Argentine civilian helicopter ops during Falklands War

[chopper2004]

I have a book detailing the Argentine airpower during the Falklands War ( Chopper's three uncles from his fathers side served in the RN) , it makes interesting reading. Especially the amount of civilian operators both fixed wing and rotary wing that were 'press ganged' , impressed upon to support on the mainland

There was even two non Argentinian personnel (one a UK helicopter engineer albeit working in Argnetina on his South African passport and a Dutch helicopter pilot involved).

Across the board be it the air force, navy or army aviation had support in one form or the other from their civilian counterparts. Even Dutch operator Schreiner supported with SA365C Dauphins, Helicopteros Marinos with their S-61N, S-58T, Various local government regions provided mix of Bell 206, Bell 222 (sorry have shades of Airwolf Season 1 - Fight Like A Dove with Stringfellow Hawke fighting former Nazi now arms dealer based in Argentina boasting of Exocets use in the Falklands) , Fairchild Hiller FH1100, and MBB BO105, Bell 212, Hughes 500C,

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One would have thought Schreiner at the top would have refused their Argentinian subsidary to be part of the Junta's military effort or that the Junta would trust a foreign operator.

Please can anyone shed light on this?

Cheers

[megan]

I've dropped Marcantilan, who has written books on the conflict and is a prolific poster, a note directing him to this thread. If he can't give an answer no body can.

[Marcantilan]

Hello chopper2004 and megan and sorry for showing so late.

In fact, I have co-written an essay on the Army Aviation Reserve (this helicopters...) during the 1982 conflict, which I understand will be published shortly.

This was really a mixed effort: Civilian helicopters, with Army marking; Civilian pilots and aircrew with Argentine Air Force ranks, flying surveillance missions over the sea!

The Dauphin were, late in the war, handed to the Navy. One of the pilots of Schreiner left the country after that and told the British some "secrets"(I've the debrief sent to British Intelligence somewhere...)

How can I help in this topic?

Best regards!
Mariano

[helihub]

The Dauphin were, late in the war, handed to the Navy

"handed to the Navy" - presumably that means "to operate" not "as a sort of gift", given both returned to Dutch registrations at least by 1986

[500 Fan]

It is interesting that they should employ civilian light helicopters when the Argentine Air Force had a considerable fleet of Hughes 500s and probably other light helicopters too.

500 Fan.

[SimonK]

Very interesting book and one I’ve literally just finished reading myself - as an aside fascinating reading in there about the paramilitary missions flown by the ‘Fenix’ squadron of Learjets, some flown by former RAF Lancaster pilots! When you include the bombing missions flown by Hercules you realise they were brave chaps indeed and trying absolutely everything they could.

The book is about as impartial an account from the other side that you could have hoped for, but leaves certain myths unchallenged - such as the Invincible ‘attack’. That’s a shame as what the Argentine pilots did and achieved, rotary, military, civilian all was outstanding and extremely brave; they need no false myths recounting.

[Marcantilan]

"handed to the Navy" - presumably that means "to operate" not "as a sort of gift", given both returned to Dutch registrations at least by 1986

Exactly. Both were operating under Army control and started operating under the Navy (alongside the Alouette III of Primera Escuadrilla Aeronaval de Helicópteros - First Naval Helicopter Squadron) on Tierra del Fuego.

None of those helos were lost and returned after the war to their private (or public) owners.

Last Sunday, I was driving here in Buenos Aires and I pointed to my kids to an old Bell 205 and a MBB Bo-105, still painted in the orange-brown colours from the time of the war. It looks like the owner (the local NHS in this case) liked the war paint of those birds!

Best regards,

[Marcantilan]

It is interesting that they should employ civilian light helicopters when the Argentine Air Force had a considerable fleet of Hughes 500s and probably other light helicopters too.

500 Fan.

The idea was to supplement the Army helicopters. The Hughes (RACA-Hughes) were also deployed in the AAF bases.

When the essay was published (next week?) I will post all the helicopters employed and some very interesting pictures.

Those ad-hoc fleet was the first Army Aviation Reserve force. And because of that, I am really into it!

[chopper2004]

Hello chopper2004 and megan and sorry for showing so late.

In fact, I have co-written an essay on the Army Aviation Reserve (this helicopters...) during the 1982 conflict, which I understand will be published shortly.

This was really a mixed effort: Civilian helicopters, with Army marking; Civilian pilots and aircrew with Argentine Air Force ranks, flying surveillance missions over the sea!

The Dauphin were, late in the war, handed to the Navy. One of the pilots of Schreiner left the country after that and told the British some "secrets"(I've the debrief sent to British Intelligence somewhere...)

How can I help in this topic?

Best regards!
Mariano

Hi Marianao,

Thanks for responding any images, or additional info to what I’ve gleamed from the book be appreciated please.

Schreiner Pilot ...was he dual nationality as well..

cheers

[chopper2004]

Very interesting book and one I’ve literally just finished reading myself - as an aside fascinating reading in there about the paramilitary missions flown by the ‘Fenix’ squadron of Learjets, some flown by former RAF Lancaster pilots! When you include the bombing missions flown by Hercules you realise they were brave chaps indeed and trying absolutely everything they could.

The book is about as impartial an account from the other side that you could have hoped for, but leaves certain myths unchallenged - such as the Invincible ‘attack’. That’s a shame as what the Argentine pilots did and achieved, rotary, military, civilian all was outstanding and extremely brave; they need no false myths recounting.

And the umm questionable pay safety lol when all troops were sat on floor of Aerolineas Argentina 737L as opposed to seats...

cheers

[Same again]

And the umm questionable pay safety lol when all troops were sat on floor of Aerolineas Argentina 737L as opposed to seats...

I take it you never served in the military?

[chopper2004]

I take it you never served in the military?

Hi I did a bit of soldiering in reserves for few years.

Anyhow in a cargo platform such as a C-130 it be normal but 737 airliner with seats removed no way of securing thr troops on the floor..


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[[email protected]]

You can still visit some relics of the Argentine Air Force if you spend a bit of time in the Falklands and know where to go:) Obviously they all need substantial TLC.

[Same again]

Anyhow in a cargo platform such as a C-130 it be normal but 737 airliner with seats removed no way of securing thr troops on the floor..

They look pretty secure to me - couldn't get many more in. You may have forgotten or are too young to remember but Argentina was involved in a war at the time.

[212man]

They look pretty secure to me - couldn't get many more in. You may have forgotten or are too young to remember but Argentina was involved in a war at the time.
I’m not going to comment on his remarks about seating, but as he is the OP, and his opening remarks are about the book he’s reading about Argentine air assets during the war, I guess he does know that.

[ericferret]

Hello chopper2004 and megan and sorry for showing so late.

In fact, I have co-written an essay on the Army Aviation Reserve (this helicopters...) during the 1982 conflict, which I understand will be published shortly.

This was really a mixed effort: Civilian helicopters, with Army marking; Civilian pilots and aircrew with Argentine Air Force ranks, flying surveillance missions over the sea!

The Dauphin were, late in the war, handed to the Navy. One of the pilots of Schreiner left the country after that and told the British some "secrets"(I've the debrief sent to British Intelligence somewhere...)

How can I help in this topic?

Best regards!
Mariano


Wonder if that was the same guy I worked with in Rotterdam late 90's for Schreiner.
We had a computer game in the crew room and my high score handle was "The Falklands are British".
He spent ages trying to shift that. Really nice guy.

[Marcantilan]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/529x413/image_a6e4bae56112e20fa46f565af2c2b223fe383771.png
Argentine Army Aviation Reserve deployment. South Atlantic War 1982