Diamond DA42 Down in New Zealand

[462]

Police confirm two deceased, apparently experienced instructors from Ardmore Flying School. Aircraft down in Kaimanawa Ranges. After an overnight search for the missing aircraft, which was reported missing last night at about 22:00, the wreckage was found this morning in steep terrain. The aircraft was last seen on radar about 22 nautical miles SSE of Taupo on a flight from Palmerston North to Ardmore Airport.
R.I.P. Souls on Board.

[462]

It seems there is only one DA42 at Ardmore Flying School. It was imported as N422DK and originally NZ registered as ZK-DAX. It was later changed to ZK-EAN.

[462]

A Little more information from various news sources:
The pilots were on a regular flight as part of the requirement to gain flying hours towards a higher qualification.
A rescue helicopter was mobilised last night and tried to reach the last-known location of the plane, 24km east of Tūrangi, but had to turn back because of low cloud and drizzle. The crash site was said to be in steep, high country. There was more low cloud and drizzle this morning and the rescue team was waiting for conditions to improve earlier before they could get in the air.

[462]

Early days, Me thinks DME step exceeded, No ATC coverage = failure of Airways NZ .To much reliance on button pushing animation = failure of flight training worldwide. RIP

It seems that they might have been in contact with Airways - the Wings over NZ Aviation Forum have posted that the alarm was first raised by Airways at 10.30pm on Saturday.

[Bravohotel]

They had 2 ZK-EAN & ZK-EAP the latter being the subject aircraft.

[kaz3g]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12215694

[philc206]

The cloud base was in the trees, so why not IFR?

[Capt. On Heat]

The cloud base was in the trees, so why not IFR?

Where does it say they weren't IFR? I'm not saying they were just that media information I have seen hasn't made mention of it - One would suspect with that weather, over that terrain, in the evening, in an IFR twin, they would've been. Not need to start doubting the guys immediately without many facts.

The flight track certainly looks like a PM SID followed by an intercept to IFR route tracking for APITI - TARUA- AP; of course GPS can make any flightpath look as though it were IFR tracking.

[AmarokGTI]

Where does it say they weren't IFR? I'm not saying they were just that media information I have seen hasn't made mention of it - One would suspect with that weather, over that terrain, in the evening, in an IFR twin, they would've been. Not need to start doubting the guys immediately without many facts.

The flight track certainly looks like a PM SID followed by an intercept to IFR route tracking for APITI - TARUA- AP; of course GPS can make any flightpath look as though it were IFR tracking.

7,800 LSALT on the track. Depending on the version of DA42 they were in, that could have been a big problem OEI. I doubt they were in the latest version.

[462]

Thank you Bravo Delta and Bravohotel for clarification and correction of my postings.

Have there been many other DA42 incidents of this nature?

[machtuk]

RIP the two aviators, can't help them now but hopefully others can learn from their demise:-(

[sgenie]

The track shows decent 500-900 fpm. Looks like they just started descending way too early. Sector alt there is 7800....

7,800 LSALT on the track. Depending on the version of DA42 they were in, that could have been a big problem OEI. I doubt they were in the latest version.[/QUOTE]

[troppo]

The cloud base was in the trees, so why not IFR?
Here's a hint. What time was CET at? How could it he anything other than IFR?

[sgenie]

Not necessarily. They were flying late for the coverage below 10,000 - when I fly there at night they offer me non-standard altitude to finish the flight under control. Besides, even outside of the control area there are approach plates and charts that depict safe procedures for approach (I am talking about GPS now, NDB in Taupo is notoriously unreliable). DA42 has very decent G1000 package which helps a lot in terms of orientation and positioning.

Sorry pal, How many times do we in NZ have to witness these kinds of accidents, yes we all can make mistakes but in the world of modern technology why can’t Airways Corp provide a service ( Radar oversight ) for our young kiwis trying to better themselves. User pay system is harming safety and progress - Airways Corp guilty.

