Massive cruise ship evacuation off Norway March 2019

[ODEN]

https://www.thisisinsider.com/viking-sky-cruise-ship-evacuation-passenger-tweets-2019-3?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=topbar&utm_term=mobile (https://www.thisisinsider.com/viking-sky-cruise-ship-evacuation-passenger-tweets-2019-3?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=topbar&utm_term=mobile)

https://youtu.be/uuh0eSxdRF4

[ShyTorque]

Good luck to all involved. I understand the ship has been at least turned into the waves, which will hopefully reduce the rolling motion somewhat and make rescue hoist work less hazardous.

[atakacs]

I wonder about the risk assessment of this one...
Hundreds of helicopter rotations in bad conditions vs waiting for better weather on the boat. Not convinced this is such a great idea.
Anyone closer to the action with specifics?

[Fareastdriver]

They obviously don't have North Sea winds and waves on Swiss lakes.

[skadi]

I wonder about the risk assessment of this one...
Hundreds of helicopter rotations in bad conditions vs waiting for better weather on the boat. Not convinced this is such a great idea.
Anyone closer to the action with specifics?

...or waiting for breakage of the anchor chain? The rocky coast is not far away! Evacuation is the only way!

skadi

[treadigraph]

A freighter with 9 aboard also in trouble nearby.

BBC report (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47680055)...

[sycamore]

It is on `flightradar24,at least 4 helos ,and 2 locations.

[Thomas coupling]

1200 pax.
4 helos.
3 pax per winch.
1 winch per 20 mins.
36 pax/hr
33hours ????

[G0ULI]

1200 pax.
4 helos.
3 pax per winch.
1 winch per 20 mins.
36 pax/hr
33hours ????
Why not use the helipad?

[obgraham]

Awfully long time to evacuate was my reaction also.

Hopefully the winds will die down, and the seas calm enough to allow the tenders to be put out and finish the job.

Having cruised with this line, I'm sure the crew will handle it all very professionally. Lots of us old geezers aboard -- we need gentle handling!

[megan]

Why not use the helipad?Because it doesn't have one, at least not on the deck plans available.

[jimjim1]

Seems to be making way.

4 knots against the wind. Wind is SW 25-35kn

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1067x730/vikingsky5_ecc547488b87f24241c964d8f9fc7150f195502a.png

[megan]

Reports say it has one of its four engines serviceable, though that was before they anchored. Perhaps they managed to get another on line.

[rog747]

The view from the inside was very unpleasant - ceiling panels falling down on pax -and sofa chairs and tables flyingrolling across the floor - at least the grand piano was fixed.

Not nice for the folk on the ship - shallow water, nasty rough seas and high winds - at one point the ship was only a few hundred metres drifting without power off shore.
Lucky escape for now.
There is a H pad right on the bow...not sure if they are using this or on the upper aft decks...not much outdoor space on this ship for a chopper to safely hover over.

She is being shadowed or towed now by the Normand Ranger and the Ocean response large tug/supply vessels

[Heliice]

15 hours into the evacuation and about 1/4 of the people onboard have been brought to land. My thought has always been that if there is a "real" emergency, like the ship taking in water or having run ashore that a helicopter evacuation of all passengers/crew is pretty much impossible in a reasonable timeframe . Imagine if this was 100Nm+ out at sea or if jet fuel was not available close by . . .

[rog747]

15 hours into the evacuation and about 1/4 of the people onboard have been brought to land. My thought has always been that if there is a "real" emergency, like the ship taking in water or having run ashore that a helicopter evacuation of all passengers/crew is pretty much impossible in a reasonable timeframe . Imagine if this was 100Nm+ out at sea or if jet fuel was not available close by . . .

If she was way out in open sea and drifting she does not run the risk of running aground as was the close call yesterday but would be a rough ride in high seas without any power.

There have been in recent years quite a few liners losing all power (Queen Mary 2 being one of them on more than one occasion) but thankfully most had power restored ASAP.

The Greek liner Oceanos was way off shore in South Africa taking on water sinking in huge seas and most pax were taken off by Heli's

[rog747]

Latest is over 400 taken off - has some power and is trying to make a port today if weather allows

[Heliice]

rog747

Yes I understand that the threat would not be as immediate if this ship was further away from the shoreline. What I was thinking about was if a ship would need to to be evacuated in a threatening emergency like a fire or if the ship was going down . . .
I know my thoughts are a bit off topic, but this real life example just show that at an evacuation of this scale just takes a long time.

The H deck up front is probably only for hoisting and not for landing a S92 or a 332. Anyway there it is probably far safe hoisting the pax than landing on the ship in 8m high waves.

