Climb via the SID...

[medflyer]

A recent scenario: on the ground in LAX we were given the LADYJ SID (that has a top altitude of 8000’) with the amended stipulation “climb via the SID except maintain 5000’”. No problem.

On departure we were switched to SOCAL departure who acknowledged our check on and said “climb via the SID”. I was expecting to hear an altitude along with the clearance otherwise I assume the 5000’ is still governing...the approaching mountains of Santa Monica were enough to get me to double check however.

The condescending tone of the controller telling to climb to 8000 VIA THE SID gave me the “argh should’ve known that” feeling, but it is still unnerving climbing without a clearly restated altitude when you know you are crossing the arrival paths of heavies on the arrival. I thought the altitude was usually restated in both Climb Via and Climb and Maintain clearances. Guess I learned something. Thoughts?

[havick]

A recent scenario: on the ground in LAX we were given the LADYJ SID (that has a top altitude of 8000’) with the amended stipulation “climb via the SID except maintain 5000’”. No problem.

On departure we were switched to SOCAL departure who acknowledged our check on and said “climb via the SID”. I was expecting to hear an altitude along with the clearance otherwise I assume the 5000’ is still governing...the approaching mountains of Santa Monica were enough to get me to double check however.

The condescending tone of the controller telling to climb to 8000 VIA THE SID gave me the “argh should’ve known that” feeling, but it is still unnerving climbing without a clearly restated altitude when you know you are crossing the arrival paths of heavies on the arrival. I thought the altitude was usually restated in both Climb Via and Climb and Maintain clearances. Guess I learned something. Thoughts?

Doesn’t really make sense. If they gave you climb via the sid except maintain 5000’, then 5000’ is the new limiting height unless someone else along the way re-clears you higher.

sure you weren’t given higher somewhere else along the way? I would’ve done the same thing at 5000’ if I hadn’t been told otherwise.

[medflyer]

No clearance for higher was specifically given. It was implied that Climb Via meant the 5000 was no longer valid and we should go to 8000 with no further explanation necessary. That’s how it is on Descend Via on a STAR, so it makes sense, but somehow the stakes felt higher with crossing traffic above!

[B-757]

A recent scenario: on the ground in LAX we were given the LADYJ SID (that has a top altitude of 8000’) with the amended stipulation “climb via the SID except maintain 5000’”. No problem.

On departure we were switched to SOCAL departure who acknowledged our check on and said “climb via the SID”. I was expecting to hear an altitude along with the clearance otherwise I assume the 5000’ is still governing...the approaching mountains of Santa Monica were enough to get me to double check however.

The condescending tone of the controller telling to climb to 8000 VIA THE SID gave me the “argh should’ve known that” feeling, but it is still unnerving climbing without a clearly restated altitude when you know you are crossing the arrival paths of heavies on the arrival. I thought the altitude was usually restated in both Climb Via and Climb and Maintain clearances. Guess I learned something. Thoughts?
..Climb via the SID means you follow all restrictions according to the profile, until reaching ATC-assigned altitude..Very common procedure
at the big airports worldwide..If in doubt, ask..

Fly safe,
B-757

[Flyer1015]

A recent scenario: on the ground in LAX we were given the LADYJ SID (that has a top altitude of 8000’) with the amended stipulation “climb via the SID except maintain 5000’”. No problem.

On departure we were switched to SOCAL departure who acknowledged our check on and said “climb via the SID”. I was expecting to hear an altitude along with the clearance otherwise I assume the 5000’ is still governing...the approaching mountains of Santa Monica were enough to get me to double check however.

The condescending tone of the controller telling to climb to 8000 VIA THE SID gave me the “argh should’ve known that” feeling, but it is still unnerving climbing without a clearly restated altitude when you know you are crossing the arrival paths of heavies on the arrival. I thought the altitude was usually restated in both Climb Via and Climb and Maintain clearances. Guess I learned something. Thoughts?


We were given training on this when these climb/descend via the SID/STARs first came out. Once you get a "climb via SID" you are cleared up to the published top altitude of the SID and follow all fixes and altitude restrictions while you go to that top altitude. LAX typically does say just, "climb via the SID" so go ahead and put the top altitude of the SID next time.

Also at LAX, watch out for many SIDs that have a speed restriction "maintain 250 knots until advised by ATC." No shortage of ASAP reports with crews accelerating above 250 knots passing 10k, only to be yelled at by controllers.

[tomuchwork]

A recent scenario: on the ground in LAX we were given the LADYJ SID (that has a top altitude of 8000’) with the amended stipulation “climb via the SID except maintain 5000’”. No problem.

On departure we were switched to SOCAL departure who acknowledged our check on and said “climb via the SID”. I was expecting to hear an altitude along with the clearance otherwise I assume the 5000’ is still governing...the approaching mountains of Santa Monica were enough to get me to double check however.

The condescending tone of the controller telling to climb to 8000 VIA THE SID gave me the “argh should’ve known that” feeling, but it is still unnerving climbing without a clearly restated altitude when you know you are crossing the arrival paths of heavies on the arrival. I thought the altitude was usually restated in both Climb Via and Climb and Maintain clearances. Guess I learned something. Thoughts?



Unfortunately controllers(seems to be on both sides of the big pond to be the same) give you a clearance, sometimes change it , forget about it. For sure often they do NOT forward it to the next sector(or even the guy/gal sitting next to them). Over here in Europe we have MANY departures which require AT points(UK being one of the worst in this regard). Now, they clear you higher and IF you bother to ask as a proper aviator not once I heard that reply in annoyed tone - "climb NOW to....." as a confirmation.But hey, if you bust a level then you get that teacher tone reply like "you have been cleared STAR/SID AND profile") We pilots do NOT make the rules, we normally obey them.

I usually do the same as you do, I keep asking them(even assuming they ment climb NOW). They are only humans and do many mistakes(as we do but we have the advantage in having a backup on the flightdeck), sometimes they even admit it and say "thanks" if you ask.