ATPL exams failure

[GoutGnafier]

Hi everybody,

I would like to share my story, it may helping some of you, also, it's helping me to release negative feelings.

I did pass 13 exams in 5 sittings (84.5% average), where I have failed Operational procedures at the 5th sitting at 71%. I let a gap of 6 weeks between my 5th and last sitting to work on this particular subject where I have reached an average mark of 94% on 795 questions from my school's QB.

So I used my 6th sitting to attempt it again, and unfortunately, I have failed again with a lower mark than the first attempt 68%, incredible.

You all know what it means... I have tried everything to make an appeal about questions (5 exactly) which the wording was for me uncertain and confusing (as same for my school's instructor), and for what I have no reason to doubt during my revisions (these 5 questions were about ditching and icing).

They have rejected my appeal, and I am desperately trying to get an oral hearing as it's allowed by the CAA's regulation. I have also reported my misunderstanding to the EASA level, if I can get something from them, who knows?..

I would like to know of some of you guys passed through the same experience and what were you deciding then, for me, I am ready to drop it at 90% if I don't have a positive outcome from the appeal, even if I already have my CPL IR/ME from a non EASA country (where I definitely cannot work). It so much **** since, I am dejected and angry, because I don't see what should I do more (and I am not just an QB hitter, for some guys who may potentially think that they are smarter than anyone else).

Have a good day everybody,
Cheers,

Matt

[Contact Approach]

You need to pass the 14 exams within 6 sittings. That's quite clear. You haven't done so so I'm not sure complaining will do very much. You now either start again or choose something else to do. Getting an average mark of 94% on the BGS QB means absolutely nothing as far as the exams go.

Sorry if that sounds sharp and it's unfortunate that you didn't succeed but the standard is there for a reason.

CA

[Jolax]

Sorry to hear your situation mate.
But imho, you cannot do nothing more stupid than dropping.
Time management is everything.
Take a break, think about it and start over. Try to complete the exams in 3 or 4 sittings.
Good luck!!
​​​

[custardpsc]

Just a thought but you could consider resitting in Poland - that at least gives some flexibility about getting the subjects that you are ok at all done in a hurry ?

https://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/599371-atpl-exams-under-polish-caa-3.html

[Black Pudding]

Hi everybody,

I would like to share my story, it may helping some of you, also, it's helping me to release negative feelings.

I did pass 13 exams in 5 sittings (84.5% average), where I have failed Operational procedures at the 5th sitting at 71%. I let a gap of 6 weeks between my 5th and last sitting to work on this particular subject where I have reached an average mark of 94% on 795 questions from my school's QB.

So I used my 6th sitting to attempt it again, and unfortunately, I have failed again with a lower mark than the first attempt 68%, incredible.

You all know what it means... I have tried everything to make an appeal about questions (5 exactly) which the wording was for me uncertain and confusing (as same for my school's instructor), and for what I have no reason to doubt during my revisions (these 5 questions were about ditching and icing).

They have rejected my appeal, and I am desperately trying to get an oral hearing as it's allowed by the CAA's regulation. I have also reported my misunderstanding to the EASA level, if I can get something from them, who knows?..

I would like to know of some of you guys passed through the same experience and what were you deciding then, for me, I am ready to drop it at 90% if I don't have a positive outcome from the appeal, even if I already have my CPL IR/ME from a non EASA country (where I definitely cannot work). It so much **** since, I am dejected and angry, because I don't see what should I do more (and I am not just an QB hitter, for some guys who may potentially think that they are smarter than anyone else).

Have a good day everybody,
Cheers,

Matt

Can you please explain exactly how many sittings you originally planned to do the 14 exams. How many exams have you had to resit and how many times

[brocken_spectre]

I’ve heard rumours that you’re able to move to AustroControl and take your passes with you, but I’m not sure how accurate that is.

Might be worth looking into...

[GoutGnafier]

You need to pass the 14 exams within 6 sittings. That's quite clear. You haven't done so so I'm not sure complaining will do very much. You now either start again or choose something else to do. Getting an average mark of 94% on the BGS QB means absolutely nothing as far as the exams go.

Sorry if that sounds sharp and it's unfortunate that you didn't succeed but the standard is there for a reason.