[Evil Twin]

1200 pax.
4 helos.
3 pax per winch.
1 winch per 20 mins.
36 pax/hr
33hours ????


You'd think after the first few laps that more than 3 per hour would be possible, though I am only speculating as the conditions look pretty challenging. I'd say after moving offshore and perhaps being able to point the ship into the waves the winch location could possibly be a tad more stable.. Well done to the crews involved, a big day out

[atakacs]

Seems that they now have 3 out of 4 engines online and that they will manage to port under their own.

Still wondering about the wisdom of so many rotorcraft rotations in such conditions, especially as they seem ongoing despite the ship being under control.

[Heliice]

According to the representatives from the local authorities the evacuation is still ongoing due to the Viking Sky´s Captains wish. This was what they said in this mornings press conference.

[helicrazi]

We have procedures for such a scenario, 4 aircraft and poor weather isn't a problem

[Heliice]

Latest news is that they have stopped the evacuation job after having evacuated 460 people in roughly 19 hours.

[heli1]

So am I the only one to find this thread filled by Google sponsored inappropriate adverts from cruise line companies?!

[HeliComparator]

So am I the only one to find this thread filled by Google sponsored inappropriate adverts from cruise line companies?!
no, you are not the only one. The irony is amusing however!

[Fareastdriver]

You cannot just plonk a SAR helicopter on a gash piece of deck to pick up passengers. Not only is the pitch and roll to be taken in account but the deck strength as well. Not a lot of decks are stressed to 9+ tonnes.

[CargoOne]

What I was thinking about was if a ship would need to to be evacuated in a threatening emergency like a fire or if the ship was going down . . .
I know my thoughts are a bit off topic, but this real life example just show that at an evacuation of this scale just takes a long time.


Helicopter evacuation has never been considered to be the primary way of evacuation from the ships, let alone cruise ships. Actually it is not considered at all, helipads are there for VIP guests, medivac and sometimes tech support in. Ship evacuation is designed and certified by means of rafts and boats.

[BluSdUp]

I am not sure what redundancy is required on a ship like this going into Norske Havet in the winter like this ,but we are not talking the pleasant Caribbean her.
Every week there is a storm on this 2500 km long coastline, and filling a ship with 1100 pax at 75 years plus is not smart unless You are sure the ship is in shape!!
Lets compare this with a Jumbo with all engine flame out! In slow motion!

Atakacs
They almost hit the coast line
And if that had happened we would for sure have looked at a 50% casualty rate!!
You obviously have no clue whatsoever what You are talking about, sorry to say!

The wind are now 20 m/s and 30m/s in 6 hrs from ca 240Deg then down to 5 and at 02:00 from 030deg at 30m/s.
Waves slowly down from 10 meters and now average 5meter.
473 pax evacuated a dusin critically injured.

Job well done from my SeaKing heroes at the 330 Squadron!
Mission impossible?
You always try!
Always.

Regards
Cpt B

[SASless]

I see this as being a amazing response with no notice during very challenging weather conditions in a remote area.

Well Done!

As noted.....the old Sea King manned by excellent crews rose to the occasion and did what makes Helicopters and those who fly them stand out in aviation.

We go to the aid and assistance of others when needed.

Hand Salute to all who participated in this.....you done good!:ok:

[atakacs]

473 pax evacuated a dusin critically injured.
What was the cause of the injuries ?

I fully understand that this is a region with very demanding weather conditions and that this ship had probably no business to be there given the conditions.

I also understand that ordering a thousand of SAR helicopters rotations in those conditions involves a lot a risk, despite the amazing quality of the people manning those aircrafts. Irrespective of not knowing what I am speaking of I would be interested to know how the assessment was made. In any case happy to see a positive outcome.

[John Eacott]

What was the cause of the injuries ?

I fully understand that this is a region with very demanding weather conditions and that this ship had probably no business to be there given the conditions.

I also understand that ordering a thousand of SAR helicopters rotations in those conditions involves a lot a risk, despite the amazing quality of the people manning those aircrafts. Despite not knowing what I am speaking of I would be interested to know how the assessment was made. In any case happy to see a positive outcome.

I’d expect the injuries to result from the conditions on board, with loose articles moving around with enough force to break limbs, etc.

~900 pax at 15 per load (S92 or Sea King) would be about 60 loads, certainly nothing like a thousand. About 45-60 minutes per sortie when winching and offloading ashore, so three helicopters would need about 15-20 hours flying each including refuels, crew changes, etc. Maybe you could dial down the concern and accept that such decisions are made by professionals who have a fair degree of competence :ok:

[Torcher]

The operation included a total of five helicopters.

