Norwegian

[tonyb]

With oil at a 2019 high this morning and the Max grounding how much longer can Norwegian continue?

[V12]

That's not a helpful new thread, is it?

[compton3bravo]

That's as maybe, but it is relevant.

[racedo]

https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/599894-norwegian-2-a-10.html#post10054363

Feels like someone with an agenda.

[EIFFS]

Perversely it may help insofar that they have already booked a loss based on hedge positions that were higher than they year end oil price, I think they are fairly well hedged for at least the first part of this year, but overall it won’t be helpful.

Norwegian have wet leased in capacity to cover some of the shortage of aircraft due to the max grounding, they have also delayed some airframe disposals and changed certain flight frequencies, the announcement of various base closures has already resulted in dozens of pilots leaving with many more working their notice, so the headcount is well down already.

With it looking like mid late summer before the MAX is back it will certainly make next winter a huge challenge, all the more so given the need to crew and train for S20 and just where do they think they’ll get the pilots from?

[crewmeal]

Things can't be that bad if they're still expanding:

Norwegian expansion (https://onemileatatime.com/norwegian-buenos-aires-asia/)

[speedrestriction]

Things can't be that bad if they're still expanding:


There is no short term correlation between growth and success. They are in a bit of a hole with their operation and have yet to deliver anything like a consistent operational profit.

Stock market don’t seem to have much confidence that there is any likelihood of improvement in the near future.

[speedrestriction]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1136x543/34afe640_47fd_4d34_b3d9_703f08f10de4_a41b4b69adc18478ff7ab53 68971ed2712c081bf.jpeg

[eu01]

Things can't be that bad if they're still expanding:
Norwegian expansion (https://onemileatatime.com/norwegian-buenos-aires-asia/)
News from February' 2018, well...

Btw., Shouldn't the moderator close one of the threads and/or merge them?

[Hotel Tango]

Things can't be that bad if they're still expanding:

Expansion can lead to more costs, more debts and trouble waiting just around the corner. I have seen quite a few expanding airlines crash spectacularly some months later!

[crewmeal]

Expansion can lead to more costs, more debts and trouble waiting just around the corner.

Exactly they've already cut back flights from EDI and now reducing flights from Ireland. I would have thought consolidation should be a priority rather than expansion.

[compton3bravo]

According to a report in today's Independent the airline lost £16.40 on every passenger it flew in the first three months of 2019. The loss for the three months was £130 million with the chairman blaming the loss on Easter falling in April this year compared to March in 2018 with the outlook 'promising' according to the chairman!

[Vokes55]

Every airline in Europe loses money during the first three months of the year

[racedo]

There is no short term correlation between growth and success. They are in a bit of a hole with their operation and have yet to deliver anything like a consistent operational profit.
Stock market don’t seem to have much confidence that there is any likelihood of improvement in the near future.

There is little correlation between Stock Market perfromance and Profitability.

How much does Lyft make in profit ? How much is it worth ?

[davidjohnson6]

Stock markets will buy in to the 'we are a growth company' story for a while, provided revenues and customer numbers really are growing fast.

Eventually investors will be more cynical about this story from management

[speedrestriction]

There is little correlation between Stock Market perfromance and Profitability.

How much does Lyft make in profit ? How much is it worth ?

While stock market investors are not 100% rational, over a long enough time frame they get it reasonably right. The share price trajectory is totally rational, the absolute value of the shares is still debatable.

What is going to change in Norwegian’s short term to allow them to become profitable?

Do they have any specific reasons to expect strong yield growth? (ie failure of competitors or large increase in demand)

If not, is there a reasonable expectation that they are going to dramatically reduce their cost base? Still no?

I am genuinely interested to find out what I am missing here.

The product is very polished and professional, but the inconvenient truth is that it costs the shareholders a stack of money every time one of their aircraft pushes back from the gate.

[Cymmon]

Just announced that the Max debacle has cost them £45 million.... Never good.

[toledoashley]

What you don’t know, is they will be leasing in aircraft again... I hope at RR’s expense.

[inOban]

The share price rose 5% today.

[USERNAME_]

Did the CDG Crew go on strike in the end???
(https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-norwegian-air-france-strike/norwegian-air-cabin-crew-union-calls-for-strike-at-charles-de-gaulle-idUKKCN1RW0JL)

If so, yet another kick in the cojones for Norwegian, surely they realise they're doing more harm than good?

[Logohu]

Well at least SAS are trying their very best to lift profits at Norwegian !!:rolleyes:

https://www.euronews.com/2019/04/25/airline-sas-cancels-flights-as-pilot-strike-deadline-nears

[Smooth Airperator]

Just announced: Rolls Royce have issued a SB affecting the Trent 1000 TEN engines used by all of NUK's 787s. It calls for more regular inspections of the blades, and a requirement to uncouple the engines when they reach 700 cycles (so the two engines on any one aircraft have different cycles). This now has a significant impact to NUK's summer operation with increased downtime of the fleet. As a result, 4 (four) wet leases will be drafted in to cover the summer programme. Employers and unions have been notified (less flying, less income for employees).

[inOban]

But presumably RR will be paying for this?

[RexBanner]

They’ll be paying Norwegian’s creditors at this rate. Reimbursement from Boeing doesn’t help if the company has gone to the wall in the meantime. The money won’t be paid immediately.

[Smooth Airperator]

I could be wrong but I don't think RR have paid out in full for the previous round of engine troubles yet and the initial problems have been ongoing for almost 2 years. Boeing probably expect to compensate through future discounts on new air frames but that clearly isn't going to help the short term.

[racedo]

I am genuinely interested to find out what I am missing here.

The product is very polished and professional, but the inconvenient truth is that it costs the shareholders a stack of money every time one of their aircraft pushes back from the gate.


Major shareholder via various methods is Norwegian state or Financial institutions. The Norwegian rainy day fund is in excess of $1 trillion and no doubt would fund Airline via various methods.

[davidjohnson6]

The Norwegian Govt has been very careful about not treating the oil trust fund as a slush fund to be used when politically expedient - this is quite different to some other (more corrupt) countries.
Prior to the discovery of oil post WW2, Norway was one of the poorest countries in Europe and living memories of this still exist. The general public are aware the hydrocarbons underwater will not last forever and don't wish to waste the money

Wideroe might be worth spending money on if it needed rescuing for PSO purposes but not sure about a bailout for Norwegian when SAS also services the major trunk routes

[Vokes55]

They would almost certainly keep it afloat even if in just a scaled down form that serves the Norwegian regions and trunk routes out of and around Scandinavia.

The money isn’t going to run out at Norwegian (much to the dismay of the majority of people on this forum).

[rog747]

DY/D8/DI, like many other 787 operators, have suffered badly for over 2 years with the RR engine issues, and now the MAX debacle is added in to the mix - Surely one has commiserations for them being so seriously affected financially by these two expensive problems, plus other factors such as fuel costs, and possibly the effects of Brexit Etc.

From a pax PoV they have settled down offering a solid product and a decent alternative here in the UK.
Many of my friends now use them for preference on long haul from LGW to the USA and to Europe.

I myself, am booked in July back from JFK to LGW in Premium a few days after my Cunard liner docks in NYC - the flight was part of the voyage package, and the Premium upgrade was only £180pp. So I hope that they are still around - If not it will be up to Cunard to re book us on BA or VS.
I am mindful now that the DY flight maybe subbed to another carrier due to more issues with the 787 and it's engines.

[TSR2]

rog747

If you don't mind me asking, which Cunard ship will you be on ?

[rog747]

rog747

If you don't mind me asking, which Cunard ship will you be on ?

Hi there - we booked the ''Super T/A'' crossing 14 July
2 weeks on Queen Mary 2 sailing from SOU via LPL, Iceland Newfoundland Halifax and to NYC - cant wait!

The price was amazing and the UG to Premium for the nicely timed day flight back (dep JFK after breakfast at 1130) for £180 was a no-brainer - just hope that DY survives and we get a nice 787 lol
We will be on ships time for 2 weeks, so leaving NYC mid-morning and flying home arriving UK at night means zero jet lag and no red eyes.

[TSR2]

rog747

Sounds like a cracker. Have a good one.

[RexBanner]

They would almost certainly keep it afloat even if in just a scaled down form that serves the Norwegian regions and trunk routes out of and around Scandinavia.

The money isn’t going to run out at Norwegian (much to the dismay of the majority of people on this forum).


Except the money very nearly did run out at the back end of last year, only saved by an emergency rights issue. By the way a rights issue is the last resort when trying to raise finance. It’s the only thing left after nobody else, including the banks, will touch you with a barge pole. According to these latest financial results they have already burnt their way through a sizeable chunk of this money. You’d have to be an ostrich with your head in the sand to not be able to see that there are major problems with the ongoing solvency of this company, however much you like to imply anyone who questions the business model is some sort of “hater”.

[Vokes55]

The money didn’t come anywhere near running out.

Dont worry Rex, we all know Cruz has brainwashed you all into believing Norwegian is the reason for your depleting T&Cs and pathetic pay offer. I assume he promised you all big bonuses if Norwegian ‘went away’ too?

[RexBanner]

Whatever makes you feel better. Attacking BA instead of providing an actual rebuttal of the argument presented here is a bit straw man at best and indicates you’re losing the argument. I don’t think anybody from Norwegian has the right to point fingers at other company’s “depleting” Ts and Cs. Coming from the company that pays £80k to a 787 skipper and has its crews slipping in the Days Inn and Park Inn downroute together with the god awful Copthorne at Gatwick. The fact that they’re doing those things and still can’t turn a profit should give you a clue that there is something seriously wrong with their model.

