In the airlines, whats the hardest part of the work?

[AluminBird]

I hope I am posting in the right place!

I'm nearly forty with a wife and child. I've given up a great career in favour of one as an airline pilot and want to be prepared as much as possible for the challenges it will present to me, other than the obvious part of flying the aircraft.

I'm hoping to hear your personal opinion on where you feel the hard work really is as an ATP. We are all passionate about the best parts, but where does the energy drain really occur?

Is it dealing with stewardesses? Automation - (are we all control freaks)?! The toilets!?! Health issues?! The hours? Repetition? Your bosses? Delays?

I am aiming for Regional and Short Haul.....

Thank you!

[rotordisk]

Definitely the working hours/ earlies /lates /jetlag / not being home when you want to..
That all depends on your company/fleet though.

Been flying for 4 years and the job is still just real fun for me. I'm always relaxed.
Most of the work is definitely on the ground, especially when dealing with delays/technicals/pax trouble etc but you grow into managing it.
Once up there, it can get a bit boring sometimes. I have seen some people doing nothing in cruise for hours, it's something I can't do but to each his own way of killing time.

Sometimes it really comes down to who you are with, be it in the cockpit or downroute. The right people can make any day really enjoyable and relaxing.

[clvf88]

When you're at work, I think the job is great. I've never really had any major complaints.

For me the biggest issue is lifestyle. Unless you are on a fixed roster pattern, planning to do anything in the future becomes a nightmare. I just had to book a weeks annual leave just so I could book a track day I was given for christmas. Its also very hard to keep up with friends and family as plans need to be made a long time in advance, often of days of the week that don't suit most. Once you've missed several 'events' people just stop asking you. Unless your friends are in the industry they find it all very hard to understand.

I still like my job, and am not considering a change, but I'm suprised to say I do fantasize about being back in a nice office, working 0830-1800, home everynight with every weekend off.

[wiggy]

Agree very much with the two previous posts...you get all the "fun" and satisfaction of poor weather, delays, cancellations, disruptions etc.....your family don't....I'm afraid after a few weeks your tales of daring deeds, Cat 2/3 ILS's and just how you nailed it landing in a crosswind was will pale into significance when compared with the broken car/dishwasher/child.:ooh:...

If you are moving from a career with a stable "roster"/shift/working pattern then your social/family life is going to experience signifcant change - be ready for it...

.

[bex88]

The destruction of your social life, your ability to be there for your family and the continual grind of short haul work. Delays that eat into the little time you have at home are common. For me the challenge is my own mental health. My wife no longer works to ensure we do get time together and I am lucky to have a strong family at home. I think if it broke my family then it would break me and I would be done.

[babemagnet]

The hardest thing in aviation is working with small people. They have to overcompensate because of there lenght. A real nightmare. Stay away from small people in aviation!

[Cazalet33]

Taxying at an unfamiliar airfield;

at night;

in the rain.


(Especially with an over-confident 1,500 hr **** in the right-hand seat who thinks he knows it all.)

[macdo]

By far and away the biggest hassle is the constant tension between work and social/family life. The best mitigation is part time and planning to retire as early as you are able. The aggravating factors depend on the airline, but poor rostering, inefficient leave systems, commuting, sleep management, job insecurity, stress around sim/medicals and poor management are all to be considered.

I have rarely met a pilot who doesn't enjoy the job between doors closed and doors opening, but I have met some who find any of the above factors unbearable.

Perhaps, it is a career most suited to single people!

[macdo]

Oh! I forgot, Security, the damn security,LoL

[TowerDog]

Night flying long haul. Jet lag, always tired.
Most of the fellow cockpit crews are nice people, 90%, then there is 5% weirdos and 5% arseholes.
makes for a long day to fly with the last 5%..
The weird ones can be entertaining: Flew with a guy who strapped a gun to his hip, a clip board to his right thigh, a table napkin to protect his pants from the pesky seat belt, a torch (flash light) dangling from a string around his neck and finally white gloves for hand flying.
Quite a sight, but nice guy, a bit paranoid perhaps and taking no chances in this world.
F/As can be a mixed bag, some are nice and mature, some are drama queens, of both sexes.
I much prefer flying cargo and was lucky to work for an airline that had both pax and cargo kites.

[Meester proach]

Having no social life and very few friends, as most I made in aviation buggered off to the sand lands.
dealing with sketchy handling that can’t/ won’t provide anything .
falling asleep in the car on the way home .

[Priority Club]

Hardest thing for me is getting called out of standby at 6pm for a 2-sector 2-crew night turn and trying to land at 8am having being on duty for 12 hours and awake for nearly 24 hrs.

Otherwise the hardest bit is keeping fatigue at bay and finding time to do all those things which work gets in the way of: eating healthily, exercising and sleeping.

When the aircraft doors are shut it's the best job. When the doors are open you have no authority or control.

