Faa Cpl/ir

[llesson]

Just been looking at Flight safety website and they offer the FAA CPL/IR but no instructor ratings etc. I know you need the 1500hrs to get your ATPL in the US but what can you actually fly just on an FAA CPL/IR!!!!!

[Freak On A Leash]

What the CPL/IR does is that it basically opens the door to getting paid as a pilot.Under part 61 of the FARs you need 250 hours to be able to go for the commercial checkride.Under part 141 you can get away with just under 200 hours.Your certificates will be equal in value, it just comes down to whether you`ve got all the time in the world (read; want to take the fast-track) or you have i.e. a day job,family and such.
The next step up is to fly under part 135.To be hired for VFR operations you`ll need 500 hours, and for IFR it`s 1200.There are also sub-requirements to both such as crosscountry, night and instrument time.
As you can see there is quite a bit of flying to be done before you can go to part 135.And here`s what you can do; get an instructor certificate (preferrably with instrument and multiengine ratings) because that is the quickest way to get the hours, pluss you`ll get to know a lot of people, and the industry is greatly based on "it`s who you know";)
You can also try bannerflying, parachutejumper-flying and some kind of aerial patroling (pipelines,forrestfire watch...).And you could get a job ferrying airplanes - but that`s a long shot due to insurance requirements and so on.
You`ll probably be overqualified to be a drugrunner - they don`t require your ability to LAND an airplane:D

[llesson]

Thanks Freak, guess an ATPL is the way forward!!!!

[mattpilot]

personally i do believe there is a difference between Part 61 and Part 141 training. Part 61 is training between you and any instructor. Part 141 is structured and is preferred by potential employers. Especially if the school has a good reputation.

[Wiggums]

In the US employers don't care if you've done 61 or 141 training. A CPL or ATP is the same no matter what school you go to. The only advantage a certian school can give you is if they have a bridge program with an airline, however, these don't work so well in the current economic conditions.

[mattpilot]

Wiggums.. what do you base that on?

I'm really curious cause i already spent lots of money in a part 141 school. With the same money i could of gotten 4 times as far part 61. So if ya got any thing to back that on i'd appreciate it.

I've been told by delta pilots and other good friends that employers prefer part 141. I'm sure they couldn't care less what you have, but if your part 141 grad, and the other guy applying is part 61, then your gonna get the job. No?

And i'm sure your theory might have been true when the economy was good. But now that employers have a broad selection, dont you think the would prefer people who have a aviation degree and been trained at a 'structured' school?

[llesson]

so guess its not like here in the uk, where u can get your CPL/IR, 300 hours and get an airline job???

[mattpilot]

nope - not with an airline - they did once hire pilots with as little as 250 hours, but that was when there was a major shortage.

Obviously, you could only be second in command.


@wiggums

.. adding to my last post...

i've been thinking about finishing the IR at this 141 school and then doing commercial part 61 - then go back to 141 and finish my degree (afterall, you do need a degree to get hired in the US).

So any info on your "theory" would help. I could save roughly 8000 USD doing it Part 61. :o

Oh, and i was wondering what ratings you have + hours and if ya dont mind me asking, what job.

[slim_slag]

During the "major shortage" last year, you would generally need 1000 hours total time, 100 multi to get into a RHS in a commuter operation.

The exception that proved the rule was Mesa (http://www.flightcareers.com) who would hire into the RHS with as little as 300 TT. I don't know of any other programs like this in the States, maybe back East. Even so, most Mesa recruits would still go the longer CP/CFI route.

To get into a major, 2500 TT with 1000 hours turbine PIC wasn't unusual. Each airline would differ, but it was in that sort of ballpark.

You didn't need a degree to get into the commuters, almost 100% required for a job with a major, but not quite. You should definitely get one though.

[mattpilot]

the local part 141 school here has a listing of jobs available (mainly part 135), and 95% of them require a 2 year degree (simply called an associates degree). Majors do require their applicants to have at least a 4 year degree (that would be a bachelor degree). Yes i know, a 2 year degree isn't really a 'degree', but they call it that :)

[Freak On A Leash]

What some peolpe do is enrolling under part 141, and then go part 61 for their commerial (after completing the private and instrument).The main reason for this is that it makes more economical sense if their total time is expected to reach/pass the 250 hours required under part 61 - meaning that they haven`t been able to stay on track with their 141 syllabus.

141 vs 61... yes it is tricky, and yes they both have you ending up with the same certificates and ratings, equal in value.I guess some employers prefer candidates who have gone through the 141 program due to its structure - thereby showing that they can survive (for lack of better words) in such an environment.But I also think that the employers respect the fact that not everybody has the time/money to get their ratings all at once, and that`s where part 61 comes in.It`s all a matter of preference and I`m certain that not all employers think the same way.

If you goal is to get in with the majors then a degree is your best bet, albeit a ton of flying experience (multi,turbine etc) is a good counterweight to this.I don`t know about you guys, but if I were an employer I would prefer the guy with the experience rather than the guy coming straight out of college with maybe 1200 hours.It all boils down to; would you like to have a person who knows a lot of theory about the real-world or one that has experience from the real world.

Really getting out of thread here, but if you`re thinking about starting a career in aviation and want to "get it on" then part 141 is the way to go - quicker and cheaper:)
And llesson, you`re from the UK?Then one of the requirements for the J-1 visa is that you enroll in a 141 program.

[llesson]

Im not sure if you do need college degrees to get pilot jobs. Ive spoke to several Continental first officers in my time @ LGW who only had high school eduction before the went to flight school!!!

[Wiggums]

mattpilot: I think that you're on the right track. Part 141 is not worth an extra $8000. By the time you accumulate the 1200+ hours needed for an airline or 135 job in the US nobody will care where you did your training. Getting a college degree will be much more important.

The best thing to do in this job market is to complete your flight instructor training at a school that will hire you. It's difficult for a CFI with zero experience to find work right now.

To answer your question, I am a flight instructor with 1000+ hours.

llesson: Yes, the US is different. It typically takes 1200+ hours to get an airline job. If you want to fly for a major airline you'll need at least twice that amount.