Norwegian’s customer base is the low hanging fruit. They’ve pinned virtually their entire business model on it. Exactly the same customer base that is the first to suffer and stop travelling in any downturn and the same people that all the legacies have to do to pilfer is to unbundle their product and they can thus match if not beat Norwegian on price and they’re still coining it in from their premium cabins.

This is the fundamental problem with the model. It’s clear for anyone to see who has taken their head out of the sand. Are you seriously trying to tell me that a rights issue indicates a healthy company?

[intortola]

Whatever makes you feel better. Attacking BA instead of providing an actual rebuttal of the argument presented here is a bit straw man at best and indicates you’re losing the argument. I don’t think anybody from Norwegian has the right to point fingers at other company’s “depleting” Ts and Cs. Coming from the company that pays £80k to a 787 skipper and has its crews slipping in the Days Inn and Park Inn downroute together with the god awful Copthorne at Gatwick. The fact that they’re doing those things and still can’t turn a profit should give you a clue that there is something seriously wrong with their model.

Norwegian’s customer base is the low hanging fruit. They’ve pinned virtually their entire business model on it. Exactly the same customer base that is the first to suffer and stop travelling in any downturn and the same people that all the legacies have to do to pilfer is to unbundle their product and they can thus match if not beat Norwegian on price and they’re still coining it in from their premium cabins.

This is the fundamental problem with the model. It’s clear for anyone to see who has taken their head out of the sand. Are you seriously trying to tell me that a rights issue indicates a healthy company?


I take exception to this, living in the NE Caribbean, for years myself and many others used BA Club World several times a year from Antigua back to UK. Now, a vast majority of us travel back via Florida or New York to use Norwegians PE cabin. The staff onboard are so much friendlier than BA, despite the fact that you dont get a fully lie flat bed the cost saving is significant. Norwegian have a far superior product to BA these days.

[Dct_Mopas]

Intertola,

Thats just it, you’ve highlighted the problem with Norwegian. A far superior product, at a significantly cheaper price, but no premium class. A reason why IAG make a profit and Norwegian have total debt greater than the market valuation of some of the biggest European airlines.

[racedo]

Norwegian’s customer base is the low hanging fruit. They’ve pinned virtually their entire business model on it. Exactly the same customer base that is the first to suffer and stop travelling in any downturn and the same people that all the legacies have to do to pilfer is to unbundle their product and they can thus match if not beat Norwegian on price and they’re still coining it in from their premium cabins.
The low hanging fruit you mention is young people who haven't yet the wealth of the older generation.

Sitting waiting to pick up a friend at Gatwick today i met 2 people travelling to Chicago with Norwegian, both late 20's and neither have ever flown BA with no plans to. 25 years ago the opposite would be the case as would be hard pushed to find people then who hadn't flown BA.

Now people will fly Norwegian / Easyjet / Ryanair because of cost but will stick with it because they are brands they know and have delivered consistently.

In 20 years time the older BA fliers will be dead or stopped flying, the current users of Norwegian (assume still around) will still be flying and have added another generation used to flying Norwegian / Easy / Ryanair. The recession it was people with money who stopped flying and couldn't justify X thousand on a seat.

[racedo]

Intertola,

Thats just it, you’ve highlighted the problem with Norwegian. A far superior product, at a significantly cheaper price, but no premium class. A reason why IAG make a profit and Norwegian have total debt greater than the market valuation of some of the biggest European airlines.

Norwegian have now changed their strategy of going for growth to profitability. Fully expect them to achieve it.

[Dct_Mopas]

Norwegian have now changed their strategy of going for growth to profitability. Fully expect them to achieve it.

Well that’s going to be a challenge. Further 787 issues, Max groundings, cash being raised via rights issues (not normal), rising oil prices, lower demand. This is all at the end of the recent airline boom times, Norwegian need to make profit now. The competition have been making profit, raising cash, paying off debt for years now.

[eu01]

In addition, there is the big chunk of psychology involved here. Many people do realize that things are not quite well right now for DY and they may have some doubts while planning. Me too, I could have flown with them a couple of times this year, but finally have chosen another carrier. Still have an option to make a group reservation with them later this year, but... try to accommodate and reroute some 25 people if things go wrong and cover the costs involved... too stressful to consider. Obviously, that does not help the carrier either.

[RexBanner]

I take exception to this, living in the NE Caribbean, for years myself and many others used BA Club World several times a year from Antigua back to UK. Now, a vast majority of us travel back via Florida or New York to use Norwegians PE cabin. The staff onboard are so much friendlier than BA, despite the fact that you dont get a fully lie flat bed the cost saving is significant. Norwegian have a far superior product to BA these days.

Nobody doubts that Norwegian, when it works, is a great product. The problem is it’s not being sold at the right price. Of course passengers are going to love that but it’s not a state of affairs that can carry on for much longer. They may be described as a thorn in BA’s side but in reality they’re more like a splinter. After all the majority of Norwegian punters are people who couldn’t previously afford to fly long haul, BA were hardly reliant on them to start with. IAG made £2Billion of profit this year (and have been making ever increasing profits ever since Norwegian dipped their toe in the long haul waters) whereas Norwegian are heavily debt laden with a business model that is less than resilient.

Racedo to be profitable they're going to have to raise fares. Especially as they are now focusing on primary airports from the London market. Catch 22 situation as by doing that they’ll be eroding much of their original customer base and going up against competitors who have much greater economies of scale, better business product and frequencies.

It’s great to root for the little guy but there are some harsh realities at work here. I’m not staunch lover of BA, they pay my mortgage and that’s about it. I’m fully confident that they’ll be able to carry on doing that successfully for the rest of my career at least with or without the competition from Norwegian.

[racedo]

Well that’s going to be a challenge. Further 787 issues, Max groundings, cash being raised via rights issues (not normal), rising oil prices, lower demand. This is all at the end of the recent airline boom times, Norwegian need to make profit now. The competition have been making profit, raising cash, paying off debt for years now.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2009/jul/12/british-airways-ba-rights-issue

787 and Max issues you will stop paying loans for aircraft until they sorted plus someone else will be picking up the costs and it will be coming all in cash or cash equivalent. Boeing jets were all puchased using US EXIM, basically US taxpayer funded export agency. What will they do ? Reposess aircraft that can't fly and sell to whom ?

The $45 million initial hit will be way more than because the quoted costs are going to get added to massively because of non delivery etc.

One of the reasons Sir Beardy was always first in for new aircraft, never going to be delivered on time and substantial damages paid for non delivery and you then sell your delivery slot.

They couldn't have come at a better time because it buys Norwegian another year with either a huge injection of damages cash from Boeing and RR or loans written off.

[EI-BUD]

The low hanging fruit you mention is young people who haven't yet the wealth of the older generation.

Sitting waiting to pick up a friend at Gatwick today i met 2 people travelling to Chicago with Norwegian, both late 20's and neither have ever flown BA with no plans to. 25 years ago the opposite would be the case as would be hard pushed to find people then who hadn't flown BA.

Now people will fly Norwegian / Easyjet / Ryanair because of cost but will stick with it because they are brands they know and have delivered consistently.

In 20 years time the older BA fliers will be dead or stopped flying, the current users of Norwegian (assume still around) will still be flying and have added another generation used to flying Norwegian / Easy / Ryanair. The recession it was people with money who stopped flying and couldn't justify X thousand on a seat.

I agree with many things that you say Racedo, but I disagree strongly in relation to the last point. BA is a well admired brand and have a huge following. I agree that there are enormous swathes of people wanting to fly Norwegian, but it all about price.

BA can command a strong premium in price, whether from corporates who want the scale of network, with aligned frequent flier programmes, or the higher yielding leisure traveller, or indeed the flier who flies on a BA holiday, there is a huge market for BA.

Norwegian is a great airline, and you'd have to admire the scale they have in such a short time. However, they don't have enough of the higher yielding passengers that they need 'all year round', and this is their challenge, I'd say one of their biggest. The winter months are particularly difficult, to a much greater degree than their Long Haul peers. It is also difficult to achieve significant cost advantage in long haul, where you are not getting greater utilisation than your competitors, where you are using primary airports, and where you do not have a well developed corporate customer base.

I wish them well, but I am still struggling to see how their model is sustainable.




​​​​

[nguba]

Norwegian is wet leasing wide body aircraft at Gatwick from four different airlines this week:

The Points Guy UK (https://thepointsguy.co.uk/news/norwegian-using-wet-leased-aircraft-london-us-routes/)

[toledoashley]

nguba - The leases are for the whole summer to cover 787 maintanance.

[rog747]

UGH Just seen that my JFK-LGW 30 JUL 11.25am is now on an Evelop A330 - trying to make sure I am not downgraded from Premium

[rog747]

Norwegian in last week’s schedule update filed leased aircraft operation for Trans-Atlantic service to/from London Gatwick, gradually commencing from the week of 29APR19. Planned leased aircraft operation for Norwegian Air UK (DI) as follows.

Evelop Airlines A330-300 to be used on the early flight/day flight back
London Gatwick – New York JFK eff 03MAY19 6 weekly (DI7013/7014)

Hi-Fly A340-300
London Gatwick – Orlando eff 29APR19 7 weekly

Privilege Style 777-200
London Gatwick – Miami eff 29APR19 6 weekly

Wamos Air A330-200
London Gatwick – Chicago eff 01MAY19 3 weekly
London Gatwick – Denver eff 30APR19 3 weekly

Separately, the airline last week extended Evelop A330-300 service for Norwegian Air International (D8) on following route:
Dublin – Newburgh/Stewart Evelop A330-300 service extended till 14SEP19, instead of 31JUL19

https://thepointsguy.co.uk/news/norwegian-using-wet-leased-aircraft-london-us-routes/

[rog747]

Norwegian is wet leasing wide body aircraft at Gatwick from four different airlines this week:

The Points Guy UK (https://thepointsguy.co.uk/news/norwegian-using-wet-leased-aircraft-london-us-routes/)

Just seen that Evelop has just taken or about to take delivery of an ex SQ A330-300 with 30C/255Y seats - this will be at LGW all summer for the early morning JFK.