[standbykid]

Flew with a guy who strapped a gun to his hip,

How the hell did he get away with that?

[Bloated Stomach]

Sitting with a n8bh3d in the left seat who loves being in charge.

[AluminBird]

On that last comment, can anyone elaborate?

I have been self employed for over decade and will probably be FO for a good while. I have a huge amount of patience and understanding of all characters. But, are there enough captains who will disrespect me and wear me down that it's worth mentioning? Or are they generally great, humble people who are professional all the time?

Thanks everyone so far. It's offering a good insight for us who are sacrificing a huge amount (and late on) to make what is essentially a lifestyle choice.

Editing to say that, the "lifestyle choice" is that I'm trying to fulfill a certain dream and it's the worse lifestyle that I'm getting prepared for. Also, hoping that the airline companies don't abuse that all day long!

Cheers

[Meester proach]

On that last comment, can anyone elaborate?

I have been self employed for over decade and will probably be FO for a good while. I have a huge amount of patience and understanding of all characters. But, are there enough captains who will disrespect me and wear me down that it's worth mentioning? Or are they generally great, humble people who are professional all the time?

Thanks everyone so far. It's offering a good insight for us who are sacrificing a huge amount (and late on) to make what is essentially a lifestyle choice. Ain't doing it for the money that's for sure!


How longs a piece of string ? Aviation attracts as much a cross section of humanity as anywhere else. If you have a problem with someone , you can’t escape, your stuck in 10’x10’ for hours......And don’t forget not all the aholes are in the LHS...
if you are doing it for the “ lifestyle “ your current one can’t be much cop.

[TowerDog]

How the hell did he get away with that?

There is a program in the USA whereas pilots carry loaded guns to defend the cockpit, after a bit of training, etc.

[pitotheat]

Bloated Stomach. The guy/girl in the LHS is in charge let there be no misunderstanding.

[Yorkshire_Pudding]

Keeping your family together and holding onto your health.

[macdo]

On that last comment, can anyone elaborate?

I have been self employed for over decade and will probably be FO for a good while. I have a huge amount of patience and understanding of all characters. But, are there enough captains who will disrespect me and wear me down that it's worth mentioning? Or are they generally great, humble people who are professional all the time?

Thanks everyone so far. It's offering a good insight for us who are sacrificing a huge amount (and late on) to make what is essentially a lifestyle choice.

Editing to say that, the "lifestyle choice" is that I'm trying to fulfill a certain dream and it's the worse lifestyle that I'm getting prepared for. Also, hoping that the airline companies don't abuse that all day long!

Cheers
To address a couple of your points.

To an airline, most airlines, you are an expensive necessity. From that point, there will be some employers who will abuse you and some who will make some effort not to, but you are still just a number. The trick is to work for one of the least bad ones and disappear off the radar. As an example, I have entered our head office twice in 20 years, happy days. Learn what informal systems are in place to make life easier, know what is a legal roster and what isn't, consider joining a union. Being a distance employee means that it is up to you to keep up with changes which affect you inside the airline.

As regards the Left/Right command gradient, 95% of the time, unless you act like an arrogant a@@se, the majority of Captains will/should let you run the sector as you want, so long as it is within SOP. Hang your hat on the SOP operate within it and your capabilities and Captains will soon learn to trust your judgement. Don't be afraid to ask for assistance rather than ploughing on until the Captain has to intervene. Always remember that the Capt. signs for the aircraft and carries all the responsibility if there is an incident, even if you are the cause. It can be a stressful seat to sit it, especially in the current era of low experience FO's going directly onto large jets. You will inevitably meet the odd difficult colleague, the SOP is there for this situation, you can do an entire flight only making standard calls and a formal briefing. Not pleasant, but safe, and tomorrow is another day!

[The Range]

There is a program in the USA whereas pilots carry loaded guns to defend the cockpit, after a bit of training, etc.

Was that for pax or cargo flights?

[The Range]

Getting up for work very early in the morning. I just hated it.
Having to put up with some jerks in the left seat, but you learn to manage.
I was single so I had no problem with lifestyle and family issues. It makes it a lot easier if you're single.
I avoided long haul, can't stand it.

[172_driver]

Circumstances conspire against you and life is full of traps. If it wasn't for very helpful parents to mind my child when I am away for 3 to 5 days I would have to give up flying. My ex having her struggles to cope with life. My point being, have your better half support you on this journey of yours. If not, be ready to give it up. Or your dream will turn into a nightmare. Sounds dramatic? Possibly. But I am sure many can say "been there, done that". Depending on who you end up flying for, you could be spending up to 2/3rds of your life in hotels. Or in a crash pad. Away from home, regardless. Long haul a tad better, but you'll be jetlagged instead.

The flying, the crew, the irregularities is grand. Not much to say there.

It's tough on families. It's a young man's game.