2 Sea Kings, plus 3 SAR Helicopters operated by CHC. Pumas and S-92

In addition to the Cruise ship, a nearby costal freighter with 9 POB, was evacuated by helicopters

Very well done by all crews, and support personnel

[nonsense]

So am I the only one to find this thread filled by Google sponsored inappropriate adverts from cruise line companies?!

I don't see any ads at all; I tend to forget them when I don't see them. Look into getting an ad blocker?

[SASless]

An AP article.....


https://apnews.com/a45c3b5a085a402e9242f5152dc77474

[Thomas coupling]

I know nothing about large cruise ship evacuation procedures but would love to have a peek!
I presume (assume) the real biggies that carry 3 or even 5k pax - stick to relatively safe routes which are within reasonable reach of other ships, because as near as damn it, there is no way jose, that any fleet of helos would be involved in a mass evacuation on these 'mothers'!
It would take massive logistics to get there, rescue, remain on task, refuel and redeploy with these numbers.

Secondly, does anyone have any knowledge of how security conscious these giants and their precious cargo's are?
An IED in the right place below the water line would certainly be on a par with 9/11, I would guess (casualty wise).

[SASless]

TC....think back a few years.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTS_Oceanos

[GrayHorizonsHeli]

Theres one good thing about the need to evacuate such a large ship...there generally is alot of time available. They don't sink like a brick.

Other than taking on water, my biggest fear would be a fire. Panic sets in faster with a fire.

Do the life boats have enough capacity these days for all the passengers? Or do the crew of the ship cull out the weak and unstable, so the strong can survive??
In this case, were they actively using/loading the lifeboats at the time the helicopters were plucking people from the deck?

[albatross]

Theres one good thing about the need to evacuate such a large ship...there generally is alot of time available. They don't sink like a brick.

Other than taking on water, my biggest fear would be a fire. Panic sets in faster with a fire.

Do the life boats have enough capacity these days for all the passengers? Or do the crew of the ship cull out the weak and unstable, so the strong can survive??
In this case, were they actively using/loading the lifeboats at the time the helicopters were plucking people from the deck?

I do believe that since the Titanic disaster there must, by law, be sufficient life boat capacity to accommodate all aboard.
The problems start when the sea conditions, ship list, fire, crew training and other factors make loading, launching, ect. problematic.

[Praet]

Do the life boats have enough capacity these days for all the passengers? Or do the crew of the ship cull out the weak and unstable, so the strong can survive??
In this case, were they actively using/loading the lifeboats at the time the helicopters were plucking people from the deck?
As per SOLAS:

Passenger vessels on long international voyages must carry partially or fully enclosed lifeboats for at least 50% of capacity on each side and rigid or inflatable life rafts for at least 25% of capacity, for a total of life-saving appliances for at least 125% of capacity.
Passenger vessels on short international voyages must carry partially or fully enclosed lifeboatds for at least 30% of capacity and inflatable or rigid liferafts for at least 70% of capacity, plus inflatable or rigid lifeboats for at least 25% of capacity, for a total of life-saving appliances for at least 125% of capacity.
(https://www.rina.org.uk/lifeboats.html)

"Long international voyage" means an international voyage which is not a short international voyage;

"Short international voyage" means an international voyage:
a.) in the course of which a ship is not more than 200 miles from a port or place in which the passengers and crew could be placed in safety, and
b.) which does not exceed 600 miles in distance between the last port of call in the country in which this voyage begins and the final port of destination,
but for the purposes of this definition, no account shall be taken of any deviation by a ship from the intended voyage due solely to the stress of weather or any other circumstances that neither the master nor the owner nor the charterer (if any) of the ship could have prevented or forestalled.Solas Chapter V - Annex 1 - Categories of Waters and Classes of Ships (http://solasv.mcga.gov.uk/annexes/Annex01.htm)

[[email protected]]

The emergency evacuation of a cruise liner has been a concern for many years because of the numbers involved - as we have seen, even with 5 helicopters it takes a long while. We had a similar situation off Holyhead many years ago using the 2 SAR Wessex from 22 Sqn plus the SARTU fleet.

Deconfliction between the air assets is easy, just use a common frequency and have an on-scene commander directing where to winch from - fortunately a big deck like a cruise liner offers several simultaneous winching positions - as long as the ship's crew know what they are doing when corralling the pax into the right places.

As someone has already mentioned, the real problems occur when you don't have 5 or 6 winch-equipped helicopters immediately available and fuel is not readily available.