[nguba]

An interesting article on Head for Points about Norwegian cabin crew being required to take leave due to 787 groundings:

Head for Points (https://www.headforpoints.com/2019/05/07/what-norwegian-is-doing-to-its-787-cabin-crew/)

[Vokes55]

What’s so interesting about it? Cabin crew in many UK airlines take 4-5 months of unpaid leave every Winter. Ryanair have forced cabin crew to take unpaid leave for as long as I can remember. Pilots in some airlines are being asked to take unpaid leave with the Max groundings.

Nothing interesting about it. I don’t believe anybody is being forced into anything, they’re just trying to temporarily reduce the work force.

[SealinkBF]

What’s so interesting about it? Cabin crew in many UK airlines take 4-5 months of unpaid leave every Winter. Ryanair have forced cabin crew to take unpaid leave for as long as I can remember. Pilots in some airlines are being asked to take unpaid leave with the Max groundings.

Nothing interesting about it. I don’t believe anybody is being forced into anything, they’re just trying to temporarily reduce the work force.

Given Norwegian's perilous position I'd say its very interesting.

[Vokes55]

Reducing the numbers on the payroll whilst some of the fleet is temporarily unavailable would be seen as a wise business move by most people with at least half a brain cell.

Maybe I’m expecting too much though

[Vokes55]

https://www.reuters.com/article/norwegian-air-traffic/norwegian-airs-april-passenger-income-beats-expectations-idUSASP001154

Sorry for ruining the forum vibe with positive news

[SealinkBF]

Norwegian is a house of cards. Their most recent accounts bases reduced losses on compensation from Boeing!
Previous accounts have been destroyed by analysis from the likes of Cranky Flyer.

[LGS6753]

Norwegian's April load factor: 86.1%
Ryanair's April load factor: 96%
EasyJet's Q1 load factor: 89.7% [EZY seem to have stopped reporting theirs monthly]

[FFHKG]

Load factor does not reflect profitability. Was it not recently reported that they were making a loss of €16 on every passenger that flies with them..... that's a lot of money!!

[Vokes55]

And you think that means that if Norwegian’s load factor increased, they’d lose €16 for every additional passenger they carried?

:ugh:

[EIFFS]

Norwegian have been caught in a perfect storm, some of it of their own making.

The problem with the 787 is well documented and means that between 2-4 airframes are out of service each week due to the ongoing engine issue, the costs for this will likely fall on RR and Norwegian have proactively leased in capacity to avoid expensive cancellations during the summer.

The MAX is also well documented and fortunately it’s this year and not next when the operational impact would have been far higher. There are some upsides however, certain marginal routes such as BGO SWF have chopped and overall aircraft utilisation has increased.

The newly launched Dublin Hamilton route was planned at a daily service, but was cut to alternate days, some rebooking of passengers but the majority accepted a date change and load factor 90% more or less since inception and this being done non stop on ETPOS NG’s

The company is now using LIDO flight planning software which is more accurate than the PPS system ( although PPS always used LIDO data for long haul flights) but is now better optimised for these Atlantic routes.

Winter will be the big challenge, whilst I wouldn’t describe pilot resignations as a mass exodus it is certainly at a far higher level than I have seen over the last two to three years, driven by Norwegian uncertainty and job opportunities elsewhere, I expect this will continue into the summer period. I think it’s likely that further temporary reductions in pilot hours will be required over the winter period and until the re introduction of the MAX timescale is known.

If Norwegian avoids another calamity of its own making or external market conditions then I would expect to see a slow recovery towards profitability going forward, but I think another loss is 2019 is now likely

[racedo]

If Norwegian avoids another calamity of its own making or external market conditions then I would expect to see a slow recovery towards profitability going forward, but I think another loss is 2019 is now likely

I would see losses in 2019 BUT there is going to be a huge cash flow benefit in that RR and Boeing will be paying sizeable compensation, the 45 million quoted will not even be close to the final figure, lost profitability, damage to brand, management time etc etc. Cash cost I would expect to be close to this years rights issue.

Events not of your own making can change an airlines future...... 9/11 and Ryanair for an example.

Also from a passenger point of view they are a bit more forgiven when it is not airline causing the issue but manufacturer.

[Dct_Mopas]

So where/when has any possible compensation from RR and Boeing been confirmed as being in cash? Quite often the compensation from will be in the form of reduced prices for future orders/ free training/ etc etc.

That doesn’t helped an airline struggling for cash. Also, passengers care not who’s at fault for flight cancellations and disruption. It will always be the airline to take the blame.

[A320ECAM]

Exactly!

Do people really think Boeing and RR are going to give cash compensation to all airlines affected by the 787 issues and 737 MAX issues? If they did that, they would be both bankrupt by tomorrow! How many airlines are affected by these two separate issues?

Norwegian have more chance getting the rights to Siberian airspace from Russia than they do of getting cash from Boeing/RR!

[racedo]

So where/when has any possible compensation from RR and Boeing been confirmed as being in cash? Quite often the compensation from will be in the form of reduced prices for future orders/ free training/ etc etc.

That doesn’t helped an airline struggling for cash. Also, passengers care not who’s at fault for flight cancellations and disruption. It will always be the airline to take the blame.

No chance will discounts for future orders be accepted as an equivalent unless you double the amount you talking of.

Airline paid the cash out so it requires repaying, refuse to pay and then Airline no longer pay for planes, cancel leases, handback aircraft and state unwilling to use because do not believe they are safe. Every other airline will then ask "Why and What do they know" and watch Boeing collapse.

I posted in another thread that a minor chip issue in 1994 cost Intel $500 and almost the company, it affected hundred users at most but everybody wanted it changed and other people stopped using Intel chips in their equipment.

Boeing go to court and will eventually get a final judgement in 2035 because that is how long it will take and Norwegian take Boeing to court for selling unsafe planes. Lawyers get rich and both go bust.

Boeing has no high road to take because only needs one Airline to hand back and refuse to fly as unsafe and watch everybody following.

[SealinkBF]

And you think that means that if Norwegian’s load factor increased, they’d lose €16 for every additional passenger they carried?

:ugh:

Depends on the price they charge. But a £16 loss at 86% load is not the sign of a healthy airline. And they aren't healthy.

[davidjohnson6]

Norwegian's finances are a lot more precarious than Boeing. If 737 Max compensation goes into a prolonged court battle, Norwegian will most likely end up declaring bankruptcy first and any post-bankruptcy administrators are far less likely to have the desire for a multi-year court fight than existing execs. Both sides know this, and they also know that Boeing will be more than capable of finding some spurious reason as to why SouthWest in the USA (who have strong finances and can play a waiting game in court) should get cash compensation while Norwegian should get only a discount off the next order. Of course if IAG shoukd buy Norwegian then Boeing might change their mind - perhaps unfair but that's called capitalism

If either side think they might go bankrupt, they will be much more inclined to settle out of court for whatever derisory terms the other side proposes.

Boeing as a major defence contractor has the implicit backing of the US Govt who will regard Boeing as a strategic US asset - they can play tough if Boeing is nearing Chapter 11. When Deepwater caught fire, the UK Govt went into bat for BP as a strategic asset against Obama. I am not sure how far the Norwegian Govt will want to go down the route of diplomacy in comparison

I agree with racedo that airlines will want significantly extra compensation as discounts in the future compared to compensation in cash now. I do not however believe that if 1 airline throws their toys out of the pram saying the Max is unsafe to fly that other airlines will take them seriously; Norwegian is very likely not privileged to info on the 737 Max which American does not have. Once the FAA, EASA and others recertify the 737 Max in the next 12 months then barring a hull loss, Norwegian would have to be very convincing for American to ground their aircraft on Norwegian's say so.

[EGAC is Better]

Exactly!

Do people really think Boeing and RR are going to give cash compensation to all airlines affected by the 787 issues and 737 MAX issues? If they did that, they would be both bankrupt by tomorrow! How many airlines are affected by these two separate issues?

Norwegian have more chance getting the rights to Siberian airspace from Russia than they do of getting cash from Boeing/RR!

RR sold a product that requires a recall for safety reasons. This is costing the airline cold, hard cash to mitigate both in leasing capacity and in paying leases for B787’s that are grounded.

Boeing sold an airplane that crashes itself, with a flawed system, a questionable certification process and denied there were any problems (what else don’t we know about?!). While these planes are grounded, they are costing money in leasing and operationally to find capacity elsewhere.

Now add all the additional administration required to organise keeping the operation afloat. That costs money too.

If I was managing any company let down so badly by suppliers, I’d be seeking as a starting point; full compensation on every penny spent to stay operational, compensation for the inconvenience caused, compensation for damage to my brand and finally, future discounts or I’ll take my business to your competitor. Play this right and Norwegian may have a healthy lump of cash and discounts on future orders coming their way.

[EGAC is Better]

Boeing as a major defence contractor has the implicit backing of the US Govt who will regard Boeing as a strategic US asset - they can play tough if Boeing is nearing Chapter 11.

