-SIN

Not sure of the reason but LH used to and possibly still have even numbered flights from Germany and odd numbered flights to Germany. Can't remember what happened on domestic routes though.

[Ancient Mariner]

Can't narrow it down because Muk Air operated both the Shorts 330 and 360.
So I just write Shorts 300 Series then. ;)
So far I have listed 68 different airlines, I know there's more from China early 90'ies, but the boarding cards only says CAAC, not the name of the actual airline, and I'll be damned if I remember. Sometimes they gave a 4-digit flight number, other times not at all.
I've also listed 43 different types of aircrafts, I have not considered the different sub models, hence a B737, or an A340 is only listed once.
Must dig for more boarding cards in my, eh, archives.
I am turning into a sad old git. :sad:
Per

[Una Due Tfc]

Different airlines have different policies as regards flight numbers. As said some use even outbound, odd inbound (or vice versa). Some do even for northbound and westbound, odd for eastbound and southbound, or any variation of that. All depends. Many airlines use alpha numeric callsigns with ATC so the flight number on your ticket is totally different from the aircraft callsign. E.G. Aer Lingus DUB-LAX is EI145 on the ticket, EIN1AK on the airwaves.

There's a few nerdy ones out there. The BA LHR-SEA flight is BAW5EA (5 looking like an "S"), so the flight ident looks like it's spelling SEA on the radar screen.

Yes I'm sad enough to notice these things when the aircraft pop up on my screen.

[DaveReidUK]

Different airlines have different policies as regards flight numbers. As said some use even outbound, odd inbound (or vice versa).

Or, if you're BA, you use odd flight numbers out of LHR and even flight numbers inbound for longhaul routes, and the opposite convention for shorthaul destinations.

Go figure. :O

[Una Due Tfc]

Or, if you're BA, you use odd flight numbers out of LHR and even flight numbers inbound for longhaul routes, and the opposite convention for shorthaul destinations.

Go figure. :O

Perhaps BOAC did it one way, and BEA the other? Both before my time I’m afraid.

[El Bunto]

There's a few nerdy ones out there. The BA LHR-SEA flight is BAW5EA (5 looking like an "S"), so the flight ident looks like it's spelling SEA on the radar screen.


Which wouldn't mean anything to ATC since the flightplan says KSEA.

I don't really know why IATA codes are still used for anything these days, what with 'controlled duplicates' and others that bear no resemblance to the airline or airport name. Just scrap them.

[cumbrianboy]

Aer Lingus use even numbers for east bound flights and odd for west bound.

The difference between the flight number and the ATC Callsign is to stop confusion. For example, BA may have flight BA601 and Easyjet may have flight EZY601. They may also both in the air at the same time, so if they both use the flight number as a call sign then the chance of confusion on the radio is super high and poses a safety risk, so they change it. For example (and these are made up) the BA becomes speedbird 6AB and the Easyjet 6RT.

[DaveReidUK]

The difference between the flight number and the ATC Callsign is to stop confusion. For example, BA may have flight BA601 and Easyjet may have flight EZY601. They may also both in the air at the same time, so if they both use the flight number as a call sign then the chance of confusion on the radio is super high and poses a safety risk, so they change it. For example (and these are made up) the BA becomes speedbird 6AB and the Easyjet 6RT.

Call-sign Confusion (https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Call-sign_Confusion)

[DaveReidUK]

Perhaps BOAC did it one way, and BEA the other? Both before my time I’m afraid.


That was indeed the case, as I recall.

It's interesting to see that the legacy survives, 45 years after the two airlines were supposedly merged.

[Una Due Tfc]

Which wouldn't mean anything to ATC since the flightplan says KSEA

Well it does mean something to most of us in ATC as we do know the IATA codes, well most of them anyway, just from familiarity really as there's no requirement for us to know them. Also the airfield often has a VOR with the same 3 letter code, e.g. DUB (although that VOR isn't actually on the airfield).

The IATA and ICAO codes tend to be the same for North America anyway, CYUL, CYYZ, CYVR = YUL, YYZ, YVR. KJFK, KMIA, KLAX = JFK, MIA, LAX.

[DaveReidUK]

I don't really know why IATA codes are still used for anything these days, what with 'controlled duplicates' and others that bear no resemblance to the airline or airport name. Just scrap them.

As far as airport codes are concerned, both the airlines and organisations like OAG and the GDSs have massive investments in IT systems for scheduling, reservations, timetabling, etc, all based on 3-letter IATA route designators. So those aren't about to disappear any time soon.

Strangely, those same systems have been able to copy with ICAO airline codes for many years, so continued use of 2-letter IATA airline codes is more of a mystery.

As for obscure airport codes, there are plenty of those still in use whose origins are lost in the mists of time: KORD, KMCO. KMSY, etc ...

[Sultan Ismail]

KORD Chicago O'Hare derives from the original airfield in "Orchard Place"

KMCO Orlando International Airport derives from the Cold War McCoy Air Force Base

[DaveReidUK]

KORD Chicago O'Hare derives from the original airfield in "Orchard Place"

KMCO Orlando International Airport derives from the Cold War McCoy Air Force Base

Yes, and KMSY derives from Moissant Field

When I said "lost in the mists of time", I didn't mean literally. :O