We used to be concerned down in the Falklands when the big cruise liners appeared, doubling the population of the Islands as each ship arrived - one SAR helo with the possibility of a second plus some old S-61s without winches fitted.......Not sure it is that much better there now with a 189 replacing the Sea King and the same older S-61s.

[obgraham]

Re the lifeboats: from other sites in contact with people onboard, the problem was that the seas were too rough to allow deployment of the lifeboats. I've found it difficult to enter the tenders when the seas are just a few feet, let alone 30-40 feet. I believe that's why the captain decided to evacuate by helo. There were risks to all the alternatives. If he had kept everyone aboard, then the ship foundered on the rocks, the losses would have been massive.

There is a live webcam in Molde, Norway, showing the Sky safely tied up. Harrowing experience for those aboard, but disaster averted. I can't imagine anyone handling this situation better than Norwegians.

[BluSdUp]

I do agree
Fire is the worst
If You want to have a nightmare google Scandinavian Star-
I lost a dear friend there.

Now
Yes there is enough life boats , tenders and life rafts for all.
BUT
I shall get the Draft ( Nautical map) for Hustavika and we will most likely find 50 to 150 meters depth less then 50 to 150 meters from the svaberg ( The ice bulldozed every bolder and loose materiel out in Norske-renna)
So , potentially, we could have had a wreak today submerged there joining the hundred of others that have pushed the luck on this coast-line.
With an average age of 75 on the Pax this could have been nasty.
Keep in mind waves over 8 meters hammering this ship onto the granite and a 45 kts xwind!

I suspect it was the anchors and the restart of one of the 4 engines that saved the day.
This was a stern warning from Murphy.

Ps
Hurtigruten, the smaller , but MORE seaworthy coastal steamer that runs Bergen - Hammerfest the last , ah, say 130 years, said: Thanks , But , No thanks and stopped for a few hrs. Rare !
Some seriously hardy Commanders there!
Again
All RotorHeads SAR.and Medevac.
You are fantastic, especially 330Sqd and the CHC chaps last night!
Regards
Cpt B

[Ant]

How could all 4 diesel engines be knocked out at the same time? Fuel contamination maybe?

[Self loading bear]

Propulsion is diesel-electric which means that all engine-generators are kept at same revolutions and share their power on a common bus.
When one engine breaks down, the others can get overloaded if users other than propulsion are not switched-off quickly enough (automatic).
overloaded engines fall down in revolutions and are shut-off the common bus automatically.

[tartare]

Much respect to the drivers and crews of the machines involved.
That looks like `orrible seas and very strong winds - utterly foul weather.
Remarkable to see a couple of helicopters keeping station rock steady, just above the ship, even if aided by technology!

[WingNut60]

Propulsion is diesel-electric which means that all engine-generators are kept at same revolutions and share their power on a common bus.
When one engine breaks down, the others can get overloaded if users other than propulsion are not switched-off quickly enough (automatic).
overloaded engines fall down in revolutions and are shut-off the common bus automatically.

Admittedly I know nothing about marine diesel-electric propulsion systems, but surely loss of one engine, even if it led to cascading trip off-line for the other overloaded engines would still leave you three running engines that can be brought back on-line fairly sharpish with reduced load.
And I'd have thought that for such a critical function there would be automatic load shedding for non-critical feeders anyway.

[megan]

There is a H pad right on the bowAre you sure, none of the photos show one, though the area is relatively clear. In the circumstances presented I wouldn't be winching from the bow.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1449x966/vv_da06a6c5a98ff8a77984995a621f6ffb194b800f.jpg

[Old Dogs]

Maybe you could dial down the concern and accept that such decisions are made by professionals who have a fair degree of competence :ok:

That about covers it. 🤔

[CargoOne]

How could all 4 diesel engines be knocked out at the same time? Fuel contamination maybe?

I am not sure whether all 4 went out, I thought it was 3 out of 4. However (think of B747 too) one engine only is not enough in rough waters and wind. Long time ago a 4-engine very large navy ship has suffered a similar problem leaving one engine only and they quickly realised one engine is not enough - not just to keep the position against the tide but also without sufficient speed like 5kn+ the ship cannot be controlled by the rudder and they were rather quickly approaching a rocky coast in Med. The day was saved by mechanics who managed to get the second engine online shortly before impact.

[Self loading bear]

Admittedly I know nothing about marine diesel-electric propulsion systems, but surely loss of one engine, even if it led to cascading trip off-line for the other overloaded engines would still leave you three running engines that can be brought back on-line fairly sharpish with reduced load.
And I'd have thought that for such a critical function there would be automatic load shedding for non-critical feeders anyway.
Correct, that is how it is programmed to work.
But did it work that way?