If this doesn’t transpire to be one of the reasons for the MAX mess, I’ll be shocked. ie. Boeing have appeared to present an attitude of being untouchable throughout the fallout. If that is their attitude now, what must it have been like when designing the MAX?

It is imperative airlines like Norwegian hold them to account and send a message that their behaviour has been unacceptable.

[rog747]

I think it has been well reported that RR has put aside 100's of millions of £ to pay 787 affected airlines compensation due to the engine issues.

I could assume to pay means cash compensation, rather than offer future sweeteners...BUT we do not have that info, nor likely will we.

So far there hasn't been credible reports of Boeing doing the same as yet, re the MAX, but surely brand new planes do have some sort of warranty attached to them - ?
Most MAX are leased and not owned by the airlines - so do the lessors stop paying the lease fees, and the airlines stop paying the lessor?
I guess the MAX affected airlines at this stage do have to pay now for the ACMI leases they are scrabbling around to find uplift with for most likely the rest of the summer season at least.

We really cannot pontificate anymore as we are simply not employed in the Accounts, or the Commercial Departments of any of these airlines, nor are we privy unless they publicly announce exactly what their terms are with RR & Boeing in these unforeseen circumstances.

[racedo]

I think it has been well reported that RR has put aside 100's of millions of £ to pay 787 affected airlines compensation due to the engine issues.

I could assume to pay means cash compensation, rather than offer future sweeteners...BUT we do not have that info, nor likely will we.

So far there hasn't been credible reports of Boeing doing the same as yet, re the MAX, but surely brand new planes do have some sort of warranty attached to them - ?
Most MAX are leased and not owned by the airlines - so do the lessors stop paying the lease fees, and the airlines stop paying the lessor?
I guess the MAX affected airlines at this stage do have to pay now for the ACMI leases they are scrabbling around to find uplift with for most likely the rest of the summer season at least.

We really cannot pontificate anymore as we are simply not employed in the Accounts, or the Commercial Departments of any of these airlines, nor are we privy unless they publicly announce exactly what their terms are with RR & Boeing in these unforeseen circumstances.

Boeing have stated in Q1 results that it has already cost them $1 billion, they then refused to provide a single piece of financial guidance on the rest of the year. Basically telling everybody it is going to be bad and we have no idea how bad.

Most Airlines sold via US are financed via EXIM................. basically US Govt funded Export Credit, if Lease co's and Airlines decide not to pay then US Govt on the hook.

Airline buy an aircraft at Book prices of $50 million for $25 million, sell to Lease co for $50 million, in effect pocketing $25 million in cash and pay the lease co over the life of the asset with an agreed future resale value.

While Boeing is a strategic asset for US Govt the issue will be that US Govt will not wish to put €10 billion directly into them as that is State aid and EADS would be in court.

The longer it goes on the more damage to Boeing as it is future orders that will be the issue, I think anybody with a Max order for Q4 this year will be lucky to get it in Q4 2020.

[VickersVicount]

Whats the Norwegian 789 doing at PIK? (positioned in from LGW at 1800hrs), perhaps training circuits or maintenance?

[awwdabaaby]

Whats the Norwegian 789 doing at PIK? (positioned in from LGW at 1800hrs), perhaps training circuits or maintenance?

Maintenance

[ScotsSLF]

Whats the Norwegian 789 doing at PIK? (positioned in from LGW at 1800hrs), perhaps training circuits or maintenance?
Chevron have a maintenance contract with Norwegian for their 787s. I think this is the 3rd or 4th that’s been in with more to follow.
https://m.facebook.com/Chevrontech/photos/a.348254795257470/2108286762587589/?type=3&source=48&__tn__=EH-R

[VickersVicount]

Chevron have a maintenance contract with Norwegian for their 787s. I think this is the 3rd or 4th that’s been in with more to follow.
https://m.facebook.com/Chevrontech/photos/a.348254795257470/2108286762587589/?type=3&source=48&__tn__=EH-R

Excellent. That's the type of work PIK should focus its concerns.

[840]

All Transatlantic routes from Ireland scrapped. Blame is being cast on the 737 Max issues, but as regular followers of this thread will know, that's only part of the story.

In terms of the airports, it represents a loss of 242K passengers at Dublin, 82K at Shannon and 28K at Cork. The Shannon figure is close to 5% of all traffic and represents a big loss. For Cork and Dublin, it's closer to 1% and will get lost in this year's growth, although the loss of Cork's only transatlantic link is symbolically important.

[Smooth Airperator]

According to this article, at TUI the full cost of having grounded Max jets could reach 300 million Euros in 2019. http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/340123/tui-profits-hit-by-max-737-grounding-and-brexit-uncertainty

Norwegian, who have a similar number of Max jets reckon it will be a €30-40 million hit. Norwegian Airlines management is either smoking the good stuff or deliberately deluding investors and customers alike.

[TartinTon]

According to this article, at TUI the full cost of having grounded Max jets could reach 300 million Euros in 2019. http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/340123/tui-profits-hit-by-max-737-grounding-and-brexit-uncertainty

Norwegian, who have a similar number of Max jets reckon it will be a €30-40 million hit. Norwegian Airlines management is either smoking the good stuff or deliberately deluding investors and customers alike.

But TUI will lose out on the whole package revenue as opposed to just the flight rev for Norwegian

[Smooth Airperator]

But TUI will lose out on the whole package revenue as opposed to just the flight rev for Norwegian

Not sure if that's true. Wet lease has been brought in to make sure people get their holidays.

[Peter47]

I agree with 840. If it were simply a max issue Norwegian would suspend its Irish flights for the winter months and reinstate them next summer when (hopefully) the Max will be flying again. They are clearly unprofitable.

Network wide I assume that most of Norwegian's problems are long haul - certain the low cost model works far better for SH than LH. The new CEO is going on about profitability rather than growth but how many of their LH routes are actually profitable?

[toledoashley]

The Irish routes were especially popular with Americans, although Irish preferred to fly with Aer Lingus - so maybe that was a part of play. However, Norwegian’s line is that it isn’t profitable running them with weight restricted 737-800’s and there is no certainty in the MAX situation - so they would rather cancel them.

[2Para]

I wouldnt think it is a weight restriction issue, more like a range issue.

[brian_dromey]

The Irish routes were especially popular with Americans, although Irish preferred to fly with Aer Lingus - so maybe that was a part of play. However, Norwegian’s line is that it isn’t profitable running them with weight restricted 737-800’s and there is no certainty in the MAX situation - so they would rather cancel them.

Its a shame that all Trans Atlantic Norwegian routes have been cancelled from Ireland, its an interesting model, but even with the MAX is challenged by poor utilisation. I think that just leaves the LGW operations? Ireland is a tough market with Aer Lingus (IAG) at one end with two-class A330/321/757s and the US3 at the other. EI and AA will likely have their JV in place from next summer. Wit the DL/VS/AF/KL and StarJV Point-to-Point service between secondary markets is a tough sell and fares are rock bottom this winter - I think the narrow-body operations might have a better chance flying into a US hub, or Dublin.

[2Para]

Its a shame that all Trans Atlantic Norwegian routes have been cancelled from Ireland, its an interesting model, but even with the MAX is challenged by poor utilisation. I think that just leaves the LGW operations? Ireland is a tough market with Aer Lingus (IAG) at one end with two-class A330/321/757s and the US3 at the other. EI and AA will likely have their JV in place from next summer. Wit the DL/VS/AF/KL and StarJV Point-to-Point service between secondary markets is a tough sell and fares are rock bottom this winter - I think the narrow-body operations might have a better chance flying into a US hub, or Dublin.
i think that BFS will be the surprise one to profit from all the eggs in one basket, all they need to do is market themselves correct and get the finger out to spend some money!, scotsman in charge always worrying lol

[rog747]

I wouldn't think it is a weight restriction issue, more like a range issue.

Same - more weight/payload (pax/cargo) loaded (ie wanting to take a full load of 189 pax non-stop) means less range available as more fuel is needed -- or you are TO weight restricted due any airport/runway limitations/WAT -

The 737 is not a Transatlantic load and long hauler LOL

[TartinTon]

Not sure if that's true. Wet lease has been brought in to make sure people get their holidays.

You miss the point. TUI make money from the WHOLE package whereas Norwegian just have the flight i.e. TUI make money on resort spend, excursions, transfers etc etc

[racedo]

The Irish routes were especially popular with Americans, although Irish preferred to fly with Aer Lingus - so maybe that was a part of play. However, Norwegian’s line is that it isn’t profitable running them with weight restricted 737-800’s and there is no certainty in the MAX situation - so they would rather cancel them.

At the moment there is a recession happening, warning signs have been there for a while. Max issue allows a withdrawal from the market, maybe to return on another occasion or another operator to do so.

Indebtedness is worse than 2008, company debt is worse, national debt is worse and western world is slipping into a recession.

Max issue will help a lot of companies because it allows consolidation of routes and more importantly Boeing will be paying a lot of cash out.

[EI-BUD]

Its a shame that all Trans Atlantic Norwegian routes have been cancelled from Ireland, its an interesting model, but even with the MAX is challenged by poor utilisation. I think that just leaves the LGW operations? Ireland is a tough market with Aer Lingus (IAG) at one end with two-class A330/321/757s and the US3 at the other. EI and AA will likely have their JV in place from next summer. Wit the DL/VS/AF/KL and StarJV Point-to-Point service between secondary markets is a tough sell and fares are rock bottom this winter - I think the narrow-body operations might have a better chance flying into a US hub, or Dublin.
what did that mean Brian_dromey, 'that just leaves the LGW opetations'?