[machtuk]

Sorry pal, How many times do we in NZ have to witness these kinds of accidents, yes we all can make mistakes but in the world of modern technology why can’t Airways Corp provide a service ( Radar oversight ) for our young kiwis trying to better themselves. User pay system is harming safety and progress - Airways Corp guilty.

Yep they where IFR and because they where training I don’t believe they where looking for a visual approach.


Such events will never be eliminated due the human element of it all. We can have the best planes, the best on board equipment, the best training yet pilots still decide for one reason or another check out early Why? Answer that in simple terms & you would have solved aviators long time problem, why do we continue to crash despite wanting to stay alive?

[27/09]

Bravo Delta

It might surprise you to know the following airports, all of which have scheduled flights serving them involve IFR flight outside controlled airspace, day or night.
Kaitaia, Kerikeri, Whangarei, Whakatane, Taupo, Wanganui, Paraparaumu, Hokitika, Westport, Timaru. Later at night you can add Hamilton, Palmerston North, Napier Gisborne, New Plymouth, Tauranga, Rotorua plus a few others.

As utopian as your suggestion is I don't see radar control services being provided in these areas either during main business hours far less 24/7. The cost is too high. From what I am observing Airways cannot staff their current requirements without them providing even greater coverage.

Also are you telling me everywhere in Oz has radar services in similar areas?

[B2N2]

Both being instructors were they maybe practicing simulated SE?

[gulliBell]

Do you ever practice simulated SE at night? I wouldn't have thought so.

[NZFlyingKiwi]

Both being instructors were they maybe practicing simulated SE?



I would think that unlikely, asymmetric training under IFR late at night in hilly/mountainous terrain isn't something I've known many multi instructors to indulge in...

[462]

The aircraft: (From Wings over New Zealand Aviation Forum)
https://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m169/flyernzl/aircraft/ZK-EAP3_IMG_7471-Edit_zps0eyocx1n.jpg

[sgenie]

Considering that the company originated from the gliding roots - no wonder DA series looks like a glider abomination. I must say, though, they are comfortable aircrafts to fly, I enjoyed them all (maybe except for DA20, which are way too light to my taste). The canopy opens against the airflow so it cannot pop open.

One butt ugly aircraft probably a great stable platform for training, A glider dragonfly after having sex with a blow fly with engines -Can that canopy open in flight?[/QUOTE]

[B2N2]

I would think that unlikely, asymmetric training under IFR late at night in hilly/mountainous terrain isn't something I've known many multi instructors to indulge in...

Under IFR or in IMC conditions ?
Two different things.
Engines fail at night also.
Again, just a thought as instructors tend to challenge themselves a little more.

[towerguy]

"Agree, but maybe they thought they where better than they where, but missed the basics. The attitude of the pilot can play a part. I’m good I’m bullet proof. Goes with the territory.

Hi mum Hi dad I’m a pilot, even the training organisations need to update."

I know for a fact that neither boy was that way inclined. Both were serious about their flying and working very hard toward professional careers.One was a B cat and the other just approaching his B cat test. They were not fresh new C cats. Something has gone wrong, whether mechanical, material or just an outright mistake we will have to await the outcome of the investigation - or we may never even know. I do know that I have an enormous void in my life now - one that no parent should ever have. I will issue my son his final takeoff clearance on Friday at 2pm.

[machtuk]

I know for a fact that neither boy was that way inclined. Both were serious about their flying and working very hard toward professional careers.One was a B cat and the other just approaching his B cat test. They were not fresh new C cats. Something has gone wrong, whether mechanical, material or just an outright mistake we will have to await the outcome of the investigation - or we may never even know. I do know that I have an enormous void in my life now - one that no parent should ever have. I will issue my son his final takeoff clearance on Friday at 2pm.


there would be a lot of people hurting right now with this tragic incedent, remember you are not alone with this, reach out, the lift under ones wings can support many.
RIP to two aviators that have been taken way too early.