More problems can be experienced when you have the Main propulsion proppelors with controllable pitch propellors connected to one side of the Main engine and the generator on the other side of the Main engine.
If propellors come above waterlevel due to waves. It will be difficult to control constant revolutions.

[CaptainSAC]

In reply to Ant. If you lose one or more 4 engines on a diesel electric setup you can very quickly get into an overload situation. Automatic controls start shedding loads. One of the "preferential" trips that would go offline is the stabilisers as you don't need them to navigate the ship Do you..? Now you have no stabilisers in a ship with no propulsion and and its in 40kt beam winds and you start rolling horrifically. A quite feasible scenario is that air gets into the fuel system and there goes your other 2 gens. Now you are on emergency generators which literally give the barest minimum ie steering and navigational controls and maybe 1 anchor winch. Not much you can do but try and get the air out of the fuel system and get those Diesel Electric Generators started and get propulsion back so you can turn into the wind and waves.... but hang on you are rolling so much (because you don't have enough power to run the stabilisers) that you cant get the fuel system bled... Groundhog moment for everyone...! As a captain on commercial vessels I was taught that the best lifeboat you have is the one you are on, and not to leave it unless your life is threatened or you are in very dire trouble. El Capitano must have been very worried to ask for an evacuation. The decision would not have been made lightly considering the actual weather conditions at the time.

[rog747]

Theres one good thing about the need to evacuate such a large ship...there generally is alot of time available. They don't sink like a brick.

Other than taking on water, my biggest fear would be a fire. Panic sets in faster with a fire.

Do the life boats have enough capacity these days for all the passengers? Or do the crew of the ship cull out the weak and unstable, so the strong can survive??
In this case, were they actively using/loading the lifeboats at the time the helicopters were plucking people from the deck?

The Estonia sank in minutes - OK she was a big ferry but was huge and almost like a liner with most pax asleep in their cabins - massive storm and took on water - went over in minutes - almost 900 lost - no life boats launched nor would they have survived the sea conditions -
Same as this one - unable to launch the boats due the sea state, 10m waves and high winds
The crew tried in vain to make ready the boats but had to abandon that - had the ship run aground then the only way off would have been Heli's for all - as long as she stayed upright and not turned over...

This was a close call indeed -

Re number of boats per pax on board new ships - Viking sky had 6 x 150 seat life boats - certainly not quite enough for all the crew and pax - But loads of life rafts are fitted
there are not quite enough spots in life boats but with all the life rafts there is more than enough. But in those conditions this weekend they would have been useless

[rog747]

Are you sure, none of the photos show one, though the area is relatively clear. In the circumstances presented I wouldn't be winching from the bow.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1449x966/vv_da06a6c5a98ff8a77984995a621f6ffb194b800f.jpg


you can see the H pad area on the bow in this photo - it may just be a winch up area and not a hard stand - but the airlift this weekend was from the very top decks near the funnel.
Had anyone been on the bow they would have been swept away

https://cruiseweb.com/cruise-lines/viking-ocean-cruises/ship-viking-sky


https://youtu.be/896qKRdC4fc

[Thomas coupling]

SASless - the boat you refer to "only" has 571 pax onboard - which is probably the equivalent of a dreamliner going in!
I'm talking "massive" .
Look at Harmony of the Seas, at 226,000 tonnes and 5400 pax!!! God forbid this being holed below the waterline with a substantial IED. Wouldn't take long to go down, I suspect!! Say 500 miles offshore - no helo can reach it?
What then. Lifeboat capacity to cater for 125% of pax, but to what avail? SS8 or 9 would savage those boats. Scary!!!!

Makes 9/11 look like a walk in the park.

The more I think about it, the more I think, this predicament hasn't been thought out to a +ve conclusion. Best stick close to the shore, better still, forget cruising:=

[SASless]

The Terrorists only have to get it right once......Intelligence/Security forces cannot guard every possible target or prevent every kind of attack.


Think about a single dirty bomb on any busy Motorway in the UK or say the Forth Bridge or at Heathrow Airport.

[megan]

you can see the H pad area on the bow in this photoUnfortunately that is a drawing/painting, not a photo. I'm unable on any actual photo of the ship to see a designated helo spot at the bow.

[SuperF]

so instead of winching, what about lifting a big solid basket type thing onto the heli deck. people walk in, far quicker than you can winch, then haul them off to the nearest bit of ground where they can be unloaded and then shuttled from there by other helicopters. you would get the pax unloaded way faster than winching.

