Not much runway left.

[Ancient Mariner]

Fransisco B. Reyes, Busuanga Airport, Philippines. Skyjet BaE146-200. This March.
According to Wiki, the 146-200 requires:
Take off (SL/ISA) 1390m
Landing (SL/ISA) 1190m
Runway length 1200m, again according to Wiki.
Short, 50 mins hop to Manila, so probably not max weight, but temperature around 32C.
How does this go together? One of Skyjet's 146 has previously left that very runway at the far end while landing.
Sorry, don't know how to post the video, hence link only.
Good fun though, been a long time since last on a 146.
v=rMQtVtEZObo&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMQtVtEZObo&feature=youtu.be)
Per

[Hotel Tango]

I would assume that they are weight restricted to meet the required available runway length.

[RevMan2]

*This* is not much runway left....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=If-Puo94pWk

[DaveReidUK]

Runway length 1200m, again according to Wiki.
Short, 50 mins hop to Manila, so probably not max weight, but temperature around 32C.
How does this go together? One of Skyjet's 146 has previously left that very runway at the far end while landing.

The fact that an aircraft overran on landing has no bearing on takeoff performance.

Given that the B462 has a range of just under 2,000 nm, a 150 nm sector isn't going to require anything approaching MTOW.

[Harry Wayfarers]

Skyjet, whose real ID is Magnum Air, are becoming regulars at going off the end of runways, they wrote one off in to the Pacific Ocean a few years back and more recently have been off the end of the runways in Siargao and Coron.

Interesting take off and landing figures quotes because now Skyjet are to start operating in to Camiguin which according to Wiki has just a 1,202m runway ... Watch this space :)

[Duchess_Driver]

Without looking too hard at the figures are those the “distance” required or the ground run?

Distance is to/from screen height (35’) and ground run will be less. It is possible to have a ‘clearway’ At the end of the departure end in which there are no obstacles and this can be included in the “distance” available. Similarly for landing there may be a stopwatch available.

There are also safety factors to be applied - whatever is calculated is then multiplied by 1.25/1.43 in EASA so I would expect there would be something similar there.

Agree at first glance doesn’t look like much margin.

[Harry Wayfarers]

Without looking too hard at the figures are those the “distance” required or the ground run?

Distance is to/from screen height (35’) and ground run will be less. It is possible to have a ‘clearway’ At the end of the departure end in which there are no obstacles and this can be included in the “distance” available. Similarly for landing there may be a stopwatch available.

There are also safety factors to be applied - whatever is calculated is then multiplied by 1.25/1.43 in EASA so I would expect there would be something similar there.

Agree at first glance doesn’t look like much margin.

Duchess,

Here in the Philippines the smaller airports are quite literally jungle landing strips, no lights, the only navigational aid being the pilot's eyeballs, no fuel so they need to tanker fuel in, and on these extremely short runways, with no navigational aids, the BAe146 pilot needs to put it down pretty much right on the piano keys to stand any chance of stopping before the runway end.

Interesting though, my local airporet of Siargao, for years it could only accept ATR72's on one hour sectors, it took them 4 years to extend the runway by about the size of a postage stamp whilst Air Philippines, rather than Q400's, re-acquired some Q300's to compete, well besides Skyjet going off the end the Q300's are a distand memory and Air Philippines are putting Q400's in and out and on up to 2.5 hour sectors whilst ATR72's are now operating 2.5 sectors.

In the Philippines there is a saying ... "We can scratch it", i.e. whatever the rule book dictates they can add some.