CA

Don’t be confused about what I am trying to explain. I am not complaining, I appealed my exams outcome because, the questions that seems to be confusing (and not only me, school’s instructors as well) I was not able to find a correct regulation, law, etc.. from UK CAA or EASA sources which may explain why I was wrong (I can share those questions if you wish so).

Also, as I am guessing that you have your exams done, I would like to know what did you refer to attempt to an exam? As I said in my initial post, I wasn’t a QB hitter, but it represents at least if you are ready or not. And with 94%, I don’t understand what can I do more to be ready for an exam.

[GoutGnafier]

Sorry to hear your situation mate.
But imho, you cannot do nothing more stupid than dropping.
Time management is everything.
Take a break, think about it and start over. Try to complete the exams in 3 or 4 sittings.
Good luck!!
​​​

Thank you for your support, I appreciate it, i don’t know if you passed through the same thing, but in any case, thanks.

[GoutGnafier]

Just a thought but you could consider resitting in Poland - that at least gives some flexibility about getting the subjects that you are ok at all done in a hurry


Thanks for your idea, i will consider it and will contact Polish CAA to check it.

[GoutGnafier]

Can you please explain exactly how many sittings you originally planned to do the 14 exams. How many exams have you had to resit and how many times

To be honest, I wasn’t aware about the 6 sittings rules until my 3rd attempt.

To explain quickly:

1st sitting:

Failure on HPL, Met, Instrumentation (totally on me, I wasn’t ready as good as I expected)

Passed Gen Nav




2nd sitting:

Passed HPL, Met, Instrumentation




3 rd sitting:

Passed Aircraft General Knowledge and Air Law

Failure on Radio nav (the new regulation about PBN screwed me)




4th sitting:

Passed Radio Nav, IFR/VFR com, Mass and balance,




5th sitting:

Passed POF, Flight Planning, Performance,

Failure on Ops




6th sitting:

Failure on Ops.

[flybyschool]

I’ve heard rumours that you’re able to move to AustroControl and take your passes with you, but I’m not sure how accurate that is.

Might be worth looking into...

you cannot take passes from one authority to another

wr are a flight school from Spain and just switched from Spanish AESA to AustroControl

i would recommend not to give up and retake all subjects!

regards

[ersa]

Matt,

Not a good outcome, inevitable you need to resit the exams , all over.

The comprehension of the questions , is part of the learning outcome, not just choosing the right answer.

Good luck with your appeals, but put your energy in to re-sitting the exams very soon.

[GoutGnafier]

I am going to explain the confusing questions:

1. What is the correct configuration in case of ditching?
Gear: up or down Flaps: up or down
Only one reference found on skylibrary .com, none on any lessons from my school or UK CAA or EASA sources

2. What is the best course of action in case of emergency and no other options than ditching?
- Maintain the aircraft control
- Keep radio contact to let know your position and needs
- Ensure passenger’s safety
- Last one irrelevant so I didn’t even consider it

3. Who is responsible in case in problems in De-icing procedures on ground in out base?
- Airport authority
- De icing operator
- Operator
- Airport national authority

It’s 3 of the 5 about I am appealing.

Cheers

Matt

[superflanker]

Sorry to hear that, If it was me, I would retake all 14, perhaps trying to take 7 exams or so in a sitting.

About the questions, the first 2 I'm sorry but I think they are basic PPL stuff... (at least if you had a good PPL instructor!)

1- Gear up, flaps down. You want to take as slow as possible to take minimum damage, and the gear down could cause unwanted effects.
2- CONTROL THE AIRCRAFT!!!!!

Good luck!

[GoutGnafier]

Sorry to hear that, If it was me, I would retake all 14, perhaps trying to take 7 exams or so in a sitting.

About the questions, the first 2 I'm sorry but I think they are basic PPL stuff... (at least if you had a good PPL instructor!)

1- Gear up, flaps down. You want to take as slow as possible to take minimum damage, and the gear down could cause unwanted effects.
2- CONTROL THE AIRCRAFT!!!!!

Good luck!

Thanks for your message, I get your point.

I have learnt emergency landing somewhere else than Europe, and in case of, it’s better to don’t use the flaps, we should not use them or at the very last to increase the gliding time to have enough time to take the best decision.
I am not saying is wrong, just it can be confusing.

And for the second question you mentioned, I was confuse with “no other options than ditching”, it can be taught that all other options have been processed and no one was good, so now you are sure to crash on water, for me, I let know as much people as I can do my position because if you survive a crash, your surviving time depends on the time spent in the water.