[MitrePeak]

Originally Posted by towerguy https://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/619762-diamond-da42-down-new-zealand-2.html#post10430638)
I know for a fact that neither boy was that way inclined. Both were serious about their flying and working very hard toward professional careers.One was a B cat and the other just approaching his B cat test. They were not fresh new C cats. Something has gone wrong, whether mechanical, material or just an outright mistake we will have to await the outcome of the investigation - or we may never even know. I do know that I have an enormous void in my life now - one that no parent should ever have. I will issue my son his final takeoff clearance on Friday at 2pm.


My condolences to you, 30 years ago I survived a fatal crash in a light aircraft. Every time I hear of a light aircraft accident like this, it brings it all back. I was in my mid 20s. In the following years I lost a number of friends and colleagues in the same way. Just remember they were doing something they loved and were passionate about.
They got to live their dream. Sadly, it ended too soon. As important as it is to find out 'why', for the Aviation community, it is also important to focus on their achievements. Two young men following their dreams,..PPL,CPL, B/C Cat. Instructors,..they did well in their short time with us. As we all know, taking to the sky has it's risks, but the joy of flight is so thrilling that we gladly do it anyway. ..30 years ago I wrote a quote in my logbook by author/Pilot Richard Bach
" Those of us who fly have our debts to pay "..
I hope that as time goes on you can focus on those achievements and how they gave of their knowledge to others.
Best wishes..

[NZFlyingKiwi]

Under IFR or in IMC conditions ?
Two different things.
Engines fail at night also.
Again, just a thought as instructors tend to challenge themselves a little more.


Of course, but there is a time and a place to practice it and I would think night time in that particular part of the country where the MSA is pretty high would not be it. If my student had just bounced a landing in the twin and applied power to recover I wouldn't simulate an engine failure at that moment although it could happen in the real world. ;) Anyway I do take your point on board and I wasn't intending to imply engine failures should be strictly limit to day VFR straight and level etc.

Very sorry for your loss towerguy, the mood around Ardmore has been very sombre these past few days.

[462]

Towerguy – so sorry for your loss. Accidents that have loss of life often seem removed from reality until one reads a message like yours. My most sincere condolences to you and your family.

[philc206]

Is ( total ) electrical failure a possibility ?

[27/09]

Is ( total ) electrical failure a possibility ?
Anything is possible. However I doubt total electrical failure would be sudden. I don't know the DA42 system but at a minimum I'd guess you would have to to lose both alternators and have the battery go flat before you would have total electrical failure.

I haven't read anywhere they made any distress calls, which if true indicates they didn't have a problem they knew about. Having said that they were operating outside of controlled airspace so may have made some calls on the local Taupo frequency.

[462]

Rather worringly another DA42 has today gone down in Dubai with the loss of four souls.

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/621605-dubai-aircraft-crash-three-britons-one-south-african-killed.html?highlight=da42+dubai

Could there be an issue with this design?

[Squawk7700]

Could there be an issue with this design?

Hundreds of... if not thousands of Cessnas have also crashed... just sayin’

[Sunfish]

A quick look at the manual shows 2X2 ECU, 2 X ECU backup batteries plus battery and two generators so it’s difficult to, but of course not impossible to imagine a total electric failure as the cause.

[27/09]

A quick look at the manual shows 2X2 ECU, 2 X ECU backup batteries plus battery and two generators so it’s difficult to, but of course not impossible to imagine a total electric failure as the cause.

That is a lot of batteries. I think some of them were added after a double engine failure on take off accident, though I don't know if they were added retrospectively or just to new builds.

In this accident both engines had been started off ground power (contrary to the POH, which stated the second engine must be started of the internal batteries - meaning they need to have suffficient charge to do this) and the engine failures occurred when the gear was selected up. There wasn't enough residual juice in the batteries to keep the ECU's running and the engines shut down.

[Sunfish]

Rotax (912 iS) and GE and/or RR and/or P&W have permanent magnet alternators to provide dedicated ECU/FADEC/FBW power in all circumstances short of mechanical failure. Diamond engines have a dedicated exciter current battery.