[Ancient Mariner]

Visited Siargao last month, had booked tickets with Skyjet from Manila, but they cancelled the flight last November and promised me a refund within 30 to 60 days. As if.
Numerous emails, no replies, so I paid them a visit at NAIA 4 when back from Busuanga. Yes Sir, certainly Sir, at once Sir. Two weeks went by, no money. Dropped by again two weeks later returning from Bohol. Sorry Sir, no management available due national holiday. Fine, taxi down next morning, now slightly fed up, cash or proof of transfer, I'm not leaving before I have one or the other. Telephone calls in Tagalog, but finally, proof of transfer. They thanked me for my "kind understanding". Yeah, right.
Too bad, I like 146s.
Per

[Harry Wayfarers]

Visited Siargao last month, had booked tickets with Skyjet from Manila, but they cancelled the flight last November and promised me a refund within 30 to 60 days. As if.
Numerous emails, no replies, so I paid them a visit at NAIA 4 when back from Busuanga. Yes Sir, certainly Sir, at once Sir. Two weeks went by, no money. Dropped by again two weeks later returning from Bohol. Sorry Sir, no management available due national holiday. Fine, taxi down next morning, now slightly fed up, cash or proof of transfer, I'm not leaving before I have one or the other. Telephone calls in Tagalog, but finally, proof of transfer. They thanked me for my "kind understanding". Yeah, right.
Too bad, I like 146s.
Per

And Skyjet kept their PHP150 web admin fee for cancelling my flight ... "What part of FULL refund do these people not understand?"

And PAL, not only do they charge PHP2,300 per sector cancellation fee if you self-cancel but they rarely refund the remainder even though the say they will, when booking with PAL and Cebu Air I always pay by PayPal for the added protection ... At least Cebu Air refund an unused terminal fee if you request them to.

[Doors to Automatic]

Without looking too hard at the figures are those the “distance” required or the ground run?

Distance is to/from screen height (35’) and ground run will be less. It is possible to have a ‘clearway’ At the end of the departure end in which there are no obstacles and this can be included in the “distance” available.

How is this calculated to ensure that the wheels are still on tarmac when the aircraft becomes airborne?

[Harry Wayfarers]

How is this calculated to ensure that the wheels are still on tarmac when the aircraft becomes airborne?

Skyjet had plenty of 'clearway' at the end!


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/400x400/1376593_762743427088634_1153950808_n_c637ec020727e7ab1862b15 132a41b9d33713b94.jpg

[maxerion]

The published runway length for an aircraft is only at certain standard conditions and configuration, generally at the structure limited takeoff weight and standard atmosphere.

If the company is operating proper, they have a whole book full of takeoff and landing tables developed from the manufacturer test pilots and engineers. These tables provide a maximum weight for a specific flight and account for both wing and engine performance considering: runway length, obstacle clearance, temperature[possibly humidity], headwind or tailwind, gross takeoff weight, equipment settings and condition[anti skid brake system, anti-ice bleed air], brake cooling times [to handle aborted takeoffs], altitude and barometric pressure adjustments, and runway surface condition[wet, dry, snow, grooved, porous, gravel...].

Then you also have special takeoff configurations, mainly no flaps or partial flaps, one will have a better climb gradient for obstacles beyond the runway and the other will lift off at a lower speed to minimize the needed pavement.

[Harry Wayfarers]

The published runway length for an aircraft is only at certain standard conditions and configuration, generally at the structure limited takeoff weight and standard atmosphere.

If the company is operating proper, they have a whole book full of takeoff and landing tables developed from the manufacturer test pilots and engineers. These tables provide a maximum weight for a specific flight and account for both wing and engine performance considering: runway length, obstacle clearance, temperature[possibly humidity], headwind or tailwind, gross takeoff weight, equipment settings and condition[anti skid brake system, anti-ice bleed air], brake cooling times [to handle aborted takeoffs], altitude and barometric pressure adjustments, and runway surface condition[wet, dry, snow, grooved, porous, gravel...].

Then you also have special takeoff configurations, mainly no flaps or partial flaps, one will have a better climb gradient for obstacles beyond the runway and the other will lift off at a lower speed to minimize the needed pavement.

That's all very well but when the same operator of only 4 aircraft makes a habit of going off the end of runways, 3 incidents so far including one write off, whilst the authority sit back and do nothing .....

[Tech Guy]

*This* is not much runway left....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=If-Puo94pWk

Ahhh..........."The Vodka burner is rolling".
Classic.