Norwegian have a very extensive operation across the Atlantic from many cities like Paris, Amsterdam, Barcelona etc. Mostly centred on NYC and West Coast.
​​​​​​Maybe I'm misunderstanding.
​​

[EI-BUD]

i think that BFS will be the surprise one to profit from all the eggs in one basket, all they need to do is market themselves correct and get the finger out to spend some money!, scotsman in charge always worrying lol
How do you figure that BFS will benefit from this?
It would be great if only it were true. Sadly, the long standing 757 run on UA didn't make a satisfactory return on investment and Norwegian were out like a shot. Norwegian have traditionally not been one to cut routes, but they didn't give BFS much time, that speaks volumes.

The bulk of NI passengers go to Dublin, enjoy US immigration preclearance and fly non-stop. Some go via LHR or AMS and some via MAN and LGW. I was on Aer Lingus BHD LHR and there were lots of passengers on the early flight going via LHR to the US...

EI-BUD

[2Para]

How do you figure that BFS will benefit from this?
It would be great if only it were true. Sadly, the long standing 757 run on UA didn't make a satisfactory return on investment and Norwegian were out like a shot. Norwegian have traditionally not been one to cut routes, but they didn't give BFS much time, that speaks volumes.

The bulk of NI passengers go to Dublin, enjoy US immigration preclearance and fly non-stop. Some go via LHR or AMS and some via MAN and LGW. I was on Aer Lingus BHD LHR and there were lots of passengers on the early flight going via LHR to the US...

EI-BUD
fair enough, but aer lingus managed a split run for years, i suppose in todays loco days 2 landing fees and 2 handling fees just won't work.

[kildress]

For how many years did Aer Lingus manage a Split Run​​​​ (by which I presume you mean flights originating in DUB and BFS meeting in SNN to swop onward pax to JFK and BOS)?
I only recall using it once.
For me, transatlantic from DUB is a no-brainer, although I did occasionally depart DUB and return to BFS (Continental/UA) to have local immigration/customs and short journey home on return
IMHO, there simply is no sustainable BFS transatlantic market other than a few summer holiday jaunts.
I think the carriers have established that as a fact

[FFHKG]

Airline Routes reporting this morning what could almost be described as a "cull" of their short-haul routes, some suspended and some cancelled. This suggests that they have far too many routes that are unsustainable from a financial point of view. Assuming that they will be either grounding or returning some of their aircraft to the leasing companies.

[Vokes55]

Or that they’re cutting routes which don’t make money in the winter, like most other airlines in Europe?

Why is everything Norwegian do seen as a big deal on the Internet?

[FFHKG]

Many of the routes that are discontinued/not returning are the winter sun routes from Europe down to the Canary Islands, not ones you would expect to be cut.

[JSCL]

Many of the routes that are discontinued/not returning are the winter sun routes from Europe down to the Canary Islands, not ones you would expect to be cut.

Well it wasn't too long ago I was on a flight from Manchester to Tenerife with Norwegian in November and only 12 people onboard...

[Mr @ Spotty M]

I see that Norwegian have been awarded 3 slot pairs for Heathrow starting summer 2020.
I wonder what routes they will operate?
Summer season starts 29th March.

[alm1]

I see that Norwegian have been awarded 3 slot pairs for Heathrow starting summer 2020.
I wonder what routes they will operate?
Summer season starts 29th March.

With 3 weekly return flights it is going to be one route if any.

[daz211]

Orlando maybe :ok:

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I see that Norwegian have been awarded 3 slot pairs for Heathrow starting summer 2020.
I wonder what routes they will operate?
Summer season starts 29th March.
Pointless eve trying at three weekly. If BA can match them on costs at Gatters with a 10 abreast B777, one wonders how higher cost LHR will work for Norwegian directly up against BA/AA, DL/VS and UA. Are they really going to chase bucket fares out of *Heathrow* on JFK? This is a pyramid scheme not an airline...

[PDXCWL45]

Pointless eve trying at three weekly. If BA can match them on costs at Gatters with a 10 abreast B777, one wonders how higher cost LHR will work for Norwegian directly up against BA/AA, DL/VS and UA. Are they really going to chase bucket fares out of *Heathrow* on JFK? This is a pyramid scheme not an airline...
It's been suggested elsewhere that they would launch a 3 weekly Orlando.

[willy wombat]

I got excited when I read “three slots” as I stupidly assumed this was per day. Three a week is not quite as exciting. Can someone enlighten us as to what the timings granted are and what destination was used in the application?

[7Three7Specialist]

It will most likely be a W pattern.

LGW > MCO > LHR > MCO > LGW

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Given LHR is higher cost and MCO and high volume leisure destination with comparably limited business traffic, why add further costs by opening LHR. It's adding nothing but further costs to an existing LON-MCO rotation. Traditionally you move a long haul route to LHR to easier sell the front cabin, but I don't see much of a marginal difference on MCO vs LGW.

[PDXCWL45]

Given LHR is higher cost and MCO and high volume leisure destination with comparably limited business traffic, why add further costs by opening LHR. It's adding nothing but further costs to an existing LON-MCO rotation. Traditionally you move a long haul route to LHR to easier sell the front cabin, but I don't see much of a marginal difference on MCO vs LGW.
They are probably looking to attract passengers from North Greater London who prefer Heathrow. I know a relative who last year used Heathrow to go to Orlando via Charlotte with American rather than go to Gatwick. He and his family live in Watford. Also Heathrow is more convenient to get to from the South West and southern Wales and the Midlands.

[SWBKCB]

Also Heathrow is more convenient to get to from the South West and southern Wales and the Midlands.

And a long list of other places...

[casadave]

For the avoidance of doubt these are 3 slot pairs DAILY from next summer (from a well placed source inside DY), so a gamechanger for Norwegian and one which will have a bearing on the value of the company. They may well also be offered some 'slotsitting' opportunities as well so this could be a very smart timely move.

[Yeehaw22]

Not according to flightglobal.

"Heathrow's slot co-ordination organisation, ACL, has disclosed that Norwegian requested 14 weekly slots but has been given six, the equivalent of three weekly departures."

[alm1]

For the avoidance of doubt these are 3 slot pairs DAILY from next summer (from a well placed source inside DY), so a gamechanger for Norwegian and one which will have a bearing on the value of the company. They may well also be offered some 'slotsitting' opportunities as well so this could be a very smart timely move.

No this is false. And more so if you talk about the value of the company. Norwegian is most traded retail stock in Norway with wild swings of more that 10% per day on gossips or as they call them game changing news. The last fake news about SSJ order were shared as some secret inside info for weeks even after proven false.

[116d]

They are probably looking to attract passengers from North Greater London who prefer Heathrow. I know a relative who last year used Heathrow to go to Orlando via Charlotte with American rather than go to Gatwick. He and his family live in Watford. Also Heathrow is more convenient to get to from the South West and southern Wales and the Midlands.

Indeed. I spent a bit of time living in East Berkshire and from where I lived LHR was within 25 minutes driving time, compared to 1 hour for LGW if the M25 was clear. For most people living in North/North West/West London and for most living North/North West/West/South West of the M25, it is easier to get to LHR than it is to LGW. The market is there, but you wouldn't know it unless somebody tried it due to the well-documented slot constraints at LHR. There's also the fact that LHR is considered the primary London gateway.

[Navpi]

Indeed. I spent a bit of time living in East Berkshire and from where I lived LHR was within 25 minutes driving time, compared to 1 hour for LGW if the M25 was clear. For most people living in North/North West/West London and for most living North/North West/West/South West of the M25, it is easier to get to LHR than it is to LGW. The market is there, but you wouldn't know it unless somebody tried it due to the well-documented slot constraints at LHR. There's also the fact that LHR is considered the primary London gateway.

Is this really the best use of slots.

Are we not veering away from a business market here ?

I thought LHR was supposed to be the prestige airport for London not the lo cost market ?

[Vokes55]

Is this really the best use of slots.

Are we not veering away from a business market here ?

I thought LHR was supposed to be the prestige airport for London not the lo cost market ?

Id say it’s the best use of slots that are on Tuesdays, Saturdays and Sundays, include early afternoon arrivals into LHR and have no direct competition. 3x weekly is also a sensible starting block for such a route, unlike a JFK/LAX that would require a daily service to be competitive.

The “best use of slots” argument is rather null and void when the slots were free. If it doesn’t work out, they give them back.

If they’d paid an extortionate amount for them, fine.

[willy wombat]

Actually I think LHR MCO will work for them. There are more than enough customers for a reasonably priced business class on that route and they will have no problem filling economy at a reasonable yield. After all, you don't really think that EK fills five A380s a day from LHR to DXB entirely with business passengers do you?

[Mr @ Spotty M]

I see that they have off loaded the Argentinean operation.

[Superpilot]

No surprises there.

[clipstone1]

Actually I think LHR MCO will work for them. There are more than enough customers for a reasonably priced business class on that route and they will have no problem filling economy at a reasonable yield. After all, you don't really think that EK fills five A380s a day from LHR to DXB entirely with business passengers do you?

Norwegian's premium cabin is hardly "Business Class" though (admittedly its not Business class price either)

[fjencl]

8 hours ago - Norwegian to wet-lease three A320s ch-aviation PRO exclusive. SmartLynx Airlines Airbus A320-200 © SmartLynx Airlines

Anybody know where these 3 A320's are to be based, what routes will they be on, and how long will Norwegian be leasing them for.

Thanks

[davidjohnson6]

Why do Norwegian need to wet lease aircraft ? I would venture that they need to be slimming their operation down and if necessary cutting routes, no matter what is happening to the 737 Max

[Gurnard]

Another question ... Why are so many 737s being SE- registered? The LN- and EI- fleets are both shrinking fast, yet the SE- fleet are operating the very same routes which would have been flown by EI- and LN- aircraft. What is the financial incentive?