Yes they are on a hook, but put a safety strap through the body and get into it.

[Old Dogs]

so instead of winching, what about lifting a big solid basket type thing onto the heli deck. people walk in, far quicker than you can winch, then haul them off to the nearest bit of ground where they can be unloaded and then shuttled from there by other helicopters. you would get the pax unloaded way faster than winching.

Yes they are on a hook, but put a safety strap through the body and get into it.
I invented that concept in the Beaufort Sea in the early '80's.

We used what we called "fly pallets" to haul stuff that wasn't easily slung.

We got the bright idea that this kit could be used for rescuing folks in the water.

We did all of our 212/61/76 slinging vertical ref in those days so we were pretty practiced up.

Scoop them up like jellyfish, easy money.

I only used it once in anger (crashed Twootter).

It was planned to be used with our '61's but I was flying a '76 (IMG) at the time.

It worked just dandy.

Don McKenzie, OKie's Chief Pilot, was with me that day.

[Fareastdriver]

what about lifting a big solid basket type thing onto the heli deck. people walk in

I can just imagine how that would fly with people running away from the windy end.

[twisted wrench]

Old Dogs,
I remember that day in Tuk I was there with Quasar, our pilots went out with the 214ST trying to rescue people from the Twooter in a life raft and when the aircraft was close to them and all the down wash the people were waving the helicopter away afraid the life raft would capsize.

Sorry , did not mean to thread drift. Congrats to all involved in the massive rescue in Norway , job well done.

[SASless]

The big basket thing exists.....Columbia Helicopter or Erickson had a version for use in evacuating people from Tall Buildings.

Other sources for such baskets are out there......

https://www.integralrisk.global/equipment/

[SuperF]

The big basket thing exists.....Columbia Helicopter or Erickson had a version for use in evacuating people from Tall Buildings.

Other sources for such baskets are out there......

https://www.integralrisk.global/equipment/


Exactly what i was thinking of. i was going to say a scoop net, as we used to use under the JR, but didnt know if it could be explained properly. 10-15 at a time, taking about 1 minute to load, and way less risk than winching individually.

[minigundiplomat]

Most hoist cables have a weight limit (600lb if I recall). You can fill a basket with people, but can only lift 2-3 at a time anyway due to the weight limit (less if you see some cruise pax)

[skadi]

Most hoist cables have a weight limit (600lb if I recall). You can fill a basket with people, but can only lift 2-3 at a time anyway due to the weight limit (less if you see some cruise pax)

Those baskets were used as external load on the hook, not on the winch.

skadi

[SASless]

Cranes and Hooks could lift baskets that could hold 25-30 people without any problem.....except for a few things like being ready and close enough to deploy to the scene, have a support system for fuel and handling the passengers brought to safety....for a start.

[Bravo73]

Not forgetting how to persuade 25-30 American OAPs to get into one of those baskets in the first place.

[Fareastdriver]

It always looks very nice on paper but underslung loads have a mind of their own.

The first problem is getting people to get into it. With you toes toasting on top of a building there is lots of encouragement but with 150,000 tons or so of steel still above the water maybe not so much.

Once they are in they have to be pulled.off fairly rapidly or the basket will start to spin. The blurb quotes 126 knots, a 332L with six drums of diesel on a 60 ft. strop and internally loaded to 19,500 lbs. will cruise at a max 90 knots at 1,000 ft. Your survivors won't fly as well as full drums so it's going to be slower. Even if it cruises at 60 knots at 5 degrees C the wind chill means that your passengers will be feeling minus 4. How long can they put up with that when they are in nightclothes and a lifejacket?

Over any sort of distance the time saved by packing them into a wire box will be lost because of the transit times compared with winching them in followed a high speed cruise.

An adjacent rescue vehicle, like a ship, will have it's own boats to shuttle with.

OK for it's designed purpose, but no good for cruise liners.

[SASless]

Using this latest incident....the flight time would have been perhaps five minutes and they could have been landed on the shore....and shuttled to a safe location for further processing.

But as I said...and as you have pointed out....there are physical limitations to using such a basket.

Ships have life boats and life rafts for a reason....and when one goes for a cruise....you do take certain risks even unknowingly.

[Thomas coupling]

What's the point if the damn ship is too far away?
You can have the biggest 'basket' in the world.