Thanks

[superflanker]

I have learnt emergency landing somewhere else than Europe, and in case of, it’s better to don’t use the flaps, we should not use them or at the very last to increase the gliding time to have enough time to take the best decision.


I mean full flaps when you are sure you are going to reach the field where you decided to dich. If you are trying to reach a distant field/runway of course you should keep the aircraft clean in order to increase your gliding distance.

From skybary.aero (https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Ditching:_Fixed_Wing_Aircraft#Considerations_and_Techniques_ for_Ditching_a_Fixed_Wing_Aircraft):

Configuration - Gear. Gear up is the optimum configuration for ditching.
Configuration - Flap. Most manufacturers recommend the maximum deployment of available slats/flaps is desirable to minimise approach speed. However, judgement is required in this respect since an intermediate flap setting is likely to improve forward visibility and reduce the amount of rotation required to flare in return for some increase in airspeed. Without some or all engines functioning, there may be limited hydraulic power.

Cheers!

[TheEdge]

To be honest, I wasn’t aware about the 6 sittings rules until my 3rd attempt.




That does explain enough...how the hell you did not know this ??

[GoutGnafier]

I mean full flaps when you are sure you are going to reach the field where you decided to dich. If you are trying to reach a distant field/runway of course you should keep the aircraft clean in order to increase your gliding distance.


Configuration - Gear. Gear up is the optimum configuration for ditching.
Configuration - Flap. Most manufacturers recommend the maximum deployment of available slats/flaps is desirable to minimise approach speed. However, judgement is required in this respect since an intermediate flap setting is likely to improve forward visibility and reduce the amount of rotation required to flare in return for some increase in airspeed. Without some or all engines functioning, there may be limited hydraulic power.

Cheers!

This is exactly the source I found after my exam. Unfortunately, I didn’t have this in my course or any question referring to it in my QB. I am not saying at all that you are wrong, just the question may be confusing. As ATPL Instructors told me, the flap setting may be at the captain’s discretion. Also, as it figured in Ops, I was looking for regulation or something like that, and it’s only on manufacturer recommendations. I know I am picky and sorry for that, but at this point, it’s only small details.

[GoutGnafier]

That does explain enough...how the hell you did not know this ??

Yes I agree, actually, I am already a commercial pilot with ME/IR from a non EASA country where the rules are slightly different. So I guess my school didn’t talk to me about because I was already a graduated pilot and think I was aware of. It was not a case without following up Students, it gives this poor outcome...

[youngretired]

It’s a very brave decision to not be a qb hitter. I am a humble qb hitter and hit hard ops in two days and took 97 from it, in Poland. Just get up, sign a new contract a cheaper polish ato (there are offers starting from 950€), spend five more months on distance education and have all your marks in three months/sitting.
Or spend half of this time complaining around.

[GoutGnafier]

It’s a very brave decision to not be a qb hitter. I am a humble qb hitter and hit hard ops in two days and took 97 from it, in Poland. Just get up, sign a new contract a cheaper polish ato (there are offers starting from 950€), spend five more months on distance education and have all your marks in three months/sitting.
Or spend half of this time complaining around.

Don’t be affected about what I am saying man.
I don’t want to be unpleasant with anybody.
I am just sharing my experience and check if people passed through the same experience (Or not, doesn’t matter) and what they did about that and get some tips from them.

Good for you if you have done enough work hitting your QB, I didn’t make it even working the lessons in addition the QB, so.

Thanks for the tip regarding a Polish ATO, you aren’t the first one to talk about that, so I really consider it.

And find any post where I am complaining?
if it means looking for explanations is complaining, so of course I am doing it.

Cheers

[Black Pudding]

6 sittings or 4 attempts, whichever comes first.

You should plan to do all 14 in either 2 or 3 sittings. If you fail an exam, leave it until you have sat your second sitting to see if you fail any of them, then use sitting 3 to try and pass those you failed using a second attempt (3rd sitting)

[Hawker400]

Look for the ATPL theory group on Facebook. There was someone in the same situation as you. Study again and just do it. The guy i mentioned redid it all in one sitting. Don't let it get to you.

[parkfell]

You seem to have been unlucky. Strike while the iron is still hot.

A bit of fine tuning with exam technique and you will be fine. Plan to sit ALL exams in the first two sittings.

Try CAT 3C for an intense brush up