[Severn]

8 hours ago - Norwegian to wet-lease three A320s ch-aviation PRO exclusive. SmartLynx Airlines Airbus A320-200 © SmartLynx Airlines

Anybody know where these 3 A320's are to be based, what routes will they be on, and how long will Norwegian be leasing them for.

Thanks

Norwegian (DY) will base the leased A320s in OSL (2) and ARN (1).
Not sure for how long they will be leased for.
The routes served by the A320s from OSL will be AMS, BCN, BUD, CDG, GDN, KRK, MUC, NCE, PLQ, RIX, SXF, VIA, VNO, WAW
The routes served by the A320 from ARN will be ALC, AMS, CDG, FCO, KRK, PRG, RAK, RIX, SXF

Currently, the short-haul fleet for the group is as follows:
Norwegian (DY):
27x B738s and 3x grounded B38M

Norwegian Air International (D8):
53x B738 and 9x grounded B38M

Norwegian Air Sweden (LE):
18x B738 and 6x grounded B38M

[sewushr]

A little out of date with the numbers Severn. The Norwegian Air Sweden B738 fleet is already at least 24!

Most came from the Norwegian Air Norway (NAN) fleet, which now seems to be down to just one aircraft (LN-NIB)

[Mr @ Spotty M]

I see we now have the answer to which destinations Norwegian are going to use the slots awarded to them at Heathrow, the answer is very straight forward and is no where.
They have returned the slots to ACL.

[davidjohnson6]

Share price of Norwegian is down 50% in the last 7 days. Easyjet by comparison is down just 20%

Yes, coronavirus is the root cause, but with a market cap of about £250m for the entire airline, this is really not healthy...

[onion]

David you cant really compare the two when it comes to the fall out from Coronavirus.
Norwegian are far more exposed to it in that they operate worldwide and into nations where the response and measures in place are likely to be less than those of easy.

I will give you that Norwegian are not well placed though to take a 50% reduction in share price.

[fanrailuk]

Norwegian Air shares plunge to 15-year low as coronavirus adds to pressure (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/310688ae-5f91-11ea-b0ab-339c2307bcd4)

[vlieger]

Norwegian Air shares plunge to 15-year low as coronavirus adds to pressure (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/310688ae-5f91-11ea-b0ab-339c2307bcd4)

Behind a paywall. Guardian link here: Norwegian airlines shares plummet as coronavirus hammers travel sector (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/06/norwegian-airlines-shares-plummet-as-coronavirus-hammers-travel-sector).

Turbulent times ahead.

[rotorwills]

Sad state of affairs, it's a dog eat dog out there. Squeeze will be on and Norwegian aren't placed well out there. Hyenas are ready to pick over their bones. Awful state of affairs in our beloved industry.

[vikingivesterled]

Norwegian is ripe for picking. The dedicated owners are gone and it is now lead by somebody with litle or no experience from the airline industry and next to no ownership share and that represents no blocking interest.
Anyone with finance and a plan can now scoop it up relatively cheaply as a going concern with AOC's and rights in several countries.
But that three will soon be rich with options and they who are left with readies can then snap up a lot of different bargains within the industry.

[racedo]

Norwegian Air shares plunge to 15-year low as coronavirus adds to pressure (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/310688ae-5f91-11ea-b0ab-339c2307bcd4)

Share price has little to do with day to day running of a business. Claims it could be taken over are wide of the mark as would need lots of shareholders willing to sell and it doesn't appear to be the case,

Share price has collapsed worse than the market but er .......... so what ? Everybody else is down and LH has parked 20% of its fleet with many others likely to follow,

[vikingivesterled]

Share price has little to do with day to day running of a business. Claims it could be taken over are wide of the mark as would need lots of shareholders willing to sell and it doesn't appear to be the case,

Share price has collapsed worse than the market but er .......... so what ? Everybody else is down and LH has parked 20% of its fleet with many others likely to follow,

Reports say 20 million Norwegian shares traded a day lately, against normally < 1 million, so plenty of willing sellers.
And the rest would probably fold for a low offer, to save something.
Most expects a lot worse news from when traffic and earining numbers legally have to be presented. Many airlines are holding out for the sign of a recovery before they say anything negative. So far sample Norwegian have only said how ok February was and how much they have already sold for March. None have come with real figures beyond that or dare to predict anything about the full year anymore.

And didn't LH announce yesterday increase of capacity reduction from 25% to 50%, including parking all their A380's.

[davidjohnson6]

I realise that the long haul flying of Norwegian has probably very few reliably profitable routes. However which parts of Norwegian or which bases have been consistently good performers ? Domestic routes within Norway ? Other routes within the Nordic countries ? Gatwick ?

I know that if an airline pulls a route it means it either makes a loss or just about breaks even, but when an airline has committed to a lot of aircraft it sometimes ends up flying them just because it will be less loss making than a grounded aircraft and thus to recover some of the lease cost. Norwegian has far too many aircraft in its fleet - so continuing to fly a routes does not imply profitability !

[EIFFS]

I think there is little doubt that this is probably biggest threat to Norwegians future to date, a shame really as they have addressed many of the underlying issues through cuts to cost base, shedding its Argentinian operation and under performing routes. Ultimately cash is king Ryanair has loads and Norwegian not much at all so the fall off in bookings will hurt.

The carnage will be wide spread, if you’re told not gather in groups at school or football matches, then I can’t see people being keen to jump on an aircraft however cheap the seats.

Norwegian should be very proactive cut everyone’s wages by 50% for 2 months, if/when they get through this crisis they
can always pay it back, 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

[davidjohnson6]

The problem with cutting wages, is that employment law in most European countries forbids it. If staff are on variable hours contracts, you can reduce the number of hours; contract stuff can be cut; redundancies can be issued; you can appeal for staff to take unpaid leave; but non payment or cutting of contracted wages will quickly see the courts getting involved

[Manx]

I
Norwegian should be very proactive cut everyone’s wages by 50% for 2 months, if/when they get through this crisis they
can always pay it back, 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

I hope you never manage any of my current or future employers.

[EIFFS]

True but if it is done with the employees agreement then it’s legal, of course not all can,would, will agree.

[TartinTon]

The problem with cutting wages, is that employment law in most European countries forbids it. If staff are on variable hours contracts, you can reduce the number of hours; contract stuff can be cut; redundancies can be issued; you can appeal for staff to take unpaid leave; but non payment or cutting of contracted wages will quickly see the courts getting involved

Not sure about that. Monarch implemented something similar for a 6 month period where they cut 10% of all salaries in return for a 4-day week.

[Irish Cream]

If a business cannot afford to pay people the wages at 100% market rate then it does not deserve to be a business at all

[racedo]

If a business cannot afford to pay people the wages at 100% market rate then it does not deserve to be a business at all

What is the "market rate" for flight crew when Airlines are sacking people or going bust ?

If there are lots of people available then market rate drops so therefore should a business just drop everybody's pay to follow suit ?

It is easy to state nobody should take a pay cut in order for a business to survive and quote market rate. What people mean by that is you can never cut pay, when you start quoting market rates you have to accept pay cuts as well as pay increases. This is how market works.

[pamann]

Norwegian should be very proactive cut everyone’s wages by 50% for 2 months, if/when they get through this crisis they
can always pay it back, 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

Why attack the pond feeders?

Isn’t it about time that the fat cat bosses took less money out of the business instead of bleeding them dry.

This is where the problem lies. Just look at Thomas Cook.

[LTNman]

Not sure about that. Monarch implemented something similar for a 6 month period where they cut 10% of all salaries in return for a 4-day week.

...and they still went bust

[Buster the Bear]

I guess Norwegian are owed quite a bit from both Boeing (MAX) and Rolls (787 engines) issues?

[fanrailuk]

Norwegian Air to cut 4,000 flights, lay off half its employees (https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/norwegian-air-to-cut-4-000-flights-lay-off-half-its-employees-1.4201318)

[Gurnard]

NORWEGIAN SOS PLEA

https://www.lifeinnorway.net/norwegian-on-the-brink/

[EIFFS]

It’s out of Norwegians control now, there is absolutely nothing that can change the outcome and without immediate state intervention, then to be frank there is little point continuing beyond the end of this week and CEO knows that.

The problem I see ( actually one of a number) is that the biggest cost base is probably LGW long haul and not much of that really matters to Norway, it’s possible that they could break up the company and retain the Scandinavian & Finish short haul fleet, the company has multiple AOC’s so it probably isn’t to difficult slice and dice.

[SealinkBF]

Horrible for the staff, but I can't see Norwegian surviving this.....

[victorpapa]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-norway-primeminist-idUSKBN212146

[LTNman]

I read this comment. If true it won’t help.

Norwegian moved a large portion of the Company to Ireland to avoid paying taxes in Norway and avoid troublesome Norwegian Labour laws.. Now they want the Norwegian government to bail them out..

[SealinkBF]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-norway-primeminist-idUSKBN212146

If this happens amazing, but Norwegian have underlying finance issues anyway. Let's hope for the best...

[racedo]

If this happens amazing, but Norwegian have underlying finance issues anyway. Let's hope for the best...

If they take it from their Sovreign funds it is the equivalent of less that 1% of the value of the fund......... not even a drop in the ocean.

[Sotonsean]

It appears that Norwegian have been given a lifeline by the Norwegian Government.

