Jabiru down Wagga

[bentleg]

Channel 7 just reported a Jabiru made forced landing at Wagga, fire followed destroying aircraft,, occupants self evacuated, minor injuries. RAA aircraft as RAA investigating.

[Squawk7700]

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6081152/canberra-man-lucky-to-be-alive-after-burning-plane-crashes-at-airport/?cs=14225#slide=4

Geez there isn’t much left of it!

I wonder what type of battery it had fitted.

[Sunfish]

Earthx Lithium’s have a battery management system that should allow the unit to fail gracefully. In any case they use safe chemistry. We don’t know the cause of the fire anyway.

[Squawk7700]

Earthx Lithium’s have a battery management system that should allow the unit to fail gracefully. In any case they use safe chemistry. We don’t know the cause of the fire anyway.

Relevance? What does EarthX have to do with this?

A Jabiru burning to the ground is a rare event. I know of two in 20 years. One was a bushfire and the other was a lithium battery. With the battery on the outside of the stainless steel firewall and heat shielded fuel hose, there is effectively no fuel source for a fire to keep going. Shorts on the inside whilst rare, rarely result in more than a spark or some smoke before the circuit breaker trips out.

It would not surprise me if they had a lithium battery fitted and had possibly just jump-started it and or used one of those jump-starter packs like the one that popped and fizzed and blew up the car in Sydney a couple of weeks ago, where the woman was lucky to get her two children out before it exploded.

https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/occurrence-briefs/2018/aviation/ab-2018-124/

[Sunfish]

What has Earthx batteries got to do with this? Read your quoted ATSB report. That battery was a Deltran LiFePo unit.

The Earthx hundred series is specifically designed for aviation use(not TSO’D but accepted by Rotax) with dual battery management systems and a fault indication alarm. It has overcharging protection built in although a crowbar circuit is recommended as well. Unless you are an idiot, wire your aircraft so that charging can be shut down.

As far as I can tell, the Deltran unit involved in the first Jab incident has none of this. Furthermore a straight swap of lead acid for lithium without analysis of the electrical system is not a good idea.

[Squawk7700]

But that report is for a different aircraft. You are all over the place Sunfish.

[Sunfish]

??? You raised Jabirus and Lithium batteries, not me.

[Squawk7700]

??? You raised Jabirus and Lithium batteries, not me.

Ummmm, no I didn’t. Not until you started on about them.

[Capt Fathom]

Come on you two, get a room!

[Squawk7700]

I’ve got a tent tonight thanks. Too busy out flying and camping and enjoying myself and not worrying about the CASA boogie men.

[First_Principal]

I see the report states the battery is a "Deltran 330 Lithium-ion Phosphate battery", and goes on to note some issues with the battery that occurred since the operator ran it flat.

I'm struggling to find much detail on these batteries, and another site suggests that a Deltran 330 may not be LiFePO4 chemistry. Unfortunately the report is rather light on the details too so without anything concrete I'm left questioning the conclusion they've reached at this stage.

In general I've understood that the LiFePO4 derivatives are a rather more benign Lithium-Ion battery than the polymer types, and that they can withstand a reasonable degree of abuse (although I've not research this latter issue in depth, I tend to look after my batteries!). Moreover they're unlikely to catch fire on their own account.

Because the published outcome of this accident runs contrary to the advice I've had to date (and because I have a number of LiFePO4 batteries in use myself, and further advise their use to others in certain situations) I wonder if anyone is able to enlighten us on the exact battery make/model that was used in this unfortunate Jabiru, and/or any specific detail on the [purported] battery in use?

Thanks, FP.

[Slatye]

I see the report states the battery is a "Deltran 330 Lithium-ion Phosphate battery", and goes on to note some issues with the battery that occurred since the operator ran it flat.That's a report for an older incident; it does not apply to the recent one in Wagga. However, the report does raise an awful lot of questions - to begin with, the only "Deltran 330" battery I can find is lead-acid (the lithium ones are 300 or 360).

LiFePO4 batteries can handle a decent amount of abuse (I've completely flattened one in a radio control system, but it still works OK) and their failure modes tend to be benign (they just refuse to hold a charge). I've seen videos of people stabbing them with a screwdriver, with no catastrophic failure. LiPo or Li-Ion are definitely a different kettle of fish, because the failure mode is "catch on fire" - I would definitely be reluctant to fly with one of those in a location that I can't access during flight, especially when it's already seen significant abuse (Australian weather, charging from a possibly-overcharging alternator, and a complete discharge).

[First_Principal]

Exactly, hence my puzzlement/enquiry.

Somewhere I'm fairly sure I saw a short clip of a LiFePO4 battery being shot without much effect - guess you could say they're almost bulletproof :E