[gtseraf]

By far and away the biggest hassle is the constant tension between work and social/family life. The best mitigation is part time and planning to retire as early as you are able. The aggravating factors depend on the airline, but poor rostering, inefficient leave systems, commuting, sleep management, job insecurity, stress around sim/medicals and poor management are all to be considered.

I have rarely met a pilot who doesn't enjoy the job between doors closed and doors opening, but I have met some who find any of the above factors unbearable.

Perhaps, it is a career most suited to single people!

Macdo, I think you have hit the nail on the head!. In addition to security, try immigration and customs for international ops and queues!

[TowerDog]

Was that for pax or cargo flights?

Pax flights.

[Twiglet1]

Hardest thing for me is getting called out of standby at 6pm for a 2-sector 2-crew night turn and trying to land at 8am having being on duty for 12 hours and awake for nearly 24 hrs.

Otherwise the hardest bit is keeping fatigue at bay and finding time to do all those things which work gets in the way of: eating healthily, exercising and sleeping.

When the aircraft doors are shut it's the best job. When the doors are open you have no authority or control.

Next time get up dead early, have a nap around two-three pm in the circadian low. Crew members responsibilities rule ok.

[iggy]

1. Pilots
2. Managers
3. Pilots that are also managers

[clvf88]

Next time get up dead early, have a nap around two-three pm in the circadian low. Crew members responsibilities rule ok.

Bit of a gamble if you're working for a certain Irish airline, doing a 12 hour home standby starting at 0600 ...

[Mungo Man]

Next time get up dead early, have a nap around two-three pm in the circadian low. Crew members responsibilities rule ok.

Isn’t the circadian low ‘Am’? I’m talking about being adjusted to day time flying and then suddenly being asked to do a 2 crew night flight. Impossible to adjust for properly. Sometimes I’ll nap immediately after being called out and sometimes I’ll nap while on standby but then if you don’t get called out it affects your sleep at home. No-win hence the hardest aspect of the job for me personally.

[AluminBird]

Bit of a gamble if you're working for a certain Irish airline, doing a 12 hour home standby starting at 0600 ...

On standby in the airlines, are you not able to simply sleep through until whatever time you like and choose to be woken by the standby call?

Forgive my ignorance!

I'd really love to see what an ATP contract looks like!

[champair79]

You don’t need to be in an Irish airline to do a 12 hour home standby starting at 6am. I’ve just finished 2 in a row. I didn’t get up at 6am though. As AluminBird alluded to, I just put my phone on loud near my pillow and had a normal lie in!

[clvf88]

On standby in the airlines, are you not able to simply sleep through until whatever time you like and choose to be woken by the standby call?

Forgive my ignorance!



Absolutely correct.

But consider you would have gone to bed early the night before to accomodate a 0600 call-out, so sleeping in will be tough. And if you do sleep in to accomodate the possibility of a 1759 call-out, consider that you may be on standby again at 0600 the following morning and now unable to get the early night you require.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that its all well and good saying 'crew responsibilities' - but to be rested enough for a standby callout at the beginning and end of a 12 hour standby, especialliy with multiple days of it in a row, is (in my experience) impossible.

[back to Boeing]

The number one rule if you have a family is that your spouse has to be 100% behind you. No doubts that they will be able to cope. Because at the end of the day they will be the ones keeping the household together. Picking up the kids from school, doing the parents evenings, Mopping up the tears and the tantrums while you are at work. Your hours are long and irregular and there is virtually no set pattern. You live your roster month to month. And even if you do split up, which is a possibility, they will still be dependant on your roster until your children are 18.

The he job is great, but it’s just a job. Make sure you have a life outside of work.

Its also has its family life benefits. I’m the only dad that regularly can drop my kids off and pick them up from the school gates exactly because I have that irregular shift pattern. Not always, but very often.

The job is like any other. Some days are good some are bad and some are downright awful. Most of the people you work with are great, because you all understand the job. Some are absolute idiots, but they are thankfully reducing.

Get your our life out of work sorted and keep nurturing it.

[Okavango]

Do difficulties regarding family life not relax a little bit outside the busy summer schedules? There are also part time options as per the other thread.

[Paolo]

medicals and the simulator. The older you get (been flying since 23 and now 43) the harder it seems! I've had two small blips in the medical since turning 40...and although I haven't had an issue with a simulator before, the older I get the more pressure I put on myself to perform well! will enjoy retirement in just over 10 yrs when I wont have to worry about either!

[Callsign Kilo]

The social side of things can really take a knock from the job. However, in reality, I don’t know if I could do anything else now? I’ve done the daily grind, and even with weekends off, I still hate the thought of going back to a desk and doing something that I would only do for money.

Dealing with people with ego. The industry seemed to be a magnet for people with very high opinions of themselves, however it’s getting a little less so; possibly? There’s nothing worse than having to listen to some prat self gratify themselves all the way to the Canaries and back. It makes a long day waaaaaayyy longer. The lowest form of conversation & personality on the flight deck imho