[Nige321]

Oil needed topping up... (https://www.sdir.no/en/news/news-from-the-nma/press-release-viking-sky/)

Throughout the night, the NMA has worked together with the ship's classification society, Lloyd’s, and the company in order to identify the reason why the Viking Sky suffered power “blackout” at Hustadvika in challenging weather conditions on Saturday 23 March. For the present, our conclusion is that the engine failure was directly caused by low oil pressure.Last night, the Norwegian Maritime Authority (NMA) granted the company a permit to sail on a single voyage to Kristiansund to have necessary repairs made.
Throughout the night, the NMA has worked together with the ship's classification society, Lloyd’s, and the company in order to identify the reason why the Viking Sky suffered power “blackout” at Hustadvika in challenging weather conditions on Saturday 23 March.

For the present, our conclusion is that the engine failure was directly caused by low oil pressure.
The level of lubricating oil in the tanks was within set limits, however relatively low, when the vessel started to cross Hustadvika.
The tanks were provided with level alarms, however these had not been triggered at this time.
The heavy seas in Hustadvika probably caused movements in the tanks so large that the supply to the lubricating oil pumps stopped.
This triggered an alarm indicating a low level of lubrication oil, which in turn shortly thereafter caused an automatic shutdown of the engines.

The NMA has drawn up a general safety notice about ensuring a continuous supply of lubricating oil to engines and other critical systems in poor weather conditions.
This should be done in cooperation with the engine supplier and, moreover, be included in the ship’s risk assessments in the safety management system.

Viking Ocean Cruises has made the following statement: “We welcome the prompt and efficient investigation carried out by the NMA and we fully understand and acknowledge their findings.
We have inspected the levels on all our sister ships and are now revising our procedures to ensure that this issue could not be repeated.
We will continue to work with our partners and the regulatory bodies in supporting them with the ongoing investigations,”Norwegian Maritime Authority is in a continuous dialogue with the company and classification society, and this cooperation has been successful.

We will follow up the ongoing work to rectify damages on vessels.
Furthermore, we will continue the constructive dialogue with the classification society, company and the Accident Investigation Board Norway in order to reveal underlying causes and identify appropriate measures.

[Fareastdriver]

This triggered an alarm indicating a low level of lubrication oil, which in turn shortly thereafter caused an automatic shutdown of the engines.

Probably just as well. The sound of a connecting rod going through the side of a marine engine would have woken a few people up.

[Robbo Jock]

As would the sound of the hull grinding against rocks. Seems a bit drastic to automatically shut down all engines on the basis of what would apparently be an intermittent low lube indication.

[sycamore]

Not possible to transfer oil between tanks-just like fuel...?

[dogsridewith]

Why were the lube oil tanks' low limits and level alarm levels set too low? Or otherwise "...had not been triggered...?"

[MPHR]

The big basket thing exists.....Columbia Helicopter or Erickson had a version for use in evacuating people from Tall Buildings.

Other sources for such baskets are out there......

Multi Person Helicopter Rescue capability does already exist; as linked by SASless.

The concept is based around moving up to 15 people per lift cycle from a specifically designed rescue basket that is flown from the cargo hook, not the winch. Crucially, it is not designed to replace winch based rescue, rather, it is designed to complement it in situations such as the MV Viking Sky emergency, where the sheer number of people require rescue.

Fareastdriver made the following points:

It always looks very nice on paper but underslung loads have a mind of their own.

The first problem is getting people to get into it. With you toes toasting on top of a building there is lots of encouragement but with 150,000 tons or so of steel still above the water maybe not so much.

Once they are in they have to be pulled.off fairly rapidly or the basket will start to spin. The blurb quotes 126 knots, a 332L with six drums of diesel on a 60 ft. strop and internally loaded to 19,500 lbs. will cruise at a max 90 knots at 1,000 ft. Your survivors won't fly as well as full drums so it's going to be slower. Even if it cruises at 60 knots at 5 degrees C the wind chill means that your passengers will be feeling minus 4. How long can they put up with that when they are in nightclothes and a lifejacket?

Over any sort of distance the time saved by packing them into a wire box will be lost because of the transit times compared with winching them in followed a high speed cruise.

An adjacent rescue vehicle, like a ship, will have it's own boats to shuttle with.

OK for it's designed purpose, but no good for cruise liners.

I'll address each point in turn:

"The first problem is getting people to get into it". I put it to you that if the ship is on fire, or is sinking, or is drifting towards rocks etc, then the motivation to get into a rescue device might be heightened somewhat? In this instance, the captain was concerned enough for the ships safety and integrity to order an evacuation. It was obviously in enough danger (or perceived danger) to warrant the call.

"Once they are in they have to be pulled.off fairly rapidly or the basket will start to spin" No! We have tested the Multi Person Helicopter Rescue baskets at up to 120kts with an asymmetric weighted load and they do not spin. As can be seen on the video here on our website (I'm too new and I'm not allowed to post a link!!)