Information in the following link plus British Airways, easyJet, Virgin Atlantic

www.headforpoints.com/2020/03/21/norwegian-secures-a-government-bail-out/

[Charlie Roy]

Norwegian is split into a dozen companies, most outside Norway. I wonder is the Norwegian government bailing out Norwegian as a whole, or just the Norwegian wing of Norwegian?

[racedo]

Norwegian is split into a dozen companies, most outside Norway. I wonder is the Norwegian government bailing out Norwegian as a whole, or just the Norwegian wing of Norwegian?

Keep it viable will be the thing. Those big loss makers they can cut loose.

[Smooth Airperator]

Norwegian UK (NUK), callsign Rednose, is the true cash maker for the group. It runs under a UK AOC and employs mostly Brits via agency employment with some having moved over to OSM, Norwegian's in house agency for employment. The company is famous for such shoddy employment practices such as this and it will be difficult to unravel. It would be interesting to see how this works out because the British government sure as hell isn't going to touch this mess with a barge pole.

[RoyHudd]

Sadly, Norwegian represent the end-point of the airline industry in 2020. Low fares, tight margins, sub-standard employment T & C's, and now enormous over-capacity and debt.

I feel very sorry for their employees, but not for Norwegian's founders and top brass. The airline is destined to go under within weeks, although small bits may just be salvageable. (Unlikely)

The customers can't be blamed for greed, although their appetite for unfeasibly cheap fares has supported the idiocy and greed of the airline management.

The future airline world will be a reversion to low frequency, high fare flights, with many fewer and much better-paid pilots and engineers. The lesser-skilled pay grades such as cabin crew, cleaners, and the like, will all be paid as poorly as before. Perhaps worse. Sad.

[Dannyboy39]

Norwegian UK (NUK), callsign Rednose, is the true cash maker for the group. It runs under a UK AOC and employs mostly Brits via agency employment with some having moved over to OSM, Norwegian's in house agency for employment. The company is famous for such shoddy employment practices such as this and it will be difficult to unravel. It would be interesting to see how this works out because the British government sure as hell isn't going to touch this mess with a barge pole.
Well this is going to be the problem in the coming weeks. How do you decide which airline will get a bailout? Why should Norwegian taxpayers provide cash for an U.K. AOC? Or British taxpayers for IAG based in Spain? Or for EasyJet with 150 aircraft registered in Austria?

It’s going to be a real bumfight.

[eu01]

EasyJet with 150 aircraft registered in Austria?
easyJet should not be blamed for that, this folly has it's own name, brexit.

[racedo]

easyJet should not be blamed for that, this folly has it's own name, brexit.

True............

[eu01]

From the latest press release (https://media.uk.norwegian.com/pressreleases/norwegian-fulfils-criteria-for-initial-nok-300-million-in-guarantee-from-the-norwegian-government-2984753):
Reference is made to the press release by the Norwegian Government on 19 March 2020 regarding the financial measures to support the Norwegian airline industry and the subsequent stock exchange notice from Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA.
Norwegian is pleased to announce that two Nordic banks have obtained credit committee approval to provide a guarantee for the required 10 percent for the first tranche of NOK 300 million. Norwegian will secure the necessary headroom to pursue further guarantees from the Norwegian Government.

[esscee]

Also as well as their rather "suspect" manner of operating, as in AOC's and varying agencies etc., they have the unfortunate problem of being somewhat reliant on two of Boeing's "disasters", 787 with their RR problem and the 737 **x.

[Vokes55]

easyJet should not be blamed for that, this folly has it's own name, brexit.

Well NUK was only created because of Brexit. Or does that not matter because it’s Norwegian and not easyJet?

[slf001]

Well NUK was only created because of Brexit. Or does that not matter because it’s Norwegian and not easyJet?

Norwegian Air UK was actually formed in 2015, long before the Brexit vote. Their first aircraft B738 G-NRWY was registered in November 2015.
It was always operated on behalf of Norwegian Air International (Ireland) from early 2016.

When the UK registered 787s arrived in summer 2016, they initally operated on behalf on Norwegian Air Shuttle (Norway).
They started operating their own flights (with DI/NRS codes) in October 2017.

KT

[Sotonsean]

Norwegian Air UK was actually formed in 2015, long before the Brexit vote. Their first aircraft B738 G-NRWY was registered in November 2015.
It was always operated on behalf of Norwegian Air International (Ireland) from early 2016.

When the UK registered 787s arrived in summer 2016, they initally operated on behalf on Norwegian Air Shuttle (Norway).
They started operating their own flights (with DI/NRS codes) in October 2017.

KT

I'm pleased that you have taken your time to have explained that. I was thinking of doing the same actually!

[vikingivesterled]

If Norwegian needed 2 different commercial banks to come up with a combined loan of less than the eqivalent of 2.5 million pounds to release the first 25 million pounds bailout loan from the norwegian state, it is not looking good for getting their hands on any more of the bailouts because those terms are a lot more stringent.

[Vokes55]

Norwegian Air UK was actually formed in 2015, long before the Brexit vote. Their first aircraft B738 G-NRWY was registered in November 2015.
It was always operated on behalf of Norwegian Air International (Ireland) from early 2016.

When the UK registered 787s arrived in summer 2016, they initally operated on behalf on Norwegian Air Shuttle (Norway).
They started operating their own flights (with DI/NRS codes) in October 2017.

KT

G-NRWY was an AOC sitter (one registered aircraft required to maintain an AOC) for the NUK AOC, which was created once the U.K. government pledged to have the Brexit vote as part of the Election victory and Queens Speech in May 15. If the referendum result had been remain, this aircraft would’ve returned to the Irish register. Whilst the aircraft was operated under D8 flight numbers, the aircraft had dedicated routes and crew. Only NUK crew could operate on G-NRWY and couldn’t operate other aircraft in the fleet (and vice versa).

And thus, NUK was only created because of Brexit.

[GLAEDI]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/15/norwegian-air-uk-pilots-and-cabin-crew-will-not-receive-april-salary-covid-19

NAS or in fact their UK company that employs Pilots & Cabin Crew not paying staff this month as lack of funds.

[Atlantic Explorer]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/15/norwegian-air-uk-pilots-and-cabin-crew-will-not-receive-april-salary-covid-19

NAS or in fact their UK company that employs Pilots & Cabin Crew not paying staff this month as lack of funds.

Surely then the UK CAA now steps in and suspends the AOC as the company is not solvent?

[alm1]

Surely then the UK CAA now steps in and suspends the AOC as the company is not solvent?

Funny thing is that Norwegian is the only airline I got cash refund promptly for canceled flights. Still waiting from Easyjet, Ryanair and others.

[Gurnard]

"... a crew management company that directly employs Norwegian's UK crew and is half-owned by Norwegian."
Sounds complicated. How many fingers are there is the Norwegian pie? So many different Norwegian companies....
Over the past months the recently set up Norwegian Air Sweden has been receiving aircraft which were on the EI and LN registers. Is this a cost-cutting measure?
The Guardian article says the Norwegian government loan guarantee will only make £24m available to Norwegian - but is this to Norwegian as a whole or to the genuinely Norwegian part of the business? That sum won't help very much. I can't see the Norwegian government too keen to rescue a company which has been building its latest empire in Sweden.

[EI-BUD]

It feels like Norwegian need nothing short of a miracle to get through this crisis. I think sadly they'll be the first significant casualty . They already were highly leveraged going into this.

[spacedog]

Can somebody turn the ventilator off this failed airline to avoid more pain and misery later.
Surely now there are no passengers travelling it would be the ideal time to just call it a day.
this would avoid any type of rescue act as there are currently no or very few stranded passengers.
somebody should pull the Operating licence as this airline is turning into a circus act
I feel desperately sorry for the staff in this current climate, however from earlier this week they are not being paid. The current share price will be worthless very shortly. Norwegian had the chance of a takeover with IAG but valued themselves to highly, IAG walked away. Close them down now, unless they can show they are liquid and viable. Avoiding a disaster a few months down the line.

[inOban]

Surely these UK staff have all been furloughed. The problem being that this requires the Company to pay the wages upfront and the government refunds in arrears. But they don't have the cash to even do that.

[gojmc]

Surely these UK staff have all been furloughed. The problem being that this requires the Company to pay the wages upfront and the government refunds in arrears. But they don't have the cash to even do that.

the Uk crew are agency staff. That's the complication

[inOban]

The earlier post said that they were directly employed by a crew management company, itself half owned by Norwegian. So I assumed that the said company had furloughed them.

[SealinkBF]

According to Bloomberg, they are in debt to the tune of USD7.5bn. The entire company is currently valued at USD84m

I cannot see a way out for them even if their latest plan raises more funding.

[adfly]

Interesting article stating that *if* Norwegian do make it to the other end of this they will be in quite a strong position in terms of fuel costs as they have done very little hedging and the price of oil has of course plummeted.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton1/2020/04/19/norwegian-airs-paradox-strong-covid-19-recovery-if-it-avoids-bankruptcy/amp/

[SWBKCB]

So lots of ifs, buts and maybes - if they survive, if the market recovers, if oil stays low...

[iome]

https://www.tnp.no/norway/economy/norwegians-pilot-and-cabin-crew-companies-in-sweden-and-denmark-declares-bankruptcy

[HH6702]

https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/368357/thousands-of-norwegian-air-jobs-threatened-as-subsidiary-firms-declare-bankruptcy

[fanrailuk]

Norwegian CEO has posted the following statement on LinkedIn:

"Yesterday was a dark day in our history and I feel personally really sorry for all the great Red Nose Warriors we have disappointed.

It is important for me to underline that we are still fighting like dogs and the extraordinary general meeting on the 4th of May is vital for our FINANCIAL RESTRUCTURE and to get access to the 3 bnok in liquidity from the Norwegian government.

At the same time we are constructing a stronger NEW NORWEGIAN that will continue after Covid-19. With this in place we will fight our way back so we can rehire the majority of our great colleagues that we lost yesterday.

At the end it is all about ensuring our customers and Red Nose Warriors that Norwegian will live after Covid-19 and that we can return proudly to the sky as in the picture."

[AirUK]

Is ‘Red Nose Warriors’ how they refer to those poor contractors as opposed to actual Norwegian employees?

[LGS6753]

From "Travel Mole":

Low-cost Norwegian Air is planning to keep most of its flights grounded until next spring, after which it plans to start ramping up its services for the peak summer season. However, in a presentation to bondholders on Thursday it will warn that it isn't expecting flights to get back to normal until 2022. As a result, the airline needs to secure a NOK 2.7 billion loan from the Norwegian government within the next three weeks to ensure it can survive until the end of this year. It has already received NOK 300 million, but it says it needs to restructure its debt to increase its capital to release the remainder of the NOK three billion (£230 million) government loan. If it succeeds, it said the money should tide it over until the end of the year, but it warned that it might need further funding.
Currently, 95% of the Norwegian's aircraft are grounded and thousands of workers are furloughed. As part of the new business plan, the carrier plans to only operate seven aircraft in the Scandinavian region until April 2021 to minimize its cash burn, and then gradually resume long-haul and European flights. Even by 2022, it expects to operate a maximum of 120 aircraft compared with 168 prior to the pandemic, focusing only on profitable routes.
It is proposing a debt restructuring plan that will give aircraft leasing companies that are owed more than $3 billion more than half the equity in the airline, while bondholders would control the second largest share. The proposal would leave existing owners of the stock with just 5.2% of the airline. Bondholders are scheduled to vote on the proposals on Thursday before a shareholder meeting set for May 4.

[willy wombat]

Remind me, how much was IAG prepared to offer?

[LTNman]

Gatwick slots, use them or lose them. No more Norwegian at Gatwick then?

[Vokes55]

Slot restrictions have been waived and won’t come back for a while. No factor.

[willy wombat]

And I don’t think Gatwick slots are going to be hard to come by. I could, for example, see BA and VS (if they make it) pull out off LGW all together and consolidate at LHR.

[fanrailuk]

Talks continue as Norwegian fails to get bondholder majority (https://www.flightglobal.com/strategy/talks-continue-as-norwegian-fails-to-get-bondholder-majority-for-debt-conversion-plan/138187.article)

[pabely]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/04/norwegian-air-wins-support-for-rescue-plan-ahead-of-crunch-vote

[davidjohnson6]

Does anyone know what routes, both domestically and short-haul that Norwegian *really* intends to fly in September or where this info can be found ? For many routes when trying to make a booking, up to 31 August it seems that Norwegian doesn't intend to fly at all.... and then suddenly on 01 September it looks like they revert to their 2019 schedules. If I (and presumably others) cannot see a credible schedule, it makes one nervous that the probability of flights being cancelled is high, and much more reluctant to book at all
Other airlines seem to show much steadier increases in schedules, which inspires confidence that what they say they will fly, they actually will fly

[Gurnard]

In late June it was announced that an order for 92 737MAX and five 787s had been cancelled. Some 787s (SE-RXA/B/C) are awaiting delivery. Are they part of the cancelled order or not? Doesn't look as if long haul will be back this year in any case.

[VickersVicount]

Norwegian UK long haul pushed back to March 2021 now and Tampa dropped.

[BristolexFlyer]

Norwegian UK long haul pushed back to March 2021 now and Tampa dropped.

Is that correct? I thought flights were starting Dec?

What is your source can I ask?

Regards

BEF

[Playamar2]

VickersViscount. Are you reading the post on RoutesOnline. If you are, read it again as they are still starting in December 2020 and only BOS & SFO have been pushed back to March 2021.

[VickersVicount]

VickersViscount. Are you reading the post on RoutesOnline.
No. We'll see if they start eg SFO in the depths of a UK winter...
Norwegian Ditch All long haul until March 2021 (https://insideflyer.com/2020/04/norwegian-to-ditch-long-haul-flying-until-march-2021/)

[SWBKCB]

That article is from 27 April.

[Seljuk22]

Preliminary Trans-Atlantic operation on/after 28MAR21 as follows. Additional filing adjustment will be made in the next few weeks.

London Gatwick – Boston 4 weekly
London Gatwick – Los Angeles 5 weekly
London Gatwick – Miami 3 weekly
London Gatwick – New York JFK 1 daily
London Gatwick – Orlando 4 weekly
London Gatwick – San Francisco 4 weekly
London Gatwick – Tampa Service remain cancelled
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/292551/norwegian-air-uk-extends-preliminary-schedule-into-s21/

Should I understand all routes will be resumed as mentioned earlier in December but starting 28th March only ones listed above will be flown?
What about EZE, GIG, DEN, SEA?

Above mentioned program will only require 4 aircraft.

[Playamar2]

Vickersviscount your quoted article is 3 months old.
Norwegian posted their preliminary schedule for W20 commencing 9th Dec (RoutesOnline 17th July.). Today RoutesOnline posted a further update which was titled 'Extends preliminary schedule into S21'.
As Seljuk22 says only 4 aircraft required.

[davidjohnson6]

Norwegian are showing LGW-OSL operating 4x per week in August and then 3x daily in September. I find such an increase in schedule somewhat dubious, and I would take with a big pinch of salt, any planned longhaul LGW schedule that Norwegian might put on sale. This is an airline that recently had a near-death experience... they are still in a severely weakened state

[AirportPlanner1]

To be fair a lot of airlines are ramping up schedules in early September. BA, easy for example. Whether it happens or not is another matter

[Dannyboy39]

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/292551/norwegian-air-uk-extends-preliminary-schedule-into-s21/

Should I understand all routes will be resumed as mentioned earlier in December but starting 28th March only ones listed above will be flown?
What about EZE, GIG, DEN, SEA?

Above mentioned program will only require 4 aircraft.
Expensive to have a quarter of your 787 fleet doing nothing every day!

[USERNAME_]

https://onemileatatime.com/norwegian-air-run-out-of-money/

[CabinCrewe]

https://onemileatatime.com/norwegian-air-run-out-of-money/
Don't articles about that come out every quarter?

[davidjohnson6]

Similiar articles came out every quarter on AirBerlin for years

[Gurnard]

Even if these articles are repetitive by nature it's hard to see how Norwegian can survive. In its related companies are about 40 787s which (I believe) have all been grounded since March, thus earning no money. At the same time further new 787s are being delivered and stored. Loans and financial incentives all seem akin to pouring vast sums of money into a big black hole with the re-commencement of limited LH work still being some way off. Sympathies are with all employees affected by this.

[Alteagod]

It does all seem a bit of bag of rabbits at this stage or is it a box of frog's. As a furloughed groubd staff employee my heart goes out to all the staff.

[Gurnard]

Three new 787s have not been taken up by Norwegian but have flown to VCV for storage (G-CLJN & SE-RXA & SE-RXB).

[fanrailuk]

Things not looking too rosy at Norwegian:

Norwegian suffers body blow as government rules out more support (https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-norwegianair-government-idUKKBN27P0O8)

[Albert Hall]

"Norwegian Air has asked for billions of crowns in additional support and the government has concluded that this would not be a responsible use of public funds," Industry Minister Iselin Nyboe said.

Norwegian's response that they are Norwegian, called Norwegian and are part of Norway for 20 years rings rather hollow. Had they not gone off on the most outlandish of expansion sprees across Europe, USA, Argentina and so on, they might still be OK.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

If they are pointing out that they are are a Norwegian airline, then why do they have so many aircraft registered outside of Norway.
I have come across the following figures that might not be 100% accurate.
Found 110 aircraft registered, but less than a quarter under a Norwegian registration, total using a LN reg is 25.

[davidjohnson6]

Appeals to nationality by companies are usually reserved for desperate times. I've used them a lot over the years, but I really can't see how a company that struggled to be profitable in the boom years can survive in the very bad days we are in now

[southside bobby]

The void produced at LGW will prove to be very interesting if Norwegian collapse as BAW & EZY are in no position to acquire & utilize the slots...

Que WZZ/WUK.

[pabely]

If Norwegian do collapse it will be interesting what the Gatwick slots will be worth from what they used to exchange hands for.

[LGS6753]

https://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?c=setreg&region=2&m_id=s~T_mdT_Y!&w_id=38229&news_id=2045010

Further consolidations announced

[racedo]

If Norwegian do collapse it will be interesting what the Gatwick slots will be worth from what they used to exchange hands for.

Lots of Boeing aircraft possibly seeking a new home. Boeing now doubt would be keen to place with an existing Boeing operator they have history with whom they know will pay.

[insuindi]

Oslo Stock Exchange has suspended the trading of Norwegian shares for now. Some sort of statement expected from Norwegian apparently.

[davidjohnson6]

Bankruptcy filing in Ireland - or strictly speaking, they have sought examinership

[alm1]

That's not the main entity going bankrupt. They sent subsidiaries to bankrupcy before - like Norwegian Air Sweden. Now Norwegian Air International and some other. So that still not the end yet.

[davidjohnson6]

Alm1 - I admire your optimism, but historically when an airline has put a major subsidiary tbat owns a substantial number of assets (ie aircraft) into bankruptcy - not just a staffing company, it's extremely difficult to keep this isolated and prevent the rest of the company from being sucked into the black hole as well

Maybe the red noses will still be in the air at Xmas 2021, but they will have to fight very hard