"Over any sort of distance the time saved by packing them into a wire box will be lost because of the transit times compared with winching them in followed a high speed cruise." It's important to remember that the capability is designed to take high number of people from the point of danger to a place of "relative safety" That could be a nearby ship, or in the Norwegian example to land, which was only a few hundred meters away. A complete lift cycle for up to 15 people can be completed - including the drop off a few hundred meters from the scene is around 10 minutes. That around 75 people per hour, per aircraft.

"OK for it's designed purpose, but no good for cruise liners" I disagree! This is precisely the type of emergency that Multi Person Helicopter Rescue was designed to address.

I wrote an article on this on LinkedIn that covers most of these points and more. I'll post a link as soon as I"m allowed!!

[SASless]

The Achilles heel to this method of rescue is simply logistics.

Ability to put the basket(s) on scene.... and then being able to perform the lifts.

Just how do you achieve that is the problem....Cruise Ships cover a lot of ground during their operations and evacuations from some distance from shore become very difficult to carry out.

This is one of those "Solutions looking for Problem" situations I am thinking.

Baskets for multi-person evacuations from tall buildings in a large urban area.....that makes sense.

Lifts during large area floods.....again I can see the use for a basket.

Cruise ships well away from shore....not so much.

[MPHR]

The Achilles heel to this method of rescue is simply logistics.

Ability to put the basket(s) on scene.... and then being able to perform the lifts.

Just how do you achieve that is the problem....Cruise Ships cover a lot of ground during their operations and evacuations from some distance from shore become very difficult to carry out.

This is one of those "Solutions looking for Problem" situations I am thinking.

Baskets for multi-person evacuations from tall buildings in a large urban area.....that makes sense.

Lifts during large area floods.....again I can see the use for a basket.

Cruise ships well away from shore....not so much.

You've kind of answered your own question SASless!

No single rescue capability is ideal for every rescue scenario and I made the point earlier that Multi Person Helicopter Rescue is designed to compliment existing capability rather than replace it. However, you state that MPHR is not suitable for emergencies on cruise ships well away from shore, but you've made that point on a thread that's discussing an emergency that happened about 1km from the shore. So of course we can find scenarios where it might not work, but there are plenty where it can - and does.

Interestingly, I attended some meetings and briefings with the SARINOR (Search And Rescue In The High North) project time a year or so back - a Norwegian led study that is modelling and planning for just the scenario that you describe. There is a huge increase in large cruise ships (much larger than the MV Viking Sky) that are sailing right up to the polar ice cap - well above 80º North - and the regional rescue agencies are very worried that an MV Viking Sky type emergency could occur in those areas. In this scenario, we discussed how a temporary rescue camp would be set up on the ice cap itself; where logistics (aircraft fuel!), medical and life support services would be set up whilst the longer term rescue plan (anything from 12 - 72 hour or more) could be activated. In this scenario, Multi Person Helicopter Rescue baskets formed an integral part of that particular planing and modelling.

Remember that cruise ships typically sail quite close to the coasts for much of their voyage, as they hop from port to port. But of course, they also sail across oceans and even when 'hopping' they can be several hundred miles from shore and in those circumstances, the capability (like everything else) has its limitations. MPHR is only really limited though, by the range of the helicopters and their ability to reach the emergency location.

You're also right to point out that MPHR is also very useful for high rise building fires - as demonstrated in the recent Dhaka tower fire. Whilst MPHR was not utilised in that rescue, people were rescued by helicopter from the building's flat roof. Could more have been saved if MPHR baskets were available? I don't know, but the concept of rescue from the top of a building, where the lower floors are on fire and stairways are blocked, is proven.

[BluSdUp]

Ship owner Torstein Hagen has made it clear that he appreciates all involved in the rescue of his ship.
1 million Nkr Ca 105 000Euro has been given to:
The local town and sportsclub of Hustavika
Norsk Folke hjelp ( Sortoff redcross)
Norsk Luftambulanse that used the Airbus Helikopter 145 medevac to get the wounded to hospital.
The RNoAF 330 Seaking chaps was also mentioned and so was CHC that came in from the Riggs in the North sea.

It shall also be mentioned that the ship did not have a Emergency Tow System compulsory for a long time on oiltankers ( Exxon Valdes or Braer)
This system operates independent of main engine pwr and makes it possible to attach a heavy towline in any condition.
Again the Rotorheads in Norway made me proud.
Oh, and the basket, is just that: A basket Case!
I vote for full oil and fuel tanks ,Thanks!
Stay Safe
Cpt B